Open Season on Ripoff Realtors

BobH wrote:

Is the problem that the sauces are sweet?

Given how much Ecuadorians like sweet, you would think that is it. But, no. First, The average food here is very bland. And, the amount of red sauce on the pizza is tiny. Plus the cheese is rarely aged and lacks the sharp flavor that distinguishes good cheese. I appreciate the food here because it is usually fresh and healthy. But, because I am a decent cook, I like bold flavors. The food is mostly understated and underseasoned, at best. Again, I am speaking strictly about Loja. I know food choices and the standard classics are very regional.

Another thing that really puzzles me is the focus on starch. I live with a family and eat the meals they serve daily. It is not unusual to see a pretty good soup first, often served with avocado and popcorn (this I love), followed by a meat, perhaps two starches, sometimes three (always rice then plantain, maybe potato, yucca, or other root vegetable, of which there are many), and finally ensalada (essentially salad). The Ensalada is usually a very small serving of something vegetarian, but often not more than a few tablespoons and often mixed with... guess... potato in various forms. I have finally convinced the family of the virtues of pure vegetables, and they are now serving a larger salads, or larger portions of straight vegetables: beets, carrots, broccoli, etc. I know I am being a bit fussy, so I should add that other than my wish for more varied spices, I am very pleased with the quality of the food.

There are some nice restaurants here, that try to serve gourmet food. But based on my cultural bias of what I believe is gourmet and my own skill level in cooking, I do think the cooks here in Loja are missing something. But, perhaps I am the one missing something: influenced by the prejudice of thinking my food tastes are somewhat more correct. They seem quite happy with what they call gourmet. But, I would venture this: chinese food here is dreadful just based on chinese standards for chinese food. Sushi, on the other hand, can be quite good.

It looks like the thread has deviated from the original topic…

I do believe the majority of us who is planning to come to this beautiful country and call it HOME would be very much interested to know what realtors you were happy with and what, let us say, not so much.

Any information would be very much appreciated. Please chime in!

SunSpotter wrote:

It looks like the thread has deviated from the original topic…

Well, yes that happens quite a lot but we do have loads of fun.

If you are interested in the coast, I have really appreciated the comments of Hector who posts under HGQ2112. He seems well informed and exceptionally fair and honest. Since he has posted this information before, I don't think he would mind me repeating it here.

HGQ2112 (aka: Hector G. Quintana)
RDRHGQ[at]gmail.com

Just a reminder that if you want to purchase, it is to your advantage to be here and live a while. During that time, you can ask locals (or fellow expats) for recommendations. As far as just renting, you only need to read the papers and walk around in neighbors to find a suitable space. This method will make it easier for to you avoid the sometimes over inflated prices offered by those who wish to "help" you. I gave more detail in a thread that is still active (it might even have been this one - to lazy today to check right now).

Certainly, I think we all appreciate Hector's advice, but, nevertheless, it would also be helpful if you, who are already on the ground and done this, would share your experiences…

Alex,

As I finished up my last comment to you, I was being called to Almuerzo. During lunch, I realized that I really didn't address the question you were asking. So, after lunch, I dug into my files and pulled out a card from someone I met two year ago. He is an English speaking driver that works in the Cuenca, Yungilla, and Vilcabamba region. He principally does tours, but I remember him offering to find me an affordable apartment in Cuenca. He said he knew plenty in the $200 to $300 range. He is a good resource because he would approach finding real estate the Ecuadorian way. I also found him to be very forthcoming, honest, and very likable. I have no idea of his present status, but if you are interested and PM me, I will send you the full contact information (e-mail and phone numbers) for him. I would rather not list it openly in  the forum since I do not have permission from him to do so and listing phone numbers openly is a very bad idea.

Dear forum members, moderators:

Joseph K wrote:

... I would rather not list it openly in the forum since I do not have permission from him to do so and listing phone numbers openly is a very bad idea.

I most sincerely apologize for totally overlooking privacy implications of posting information I was so carelessly asking about in the open.

In any case, if you would like to share your experience searching for and purchasing real estate, please PM yours truly at your convenience.

