The unofficial web page of the greater Cuenca expat community

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51-BKGQnrPL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA300_SH20_OU01_.jpg

Received a "free review copy" of the above book to promote on my page.........................

Speaking on fluency he says:

"There is no absolute, discernible point you pass when you can say, Now I speak the language fluently. Its like the idea of beauty, in that way. You can have more of it, but there is no threshold you finally cross that signals youve arrived. Its all relative."


Further,

This is a problem if we want something distinct to aim for, though. And even if we each came up with a personal understanding of what feels accurate or good enough, because we are all filled with bias, confidence issues, unrealistic expectations, and elitist standards, as well as definitions of the word fluent that might be way too flexible, I dont think such vague understandings are useful for a mission with a specific target.


The author advocates taking a standardized exam to establish whether you have reached fluency. I interpret the passage below as him saying that if you are going to talk smack on your blogs, websites, ebooks (gringo tree) about how great your Spanish is and how important it is for us to learn, then give us something a little more objective than your personal self-assessment of your language abilities.

The CEFRL System

With such conflicting ideas about what constitutes fluency, the system I rely on is a much more scientific and well-established language threshold criterion used by the major bodies that examine language levels in Europe. Foundations like the Alliance Française, the Instituto Cervantes, and the Goethe-Institut all use the Common European Framework of Reference for Languages (CEFRL), a comprehensive guideline of language evaluation.
This system uses standard terminology, accepted across Europe (and used by many institutions for Asian languages, even if not adopted by those countries formally), for specific language levels. In the terminology, basically A means beginner, B means intermediate, and C means advanced. Each level is then split into lower 1 and upper 2. So upper beginner level is A2, and lower advanced level would be C1. The six levels on this scale, from the simplest to the most complex, are A1, A2, B1, B2, C1, and C2.
On this scale, an A level is what I would generally call a functional tourist: good enough to get by for basic necessities, or a beginner in various stages. C level implies mastery: you can work in the language exactly as you would in your native tongue and are effectively as good as a native in all ways, though you may still have an accent.
In my mind, fluency starts at level B2 and includes all levels above it (C1 and C2). More specifically, a person who reaches the B2 level on the CEFRL scale, relevant to the conversational aspect, is defined as someone who can interact with a degree of fluency and spontaneity that makes regular interaction with native speakers quite possible without strain for either party.

This means that, for a solid fluency goal, you should aim to participate in regular conversations without strain for either you or the people you are speaking with. Thats regular conversations, not debates on sixteenth-century French politics.
For me, B2 fluency at least in a conversational, social context implies that I can live my life in this language exactly as I would in English. I can go to any social event that I would typically go to in English and chat with natives without having them slow down for my benefit. I can discuss anything I would in English at a casual event, and natives can generally talk to me as they would with another native speaker.
What it doesn't imply is also very important to consider. Hesitations are okay, and accents are fine. (In fact, you can earn a C2 diploma with an accent, as long as it doesnt hinder communication.) Also fine at the B2 level is the inability to discuss some very complex topics.
Realizing your limitations is essential, because aiming for perfection is a fools errand. You need to be realistic, but you can also aim for the milestone on your path of maybe someday mastering a language. There is never an end point at which you can say your work in learning the language is done. Even in my native language of English I still encounter new words and aspects of other dialects I didnt know before. Learning a language can be a lifelong adventure, but the point is that you can reach certain stages within finite times when you have those stages well defined.
Even if you don´´t agree with my specific definition of fluency, make sure your definition is as clear as possible and includes specifics of what it is not.


For those in peep brigade interested in taking an exam to establish your level of Spansh fluency, here is a link:

http://www.dele.org/

I hope to take level C1 someday, but only if and when I can turn on any Spanish program on the television and understand 90% of the dialog clearly.

I am still waiting to understand the English on most of TV.

I'm working with the DuoLingo app. It's fun!

aterosin wrote:

I'm working with the DuoLingo app. It's fun!


