What is your idea of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia?

People seem shocked that I haven't suffered 'culture shock.'  Maybe it's because I'd been off-handedly gathering info on life in the Middle East for several years (I'm very interested in traveling, geography and the world at large )

Also, I think if you are coming here single, as I have--knowing nobody and having no connections--you have to be capable of amusing yourself.  If you're the type who needs constant activities and outside stimulation, you'll end up being a mall rat, buying things you don't need just to have something to do(but maybe this only applies to women?).

Ummm.. what was the question again? 

now there's a positive and excellent advice for anyone coming this way (or any other way for that matter) gathering info on life where ever your headed, save you aloo~oot of trouble.. and shock

Thanks again Alli.


Salman

Hello guys!!
Thank you very much for being here and for giving information to the people who just get lost concerning this very specific country! I have never been to KSA, I may go, and I am a bit afraid of changing the way of life I am used to. I have travelled to many places, I have worked in Dubai, but still, this place cannot be compared. wearing Abayat has never been a problem to me as I live in a muslim country and we have similar cloths,but being afraid of having a coffe with a male mate, as it may be considered as an undisciplined behavior. Public life seem to be extremely hard! So where is the truth??

The image people have of saudi is a dark one, it's not because of religion but rather because of mentality, the way things are interpreted!

AOA. For me once i came here i did that with clean sheet of paper. I expected nothing. Its because i think that every individual is uniquely different. We all have different perceptions. We come from different cultures. And most of all we all have different experiences. So i will make my own judgment.
Till now....i am ok. The place is nice and clean. People seem to be minding their own business. They are nice enuff and have tried to help me...especially when i have tried to communicate with them. I don't know any spoken arabic and every person whom i have talked to has tried his best to understand me and whats more....has managed to speak at least one word of my own language "Urdu"!! I do have some teething problems here...like i don't have a car yet...or before that even a driving license...or a house (my family is living in hotel)....and most importantly a maid for my kids because my wife and i both have to work....still there is mental peace.
So this is what i have to say....till now at least!!
See ya!

Oh...i forgot my one bad experience...the Mobily wireless broadband device...i don't know what to do with it...its impossible....the wireless network in my hotel is far better. I guess i shud better be a man and take the loss of my 275 SAR:o Ouch!!

The mobily might work in your new location.  I know people who have this and they love it and use it all over Riyadh.

A suggestion:  You might want to uninstall/reinstall the software that came with it and see if that helps.

Best of luck.

I am usimng a 512KB ADSL connection from Afaq Shamel porovided by STC and its working extremely well for four concurrent users at home. Costs only SR 149 per month. Free Modem and Installation.

Well, I am a citizen so I cannot complain about it ... lets see what are the ideas here...

Interesting topic! I am excited to know the good and bad side of it.

Hello!

I am a Filipino orthodontist who worked in the KSA from 2005 -2007.

It is only now that I realized I should chronicle my experiences there to shed light on some of the dark views.

I had quite a good adeventure there, meeting people of nationalities I used to read only in the bible, learning from them and appreciating their culture. It takes an open mind and an adventurous spirit to live and work in the kingdom. Avoid judging them and their culture.

I appreciated the chance of being there actually.

Enjoy the read
  http://favoritequeendom.blogspot.com/

Wow! Simply fabulous stuff Melanie. Thanks very much for the Blog. It is very illuminating for many expats who wanna come and live and work here. Thanks again. God Bless

HehaHahaha

Thanks for the comment sourire

Salman

souire, how long did you live (or have you lived) in KSA ?

Its better to have an o[pen view of everything, especially for those who are planning to come and live/work here... Truth is essential even if its bitter

Here's the way I see it:

when you are referring to 'the Saudi's,' you are referring to the government.  The government is not the people.


I am always happy when people differentiate between the American government and the American people.

That said .. it's easy to paint this country as black and white.  But it's much more complex than that.  The Saudi's I've met are smart, fun, intelligent.  They are caught up in this culture--of course--and while they embrace some of it, there are things they want to change (but they've had to learn how to live within the system, for obvious reasons).

