Organic food/vegatables

A lot of the food in VietNam is irradiated.

Foods imported into the States has to be irradiated so manufacturers/processors find it's easier just to nuke the lot!

Since weather travels eastwards, the brick-a-brack from Japan has landed in the States, does the pollution originating in Japan mean it has circled the world?

Yes you are absolutely correct about irradiating the food. When I lived in America I was a big fan of almond milk so I could use it to help boost my magnesium levels. Americans are highly deficient in this mineral and it is very important. Later I found out the California supplier radiated the almond milk. I switched to making it at home in America

Yes the radiation has circled the globe through the air currents. Not exactly certain with the ocean currents but I do know it has hit from Alaska down to South America.  Many things are now in die off mode.  I stay clear if all seafood.  But thing is , when it rains it's getting on the plants and into the soil. 

This poisoning effects us at the DNA / genetic level. Iodine supplements can be effective but this planet is on it's last breath   Many scientists and physicists have stated that we are well past the point if no return. Many Japanese are being relocated to other countries  the nuclear meltdown can not be stopped.

I am lucky to live near Kay's vegan bistro in Cay Diep lane, jsut off Nguyen Dinh Chieu st. She regualrly gets her veggies freh form Da Lat & has some organic fruit & veg too. very fresh, good quality food. Don't expect it to be fast though - all is prepared fresh after ordering.

Kerrypatt wrote:

I am lucky to live near Kay's vegan bistro in Cay Diep lane, jsut off Nguyen Dinh Chieu st. She regualrly gets her veggies freh form Da Lat & has some organic fruit & veg too. very fresh, good quality food.

She thinks it is organic, maybe, but given the market for genuine, certified organic foodstuffs the demand is very small.

Some religions eat 'organic' or 'vegetarian' supplies but in actuality they don't / can't prove it. Besides a lot of their sauces have animal products in them - even Nuoc Mam Cham.

I THINK YOU SHOULD GO THERE & talk to the wner, Kim and ask her for details yourself before posting sarcastic comments.... she is very passionate about food quality & the benefits of eating as medicine.

Kerrypatt wrote:

I THINK YOU SHOULD GO THERE & talk to the wner (sic), Kim and ask her for details yourself before posting sarcastic comments.... she is very passionate about food quality & the benefits of eating as medicine.

Not 'sarcastic', fact, even the VNese newspapers have tracked how these 'organic' and 'vegetarian' materialise on store shelves.

Several stores were traced to sourcing at the local wholesale markets, granted they sorted out the good looking ones, but the sources were no different from other stores.

Go read Do you know where your food comes from?.

Many vegetables, such as morning glory, are grown on rafts floating in sewage polluted rivers.

Woman collecting vegetables grown in polluted river

And what Vietnamese standards given 'organic' and 'vegetarian' foods?

Jaitch, in re: "Besides a lot of their sauces have animal products in them - even Nuoc Mam Cham."

Would that be Nuoc Mam Chay?

As with most things in Viet Nam you really can't be sure what your getting and where it was grown. The government as usual turns a blind eye to everything and the police and officials get richer while its citizens are dying.

I also blindly believed that Da Lat vegetables are fresh and free from pesticides until I visit and spend many days 
You should go to the farms and see with your own eyes! Of course farmers need to 'survive'! Organic farming is very rare view in Da Lat now. When you grow some vegetables in your garden, you can say it's organic    Hearsay is no evidence!

colinoscapee wrote:

As with most things in Viet Nam you really can't be sure what your getting and where it was grown. The government as usual turns a blind eye to everything and the police and officials get richer while its citizens are dying.

The government, IMO, is at least trying to look after the country to world standards including health and food. Remember, dirty/diseased food costs the country GNP - look at the SARS costs in money and life.

As we all know, or have experienced, it is the enforcement where the plans fall down. Perhaps if the government paid civil servants, etc., a living wage we could expect less corruption.

As far as food in HCM is concerned, the Health Department is on our (the consumers) side. You, Colinoscapee, can visit the farms where your food is grown, people on the larger cities have to trust merchants and inspectors.

If HCM inspectors were/are so corrupt, why do they test street food and, where indicated, close vendors down? Why do infringing restaurants get 'red cards' and their very own Cong An guard to make sure they stay closed? Why were many containers of 'road kill' meat impounded on the docks for many months until they were carted off, by sea, for disposal? Why are the soy + dodgy chemicals 'coffee' factories closed down (read Fake coffee factories raided? Why are the HCM food inspectors out overnight checking incoming trucks on the highways and local wholesale distribution markets? Why are the recycled cooking oil outfits closed?

