Introducing myself

Welcome to this wonderful city. I hope your stay here will be enjoyable and memorable.

Hi Aries,
Thank you for the lovely welcome.
I'm not so much a newbie in this great city as much as on Expat.
Wish you a lovely pentek:).
Marko

You must pay taxes after your salaries in HU, that will get you health insurance as well.

Thank you atomheart,
but my salary is not in HU or EU.
I am employed in Serbia, so the only option is to pay health insurance myself

markons wrote:

but my salary is not in HU or EU.
I am employed in Serbia, so the only option is to pay health insurance myself

If you're earning that salary on HU's territory, it's liable for taxes in HU. I suggest you consult a tax specialist, it's cheaper to comply with the law than pay the interest+fines...

markons it is best if you just keep to one thread, not 2, it saves a lot of confusion.

atomheart wrote:

markons wrote:

but my salary is not in HU or EU.
I am employed in Serbia, so the only option is to pay health insurance myself

If you're earning that salary on HU's territory, it's liable for taxes in HU. I suggest you consult a tax specialist, it's cheaper to comply with the law than pay the interest+fines...

It's not as simple as that.   Tax lawyer isn't going to help as actually it's a social security issue.

fluffy2560 wrote:

atomheart wrote:

markons wrote:

but my salary is not in HU or EU.
I am employed in Serbia, so the only option is to pay health insurance myself

If you're earning that salary on HU's territory, it's liable for taxes in HU. I suggest you consult a tax specialist, it's cheaper to comply with the law than pay the interest+fines...

It's not as simple as that.   Tax lawyer isn't going to help as actually it's a social security issue.

It's a tax specialist ("adoszakerto") who can confirm if he's indeed liable for taxes in HU* and as a next step to choose the most advantageous setup under which can pay the taxes and most likely he'd be covered by HU social security in exchange.

*NAV too should be able to confirm his tax liability, but I'd recommend to see a private specialist, he'll save a lot of time and anger.

As SimCityAT pointed out, better to discuss my problems:) in just 1 thread. I have explained my situation in more detail in thread "National vs. private health insurance, Covid coverage, vaccine".
If anyone has useful input, much appreciated.
Thank you all for taking an interest.
Marko

atomheart wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

atomheart wrote:

If you're earning that salary on HU's territory, it's liable for taxes in HU. I suggest you consult a tax specialist, it's cheaper to comply with the law than pay the interest+fines...

It's not as simple as that.   Tax lawyer isn't going to help as actually it's a social security issue.

It's a tax specialist ("adoszakerto") who can confirm if he's indeed liable for taxes in HU* and as a next step to choose the most advantageous setup under which can pay the taxes and most likely he'd be covered by HU social security in exchange.

*NAV too should be able to confirm his tax liability, but I'd recommend to see a private specialist, he'll save a lot of time and anger.

For sure we've got limited information but he says already employed in Serbia and presumably that's where his worldwide income is taxed and  he doesn't live here all the time. So long as he's not here more than 185 days a year, has residence documents and pays there, it's not really a question.

Social Security pillars: Unemployment, Pension and Health

He's only looking at the health pillar contributions. NAV collects the health contribution for voluntary payers but they are only collectors - the Health Fund decides eligibility. 

But if he paid voluntarily in Italy there is a possibility he could get an EHIC depending.

Hi again fluffy,
Yes, you seem to understand my situation quite well.

Anyway, let's move any further discussion and posts to the Forum thread "National vs. private health insurance, Covid coverage, vaccine".
Thanks a lot.
Marko

fluffy2560 wrote:

For sure we've got limited information but he says already employed in Serbia and presumably that's where his worldwide income is taxed and  he doesn't live here all the time. So long as he's not here more than 185 days a year, has residence documents and pays there, it's not really a question.

He also says that he has a registered residency in HU and lives in BP, which have different implications. I won't even try to figure the situation out, maybe he's already consulted a professional and his case is solid. If not, I can only urge him to do so and not rely on the often incomplete and wrong info one can find on the internet...

atomheart wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

For sure we've got limited information but he says already employed in Serbia and presumably that's where his worldwide income is taxed and  he doesn't live here all the time. So long as he's not here more than 185 days a year, has residence documents and pays there, it's not really a question.

He also says that he has a registered residency in HU and lives in BP, which have different implications. I won't even try to figure the situation out, maybe he's already consulted a professional and his case is solid. If not, I can only urge him to do so and not rely on the often incomplete and wrong info one can find on the internet...

I tend to agree. 

Just to say that the way I read his post, he's working and living in Serbia (presumably most of the time and not commuting) and is only in BUD sometimes.

It's a case of YMMV in any government dealings.

To clarify, as to my tax situation, I can work remotely, online... most of the time, I used to be in Serbia, spending some time in BP. But now, I've been in BP for months, not commuting.
Since I earn my salary in Serbia, I pay all my salary-related taxes in Serbia.