Things are on the upswing, however. King Abdullah is a visionary who is trying to implement change here.   Just google 'KAUST' and you'll see what I'm talking about.

And as for what people tell you, it's easy to zero in on the unpleasant aspects.  But the way I view it is I knew what I was facing when I came here and gave it a LOT of thought as to whether or not I could handle it.  If a person came here after KNOWING the situation and is bitching about it.. well, shame on him/her!

And one other thing:  some of my western colleagues seem to face an ethical dilemma; ie. being here, working, accepting money seems to condone this system.  I look at it another way, however.  I am confident,outgoing, friendly, look people in the  eye, shake hands, etc. .. and like to think that my example may in some way influence the women I come in contact with (maybe I'm dreaming lol).

Cheers!

Having lived and worked in KSA for 30 years, as a South Asian expat professional, I have to say that, all in all, life has been fantastic here. No doubt there have been the hard times, managing the beuracracy, fighting with the HR people for various contractual obligastions and rights, dealing with elements who seemed to think that we live on trees back home, etc etc in addition to some of the best of times meeting and knwoing some wonderful Saudi family friends over time and living a life of peace and comfort here. I have no regrets coming to live and work here and I will recommend it to anyone who has an open mind and has the patience, courage, and common sense of learning to live with others in a peaceful and harmonious manner.

I have never had any difficulty with the Saudi guys who used to work for me in every place I was employed. Eevery single one of them is my close friend today and some have even helped me to meet others who have been beneficial to me in my private IT consulting work today.

I think we face the same dilemma that we would face in any corner of the globe dealing with people of different ethnicities, groups and mindsets. Its all a matter of managing oneself and managing others along the way.

I read a great paperback in the 70's before coming to live here toityled "IM OK YOURE OK" written by Dr Harris MD and that gave me some great insight on how to deal with people effectively. I would recommend that read for anyone today too. Its available at Jarir Bookstore and also Al-Shegrey.

I love the idea of people who actually lived or are living in KSA can share so many information about a country foreigners (specially Westerners) have so many clichés about. It may be a good experience for some, a bad for others, but we only know if we actually set foot in there.
I thank you all for your input, specially Salman's good work.
Eager to learn more :-)

JA.

Sourire,

Your sentiments are well espoused and factual and well taken. Yes, there is a dilemma we all have to face in terms of the many uncertainties that loom in fron of us that can change from day to day. We really do not have much recourse for true justice to be able to confront them. We have to accepot what comes and move on. Thgose of of us weho have connections and are sitting in high places may have some opportunity to seek redress, yet this may not be enough if the confrontation comes from an even higher place. Its the pecking order, stupid!

All in all, oif one chooses to live and work here in peace without seeking confrontation or issues with others life can be quite peaceful as it has been for us over 30 long years in the sands. At the end of the day we choose our destiny with a little help from our Kafeel (Sponsor).

Although I am not a Fencing man, I'd say Touche To You Too Mam~!... Have a great day

I'm loving this

Salman, if you didnt love this you wouldn't be here .....

I guess you got me there

Hello, all!

Well, this is definitely an interesting thread, and so I will dive in. Please (really...please!) feel free to correct me if any of my preconceptions are incorrect.  And I apologize in advance, because I'm certain that some of my assumptions are going to seem downright insulting....or perhaps true. 

First, a bit of background.  I'm an American, red-headed (Muslim, but not a very *good* Muslim) woman.  My husband is originally from Egypt.  When I moved with him to Cairo shortly after we were married, I realized that a lot of the ideas I had at that time (this was more than 10 years ago...I've learned a bit since then) of life in a ME country were wrong, but the culture shock kinds of things that ended up biting me in the butt were things that had never even occurred to me to worry about prior to our moving there.  So now my husband and I, who have been back in the US for a few years, are considering a move to Saudi, as a position with a company that my husband has dreamed of working for has opened up in that country, and it seems that he may be able to take a great career leap in a company he loves...IF he takes the job in KSA.   

