The ridiculous price of registering documents in Rio for marriage????

I'm sorry, but could you first of all explain exactly what CRED is and what in the world it has to do with either the marriage process or permanency in Brazil? I have been here in the country for 13 years and worked with the absurd bureaucracy all that time and I have never heard of CRED.

All of the documents one needs for marriage or for the permanency process can be done by yourself and then have "Reconhecimento da Firma" or "autenticação" at any Cartório. If you're paying extra, then it stands to reason you're paying for outside help. What they charge is what they charge, you can either pay the fees or do it yourself.

Cheers,
James            Expat-blog Experts Team

Oh and just so you know, the fees at Cartórios are really high anyway. My buddy was just here in Macaé - RJ to Register and apply for his Cédula de Identidade Estrangeir after having been granted permanency.

The fee just for the "cópias autenticadas" of his passport (all pages, even blank ones) was R$320. Even though they will copy the passport open and two pages appear on one sheet of copy paper, they will charge for each single page of the passport and stamp the copy of each one. They don't charge based on the number of pages of copy paper, but for the number of documents (or pages thereof) appear and must be individually stamped.

CRED is the place where I have to get my documents registered in order to be used here in Brazil... In other words its the cartorio  de registros de titulos e documentos. This isn't just to get them "authenticated" (which costs R$5 per document) it is to be able to use my document and its translation offically in brazil.

Are your documents already translated? You don't need to "REGISTER" documents such as your Birth Certificate, Single Certificate or Certified Criminal Record Check (if required). They ONLY need to be "legalized" by the Consulado-Geral do Brasil in the country where they are issued and they must be authenticated by either the Ministry of Foreign Affairs (or equivalent) in your home country or your Embassy/Consulate here in Brazil.

At the very most you only need to make Certified Copies of some of your documents for the Federal Police and have your signature notarized on others. Seems like somebody at the CRED saw you coming and thinks you're an easy mark...... they're trying to milk you for as much money as they can get out of you.

Read the topic posting with a sticky at the top of the first Brazil Forum page:

https://www.expat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=280525https://www.expat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=403321

edited: due to wrong links  05 DEC 2014  14:58h


You only need to do what is shown in these postings and if somebody (other than the Federal Police) says they want something else, tell them to take a hike.

Cheers,
James       Expat-blog Experts Team

Hi,

I was already aware of this. However...
I live in Brazil and frankly getting my documents stamped in the country where they were issued (australia) is a little far fetched. The only consulate in Brazil is in Sao Paulo /Brasilia and I live in Rio. of course if it comes to it I will not pay R$450 per document (instead R$200 at the consulate) and go to Sao Paulo, What I was hoping for was for someones advice in regards to experience with getting their documents registered or legalised, and whether or not this price was accurate for others.

Thank you for your time.
Please anyone else with experience in this specific situation feel free to post your comments!

And is CRED going to give you a guarantee that these documents that you pay so dearly to have "REGISTERED" are going to be accepted. If not think twice, because the LEGISLATION is quite clear.... the documents MUST be legalized by the Consulado-Geral do Brasil in the country of issue (no exceptions) and must also be authenticated by the MoEF or equivalent in Australia or the Australian Embassy/Consulate in Brazil (again no exceptions). "Far fetched" as it may seem to you, that's the law here in Brazil.

When you submit the paperwork to the Federal Police they're not going to care one little bit about what CRED told you, they follow the LAW to the letter. Cred is a Cartório, they do not make law.

If you want to take their advice, waste your money only to find that the Federal Police are going to have you do it the way the law prescribes then more power to you. You will find out in the end that my thirteen year of experience in dealing with marriage issues, and visa issues has taught me much more than some pencil pusher in the Cartório knows. You are going to end up paying what the CRED wants, and then pay it all over again to do it the way the Federal Police want and you can take that information "TO THE BANK". Trust me!

Please you are misunderstanding me. This is not for the federal police this is to get MARRIED. Requirements from the cartorio! Please let other people who have experience in this SPECIFIC issue respond THANK YOU!

I went through the process recently. I didn't need to use "CRED". Never heard of anybody needing to use "CRED". In fact, never heard of "CRED".

Of course it's far fetched to get your birth certificate authenticated at the Brazilian consulate in your home country. I'm surprised after living here for 2 years that you haven't realized that most things in Brazil are difficult and far fetched.

James' advice has proven to be accurate. You can always try to get married without your birth certificate being authenticated and hope that they miss it or don't care...but this would put you in the lucky category

Oh and just in case it might interest you to know, I also live in Brazil for 13 years now. In my position with Expat-blog I have assisted hundreds of our members through the marriage and permanency process in this country, dealt directly with Cartórios and with the Federal Police in doing so, and during the course of all that have managed to resolve many problems for those members that even the most experienced Immigrations Lawyers in this country have been unable to.