I have heard a lot of buzz about that application and website.  I read something in the WSJ recently that said they make their money by having students/members translate documents as part of the learning process.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-mP-gCW5wLf8/U2qNwcyphOI/AAAAAAAABn4/LOWNdBvaY7g/s800/P_20140507_132453.jpg

In recent weeks I rendered peep services at the above restaurant. It has two locations but this one is in Chaullamba which is a community that is about 15 minutes east of Cuenca where many of the upper crust (foreign and local) live. It is right of the Panamerican highway.

As you can see below it has a night outside eating area:

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-sHtX5LMF6TM/U2qNsjCRhpI/AAAAAAAABnw/lrAIrjuv8_8/s800/P_20140507_132507.jpg

From the patio you will have the following view:

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-e1VKb9w6myY/U3LC4lmR6xI/AAAAAAAABo4/ygr2Z344Pyk/s800/P_20140428_102553.jpg

It was from behind the following counter that I did my work. During idle moments I would blurt out "No fish for you". No one understood what I was saying so it was for my own amusement:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-u0D0W8DTGsk/U4dUkdvG0YI/AAAAAAAABq0/veYOIDeAJ-Y/s800/fishnazi.jpg

I was actually referred to by my associate (a local) to the owner of the restaurant (another local) that I was a "maestro".  All of the tradesmen such as plumbers, electricians, bricklayers etc are referred to with this title as a form of respect. Little did I know that the skills I learned hooking up a Sony Playstation to my television to play games would later earn me the title of "maestro" in Ecuador some day.

Below was my compensation for services rendered.  I said I work for food and I meant it.  This is what they call Encebollado which is a fish soup basically. It retails at this restaurant for a $1.90 and you squeeze lime juice and put corn nuts on top of it. It has been on radar to try for sometime ever since the Canadian bloggers literally fell in love with it.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-3qGYv2E3-ZA/U3LCxg_2-wI/AAAAAAAABow/K1E8yjWWz10/s800/P_20140513_105435.jpg

I'm still at Level One. No documents to translate for me yet.

Nards Barley wrote:

It was from behind the following counter that I did my work. During idle moments I would blurt out "No fish for you". No one understood what I was saying so it was for my own amusement:


One would think the Soup Nazi is a well known character.
I know the feeling, when we were headed to Istanbul I told the people.  "Can't wait to see the relics of an empire based on propping up your feet."  They did not get that Jerry Seinfeld remark about the Ottoman Empire.

Nards, that restaurant is not too far from where we live.  We will have to try it out.  Always seems to have customers when we drive by there...  Good to know it gets your seal of approval - or is that the lunch talking?

quito0819 wrote:

Nards, that restaurant is not too far from where we live.  We will have to try it out.  Always seems to have customers when we drive by there...  Good to know it gets your seal of approval - or is that the lunch talking?


Yeah, I think it is worth trying.  Prices escalate sharply if you order anything but the Encebollado, however.  Plus, you won´t find any fish tacos, fish and chips or New England clam chowder on the menu.................

http://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/02/e7/fa/db/joes-secret-garden.jpg

I finally went to Joe´s Secret Garden on Saturday deep in the bowels of Gringolandia after two years of hearing the hype.  The fried chicken seems to the thing I hear the most chatter about, although Beadwindow seems to think the Mexican food is the shizz.

I didn´t realize it was an all-you-can-eat event, and if you eat like a glutinous pig, it is actually a good value for $12.50.  I ate 6 pieces of chicken, multiple servings of mashed potatoes and coleslaw, and 5 or 6 biscuits and a chocolate pudding cake. I figured I ate and drank at least 2,000 calories and the truth is I needed every one of those calories. Of course the booze is extra.

Now a sharp change in topic:

It is rare to find a Movie or TV show with a Spanish audio track that has Spanish subtitles that correspond exactly with the dialog. I found a channel called Planet Doc on Youtube that does.


https://www.facebook.com/PlanetDocChannelhttps://www.youtube.com/user/PlanetDocChannel

Also, this restaurant,  Marisqueria Chola Cuencana, is very close to the Motels zone in Cuenca.
I don't know if they have the same meaning in the US but in Ecuador "motels" are a place you take your couple or "friend" if you don't have a bed in other place or you have an affair with someone married or you're married.

