Moving to Mons, Belgium - Salaries and taxes

Hi Morti,

I'm also a Spaniard living in Belgium, and I could tell you that those 32k can easily become 1400-1600 monthly + two payments of 1k (may and december). The taxes are so incredibly high that a lot of people consider going into a career in Unemployment since they don't pay so much (not joking). (Consider price of life, Brussels may be approximately as expensive as Madrid)

As for an experienced engineer with more than 5 years of experience, you should ask much more. I was offered that amount with less than one year of experience when I arrived.

Also, ask about the other benefits like: Company Car + Gasoline Card(MANDATORY!!!), Hospitalization Insurance, Food checks, pension programme...

Most of the consultant companies offer those packages in order to relief the Pain in the A*ss (uppercase) that the taxes produce.

In this link (votresalaire.be/main) you can find a small survey that can statistically tell you how much would earn somebody with a similar qualification as you.

Last, but not less important: Here it rains all the time. And when it doesn't rain, it's just cloudy; so if gray days make you sad, think about it... (I'm considering coming back to Spain every time I come from holidays)

Good luck!!

Hi Hoosema,

Thanks a lot for your answer. I have to negotiate yet with HR because that was the numbers that the recruiter told me, and I think (I hope) that's for a junior technician, as they want to prove me with junior qualification to start.

I've read about the taxes issue in Belgium, could you tell me more or less the difference between Spain's taxes? (As you know, we have the IRPF taken out from our payment and tax declaration every year, which people usually leaves that to an accountant in order to pay less)

About those benefits you say, they are great, but, it is really common there? Does that happens only in certain companies?

I've tried to do the survey you linked but is not "small" hehe and there are lot of things in French I don't understand so maybe I'll try again later with more time available.

About the weather, is something that I don't mind (I think, but you never know), my goal is to acquire experience in a big company outside Spain, and I hope they offer me more than that because I'm trying hard to know how to pay the living there

Thank you very much!

Hi again!

Considering we both are Spaniards we could continue the topic in Spanish, but doing so would keep uninformed other foreign expats who may be interested, so... back to English!

About the money, if it's for a junior engineer it's a normal salary. Consulting companies offer also the benefits like car and gasoline because that way we can easily move to diferent clients more independently. I don't know if other companies offer that. A friend of mine from my university is living in Hasselt (flemish part) and he didn't get car nor gasoline card. However, he got the appartment paid (and what appartment!).

One important point is where are you going to live: If  you decide to move to Mons (city itself), you won't have any problem, and maybe a bike or a bus in rainy days would solve the problem of commuting to the office. However, Mons is in the Wallonian Region and they are frenchspeakers. For sure at the office you won't have any issue, but in daily life a basic French level would save the day!

On the other hand, if you decide to live in Brussels (international town, less Belgians there than any other nationality...) you should know that it's 80 km. away from Mons and that having a car would save you from the railway system and their unexpected strikes. (Just giving you reasons how to defend your position when negotiating car+ gas )

About the food expenses: they can offer up to 200 euro per month tax free as a help to eat outside. These may be given either by direct transfer to bank account or with checks called "cheque-repas". These checks are used as a method of payment in plenty of restaurants, bakeries, friteries, and even in big surfaces (carrefour) when paying for food.

TAXES! Argh!
The taxes are deducted directly from your salary, if you are single without kids, 2500 euros can go down to 1500/1600 euros. After this, every year the tax declaration should be filled. This is quite easy here, considering the case you don't have too many properties or anything to worry about, you would only declare your salary as source of income; and this information will also be given by your company! They normally refund!

For example: on may-june 2010 I did the tax declaration for the year 2009, and I will receive my money back on february/march 2011... did anybody say bureaucracy???

About bureaucracy: Get ready for it!! You will have to register into a district or community, (police will go and check that you live there). They will give you the "attestation de Resicence", a temporary paper until you get the resident card. This card will be necessary for almost anything you have to do in Belgium, but it will take a while in receiving it, so keep the attestation in a safe place for all the other bureaucratic procedures.

I think I wrote already too much and I don't want to scare you. True, bureaucracy is a pain in the ass, but I can't compare to Spanish one because I've never suffered it, maybe both are the same thing.

Good luck!!

Hi Hoosema!

Truly you are a great source of information Thank you very much!

I've just arrived at home from my holidays and read your message. I'm still in the hiring process of this company so I can't tell what they are going to offer at last if I'm selected at the end.

It seems that the tax system is similar to Spain, higher, but very the same, so I don't think it's going to be a problem.

About the language... well I don't know anything but a few words in French but I think it is a matter of time and practice once there

Finally, let's see what time tells and if everything goes well, I'll invite you a drink!

Thanks!

Hello, I see you are such a great source of information... would you share about the tax system some information, as far as % of the salary? I am in the process of considering a position, if it is with a salary of about €XK/month I was told that combined the tax and the social security taxation would amount to about 43%, which to me just seems a lot. No kids, but a spouse only. Also they did confirm that will pay 13th pay check in December and 0.97% holiday check in May, "meal checks" up to €6/day if I pay €1 for daily meals, and 80% of the cost for metro for my daily commute to work. Thanks in advance!