Thank you very kindly for your most appreciated help Joseph! I cannot even express my gratitude: I am “all thumbs” in life matters and do need all the help I could possibly get…

Yours truly,
Alex

SunSpotter wrote:

I most sincerely apologize for totally overlooking privacy implications of posting information I was so carelessly asking about in the open

In any case, if you would like to share your experience searching for and purchasing real estate, please PM yours truly at your convenience

Alex, no need to apologize. Ask whatever you want; this benefits everyone. If something is best handled privately, then one can, as I did, say so and then handle it that way.

On the first page of this thread, I did outline the three ways Ecuadorians approach finding property. As Mike pointed out, you would need to speak spanish to use this approach, and know a few Ecuadorians. This is for people who speak Spanish and who have been here for a while.

If you aren't one of those, then buying property has lots of pitfalls. This is why I go out of my way to repeat, and then repeat again, that you will be best served by spending the first year here renting. And then buying when you have a better understanding of the process and dangers. And, when you have met people who you feel you can trust.

Paying too much creates future purchasing difficulties for the average Ecuadorian (let's please put them first, since it is their country), not to mention overstressing your own pocketbook. But, a bigger problem is title fraud. It is not that difficult to find decent property, but in the buying process you want a lawyer very familiar with land purchases (a single lawyer can wear many hats) to vet your purchase and verify title. Other than understanding fair pricing and ensuring the absence of title fraud, the remaining issues will be those known by anyone who has bought property: mainly location, etc. It is important to understand the convenience, safety, and stability of a neighborhood, municipal plans, and so on. Again, this is best understood only after you have lived here at least a year.

Finally, let me say that if you don't speak Spanish, every effort you make to learn the language will be rewarded with the opportunity to see into and experience a society that, in my opinion, is far richer and more compelling that what most expats with little international experience have ever experienced.

hey guys, been here some 14 months and here is my two pence: I have made many expat friends. However, not more than a very few could stay on here more than a few months. Many ladies were "Outraged" at what they perceived to be sexual discrimination in Ecuadorian society that is very steeply Patriarchal in nature and this is visible in every aspect of this society. Most North American and European ladies find this difficult to adjust to. Some others were shocked by the slow and lazy pace of life...if someone says they will meet you at 6, there is no surety that they will be there at 7, 8 or at all! sometime they say things that you want to hear, with no intention of following through...and this is normal accepted social behavior here...and once again, many that are used to a fast paced and disciplined life find it hard to adjust to this...then is the issue of quality. Things may be cheap here (as in construction, furniture etc) but you get what you pay for, and quality is often not as good....

so, I tend to agree what most have already stated...come without any commitment, keeping the back door of retreat open if you are not able to adjust....dont close your options by buying and getting stuck!

As usual, Sam, you always bring a certain amount of balance to everything. All you say is true and that is part of the cultural adjustment. And, while I have had nothing but the best experience with Ecuadorians, there are certainly those who are less well intentioned. Here, I think it is very important to get to know those around you and to ask for recommendations for everything you need. The value of this is, if someone is recommended, you can be fairly certain he/she will treat you well because it is only courtesy to not disappoint the friend who recommended him.

Likewise, if you are recommended, you are expected to be honest and fair and being otherwise would destroy a budding network of friends. It is a good way to start things off and usually ends with good results. But nothing is ever going to fix the timing issue. Ecuadorians cannot be pressured by time, and that does have some very good benefits if you can adjust your thinking. If you are a Type-A or a freak for organization (no negative implications intended), Ecuador is probably not for you. And, for the women, the men here are a bit behind times regarding equality. If you want a husband, you may be better off bringing your own. You know, like a BYOH party. :-)

A comment about cheapness. Like many countries, much comes from China. China stuff is usually not very good. This is not so true in North America, because of the quality control that NA countries impose on the Chinese manufactures. But, here, we just get the cheap stuff. North American brands are highly prized here because of their quality even if they actually are made in China. But, as far as things made in Ecuador, and especially furniture made here, I have seen some very nice stuff. If I see "hecho in Ecuador" I usually am more prone to buy that product and have yet to be disappointed. On the other hand, if it says "hecho in China" it means cheap knock-off at best.

Bob,

I would take a Del Taco over Taco Bell if there is going to be a fast food Taco place here.