I have only one (okay...two) reasons for hesitation. First...(ahem...I hesitate to say this, even anonymously, on the internet, but here goes) every single Saudi man I have ever met (granted, in Egypt, or on a plane to Egypt) was a complete and utter a**hole. Now, I'm sure that not every Saudi man is a jerk, but I wonder whether the extreme separation of the sexes that exists in KSA might make Saudi men completely unable to function around females in anything I, as an American, would consider a normal fashion?  In Egypt, I was usually harrassed every time (yes really, EVERY time over the course of 4.5 years...enough to make one agoraphobic LOL) I left the house(usually mildly, but irritatingly nonetheless)by sex-starved teens and young adults, but it was managable.  But then, Cairo is downright liberal compared to KSA, so I worry that it might be worse if we move to KSA.  (And just for the record, I'm respectable, and I dressed and acted respectably - with the exception of looking people in the eyes when they spoke to me, which is such an ingraind part of my personality that I can't help it - for a Muslim country while I was there...I am just obviously "Western looking", which apparetly many people equated with "probably easy 'cause she's white".) 

My second (much more minor) fear is: Is there anything to do in Riyadh?  Will my life contract down to my home and my children and the occational oh-so-fabulous shopping trip (I'm not a big shopper)?  Or is there some vibrant nightlife (music? dancing? even just karaoke? poetry readings? anything????) that I don't know about? 

Thanks, and again, I'm sorry if I seemed insulting.  But you asked for honesty....

Hey Jezzi,

Here you are again and this time with things I know about!

First off, I've been here for three months--not a long time, admittedly, but I'm on my own (no hubby) so I think I have a good feel for what's going on.

Now... Saudi men.  My encounters with Saudi men have been very positive.  They're gentlemen, polite, sensitive, intelligent.  Now not all, of course (it would be like saying all American men are gentlemen, polite, sensitive, intelligent.  HAH! hehe),
but I can say this of the Saudi men I work with and the one's I've met through my job.

That said, I have been 'hit on' probably half a dozen times, but in a polite, subtle way, in which it was my choice to accept or just play along ('Sure, I'll call you if I ever need help') and never follow through.

Admittedly I'm not a kid so I don't have teenagers harrassing me on the street but the interesting thing about KSA is that you don't spend much time on the street (it's a mobile society, more so that the States, even!) and when you're shopping in a Mall, single men/boys aren't allowed in.  Also, nobody will ever bother you at the food store, for example, because the mutawa (religious police) are sometimes prowling around, looking for offenders

As for life and things to do, that depends totally on where you live.  Western compounds have many activities.  BE SURE you're in a Western compound or you'll be very unhappy (especially since you won't be working and a compound is where you'll be able to make friends).

If this is such a big move in your hubby's career, I say GO FOR IT!  I actually like it here--have experienced no culture shock because I studied up on the place before hand.  Also, I consider myself a learner/observer and so that kind of 'insulates' me and I tend not to take anything personally (I have a 'Murphy's Law' kind of attitude that serves me well hehe).

During the three decades that I have lived and worked in KSA as an expat, in all the three main regions, I have seen most open minded, outgoing, common sense and intelligent women enjoying the following activities amongst the community:-

1. Coffee Mornings
2. Bridge/Scrabble/Mah-Jong
3. Shopping (OF COURSE, should have been #1, but coiming from a man I chose #3)
4. Book Clubs
5. Swimming/Sauna (in Compounds of course)
6. Video Clubs (not so pop anymore after MP3/DVD'
s invaded our lives, used to be a craze in the 80s since we couldnt get the best of movies in the open markets)
7. Group excursions to the Museum and other places of interest (usually done during the day when transporation is available though the compounds)
8. Musical Evenings/Recitals
9. Poetry Groups
10. Charity/Social Service Groups

How much more do you need to survive in the sands, comfortably?

Oooh Oooh A customer!! finally! lolz!

(now you eat your heart out Alie, heeehehehehehehe )


Well, since I'm at office all I can do right now is let ya know I'm coming with a reply soon but I'm coming hehehe..