Any of our other members who bother to post here, are only going to confirm exactly what I've told you already. I trust that you're not going to tear a strip off them too, just because what they tell you doesn't coincide exactly with what you WANT to hear.

Just my two centavos worth!

Cheers,
James       Expat-blog Experts Team

The law also clearly defines exactly what documents are for the MARRIAGE process. Cartórios, as much as they may try, can't just make up their own rules.

The law sets out exactly what those requirements are. YOU DO NOT NEED TO REGISTER DOCUMENTS with CRED or anybody else. Why don't you just go to another Cartório de Registro de Pessoas Naturais and seek permission to marry there, you'll find they are likely to treat you much differently and to demand less documents and less of your hard earned money.

"ESTRANGEIROS

Solteiros
- Documento de Identidade original com foto (RNE ou protocolo, Passaporte);
- Certidão de Nascimento original;
- Atestado Consular (constando estado civil e o último endereço);
- Data, local de nascimento e endereço de residência dos pais (se falecido, apenas informar a data e local de falecimento, não precisando trazer nenhum documento para comprovação).

OBS: Para estrangeiros, é necessário a consularização dos documentos acima citados, pelo Consulado Brasileiro, para a verificação de procedência, exceto para os documentos oriundos da França.

Os documentos em língua estrangeira, deverão ser traduzidos por Tradutor Público Juramentado e a tradução deverá ser registrada no Cartório de Títulos e Documentos.<<<<<< (AKA CRED in Rio de Janeiro)

Caso o estrangeiro não fale a língua portuguesa, o mesmo deverá estar acompanhado de um Tradutor Público Juramentado, com Registro na Junta Comercial, portando o original da Carteira de Registro no respectivo órgão.
"



http://www.19cartorio.com.br/casamento.asp

Where did you get your information that CRED is the place to go?

I remember the cartorio saying something about registering my translated documents, but it's something that they took care of themselves (and was 40 real for everything)

Again, your information comes from the CARTORIO. They do not make the laws and can ask for whatever they want, but have absolutely no legal right to do so......

Here is what the federal law, which the cartórios are bound by, says:

1.     Original of your Birth Certificate (Long Form), which must have been issued within the previous 180 days or it will not be considered valid in Brazil. The long form is the registration of your birth which shows the full names of both of your parents, their nationality, etc. A wallet sized Birth Certificate IS NOT ACCEPTABLE, since it doesn't show your parents' names. The original Birth Certificate must be LEGALIZED BY THE CONSULADO-GERAL DO BRASIL in the country where it is issued AND THEN IT MUST ALSO BE AUTHENTICATED BY THE ISSUING COUNTRY'S CONSULATE IN BRAZIL or DEPT. OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS if done in the issuing nation. This is ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY so don't omit this step or you won't be able to marry in Brazil. That must be done within the 180 day period that the document is considered valid. Once "legalized" by the Consulate then it will continue to be valid until used in Brazil. When you arrive in Brazil the Birth Certificate must be translated into Portuguese by a notarized translator (Tradutor Juramentada). The origninal of the Birth Certificate and translation must be submitted together to the Cartório at the time you apply for permission to marry. Get two Certified copies made of the Birth Certificate because you may be asked for one in the Permanent Visa process

2.     A clear and legible Certified copy of your passport; identification page and visa page(s) - Note: Take the original passport to the Cartório, they will make the certified copies there. Get two Certified copies made since you need one for Permanent Visa process

3.     A clear and legible Certified copy of your Entry Card - Note: again the Cartório will make this copy for you so take the original.

4.     If you are single and never married before you need a Declaration from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs (in your home country) that you are single. This must be "legalized" by the Consulado-Geral (in country of issue) and be translated into Portuguese here in Brazil.

If you are divorced then you will need to produce either your Divorce Decree (final/absolute) in its entirety or a Divorce Certificate which is issued by the Court that granted the divorce. If you submit the Divorce Certificate it must also have been issued within the previous 180 days to be valid, so you can't use one you may already have, you have to obtain a new one from the Court. Whichever of these documents you intend to submit must also be "legalized" by the Consulado-Geral do Brasil (in country of issue) and translated into Portuguese in Brazil. It will also need to be authenticated by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs (in the country of issue) or their Consulate/Embassy in Brazil.

Your prospective spouse must submit the following:

1.     Original identity document (Registro Geral)

2.     Original Social Security Card (CPF - Cadastro de Pessoas Fisicas)

3.     Original Birth Certificate

4.     Proof of address (usually a telephone / electric / water bill will suffice)

5.     Proof of date and location of birth of his/her parents (usually contained on your spouse's Birth Certificate)

There is absolutely no mention in the law regarding havng documents REGISTERED and certainly no mention whatsoever of CRED.