I tell things how I see them (ask Priscilla) and having crawled around the food distribution channels for a few years, I can tell you HCM is looking good. Ha Noi, NO!

The Health Department uses VNese food standards when checking food. If there are no standards, as for organic or vegetarian foodstuffs, they will not get checked.

The organic or vegetarian aficionados are living in cloud cuckoo land - no standards mean no inspectors to inspect for that.

There are a couple of forum members who live in Hue. I invite them to go An Cuu Ward. There is a small river that has flood control gates on it. Drive from the intersection of LE LOI @ PHAN TRU CHINH where, if you look at the river banks, you will see vegetables growing all fed by the sewage laden water. They are tomorrow's market vegetables.

This is common for all parts of VietNam - even on the tributaries of the Saigon River.

The words of Colinoscapee "As with most things in Viet Nam you really can't be sure what your getting and where it was grown" are so true.

charmavietnam wrote:

I also blindly believed that Da Lat vegetables are fresh and free from pesticides until I visit and spend many days
You should go to the farms and see with your own eyes! Of course farmers need to 'survive'. Organic farming is very rare view in Da Lat now. When you grow some vegetables in your garden, you can say it's organic.

Hearsay is no evidence!

I hope our jazz singing Australian bothers to read this, she might begin to understand the challenges she faces in maintaining her lifestyle here in VN.

Anyone who admits they were wrong is a person you can usually trust. Feet on the ground ... in Da Lat.

Yes, I'm reading it all.... ok, so what about places like Annam gourmet market & veggies which import certified organic food from overseas? ( & then keep it int eh cold room to expand shelf life...), obviously it won't be as fresh as we'd all really like but at least it's certified.... thought?

Kerrypatt wrote:

Yes, I'm reading it all.... ok, so what about places like Annam gourmet market & veggies which import certified organic food from overseas? ( & then keep it int eh cold room to expand shelf life...), obviously it won't be as fresh as we'd all really like but at least it's certified.... thought?

That's one place that may sell certified food but it's not a very common thing. Have a read of this article and note that the woman states there is no agency for certifying organic produce in Viet Nam.

http://tuoitrenews.vn/business/22216/vi … s-business

One of her hurdles is that so far no Vietnamese agencies now provide organic certification to local farmers, while it's quite costly and time-consuming to get the products certified by the international agencies.

On her first podt she said:

Kerrypatt wrote:

I am lucky to live near Kay's vegan bistro in Cay Diep lane, jsut off Nguyen Dinh Chieu st. She regualrly gets her veggies freh form Da Lat & has some organic fruit & veg too. very fresh, good quality food. Don't expect it to be fast though - all is prepared fresh after ordering.

Now. after commenting on my post, she returns with:

Kerrypatt wrote:

ok, so what about places like Annam gourmet market & veggies which import certified organic food from overseas? ( & then keep it int eh cold room to expand shelf life...), obviously it won't be as fresh as we'd all really like but at least it's certified.... thought?

My thoughts? You just moved the goal posts, and that your first post has been invalidated. As for your second post, my comments apply. How do you know where they actually came from? Under what conditions they were actually grown in? Was night soil used to fertilise them (organic?), or grown on the banks of a polluted river.

The fact is there are a lot of con artists in most businesses in the region, not only VietNam, and I understand why - money to live on. Some people have identified a source of income - organic and vegetarian food lovers - and they are supplying what you want.

There are no standards to observe for these speciality foods, therefore there no enforcement.

All you can do is trust your suppliers accepting they have little knowledge but know a good way to make money (or know a printer who will make cute labels to stick on veggies).

Jaitch wrote:

Kerrypatt wrote:

I THINK YOU SHOULD GO THERE & talk to the wner (sic), Kim and ask her for details yourself before posting sarcastic comments.... she is very passionate about food quality & the benefits of eating as medicine.

Not 'sarcastic', fact, even the VNese newspapers have tracked how these 'organic' and 'vegetarian' materialise on store shelves.

Several stores were traced to sourcing at the local wholesale markets, granted they sorted out the good looking ones, but the sources were no different from other stores.

Go read Do you know where your food comes from?.

Many vegetables, such as morning glory, are grown on rafts floating in sewage polluted rivers.[img align=c]https://images.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.c.photoshelter.com%2Fimg-get%2FI0000ArDwRYPcUyM%2Fs%2F880%2F880%2FWoman-paddle-barge-Vietnam-Andre-Minoretti-NOI-Pictures-05-copy.jpg&f=1[/url]

Woman collecting vegetables grown in polluted river

And what Vietnamese standards given 'organic' and 'vegetarian' foods?

