They're offering 130,000RMB / month....what do you say?

Too good to be true! 130,000 RMB is nearly 20,000 USD, is that your monthly pay when you work in China? If you are going to be a big company CEO, then I think it could be right.

Thank you for your reply Malacca. I made a mistake it is actually in HKD not RMB, so it translates into 17000 USD more or less...but remember we are five and that we have western habits (restaurants + supermarket) and I am guessing that you would need to travel for any break that you can find to relax and have the family happy...I guess the question is...how much do expats spend a year or a month to have an idea

What do you do Spiribizki ? I believe RMB 130000/month can put you in a high social class in anywhere!

:lol:if the company will pay you house and school, then i think you and your family will be fine for living. maybe one thing you need to consider that where the house and school locate in beijing, that means you need to do a little bit reaserch of taffic.  large living expess will be house, education(international), car/traffic, each location of your work, home, school...others are really not a big deal if you have this high salary~
enjoy! you and your family will like beijing:lol:

dont worry thats much more than enough to live very well in high class here
by the way i am wondering are you going to be DIRECTOR or CEO of some multinational company ?

oh, no.....

look for me if you have drinking exensive wine habit. give u expat-blog special price

Thank you for your reply.

I made a mistake it is acutally 130,000 HKD which converts into 117,000 RMB. They pay the international school and the house...so you really think that will be enough? Will we be able to save?(the whole point for the family).

If we go to China, we will go with humble to learn from that magnificent culture and people, but please understand that the family needs to know if it makes sense economically wise.

No, I am not a CEO, I would be R&D manager for Asia.

regards,

Spiribizki

Your company should give you 1 month trial period for you to see whether you and your family can cop with China culture and life. Maybe a request to your company for a 1 month trial in Beijing for yourself?

spiribizki wrote:

Thank you for your reply.

I made a mistake it is acutally 130,000 HKD which converts into 117,000 RMB. They pay the international school and the house...so you really think that will be enough? Will we be able to save?(the whole point for the family).

If we go to China, we will go with humble to learn from that magnificent culture and people, but please understand that the family needs to know if it makes sense economically wise.

No, I am not a CEO, I would be R&D manager for Asia.

regards,

Spiribizki

spiribizki wrote:
Thank you for your reply.

I made a mistake it is acutally 130,000 HKD which converts into 117,000 RMB. They pay the international school and the house...so you really think that will be enough? Will we be able to save?(the whole point for the family).

if your family will have income from your wife as well, i think you be able to save some money. if you want to save money, you can whatever how much you earn. you will be fine,even 117000rmb still a big wage for everything.

As always it depends on your lifestyle.

For most people 117,000RMB/month plus housing, plus schooling (plus Health Insurance?) is more than adequate. Many would be delighted to have that per annum.

I believe, as well others in here, you will be able to do well with that kind of salary after tax plus incentives that you mentioned, even a family likes yours (5) its good!. You can live a life as an expat it depends merely of your lifestyle, don't worry too much...Saving depends on how you spend for sure.

Many have a wonderful social life in here, less than what you've been proposed per month, so, hop in and try to experience expat life in China (beijing)  if here you'll be based.

17000 USD a month is a lot of money and you and your family will happily live comfortable on that salary. What do you do??

I believe with USD17k monthly you could live a luxury life style even in US. So I don't see why you are troubled.

Saving wise it really depends on your spending habit. If you are not the kind of guy who only wears tailored made shirts and drive Ferrari, then there is nothing to worry about. Probably you will have a better life here than in your home country.

You will live very well on that salary.

I think this was last updated in 2008, but I found this price converter for goods and services. It gives you an idea of how prices compare in Beijing and some Western countries, including the US: stuckinbeijing.com/beijingprices.php

Keep in mind the average Beijing worker's annual salary was 44,715 yuan in 2008. You will be fine... no, more than fine.

Don't worry, you can live comfortably anywhere in the world on that paycheck. Only thing you need to worry about is whether the family can adapt.

Ben

you should consider the cost of changing life style and other qualitative factors when whole family move to a new environment.

Dear Spiribizki,

1) you might not want to rear your children in Beijing. well, there are pros and cons. I'm guessing you're aware of the pros from the news. The cons are that daily life is more...corrupt, for lack of a better word, even in international schools. By that I mean over 90% of transcripts and letters of rec coming out of China are falsified, and college admissions officers (at least at the choice Ivies many good students apply to) all know it. In general, the cultural definitions of fairness and integrity are very different from in the States...