Salman

So you gave up being a lion so quickly, Salman?

Good--because it didn't suit you

lol

gave up? when was I not a lion?

When is a door not a door?

When it's ajar!

Thanks, guys, for your comments.  From the annoying-men/boys-who-try-to-pick-me-up-in-the-streets standpoint, Allie, it actually sounds as if it may be LESS irritating than life in Cairo was, which comes as a relief.  (You made me giggle a bit with the "I'm no kid" comment, as I am not either.  In fact, by the time we left Cairo, I was a 30-something mother of three and they even tried to pick me up and/or follow me home when I was obviously, hugely pregnant with my son. Idiots. Those Cairo boys are freakin' persistentthough.  )  I loved living in Egypt, but those horny boys were misery-inducing. 

As for things to do, it sounds as if I won't be languishing in the house or at the mall all day, assuming we get into a Western compound, so that'll be good.  Do you think it'll help with the accomodation negotiations that my husband and I are both US citizens?  Or is it unsufferably arrogant to push for specific living arrangements based on nationality (regionality? Westernism?  What the heck DO you call it, anyway?)?  I have hopes that I'll be able to land a job while I'm there (I'm a legal assistant in the field of intellectual property, and I do know a bit about Saudi IP law due to the work that I do here.  Also, obviously, I'm quite knowledgable about US IP law), but I'm not counting on it.  My Arabic stinks much beyond what my husband calls "taxi Arabi", even after studying it for several years.  Apparently, when it comes to languages, I'm not a very good student. 

Also, of course, it's a relief to know that Saudi men essentially sound like most Egyptian men (the bad apples I mentioned before notwithstanding)...decent, kind, and respectful.

And Salman, I look forward to your thoughts and comments.  Thanks, guys!

Hi Again, Jezzi!

I would think your husband's employer is supplying housing???

If not .. this could be a problem for a while.

Your nationality carries no weight when it comes to compounds since most people applying are western.  It's about money!

Problem is, if you read the threads here, that most compounds have waiting lists (I know somebody trying right now to find housing and he's walking into brick walls everyway he turns) and are very expensive (would be esp. expensive for a family because you'd need several bedrooms).

There are many in this forum much more knowledgeable than me and I'm sure they're going to add their two halalas (or three.. or four!).

Salman Omrani wrote:

gave up? when was I not a lion?

Salman,

When you had no Name....

Allie,

Arizona gives preference to Yankees,as I am told. So does Cordobe. Some compounds do have a large number of Lebenese,possibly cos they all like to live together?

Most others do not stress on nationality except that they will always prefer western Caucasians to any others.

I have a few Sri Lankan friends who do live in some of the compounds, from AlHambra, @ 350K SR per annum to Rumaizan @ 55K SR per annum, but they are all holding top jobs in top place.

At the end of the day White wins over everything. Next comes position, salary, and employer, in that order. Then, all the rest are slaves.

HiYA all, Interesting reading I must say, however as a person that are contemplating moving there, besides the obvious seperation of men and woman, I still have no idea of the real culture in KSA. I do realise that its NOT UAE nor Back Home and that as an expat you go to KSA for 3 reasons only. Employement, Experience gained and last but not least the money. I would like to know HOW do you choose these "correct" compounds to live in if most if not all the sites does not even give you enough info to choose a decent place to life much less if its and expat compound or not?

well, you can always ask the expats already living around here and see what they have to say about the good ones the cheap ones and the "never ever go there" ones

I don't live in a compound so Im not an expert but surely there are many experienced expats reading this reply that might be kind enough to drop a couple of lines for you.

in the least I can name i few compounds I know of as good ones, but the details .. well you get the picture.

a - Alqorduba
b - Eid Villas
c - AlHamra
d - Alwaha
e - AlYamama


thats in no particular order by the way.

Salman

Here's a list I had handy, which is by no means comprehensive.  The way I understand it, the problem here isn't finding a compound; rather,  it's finding a compound with an opening.

Best of luck!