Ahh, you are killing my dream of living (90 days at a time LOL!!) in Hoi An.  I was looking forward to buying all of my fresh fruits and vegetables from the local outdoor markets and enjoying the local street food.  I have serious issues with the FDA in the US, don't trust them at all, so I try to buy everything at either the Farmers Market or Whole Foods both are extremely expensive in Los Angeles.  I was really looking forward to not having to worry about chemicals since the food comes from small farms.

Oh well, I will keep checking as I have 10 years to go.

Woah, never thought this topic could come accross with many serious people. Thought you all knew what you could get to live here in Vietnam. This is a jungle where they step on each other to survive. To buy a product here is like playing a poker game. You have face the OwNer- your opponent, not the person who takes the money from you- the dealer. To know a real good products or not, or a real good vendor, you are the one who decide. And please, we are all suffered, hold on to your assumptions, we are all know how bad it is and sure the vietnamese do too.
To kerrpatt, don't know where you get the ideas that Annam IMPORT their veggies? Their business is WINE, and selling vegetable for a slump change to bother to import? That is the biggest joke, sorry.
And to colinoscapee, I did a little digging about that lady, and with my friend' s help in translating, sorry to tell you that she is the BiGGEST scammer. She has no land to even grow anything herself, no actual contract with any reliable suppliers, and her mistake was misleading serious consumer like me. Due to my work, I get to travel a lot, and when I ask for something that concerns me, I sure go till the end. The places/farms  where she claimed belong to her or company or they get the veggies, they don't even know or hear about her. What a shame. And for sure, time consuming to get an international agency to certify isn't a big issue if the business want to start of legitimately.
Check the veggies that have EU -bio certify. Euro control has set their office here, and they CAN'T be bought.
cheers,

Can you show me the evidence she is a scammer, if she is, she has fooled quite a few people in the media.

Seriously, colinoscapee, I don't know how long you have been here or you are too naive to believe in media and whatever shown on newspapers, internet. Those are paid articles. And plus, her professional is JOUrnalist, so I am sure she has her way to publish what she wants to advertise.
And I have said in my earlier post, I went to the places that she fooled me where she got her produces, and it wasnt checked out like she said, so I am sorry, she aint who she is either.
And trust me, the one who least appears (or better not) on the media is somewhat trustworthy. It is back to the ROOT of the "organic" meaning. It's all about mouth to mouth reference.

Sounds to me like you're a bit full of yourself, I actually contacted her directly and showed her your post. She said you're the one who is being deceived.

sjpersonal wrote:

Ahh, you are killing my dream of living (90 days at a time LOL!!) in Hoi An.  I was looking forward to buying all of my fresh fruits and vegetables from the local outdoor markets and enjoying the local street food.  I have serious issues with the FDA in the US, don't trust them at all, so I try to buy everything at either the Farmers Market or Whole Foods both are extremely expensive in Los Angeles.  I was really looking forward to not having to worry about chemicals since the food comes from small farms.

In the HOI AN region you need to keep an eye on pig disease reports. Porcine Reproductive and Respiratory Syndrome (PRRS), also known as blue ear pig disease, and is caused by a virus is the killer. The strain that VietNam has is a more unusual form of PRRS, and is infecting adult pigs as well as young piglets.

Western-style chickens (with over-sized breasts) are grown in VN (by an Australian outfit) and now VN has a herd of beef cattle imported, again, from Australia.

The ground in VietNam needs supplements to support crop-growing. This means artificial fertilisers or from animal/human sources. Artificial/imported fertilisers cost big money (hard currency). Animal/human fertilisers are preferred because of the low(er) cost.

If you stick a bottle in any of the rivers around Hoi An you will see how much 'junk' there is in the water. According to the government 94% of human waste is dumped untreated in to waterways and the sea including the  Thu Bon River in Hoi An!

The 'stream' under the Japanese Bridge (even painted by Monet) originates in a 'pond' alongside Phan Chu Trinh which is fed by sewers from the adjacent areas - BUT it grows great vegetables!

The local cho (market) is near the mosquito-ridden Life Resort on the river side of Phan Bot Chau (Hoi An has changed it's street names as it promoted tourism) where you can get good quality, fresh vegetables and seafood. But, depending on your definition, I doubt if it could be called 'organic'.

You might notice that VNese cook pork well, the bones for four hours, as they don't use antibiotics in the country ($$$) the pork tastes great!

In 22 years here I have only had the SaiGon Sh*ts two or three times (Ha Noi, Hue and Nha Trang) and I have travelled the whole of the country, several times, in that period. Proper 'street food' on Hoi An (not touristy places) was safe on every occasion I was there.