Hi! Your calculation about the 43% may be accurate, that's more or less what they take away from me. At least, that was the case when I was on my own. Now that I'm officially living with my girlfriend, there is an administrative figure similar to the marriage that allows you to be less taxed every month. This is, keeping the same brutto amount per month, getting more netto. I still have to check this new situation, because it is quite recent to me. When I have some info I will post it here.

Yes, about the December and May payments this is usual here. The meal checks are a good tool because they can be used in plenty of places, not only company restaurants, but also big commercial centers, etc...

Normally for consultants that have to move around belgium, they provide car + gasoline. In case you're going to live and work in Brussels, the help for the metro is REALLY valuable, since trying to move with the car during the weekdays around the town is HELL.

I hope this helps,

Best regards!!

Thank you Hoosema!!! How is the cost of living on the east side of Brussels, or more like around 1200 & 1950 zip codes?

Yes, I would be very interested to know what would be the difference in the net if we are talking about a couple/family of 2 only?!

What would be the cost for the public transport in Brussels would you know that?
Thank you so much for all the info, it is all helpful.
Best regards!!!

Hi again!
Well, the east part of Brussels (Woluwe-Saint Lambert, Woluwe-Saint Pierre) are two of the most expensive areas, but they are the nicest, without the problem of dangerous neighbourhood so common in other distrits. But of course, that has to be paid somehow: the prices are higher.

I don't know exactly what kind of apartment/studio/house you're looking for, but before addressing to immobiliary companies, try in these sites online. People post their offers and they are quite popular amongst people who look for apartments/cars/goods/etc...
immoweb.be/en
vlan.be/en/index.php

If you don't find anything there, the best way to find something is by walking around the streets where you are interested to live, since normally, owners post the advertisements by the doors/windows of the offerted apartments.

About the prices: it depends of the street, of course, if you get an apartment in Tervuren the cost will increase very strongly, while in some little street few squares from there prices would be more reasonable.

Normally, if you rent, you have to pay the flat rental, plus charges, normally comprising water, heating, communitary expenses. The electricity can be arranged via Electrabel, and the subscriptions for TV/Internet/Phone may vary depending on the side of the town you are (you know this issue between flemish and walloons...)

About the public transport, if you are going to use it for every day (to job) it is already worthy to take a monthly subscription, or even a longer term.
In Belgium, if you do something just once, you'll pay a lot for it!!
Example of the tickets:
1 ride ticket  = 1.70 Eur
10 ride ticket = 12.30 eur (already 47 cents of discount per ticket)
1 month subscription = 45 Eur (If you use the public transport extensively, this is your choice)

This is the website of the public transport in Brussels
stib.be/index.htm?l=en

Hope you can find the info you need!!

Best Regards, and good luck!!

Wow, thank you so much for the fast reply!!!!! Very useful information, and highly appreciated.

hoosema wrote:

In Belgium, if you do something just once, you'll pay a lot for it!!
Example of the tickets:
1 ride ticket  = 1.70 Eur
10 ride ticket = 12.30 eur (already 47 cents of discount per ticket)
1 month subscription = 45 Eur

Maybe in Brussels that is true but it is certainly not true of "Belgium"!! Please don't try to give people the wrong idea of the entire country! De Lijn, the company in Flanders, operates at half the price of STIB! A single ride is €1.20 if you buy just the one, but if you buy the ticket of multiple rides (and you can choose how much you want to pay, it only has to be in denominations of .80) it's only .80/use, and that's valid for one hour. These are by far the cheapest public transit tickets I have encountered in all of my travels (which go through 12 countries as yet).
Monthly subscriptions are €27.50, and 78 for 3 mos; I just checked the STIB site the other day and the annual one was like €477, the annual one here (for 25+yrs) is €216!! So, Brussels = expensive, yes, but not all of Belgium.

The suggestion of immoweb is good, though, that's where we found our apartment also.

Half the price in Flanders...
Yeah, you're right. I assume Brussels is much more expensive than other regions because of all the people that come here with paid expenses (read with me: diplomatics, European Union, European Comission...) but I didn't expect such a big difference in prices.

Well, I just showed the prices in Brussels, since it's the area where WorldExpat was interested in:

WorldExpat wrote:

Thank you Hoosema!!! How is the cost of living on the east side of Brussels, or more like around 1200 & 1950 zip codes?

The difference is huge, but it is expected as you noted. Thanks for all the info guys.

I was thinking, are those prices just for a certain line, or just about any line?

Also, what is the cost for the intercity trains or buses and how reliable are they?

I was thinking, are those prices just for a certain line, or just about any line?
Also, what is the cost for the intercity trains or buses and how reliable are they?
Is it common to have to pay 2 months rent for deposit when renting and how common is the practice that the landlord is not an honorable person and does  not return those 2 mo rent as deposit back? Any thought on that?

Also, do you have any experience renting housing on short term basis, like a week or a month only and can you point me to a web site besides those mentioned here?
Thank you in advance.