Vinny

vinny66 wrote:

Also, this restaurant is very close to the Motels zone in Cuenca.
I don't know if they have the same meaning in the US but in Ecuador "motels" are a place you take your couple or "friend" if you don't have a bed in other place or you have an affair with someone married or you're married.

Vinny


Some are used as such in the USA, called a no tell motel, but others are legit places for anyone to stay while traveling.

Nards Barley wrote:

I didn´t realize it was an all-you-can-eat event, and if you eat like a glutinous pig, it is actually a good value for $12.50.


Not a bad price, the all you can eat Asian buffets here cost anywhere from $10.00 to $13,00, but there is much more variety, about the same amount of calories.  Usually the only meal of the day, and sleep is suggested shortly thereafter.

vinny66 wrote:

Also, this restaurant,  Marisqueria Chola Cuencana, is very close to the Motels zone in Cuenca.
I don't know if they have the same meaning in the US but in Ecuador "motels" are a place you take your couple or "friend" if you don't have a bed in other place or you have an affair with someone married or you're married.


This must be why I never run into you in El Centro anymore.

P.S.
There is also an assisted living building very close that restaurant.

Well, I wish that's the reason but in fact, have been really busy, no time for walking around in downtown.

Vinny

vinny66 wrote:

Well, I wish that's the reason but in fact, have been really busy, no time for walking around in downtown.

Vinny


I know; just kidding. You are busy moving the stuff for all those boomers that keep moving to Ecuador.

Nards Barley wrote:
vinny66 wrote:

Well, I wish that's the reason but in fact, have been really busy, no time for walking around in downtown.

Vinny


I know; just kidding. You are busy moving the stuff for all those boomers that keep moving to Ecuador.


Congrats, Vinny, glad to hear business is good.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-tKw7526TQgU/U6DEwxy_trI/AAAAAAAABsQ/rsqL4YxW-Bk/s800/P_20140617_104624.jpg

I was rendering peep services today at the above auto parts store in the town of Azogues, which is about a 30 minute drive from Cuenca.  While Cuenca is in the Azuay Province, Azogues is in the Cañar Province.  According to Wikipedia it has a 40,000 population, but it seemed bigger to me.

In town, I snapped the following photo from the car:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-zyjDfWjoJl8/U6DEjFqSiSI/AAAAAAAABsI/dO12OFE1y-M/s800/IMG_20140617_174256.JPG

As I learned later on the drive back, the road that picture was taken from is named "Che Ernesto Guevara".

CB48 wrote:

I am still waiting to understand the English on most of TV.


Young lady,
I am in Houston Tx., selling every thing & thinking of Ecuador & a house as you are seeking,
However, I am thinking of buying property & building a big rooming house,& feed the roomers.
What do you think of that?
I would get a lawyer that is well known from lawyers from the U.S. A..
Thanks Barry  [email protected]

My house is for sale,  my car is sold, most of the furniture is spoken for. A lifetime will fit in a few suitcases in a couple of months. I can't wait! !

CB48 wrote:

My house is for sale,  my car is sold, most of the furniture is spoken for. A lifetime will fit in a few suitcases in a couple of months. I can't wait! !


Yes, the anticipation is very exciting for you, I am very happy for you.  The Cardinals just lost two in a row to the Phillies, does not look like you will be missing a St Louis World Series.  But the question remains, what do you think of a boarding house owned by a 78 year old 60% disabled Korean War vet who is looking for a partner?

Did he say he was looking for a partner?

CB48 wrote:

Did he say he was looking for a partner?


On other threads he advertizes himself as being very active, looking for a companion.

I see.............

a few months ago wjwoodward from the Brazil forum had started a thread with a title that read something like "You know you live in Brazil when.............".  He and others proceeded to poke fun at Brazil which angered some of the locals from Brazil and resulted in the deletion of the thread by the moderators.

Anyway, now it is my turn.................