If you go to CUA DAI BEACH, to the LEFT of the intersection of Cua Dai (from the town), Au Co Lac Long Quan and Tinh Lo 603A roads you will find some great beach vendors cooking great seafood dishes, made tastier with the local beer.

A word of warning. Right opposite this intersection there are two flag poles - if they are flying RED FLAGS it means the water is dangerous and can (and often does) drown tourists. The village has even erected a notice board to this effect, in English, as it is so bad.

Given the state of US food, things aren't so bad here, really.

Hello everybody,

Please note that i have removed some posts from this thread.
Can we please calm down here?

Thanks

Priscilla

colinoscapee wrote:

Sounds to me like you're a bit full of yourself, I actually contacted her directly and showed her your post. She said you're the one who is being deceived.

I have a friend who is the Vietnamese marketing rep for a very large, wealthy American agro-business company which wants to penetrate the VN market with man-made fertilisers.

Last year we spent four months driving around VN - she visiting her potential sales targets and I doing own thing. She has a French Masters degree in food / farming.

The problem is definitions. Just what the hell is 'organic'?

Does growing vegetables, with no added fertiliser, on a float in the middle of a river filled with human excrement and chemical waste imply 'organic'?

Land in VietNam, as in almost every other country, is incapable of supporting healthy food growth unaided. Which is why the farmers depend on fertilisers - be they 'natural' or man-made'.

You are unlikely to get the 'straight goods' from most VNese as they don't want to 'lose face'. They are proud people. Most every Foreigner has experienced VNese saying they understand whilst their body-language says otherwise.

Why don't you head out one day, at around 02.30-03.00H to the wholesale/distribution markets in Ho Chi Minh City and see for yourself. Don't go alone, some of these places are very unsavoury and they certainly don't like Foreigners sitting their and observing.

I have, on many occasions. First I find out all I can about a store buyer, their means of transportation etc. All the rest is observation. A certain 'organic' store told me they get 'fresh vegetables from Da Lat' 'every morning'. I asked if their truck was a certain colour with the name on the side and answer was 'Yes!'. Knowing they only had one truck, and where they parked it, I said their their truck had been parked all night and was still there when I entered the store.

Red faces all round - and then an admission they did buy supplies from local HCM markets, too.

I am not a stranger to 'dumpster diving', either.  There is a store on Nguyen Thai Binh in Quan Tan Binh. The store front looks great; the presentation is great - they even have paper doily (also doiley, doilie, doyly, or doyley) around certain fruits such as the apples or larger fruits.

What they hadn't realised that I drank coffee at a street-side coffee stand from around 04.30H - close by this vegetable shop. Later, a motorcycle, dragging a home-made trailer pills up and the boxes of fruit are placed on the sidewalk.

The couple then sit down then pull stickers from the fruits and, in fine Vietnamese tradition toss the discarded labels on the street and then, carefully, replace these labels with new sticky labels. They carefully fold up the boxes in which they bought the fruit, complete with their Chinese hieroglyphics, and pole them on the sidewalk. Shortly afterwards a 'recycling' woman comes by and buys the boxes.

After the street-side vegetable and fruit display is complete, the couple turn the cooling water mister on and settle down for breakfast.

I get on my motorscooter and drive over to the store, making sure I park in the discarded labels - which stuck to my tire/tyre. I got off and checked the apples - all had Washington State stickers on them!

Had you, ColinOscapee, gone along when the store was officially open you, too, would have been firmly convinced these were apples from Washington, USA.

So before you go opining ColinOscapee: "Sounds to me like you're a bit full of yourself" check things out, yourself, thoroughly.
The best you can do on VietNam is to hunt down wholesome food.

Here is the link of a company that many of you could have heard of http://www.sgs.vn/en/Agriculture-Food/F … ation.aspx

And below is another link of someone's business that I just found when we discuss:
http://www.asialifemagazine.com/vietnam … n-vietnam/

I post on here for ppl who really care for the source of food they consume.

Jaitch that's a bit rich coming from you, the forums know it all.

Artichoke,I do not know the woman personally as you seem to be stating.

Another thing, in the article she said there were no Vietnamese agencies certifying,SGS is not Vietnamese it's a foreign company.

colinoscapee wrote:

Jaitch that's a bit rich coming from you, the forums know it all.

The difference is I check things out whereas others such as ....

Yeah right, just like you did not so long ago giving out the wrong address for a business.

Yep, just as I thought, as soon as you get shown up you run with your tail between your legs.

Hi all,

Could we avoid going off topic please?

Thanks
Armand
Expat.com Team