2) Cost of living is much lower than Beijing than NYC. So is income disparity (as others have mentioned)--average wage would like be under 10, possibly 5k USD per annum. average white collar wage probably under 20 or 15k. Casually mentioning the nunber in this post, while no big deal in the States, actually makes you a potential (and reasonably juicy) kidnapping target in China.

Not to be alarmist, and you'll likely be fine if you exercise good sense/talk to expat friends if you have any, listen to your company briefing if any, etc etc...but it is very different here in many ways..

also be prepared for a world where IP is, for practical purposes, nonexistent. literally, you will find most standard corporate (much less IP) laws a bit..less straightforward...to enforce here than in the States.

2)

@ charlie_in_sh

interesting information! Like to see the source of your statistics.

charlie_in_sh wrote:

even in international schools. By that I mean over 90% of transcripts and letters of rec coming out of China are falsified, and college admissions officers (at least at the choice Ivies many good students apply to) all know it

You are opening yourself to a very serious libel case.

And then you go on to say a kidnapping target...are you selling protection services? Beijing, in my opinion, is one of the safest cities in the world. It is one of the only countries where Ambassadors still travel in cars with their national flags flying.

Not sure what the relevance of the IP section is to the OP question but yes there are many "brand compatible" products for sale. However, before we throw stones we need to check our own glasshouses. 

I assume that most foreigners living in China are quite content to purchase DVD's for 5 - 10RMB, brand name shirts for 40RMB, and LV bag copies for a fraction of the price of a real one.

I agree with Manlin, Beijing is a safe city and concerns about being a kidnapping target is ridiculous.
It's not necessarily easy to raise a family in Beijing, but I grew up here and now work with teens who are living here and it's really a great place to be.

I agree with Manlin as well, for a city of this size it is really safe. I am sure you can find unsafe areas same as in any big city. You certainly can save money. Housing is the biggest expensive. It certainly can be an adventure, especially if you do not now the language.

I have been here for 5 months and can give you the perspective from a newbies point of view, just send me a message if you are interested in talking.

Let us know if you move here.

I am sure there are many better kidnapping targets in Beijing, for whom kidnappers could asking millions RMB !

Remember this is a country has most death penalty charges. Kidnapping foreigners? No way, nobody can get away with it.

spiribizki wrote:

Hi friends,

I have been offered to relocate to Beijing for 3-4 years with my three kids and wife (family of 5).  The company would be paying for the house and the international school and 130000 RMB per month after tax (plus the trip back home once a year, and other amenities) What do you think? From what I've read it depends weather you live as an expat (I still don't understand the expression) or as a local.

I will greatly appreciate your input

thanks!

Spiribizki

With this package,you can easily saving up nearly 100,000 RMB per month as long as your wife will not buying Chanel handbags every month!

Wow! at first I thought I saw 13,000 a month and still thought that was good because housing and all extras were included. EVEN BETTER with 130,000! Thats amazing and does sound toogood to be true. Wish i was you

The issue will not be money, particularly if they are paying housing.  The real question will be can you tolerate the pollution and other health issues.  Petty crime will not be a problem, it is much safer than say Chicago.  Kidnapping?  All of the cases I have read about revolve around business relationships gone sour and unpaid bills.

Corruption in the schools is a fact (silly to try and gloss over it) but it should not have any effect on you.  Cost of living is high but and it does sting.  If you are making that much above and beyond your housing and tax liabilty now, you will find you are saving quite a bit less.  And if you maintain a home in the U.S. (I do) then it will not be as profitable as you might think.

The main thing is if you, your spouse and kids can tolerate living here.  It is impossible to adequately describe what the pollution is like, or how it may effect you.  And there is no way to tell until you have spent 3 months plus here.

If you do make the leap let me know and I will try and give you a heads up on what to bring.  I shipped 3 pallets (1.5 tons) of things here and it made life, much, much more tolerable.

Couple more things to think about:

1)  Paying for the move versus reimbursement.  We got a deal where they offered to pay our move (one 40' shipping container) or I could arrange shipping myself and they reimbursed us a fixed amount similar to the quote.  Moving company wanted close to $20k to move us, I shipped 3 pallets and cleared them myself for about $1600 and took the reimbursement.  I did not ship furniture etc.