]You know you live in Cuenca, or more specifically in my sector when........................

you leave your house overnight to go dog sitting (don´t tell anyone I do dog sitting) and you lock your television in a storage area beneath your staircase behind a custom made steel door which you lock with a padlock, which is hidden by another nondescript wood door.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-6W2AFvkCmkk/U6wvYLhNCYI/AAAAAAAABtc/hBYKwFhMjJs/s800/P_20140626_093009.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-5ml9FQI5lTQ/U6wvgXp375I/AAAAAAAABts/-SRZy9_hqe8/s800/P_20140626_093152.jpg

I usually keep other stuff in my "vault" all the time including my security camera recorder, as well other equipment including satellite phones, encryption computers, GPS tracking devices, exploding pens and other things any undercover operative worth his salt would have.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-PEABBTsSCCM/U6wvdfuOlfI/AAAAAAAABtk/M4sTFQGzL5s/s800/P_20140626_093045.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-_rzAROgtnbk/U6wvkBnC9KI/AAAAAAAABt0/7Y0RdB3ONts/s800/P_20140626_093108.jpg

How very prudent of you.  I guess you are not required to do any undercover operative work while doing that other unmentionable thing involving four legged domestic animals.

maybe a Panic room is next?

mugtech wrote:

How very prudent of you.  I guess you are not required to do any undercover operative work while doing that other unmentionable thing involving four legged domestic animals.


It serves as a front operation for my true purpose in Ecuador.

aterosin wrote:

maybe a Panic room is next?


Probably not a bad idea. I actually need to report on a horrible crime that occurred in my sector a couple weeks ago, but have been putting it off since I know my house value will plummet to new lows.

Nards did you install that lockup closet or was it already in the apartment as vault?

I was watching House Hunters International and one episode was a mother/daughter in Tel Aviv. Two of the three high rise apartments they were shown had built-in reinforced concrete bomb shelters. They immediately rejected the apartment without one, unacceptable.

These are not amenities I would normally consider when evaluating a housing choice.

Thanks for posting your pics. Educational.

gardener1 wrote:

Nards did you install that lockup closet or was it already in the apartment as vault?

I was watching House Hunters International and one episode was a mother/daughter in Tel Aviv. Two of the three high rise apartments they were shown had built-in reinforced concrete bomb shelters. They immediately rejected the apartment without one, unacceptable.

These are not amenities I would normally consider when evaluating a housing choice.

Thanks for posting your pics. Educational.


I had that steel door installed after my rowhouse was broken into. I can stick my hand through that hole in the door and add a second padlock on the other side of the door as well.

Absolutely loving all the frank and entertaining info. as we research our move to Ecuador! Keep it coming!

http://www.intisisa.org/INTISISA/z-IMAGES/Map480x380-TRANS2.gif

I got up recently at 5:00 in the morning to go on a day trip to Guamote (bottom third of the above map) with three of my associates (all locals) in order to fulfill my current role in Ecuadorian society as a PSP (peep service provider).

Along the way we stopped at a road side diner for breakfast (part of my compensation).  I was hoping to orderpigs in a blanked. hash browns and eggs over easy, but all they was Seco de Carne.  As wikipedia states,

Seco is a popular stewed meat plate served in Ecuador.


https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Ubk-roDaCmg/U6OEk2DyLnI/AAAAAAAABs0/EOio82EDwj0/s800/P_20140618_071047.jpg

I asked my associates why they call this plate "Seco" (means dry in Spanish) since the meat is moist, and is frequently buried in sauce. They had no idea.  I asked my Spanish tutor who is preparing for the Dele exam, level B2 in November and she told me it was because many years ago people in the Sierras went to work on the coast and they had never seen rice before (they were potato eaters).  She said the highlanders asked the coastal people where is the f%$&ing sauce for this rabbit food you are serving us.  They coastal people said "there is no f&%$ing sauce". It has been served dry in China for a thousands of years".

After breakfast we later stopped at a mechanics shop off the highway that looked over the town of Alausí.  This is where the Devils Nose train departs. Just about every travel blogger based out of Ecuador has written about their train ride. I snapped this photo. I thought the big statute might be iof Jesus, but it turns out was of San Pedro:
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-ZXKbOC8IwaI/U6Wx7wFwDDI/AAAAAAAABtM/Be-Yewzh1Pg/s800/San%2520Pedro.jpg

We left one of my associates at the mechanics shop to install an alarm while we proceeded to Guamote. It was at the following gas station where I did my work:
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-7TfFq_BBTkk/U6OEgukeXMI/AAAAAAAABss/Pky386MO_Do/s800/P_20140618_103016.jpg

I have directed my associates to present me to the client with the name of "Q" in honor on the late Sir Q of his Majesty´s Secret Services. 