Can you tell me anything about cheeses that are readily available? Are they localized? I am assuming there must be goat cheeses?

I need to study some of my physical relief maps versus the political and tourist ones that I have been looking at. Can't find Loja on any of them. I also would like to see and know the provinces (? regions). This would give me an idea of climate , elevations etc.

I am primarily interested in the Coast at this point.

Thanks for your time

Sue

I agree with this lady, enough is enough and with the internet and the sources available these scam artist can be put out of business once and for all.

There's a so called developer David from Salians who claims to be a developer selling his and any other pocket deal he comes across and marks up the prices at least 10% and more..  I advise you to stay away from him and anything he offers to you. I mean anything .. If its a service, property, advice stay away from it..

I will posted his first name the rest will come clear,

suefrankdahl wrote:

Can you tell me anything about cheeses that are readily available? Are they localized? I am assuming there must be goat cheeses?

Ahhh, cheeses. Yes, some are very localized. The cheese in Loja tastes different than the cheese in Cuenca. I am talking about the local cheeses, white and not aged - reasonably mild. Ecuadorians love their cheese, especially their own local variety. Bread and cheese is a breakfast favorite for the family I live with. But, I am drawn to more tangy cheeses. Cheddar is available but it is mostly rubbery and lacks any tang. Feta is also very mild here. But I know a goat herder up near Cuenca who sells most of his goat milk to an expat who makes goat cheese. So, there is must be some decent Feta in Cuenca.

The SuperMaxi in Loja was carrying an interesting brand of imported Swiss Cheese for a while and I was probably their most avid customer (but maybe the only one). I have not seen that cheese now for about three months. But, things do come and go at SuperMaxi and maybe next month it will appear again. I tried the parmesan cheese. It looked pretty good but had almost no flavor. I guess I am going will have to put extra sharp cheese on the list of things I miss. The one bright spot is blue cheese; no problem there so you can make a very nice salad dressing. And, SuperMaxi carries an incredible olive oil-based mayonnaise that makes the perfect (and healthy) base for many of the most common salad dressings.

suefrankdahl wrote:

I need to study some of my physical relief maps versus the political and tourist ones that I have been looking at. Can't find Loja on any of them. I also would like to see and know the provinces (? regions). This would give me an idea of climate , elevations etc.

Wikipedia is actually a pretty good source of information on cities and provinces. Here is a link to provinces in Ecuador (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provinces_of_Ecuador). You can also link to the cities listed on this page. map.google.com is good for finding cities and the satellite view is interesting to get a little idea of elevation. Maps also has a mode to see local pictures: kinda fun.

Climate information is notoriously wrong. Don't trust most of the reported weather conditions on the Internet. Ecuador is filled with micro-climates, so places within 15 minutes of each other can vary considerably in climate. Makes accurate reporting challenging. Here is just a brief and very generalized overview of weather:

Quito weather is normally in the 40 to 70 range (F). Cuenca ups that a little. Loja a bit more. Vilcabamba and Malacatos raise that to 60 to 80 range and is just about the most perfect weather. Of course, there are seasonal variations but temperature in most places is almost never in the 90s or in the 30s. Some of the coast is surprisingly cold, Salinas for example. During the high season, it is wonderful, but there are quite a few months of dreary and cold (50-60s). Heading north on the coast brings milder temperatures but more humidity. In the inner coastal regions, the humidity is quite high. But one city in the higher costal area, Zaruma (not to be confused with Zamora), while quite small is a fascinating town and perhaps my favorite. More humidity than Loja, but warmer. Santo Domingo (east of Quito) seems like an interesting place also, but I have never been there: higher temperatures but also higher humidity.

My overall opinion (yep, just an opinion) is that Cuenca is the best place for expats: reasonable weather, great expat support, and there seems to be a very good relationships between Cuencians (I made that up) and the expats (for the most part). Also, good cultural diversity and activities. Beautiful botanical gardens. Nice symphony. Great health care.

One would choose elsewhere only for some specific reason. The coast, for example, because they want to be near the ocean. But they will have to give up the charm of Cuenca, and the abundance of American-trained doctors. It is hard to know, but after doing some research and then visiting, you will know which place is best for you. Just plan on spending a bit of time in each place you are considering. A day or two will tell you nothing. Even a week is a bit short.

ooops,
that's maps.google.com

I really love  IN N OUT Burgers!