COMPOUNDS IN RIYADH   

AL HAMRA Tel: 249 0440
(Home of the British School)


AL-ISSA COMP Tel: 491 8400 (Mr Walid) (SR30 to 40,000 rent)


AL JAZEERA BADER Tel: 492 1135 (Milwah Al-Shammry)


AL MOHAEYA COMPOUND (AKA Boeing) Tel: 482 1222 x 403, 410, 111, 666


AL NAKHEEL RESIDENCE Tel: 470 4191 (Peter Howarth-Lees)
(Takhassusi St, Near Dallah Hospital)


AL-OLA #7 Tel: 460 8095 – 460 7704
(Olaya – Abdullah Hamdan St., between Thalateen & Tahliah)


AL ROMAIZON Tel: 274 0917, 488 0533
(Behind Immam University)


AL WAHA GARDEN VILLAGE Tel: 278 8414 x 1149 (Rashid Khan)
(Junction 10)


AL YAMAMAH VILLAGE Tel: 401 2550
(Eastern Ring Road J16)


ARAB INVESTMENT COMPOUND Tel: 482 3444, Fax:482 313169
(Nr Diplomatic Quarter) Rents from RS 65.000 per year


ARABIAN HOMES Tel: 454 1888 (Martin Shaw)
(Prince Abdullah Street, Al-Mursalat)


ARIZONA Tel: 248 4444
(Next to Cordoba Compound)


ASASCO VILLAGE Tel: 419, 9000 or 419 0936 x 423
(Olaya)


CREATORS REAL ESTATE Tel: 478 6708
(Small compounds/individual villas contact: Mr Mahmood)


COFRAS COMPOUND Tel: 478 7434
(J30 Dammam Highway)


CORDOBA OASIS VILLAGE Tel: 248 3471
(Nr British School)


DELTA #1 & #2 Tel: 488 7611 x 245
(Opp. King Saud University)


DHABAB GARDENS COMPOUND Tel: 463 1596 - 462 2392 - 462 6762 - 465 0513
(Elite Villas)


DHABAB GARDEN COMPOUND Tel: 461 1080


DYWIDAG SAUDI ARABIA LTD Tel: 246 4144 x 153 (Mr. Joey)
(Nr football stadium)


EID COMPOUND Tel: 248 3366
(Nr British School)


EURO COMPOUND Tel: 478 0718 – 478 7381, Mobile-  055 27 28 36
(Nr Al Akhariah, contact Mr Nicolas. RS 60 to 65,000)


EXPAT REAL ESTATE Tel: 454 0404 (Mr. Nasser)


FAL COMPOUND Tel: 248 5847 (Larry Heitzman)
(J8 Near Arizona)


GREEN CITY 470 8880 x 411 (Abdul Karim Al-Lahham)
(Prince Abdullah Street, Near Takhassusi (Sheraton))


KINGDOM CITY Tel: 275 0275 (Chuck Collins)
(Next to Kingdom Hospital, Airport Road)


NAJD VILLAGE Tel: 248 1040 x 513 (Ali Askar)
(Near Eid Villas)


RIYADH VILLAGE (AKA PHILLIPS ERICCSON) Tel: 246 4900
(Nr football stadium)


RABWA COMPOUND Tel: 493 1741 (B Lewis)
J13 Eastern Ring Road/Kourais Road


RANCO VILLAGE Tel: 492 4411 (Med Rowlands)


ROC COMPOUND Tel: 241 2800 (Colin)
(Al-Silay, J16)


SAHARA TOWERS Tel: 462 5666
(Olaya)


SAUDI BRITISH BANK Tel: 405 0677
(Behind Al Jazeera Supermarket)


SUMMERLAND COMPOUND Tel: 454 9152
(Old Airport Road, Al-Malik Fahad


VILLAS ROSAS Tel: 482 4417
(Nr Diplomatic Quarter)

Ten starts for that list Allie

Alliecat

I wish I had that list of compounds when I came to the country last summer looking for housing.  Its the most comprehensive list I've seen to date.  Great Job!   

you can still move when your lease expires
nothing is static on planet earth...

Good Share Alliecat THumbS Up!