The line doesn't matter, it's wherever the particular company drives. We linked you to STIB, the main Brussels company; and unless you're going rather far, it will only be for one zone, so the price won't change.

Trains are through B-rail, and Belgium has pretty good prices. Also, the stops are done by zone, not station. So say to go from here to Brussels, you get a ticket from "Zone Antwerpen" to "Zone Brussel," and you can get on/off at any of the stops there. Like you could use it from Antwerpen-Berchem, instead of Central Station, or whatever. And same for the Brussels end, you can use it to go to Brussels North, Midi, or South. The price for that ticket is €9.40, last time I used it; and return tickets from here to Brugge, about an hour and a half ride, is €27. So, not expensive.

I don't recall if we had to do that for renting here, we may have. My husband got the apartment while I was still in the US though so I wasn't around for the initial stuff. Short-term isn't very common, from what we found when we were looking. 3-yr leases are the norm. I know it's available in limited amount but, not very commonly. I definitely do not believe you could rent for a week though, I doubt you could do less than a month. But, it might be possible to find people who are going on trips or whatnot and are looking for someone to live in their place while away. Not sure of sites for it though, aside of checking with folks on couchsurfing.

WorldExpat wrote:

Is it common to have to pay 2 months rent for deposit when renting and how common is the practice that the landlord is not an honorable person and does  not return those 2 mo rent as deposit back? Any thought on that?

Well, hi again!!

This question hit me like a hammer because I've been struggling with the owner lately and I'm mad as hell.

The deposit is normally 2-3months of the rental, but there is a procedure that gives you more guarantees to get your money back at the end of the contract. When you create a bank account in Belgium, they also offer you the possibility of having a shared deposit (shared by the owner and you), this way, the money is only taken when both part agrees, and he can't take the money without your permission. Plus, the interests go to your account when you take it back, and not to the landlord.

I made the mistake of not taking this deposit when I created the bank account and now I'm afraid that I won't ever see my beloved notes anymore :_(

Hi hoosema... sad to hear from you my fear... I guess the practice of not having honorable landlord is common all over the world. Luck is the only help or just knowing the laws and making sure you do not violate them.

Let me know how it goes with your deposit. That is quite of chunk to let it go. I hope you get it all back!

Hi Hoosema, you're like an open book XD !!!

I am Spaniard too, I have right now an offer to go to Brussels and work as a freelance.
They offered me 68000 euro/year, that initially sounded good, even more thinking on the Spanish medium wages, but I saw on more than one web page that the taxes + social security would reach a total of 63% of this amount, so finally it will be no more than 2000 net euro per month.

I work in IT too, as a J2EE Analyst/Developer, and have almost 6 years of experience. Do you think it's a fair amount or it could be not enough for my gilfriend and I ?

Thank you !!

Well, normally Freelance experienced profiles are very well paid, but as you said, the tax level takes a huge part away. This is why people that go Freelance in Belgium tend to create their own mono-personal companies in order to avoid paying so much. For example, declaring the car you use as company car, and the expenses for the gasoline and so on...

But that's the problem here, you will need a vast knowledge in the administrative ways they work and it's a big effort if you're coming from outside.

2000 euro netto per month in brussels may be not worthy doing the change. I mean, I don't know how much are you earning in Spain but I'm sure that after 6 years of experience you're not getting the lowest salary in the market.

In my case, for example, my girlfriend and me live just on my salary, which is 1500 netto + 200 for being assigned to a project (it's like cheque restaurant, 10 euros a day) plus car and gasoline paid by the company.

If the flat (which is more like zulo-studio) takes already 600 euros, you can guess we're not buying a Ferrari, but it's more or less survivable; it depends on the monthly expenses that you have.

My pro-tip is that you check the info posted in the Spanish Consulate/Embassy (useful links) because you may find an administrative/lawyer who knows all the legal tricks and shortcuts of the belgian laws...

Good luck!

Hi again!

I've been out of this blog since my hiring process has been a bit frozen. Now it seems that I'm coming to Belgium for the last interview so there is a chance that I end working and living there.

I've been reading all the posts from this thread and I think (thanks to Hoosema specially ) that I understand the basics of the tax system there.

What got me worried is when the time comes about the salary negotiation...

Is there someone who can shed me some light about what a Senior Datacenter Technician for a big company should ask for income?

35k? 40k?

I don't trust very much places like Glassdoor or Payscale...

Thank you very much!

I'm glad I have been helpful!!

I don't know what to tell you about the salary... Ask for 100k, and then negotiate!!

Hi Hoosema!

It would be very nice to be offered 100k! Let's see what happens first, as I have to travel for the last interview there this week.

Have a nice day!

Shall I assume you are talking about a pharma company? If that is the case for the the type of a position, they should offer you relocation benefits of no less then 5K, at least 45K/yr, transportation cost, + lunch passes, full benefits, such as health insurance, dental, life insurance, holiday time at least 30 days/yr.

Hi all,

It seems that finally I'm moving to Belgium. Now... how do I do the moving? I should take my car there, I can do it by driving, but I would prefer a moving company to do it.

Any reference on moving companies?

Thank you!