I love traditional Ecuadorian food (Seco de pollo, yum!) but about once a month I crave a big, juicy burger too ; )
Just an fyi..There is a Carl Jr.s at the El Paseo Shopping Mall in La Libertad that has the BEST burgers...even better than the Carl Jr.s in the States! Always made to order, hot and fresh. Wonderful fries and their hand-dipped shakes con crema (hint of coconut?) are delicious.

Dr.Bill,

I've not yet "enjoyed" my new country (I'm scurrying about the internet getting up to speed on Ecuador), so my comment(s) are based upon what little common sense I have the info I've gleaned from all over the place, but specifically this forum/blog.

Those who know say that 1 week is the absolute minimum stay to get a decent feel for a new town/area in Ecuador.  I don't know when you were in Cuenca or if you were able to determine how "representative" your weather was of typical conditions there ...  Although the temps don't vary all that much at the equator, they still have two seasons, the wet and the dry, presumably due to ocean currents and prevailing wind conditions.

Although you're the judge on what works for you on a day to day basis, it's likely worth another visit in the best part of the year in order to form your own 2nd opinion on Cuenca and enjoy the city for a "vacation".

   Carlos   aka "ElGringoBueno" 

PS  I would also appreciate a wee bit warmer climate than what Cuenca appears to offer, but the coast might offer a bit too much warmth for me to sleep comfortably at night.

PPS  I believe it is Samuel Clemens (aka Mark Twain) who has been consistently and "erroneously" credited with the famous comment ... "the coldest winter I ever spent was summer in San Francisco".

The coldest summer I ever experienced was at Fort Ord just south of San Francisco.  I have had much warmer winters in many other places.  The damp was a big factor.  Guard duty at night with a field jacket and full wool underwear was miserable.  Much colder than winters up here in the Pacific Northwest.  I can't imagine that Cuenca would be as cold as SF.  Looking forward to seeing how Cuenca compares.

Although Cuenca is only approx 300 miles (as the crow flies) from the equator, it is at an elevation over 8,000 feet and the Andes create their own weather pattern just like Mt Hood east of Portland.  Even on a summer day, you're likely to see clouds forming/condensing around the frozen peak's glaciers. 

Bbrrr ...

   Carlos   aka "ElGringoBueno"

PS  I just put an alpaca sweater on my "shopping list" for my first visit to Otovalo ...

I lived in SF for several years in the 70s-80s. Although it was certainly cold at times, what got to me was going long periods of time without seeing the sun. Overall, I liked the climate there.

And speaking of microclimates in Ecuador, the same is true in the Bay Area: I remember being in the valley east of Oakland once, and on returning to SF I had the AC on in my car. When I crossed the mountain into Oakland, I turned the AC off and opened the windows. As I got close to the bay, I rolled the windows up, and as I crossed the bridge, I turned on the heat. That was a less than one-hour drive.

I guess what I'd be most intersted in would be the Italian cheeses. My favorite and love to cook. Mozzerella is mild. Definitely need romano or parmesan or some of the flavorful hard cheeses. Also ricotta which is essentially cottage cheese. Probably easy to make. Read about a Kraft project in Nepal where the locals were taught how to make cheese.

Extra sharp cheddar I would surely miss. In Oregon where I live now  it is quite good (aged over two years) Kind of spendy. Sometimes I buy medium or sharp and let it age in the frig.

Having come from New England love Vermont cheddar. There are hardly any cows left there so I'm sure it is super expensive. Have you ever had Ben & Jerry's ice cream?

I'm not sure which university in Washington State makes a cheddar called Cougar Gold to raise funds for a sports team. It comes in a tin and once opened needs refrigeration. Tried in once but I guess I was turned off by the tin.