I do pay some taxes in HU - I'm renting out an apartment in BP, and for that, I'm paying to NAV and to my local district.

But that's it. I don't see why I'd need to pay taxes to my Serbian salary in Hungary. It is already taxed heavily enough in Serbia:)

markons wrote:

I don't see why I'd need to pay taxes to my Serbian salary in Hungary. It is already taxed heavily enough in Serbia:)

Because of those nasty things called laws... 

I'd recommend to investigate your options, by registering as a freelancer in HU and invoicing your employer you might get away with even less taxes and you'd also get healthcare and other services.

markons wrote:

To clarify, as to my tax situation, I can work remotely, online... most of the time, I used to be in Serbia, spending some time in BP. But now, I've been in BP for months, not commuting.
Since I earn my salary in Serbia, I pay all my salary-related taxes in Serbia.

I do pay some taxes in HU - I'm renting out an apartment in BP, and for that, I'm paying to NAV and to my local district.

But that's it. I don't see why I'd need to pay taxes to my Serbian salary in Hungary. It is already taxed heavily enough in Serbia:)

That's more complicated. 

If you paid there, then they should give you a tax certificate at year end which shows how much you paid in Serbia and you can use that to offset any claims HU has.   

The DTA (Double Taxation Agreement) is the reference point. 

Generally the rule is that more than 185 days in a country, you're resident (that's an OECD rule all the EU signed up to).

So if it's more complicated than the basics, you really need a professional.

I see... Really had no idea things are as complicated as this.
I will ask around to see if I really need to pay some HU tax (doesn't make sense, but then what does?).
Thank you guys for some really good and eye-opening insights.
Marko

markons wrote:

I see... Really had no idea things are as complicated as this.
I will ask around to see if I really need to pay some HU tax (doesn't make sense, but then what does?).
Thank you guys for some really good and eye-opening insights.
Marko

You might not owe them anything as the taxes were paid in Serbia.   There may be an adjustment one way or the other or there may be none.   It's not possible to elect to pay a lower amount elsewhere. 

The DTA is guidance to decide where the centre of your vital interests are - family, house/apartment available for your use etc., these point to residence.   There's a hierarchy of tests.  DTA can also allow a country to "claim" you as theirs.   It's relatively subjective and can be challenged depending on circumstances. 

Best to get advice.  I only have general knowledge from international working and past experiences.  Specifics about here and there can only be answered by a professional.

I see, thanks fluffy for elaborating.
In that case, I'll be seeking professional help:)))

How this bureaucracy is complicating people's lives...
You find yourself possibly owing money to yet another country without even knowing it!

markons wrote:

I see, thanks fluffy for elaborating.
In that case, I'll be seeking professional help:)))

How this bureaucracy is complicating people's lives...
You find yourself possibly owing money to yet another country without even knowing it!

You might not owe anything.  Bear that in mind! 

You could just do nothing but if they catch up with you, it would be a problem.

Hi all,
I have checked the Double Taxation Treaty, in my case between HU and Serbia, and as far as I understand, income tax is payable only in the country which is the center of personal and economic interests.
Hopefully my understanding is correct - that I need Not pay the tax in HU after already having payed it in Serbia.
I will still ask a professional to confirm.
Thanks

I must admit, I did not look between Hungary and Serbia, but generic rules must be the same. The question is really what are income taxes (or not). In certain countries (Netherlands, Luxembourg, etc). a big part of your liabilities are not per say income tax (capital gains are also a very serious concern).
Under normal circumstances (in the year of moving) you can opt for taxation partially in the country you left and you are going to. But also you can opt (provided you live more then 180 days there full tax there). Hungary has a flat rate, possibly Serbia as well. HOWEVER eg Health care is another topic.

We moved from Netherlands to the UK to Luxembourg and to Hungary (In the process we saved EUR 50 k on taxes). Planning and knowing helps. Eg in the Netherlands a part of salary was paid late (if you can reclassify you do not pay taxes at all).

Bottom line I am pretty sure you can make some savings in the year you move, outside that is difficult. BE CAREFUL with Capital gains.

Tax is a tricky topic, but you can also save is my experience.

In general I have to say, plan taxes before moving not after (again when mentioning taxes I do not only mean income tax, but also property tax, health care, other)

Perhaps one funny old rule as sidenote, when I worked in the UK as an expat you did not have to pay income taxes (rule changed in the meantime) on the part you were in business trip (I can tell you I went on a lot of business trips at the time (GBP 100 net extra per day just for spending time outside the UK (also employer paying for all (trip/hotel/breakfast/dinner)).

Learn the rules and use them is what I want to say. (The unfortunate thing I spent most on early retirement). Still if the money is there why not take it.

Double taxation treaty is just a minor part, look at other things is my main message.