Rather than arguing with what everyone else here is saying, disputing that federal law takes precidence over state law..... please do us all a great favor. Do exactly what CRED wants you to do, pay the outlandish fees they want and be done with it......... you don't need (or seem to even want) our advice.

Cheers,
James          Expat-blog Experts Team

MSAntunes,

I understand your confusion, brazilian bureaucracy is obnoxious.  I think what you meant is CERD and not CRED...

http://www.cerd-rj.com.br/

Please be patient with James, he is very helpful to members on this forum and will go out of his way to try to help.

From my experience, usually they ask for the papers to be authenticated at the Consulate of Brazil in your country, so in Australia. Sounds incredible that they ask people to go through such trouble, but they just don't care.

I have never heard of anyone who found a way to do it from here (except sending papers to family, for them to get the stamps at the consulate there and send them back to Brazil). Brazilian consulates usually never even accept to do all of this by post, they request someone to go there in person, but doesn't need to be the person who's name is on the papers.

You should do your research again on that CERD, on the webpage I sent you they have a simulator of costs. I think someone tried to take the most money they could out of you - yes, it happens, even in government places.

Good luck

msantunes13

First, I want to also agree that having your Birth Certificate stamped in your country of origin is "far fetched," but as others have already mentioned here, welcome to the far-fetched bureaucratic world of Brazil...! And even MORE absurd is that you cannot even use your original Birth Certificate but that it has to be RE-issued by your country of origin before getting stamped in a Brazil consulate there! I was born in CUBA, so my head SPINS when I think of how complicated THAT process will be. But, as others have also already mentioned here, it really IS quite surprising and odd that, if you have already lived in Brazil for 2 years, as you claim, that fact that the complexity and absurdity of most any process whatsoever there is common-place is FOREIGN to you!

Regarding getting someone to post comments regarding your plight, YOU COULD NOT BE IN BETTER HANDS THAN JAMES.  And the fact that HE is responding does NOT deter OTHERS from responding to your questions. In other words, he nor anyone has to "let" others respond to your postings. Moreover, it seems to me, and it is quite the truth, that of everyone and anyone who could have responded to your post, James is the most knowledgable and experienced. He also goes the extra mile, adding the personal touch whenever he can, and IF YOU LET HIM he can not only be a FOUNTAIN of beneficial and priceless information, but can also become a true friend, as he has for MANY of us here on this Blog. So it seems to me that it is you, and not he, who is "misunderstanding."

LET him help you, and he WILL.

Actually, the Consulado-Geral do Brasil DOES accept documents for legalization by mail and by courier. I would recommend using Express Mail Service since it can be tracked. You will need to pay the required fee for legalization, and include a self addressed envelope. You should also find out what the cost of Express Mail Service to Brazil from the other country will be and include that amount in your payment to the Consulado-Geral do Brasil.

I sent all of my documents to the Consulado-Geral do Canada, by mail in exactly the same way as I described. They were returned to me here in Brazil legalized, without any problems at all.

In the alternative you can mail them to a family member back home and they can submit them personally to the Consulado for legalization.

Since I came to brazil I was following step by step of what james was advising me , What I needed to get married is a certificat legilazed by the court of my country, the ministre of foreing exchange and the brazilian ambassady in my country , then when I got them I translated them here in brazil and took them to a place which is not cartorio first to be checked and legalized it cost me like 90rs for this legalization and like 200rs for the cartorio and 180rs for the translation , and then I took it to cartorio with the certificat of the birth of her and then they gave us a date to marry thats it !!

Dear Msantunes13, I think what James suggested were quite right.
Firstly, as according to my personal experience, things should not be so complicated - I got married 3 years ago here in Brazil. The documents I presented were:
1. RNE
2. CPF
3. certidão de nascimento 
4. Comprovante de endereço.
I had no difficulties because the only document from my home country was the birth certificate, and during the process of RNE, I already got it authenticated by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of China, and translated here in Brazil-- "tradução juramentado", the only thing I did for marriage preparation was to get authenticated copies of the documents mentioned above at Catório.
Secondly, sorry I don't understand why you don't have the "tradução juramentado" version of your birth certificate since you got all brazilian equivilent of documents, but anyway, the only way to valid any certificate to be used in a foreign country should be exactly as James suggested.
Or get  it authenticated by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of your home country(or equivalent) in your home country or your Embassy/Consulate In the destination country.
This is an international rule, applicable for any country.
Anyway, I wish you good luck and solve it soon.

msantunes13
I got in this discussion late, but would like to contribute.
Others have said what I'd like to reinforce. James is the best asset this blog and country
has on your issue. Don't try re-invent the wheel. He's done it already for all of you (my case is different,
as I was married in Rio 37 years ago to a Briton, when things were much easier than now). James knows more about Brazil than all the federal employees and cartorios staff combined. Just trust him.
I remember all my husband needed to get married here then, was an original of his birth certificate that was authenticated and sent to him by mail apart from his passport. Best of luck. Cheers!