2)  Health insurance - make sure you get a plan that pays for medical care both here and in the United States.  For anything even remotely serious you will want to think about flying back to the U.S.  That coverage is pricey.

3)  Your once a year round trip tickets should be business class for everyone in the family.  Makes it easier to get them to come back to China   

4)  Make sure you really look over the tax equalization policy or whatever they offer.  Show it to your accountant.  They will almost certainly insist on their firm doing your taxes (Deloitt does ours) but make sure they cover it, that prep is expensive.  You have to decide yourself the best strategy, but I prefer being paid in U.S. dollars in a U.S. account.

5)  Understand in no uncertain terms what happens if they pull the plug on your job while you are over here.  Will they pay to ship your stuff back (if you care).  Are they bound to honor the tax equaliztion policy (dont get caught holding the bag for last years taxes).

6)  If you have lived as an expat before then this next line is unneccessary.  But - really make sure the wife is on board with it.  And your kids.  This is not America.  It can be incredibly cool some days, and some days it will most certainly make you wonder why you ever did it.

7)  As a business person I will say that the experience is invaluable.  No amount of reading articles or watching TV pundits describe China will ever substitute for living it.  Even if you were to go back to the U.S. and never have anything to do with China again, you would still gain a clear advantage (in my opinion).

It sounds like you will be fine with that salary depending on how you and your family spends money.  I Beijing you could spend 1k (extrapolating based on experience) a day in food with a family of 5 if you eat out as much as I did when I arrived. 

As someone mentioned, experiment and work from Beijing for a month if you are given that option.  I know most companies would want a more firm commitment but take the option if it's offered then you can really size things up based on experience.


And some more things to consider...

Dentists can be pricey depending on where you get the work done.

Most companies expect overtime to be covered in the base salary and there tends to be less opportunities for working from home then in the States or Canada.  This means you'll probably be at the office more. 

Investigate the international school(s) being proposed.  I am sure they are very reasonable but the city is large and you'll likely want to live relatively close.

Get a good idea of the housing allowance up front and search for a place online that fits the budget.  Showing your wife the location and getting buy in will be key likely as someone else has mentioned.

Is the car rental also covered under amenities or is this to be deducted from your salary.  Just something else to factor in.  I know car rentals can run around 7500RMB+ a month and the driver if you don't drive will likely be anywhere from 2600+ RMB (Chinese speaking only) per month. 

Finally, if all of your salary is paid in RMB then you may need to consider how to convert your savings to US when you want to move back to the States.

Cheers,

TinTurtle, thanks for this post. Great advice and important things to consider. My wife and I are considering moving to Beijing (from Australia) to work in an international school for minimum 2yrs, and this has given me a few things to investigate.

I make a very nice salary here but not near what they are paying you....and I too have Western habits and love and miss western food.  You will pay a little more for the western food but in the long run its worth it.  Where I live a beer in a restaurant is 5rmb.  The import products are the most expensive...not because they are any better than the Chinese products...but its Western.   e.g. a Bud in a pub is about 40 or 50 rmb.  With your salary, and the cost of housing and schooling taken care of....you will do fine...But beware if you tend to drive here....enough said.  Good luck my friend..Coach p.s. you may be prudent to find and hire a domestic, I suggest a Filipina one that can cook western food as you will get sick of eating out all the time

That sum is ridiculously WRONG!!!

Well. that is nearly 200,000 us dollars per year, and that's more than enough for you to keep your westerners habit when you live here in China. I'm sure that you've heard enough for the previous suggestions and info.
But yeah, I think it will be a job with good pay, but working with Chinese people, good luck!

Personally, I think we have beaten this topic to death.  There is a ton of misinformation suggested with little back up of facts.  The kidnapping possibility, ridiculous, The falsifying of records at international schools, even more ridiculous.  I taught and coached in an international school for two years and witnessed none of this.  However, anyone in a position to make that kind of money should also be intelligent enough to do his own research on the transition from his country to China.  After all, isn't your new position for RESEARCH and Development Director.  All you need to know, is that a high percentage of Chinese will not make a small fraction of what you will draw in your job and many of them live fairly well.