Have been told that Cuenca is a good place to start for the reasons you've mentioned. I worry how I would do with an elevation of 8K feet. Their are plenty of mountains in Oregon but none that high to my knowledge. Although I live in a micro climate now, Willamette River valley with wonderful fresh produce 4 or 5 months a year. Vineyards here on their way to becoming world class. Really would like being near the ocean. Boats water, beaches conjure up great vacation memories for me. Also ten years in an Alaskan fishing village. Beautiful but way too isolated and remote for me now. Wildlife was incredible-up close and personal- blue egrets, minks, deer, wolves, eagles, otters, seals, sea lions, humpback whales and black bears. That was the  only animal that truly terrified me and they generally don't attack humans. Merely a problem because they ate our berries and got into the most fortified gardens.

I am really a foodie, love to cook am so sorry I got this fast food thing started. Had another BK whopper Jr meal today because it only takes two minutes to get there, too hot to cook and didn't feel like washing dishes.

suefrankdahl wrote:

I'm not sure which university in Washington State makes a cheddar called Cougar Gold to raise funds for a sports team.

Given the name, it would be WSU (if it were UW, it would be Husky Gold).

It appears there are cheeses in Ecuador, but that I'll have to adapt to new varieties. I like sharp cheese, and it sounds like that might be a problem there. Oh well.

Here in the Philippines, it seems the locals don't eat cheese at all. Very little selection (the only cheddar is mild) in stores, even those that cater to expats -- and very high prices (because it's all imported, and because they can get it).

I've been reduced to eating Cheez Whiz. I never thought I would sink so low.

BobH-

I think a large proportion of asians are lactose intolerant, which would make cheese a no go. Dairy products are just not part of their traditional diet. Dairy animals are not a part of their traditional livestock either.

I found plenty of cheese in Ecuador, even if most of it is some kind of queso blanco or faux mozzarella. Just gotta look around a bit.

I've lived on bread and cheese all over the world in countries where I disliked/distrusted the local foodstuffs. I ate plenty of decent bread and cheese in Ecuador--fruit, seafood, bread, cheese--what more do you want from a food supply? Ecuador had it all.

Don't remember seeing canned spray cheese though....

gardener1 wrote:

I think a large proportion of asians are lactose intolerant, which would make cheese a no go. Dairy products are just not part of their traditional diet. Dairy animals are not a part of their traditional livestock either.

I don't know about lactose-intolerant, but you're quite right about the general lack of dairy products.

When I first noticed the situation, it struck me (as you note) that it is common in Asia, apparently. I don't recall much, if any, cheese usage in any of the Chinese, Korean, or Thai food I've eaten.

I think that starch is a big part of diet in some poorer or less developed countries.It fills the belly and protein is limited and more expensive. Fish in general is probably a better protein source than red meat which North Americans eat too much of. I am a good cook too. Can herbs and spices be grown or purchased dry in markets?

Joseph K wrote:

LOL
French toast with real maple syrup. What I wouldn't give for that!

Joseph,
Come to Cuenca, go to San Sabas for breakfast, and order the Cinnamon French toast.  Forget the Maple Syrup, this is so decadent, you won't miss it, smothered in cinnamon frosting. If you can eat the whole order, I'm buying.
Neil

Bob,
I'm sure due to transportation issues, the stores carry different inventory. Just a case of logistics here in Ecuador, but.... I find at Super Maxi here in Cuenca, some of the best Bleu Cheese I've ever had. In the meat/ deli section, it is branded: Rosenborg. Excellent cheese. I  have also found a very good medium sharp cheddar at SM. It is: Gonzalez, and comes wax encased. I am aging a wheel right now to see if it sharpens.
Now, take my word as a guy that grew up next door to Wisconsin, this is some pretty good cheese, and I'd put it up against any number of Midwest cheeses.
Now, where do I find decent sour cream? < I found some " sour cream", no body, like yogurt >
Cha Cha
Neil

ZenSPIKE wrote:

Now, take my word as a guy that grew up next door to Wisconsin, this is some pretty good cheese, and I'd put it up against any number of Midwest cheeses.
Now, where do I find decent sour cream? < I found some " sour cream", no body, like yogurt

The Philippines has runny "sour cream" too.

Just thinking of the trips we used to make to Wisconsin Dells makes me hungry. We would always stop on the way up to get snacks (I love cheese curds), and on the way back to buy a good stock to take home.