Hello msantunes13,

I hope that the postings of the other members here have convinced you that I have some considerable experience with the bureaucratic processes of marriage and permanency gained over the past 13 years.

Many states (including both Rio and São Paulo) state in the information on the Cartório's website that you must "register" your Birth Certificate in Brazil. That does NOT mean that this is required or even legal. It gives them the chance to charge the unwary and that's all. You must understand that first of all Cartórios in Brazil are privately owned "businesses" they are not government run registries. Owning a Cartório is like having a license to print money, because you can milk every last centavo out of the uninformed, and OHHHHHHH how the do just that.

I have guided literally hundreds of our members through the marriage process here in Brazil, and they have done exactly as I have advised. They have ALL managed to get married in every single one of the states and Distrito Federal, without such registration. I got married here without it, never even heard of it until now. So if it really were REQUIRED, none of us would be married now.

Regarding marriage there are, to my knowledge, only TWO instances when any document must be registered in Brazil. 1. If you marry a Brazilian citizen while they are abroad, the foreign marriage must be registered with the Consulado-Geral do Brasil in that country AND ALSO once arriving in Brazil it must then be registered at the 1º Oficio of the Cartório de Registro Civil in Brasília or in the city where you will reside (you get to choose which). 2.  In the case of a foreigner who is divorced, if the country does not have a "Certificate of Divorce" and thus you need to use the Divorce Decree itself, then it must pass through a process with the Superior Court in Brasília called "Homologação da Sentença de Divorcio Estrangeiro" and even that really is not registered in the Cartório.

The reason you DON'T have to "register" your Birth Certificate or any other document at CRED is because you have had them LEGALIZED by the Consulado-Geral do Brasil, THIS is what gives them legal force in this country.

Regarding "far-fetched", well what can I say? It's Brazil, absolutely everything here is "far-fetched" their rules don't have to make sense, so they don't create rules that make sense. The FIRST RULE of Brazil often appears to be -   There are no rules, we just make 'em up as we go!

Cheers,
James       Expat-blog Experts Team

Hi all,
I'm running into the same problem as msantunes. I had all my documents (birth certificate, cancellation of earlier registered partnership, declarations of no impediment of the consulates in the countries I have lived in,) legalised by the Brazilian consulates in the respective countries.

While trying to start the process, I have also been directed to CERD in RJ Centro by my local Cartorio, where they charge a total of nearly rS 2,400 for the certification of both the original and official translated documents. I have started the discussion about  1) the proposed fees not referring to civil registration but to commercial documents, and 2) the lack of necessity of authenticating the original documents as they have already been approved by the Consulates. No luck.

I have also gone to several Cartórios who all require me to go to CERD. I have asked them to show me the entries in any legal article, which is refused.

My question: what is the most effective way to discuss this issue with the Cartorios or with CERD? If the fees were small, I wouldn't have made a fuss about it, but r$ 466 per document seems a bit outrageous for just a stamp.

I've landed in Brazil 1 week ago and I'm still not used to unclear processes and the manipulation of these!

Many thanks,

Peter

Hi Peter,

Unfortunately here in Brazil Cartórios are a world all unto themselves and the judges who own them (and make no mistake about it, they are businesses, not public services) make their own rules many of which don't even conform to the law of the land and some even violate the Federal Constitution.But, as they say you can't fight City Hall. It is what it is.

The only way out of the absurd situation that exists in Rio de Janeiro, that does not exist elsewhere in the country (to my knowledge) is to get married in another state where the requirements are less rigid. Here in Rio they just want to bleed you for every single centavo that they possibly can. If you read the legislation regarding Tradutor Publico e Interprete Comercial - TPIC (Tradutor Juramentado), the mere act of official translation gives documents legal force in this country, yet Rio requires them to be registered, which is not only unnecessary according to law, but purely a rip-off.

You'll never get around that in Rio unfortunately, so resign yourself either to pay the fees, whatever they are - or go out of state to get married where you're not going to be taken for an easy mark just because you're a foreigner.

Cheers,
James         Expat-blog Experts Team

Thanks for your reply James,

I managed to get two documents (plus translations) off the list, so that's a saving of r$932. Guess that's all I'll manage.

Silently awaiting the next hurdle

Best,

Peter