I got a second free meal next to the gas station which consisted of a chicken breast with rice. Later we drove to another gas station and configured a computer so the boss could spy on his employees to make sure they weren´t screwing off.

I got back to Cuenca around 8:30 p.m.  Another job well done in Ecuador and another bump-up in my cultural assimilation quotient, as I continue my climb the pecking order.

Gaumote is the coolest little town in the middle of nowhere. rene, my brother was tearing down the Panamerican as I was reading the Lonely Planet on a Thursday. I yelled STOP its Market Day in Guamote. and what a market it was. we were just about the only non brown humans and with most of our party over six feet tall we got a lot of stares. If I could figure out how to put pics in a message I could show you the RAW Ecuador pictures of Guamote. If u can stop there on market day...

aterosin wrote:

Gaumote is the coolest little town in the middle of nowhere. rene, my brother was tearing down the Panamerican as I was reading the Lonely Planet on a Thursday. I yelled STOP its Market Day in Guamote. and what a market it was. we were just about the only non brown humans and with most of our party over six feet tall we got a lot of stares. If I could figure out how to put pics in a message I could show you the RAW Ecuador pictures of Guamote. If u can stop there on market day...


Aterosin,

II you send me a few of your favorite pics of Guamote to [email protected] I will post them in a comment. regards

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-nem5RyZgzCM/U88F8CCGrvI/AAAAAAAABuQ/UqEXzafygoE/s800/P_20140722_194528.jpg

That bag above says Mi Buen Pan De Todos los dias.  Of course in English that means  something lik "My Good Bread that I eat every day, without fail."

This bag of bread was given to me by the appreciate owner of a bread store located just beyond Gringolandia for whom I rendered peep services. This despite the fact I displayed a few moments of ugly Americanism cursing at their computer for which I make no apologies.

By the way, I figure Gringolandia ends about where the last PIñars Apartment building is, although we may need to extend it further out since there appears to be another tall apartment building being built further down on Ordoñez Lasso.

While I like bread, I generally like it used on sandwiches rather than the primary staple for breakfast.  If I had my druthers, I would prefer it if the Ecuadorians were more into the thin corn tortillas they eat in Mexico and Central America.

That bag above says Mi Buen Pan De Todos los dias.  Of course in English that means  something lik "My Good Bread that I eat every day, without fail."

Sounds to me like a bit of a play on the Our Father Danos hoy nuestra pan de cada día....  In a religious country like Ecuador could be a bit of subliminal messaging equating their bread with the pan de cada día...

Of course I might be sucking down too much wine...

I almost busted a gut laughing when I saw this sign posted in the bathroom of a gas station in Guayaquil the other day, while I was in route to the coast. I don´t think you have to be a PSP to find it funny:

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-v0oI-KMzgXw/U9FSgoLIGYI/AAAAAAAABug/S0Actcd_3Dk/s800/P_20140723_150123.jpg

The sign asks the question "Are you capable of keeping the bathroom clean or do we nned to watch you?"

There was also this sign on the outside of the bathroom, but what I found more interesting was the fact the soap dispenser and hand drier where attached here as well:

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-J8Fgzt2YthM/U9FSpDsjWWI/AAAAAAAABuo/cJthB1hF62c/s800/P_20140723_150133.jpg

Think it's a nice try, but cameras in the bathroom just might not get the legal system's approval.

A friend of mine called me earlier today to tell a couple of his friends-- an expat couple (one of whom is in his 80s) -- who recently moved to Vilcabama, were robbed and kidnapped last night at their home.  Details are still sketchy since he was informed by email.  Supposedly they were traveling with an Ecuadorian from Loja who still may being held while the expats are safe back in Vilcabamba.

P.S.
I think talking about crime in Ecuador is a perfectly reasonable thing even if some non-expat "experts"  get unhinged about it or try to marginalize the topic.