Hi there, I appreciated your response to this article....nice and level headed. Dave & I live in Bahia de Caraquez, Ecuador for a little over two years now...Dave sells Real Estate and I manage a few condos for rent. We can be contacted at [email protected] ...a straight forward approach to rentals and RE here on the coast. Miriam Weaver

Cool your jets, Whytehorse.
You are getting excellent feedback from responders to your rant, I mean post.

And if you call yourself Stinkville, speaks a lot about your outlook. Reminds me of the cartoon character walking around with the cloud over his head.

For those of you who responded to the rant, thanks for offering your perspective as I found your info valuable. The idea about renting first is great. Cuenca, for example has several "gringo" nights, where expats get together to talk about everything, great opportunity to pick other's heads about real estate, for example.

And that is the purpose of the forum, IMHO. After living in Colombia and Peru, Ecuador is an incredible delight in many ways: breakfast on the coast, lunch in the mountains and dinner in the Amazon. Amazing.

Bueno suerte a todos

I've lived in Costa Rica and now live in Ecuador;  I totally understand your frustrations!  I'm sorry that you've given up on Ecuador, as it's a really special country if you can dodge those wolves in sheep's clothing!

Here's a post that compiled feedback from many people, and perhaps it will help others dodge a few of those wolves!

RED FLAG - It'll never happen to me

(PS: I know Dave and Miriam who replied to this topic, and they're great people!)

Z

I think there are a lot of good points made by most of the people posting on here.  What I don't understand is why people have to get personal and mean.
I sympathize with whytehorse because I have made plans at the beginning of the year and see those plans slipping away because of American greed.  American greed is one of the major reasons I plan to move Ecuador upon retirement.  I applaud whytehorse for shinning a light on the Americanization of Ecuador.  However, I now avoid advice from expats in Ecuador and have made many Ecuadorian friends.  Of course it is foolish to generalize but I will say in my experience Ecuadorians has been overwhelmingly positive.  I have found my community and my affordable places which will remain between me and my Ecuadorian friends.
Beyond that it is such a beautiful country and the culture is so rich (no expats not $$$) that even if the cost of living were the same as where I currently live I would still move there.
And to contribute to whytehorse's objective here is one person to avoid - Dom Buonamici.

whytehorse wrote:

To be honest, I think I would hate Ecuador if I had to live there always watching my back so I don't get stabbed by all the house-bubble-flippers whose sole purpose in life is to rip off retirees for a quick buck. Never knowing who you can trust, people always trying to sell you insurance or some get rich quick scheme like selling junk on amazon or some lame ass health spa. haha

Yes, Whytehorse has made a few good points. But, I think it is comments like the one she made above that have a few people up in arms. This statement is completely devoid of any grasp of what it is like to live in Ecuador, and has a tone of bitterness. I wish Whytehorse well, but I definitely take issue with some of the things she has said. This blog should and does have room for disagreement, but blatant distortions do are not productive or helpful to anyone.

Good point Joseph K.  Thanks for the words.  I'd be less than honest if I didn't say I too have experienced bitterness over deluge of contacts from ex-pats in the game for money (house flipping).  But I keep it to myself and have overcome most of it by keeping in mind the idea of retirement is to escape the rat race rather than be a part of it.  Bitterness will keep you in that race for sure.  I am so looking forward to my new life in Ecuador.
Thanks again.

Joseph K wrote:

Yes, Whytehorse has made a few good points. But, I think it is comments like the one she made above that have a few people up in arms. This statement is completely devoid of any grasp of what it is like to live in Ecuador, and has a tone of bitterness. I wish Whytehorse well, but I definitely take issue with some of the things she has said. This blog should and does have room for disagreement, but blatant distortions do are not productive or helpful to anyone.

I really don't mind if someone like this decides - without visiting a country - that it's "not for them". There are enough bitter old expat retirees who after a few drinks go on about how much they miss home, how much better it is than where they are now ...etc. We certainly don't need someone who's bitter even before they arrive!

suefrankdahl wrote:

What kind of cheese do they have?

There's a lot of mozzarella and strange, peasant cheeses that are sometimes sour or very salty. Cheddar is hard to come by, as are many high end cheeses. I actually gained weight when I came here, but I'm sure that's not the norm.