Vietnamese wife?

Vungtaudon,
What in my original question did you see as dishonest?

Nothing really, I should have picked my words more carefully

I should have not tried to inject humor perhaps. It was the only thing I can see that might have been misleading..cold shower etc. I'm not seriously in need of a cold shower. At my age I'm lucky to see old Mr. Johnson. Wishful thinking I suppose!!

Really interested in this topic! Although I am not looking for a foreign husband (as I am married) it is great to understand what foreign guys think about Vietnamese wives...

My wife and I met about 5-1/2 years ago online.  From then until now I visited her in Vietnam 8 or 9 times while we tried to get a fiance visa for her.  We talked and saw each other twice a day (morning and night with the 12 hour difference from the east coast of the US) on Yahoo IM.  It was a great way to get to know each other.  She finally arrived in January and we have been married a few months now.  I had my place redone before she came so everything in the kitchen is brand new.  I told her it is now her kitchen.  I feel I am married to my best friend.  We are learning more about each other every day.  I am 66 and she is 43 now.  She knew I was not rich when we met and we shop carefully together to stay on a budget.  She knows I will do the best I can for her and I love the way she cares for me and our home.
I think our relationship is atypical but serves as an example that if you try to get to know each other well before you finally marry you will have a great marriage.  It would be worth the time and effort to go slowly in establishing a relationship.

It's very ironic to know "love" exists between a 71 yo man and a 29 yo girl. I doubt she gives him real respect or honor but sure that she serves/treats him well as she is providing him with "the service" and get money in return.

It is sad that so many women live in such a way to get an easy life and a sex-money exchange is called as "love".

VungTauDon wrote:

He told me that he is under no illusions that she is (or was initially) with him for his money

kiku_hana, I want to emphasize that he felt that this was the way she may have felt initially. I can tell you in all honesty that if you see them together you would know that they love each other. The interaction between them is very nice.

There was a poll I saw one time on the English language Vietnamese news site VietnewsBridge (http://m.english.vietnamnet.vn/) showed that 55% of Vietnamese women between the ages of 21 to 64 were married, not for love, but for money.

I suspect in about any culture one could make an argument that one or both partners got into, stay in a relationship for security reasons. This too translates to money. In most cultures this money comes from the man. I've witness many a marriage between age compatible couples that the only thing that hel them together was money. Love on the other hand is a difficult thing to define, yet pigeon hole into an age category. Like someone else said on here..line up a group of otherwise equal men, and probably a Vietnamese girl would select a vietnamese man. Will she love him any less or more. I suspect that could be a circular argument. But nevertheless it is an valid point the young lady makes. Men look as if they were looking at a hunk of meat at a butcher shop, or so many women feel. Conversely men are looked at as an ATM. Perhaps ALL of this is true, but many a soul can except it and have a wonderful life being used or using, if that is how an outsider views it.
Myself, a man I don't think I could do it in the reverse. That is marry a women much older than I just for the money. Oh I know there a gazillion out there that would sell their soul for money, no doubt.

VungTauDon: If that, I feel happy for them. Nothing is impossible, isn't it?

I don't care how people connect to each other but a relationship should be named as it is. Don't overuse the word "love".

P/S: Unfortunately I don't have much belief in the result of polls conducted in Vietnam. As a Vietnamese woman, I see it incorrect. Vietnamese women get married as they suffer pressure to do it. The pressure mostly come from their family, age and getting babies...

Oh my gosh! If only we lived in a world of utopia. Life is not fair, some get married because they made a mistake and got pregnant, some because their parents put pressure on them, soe because they are lazy. Forbid the idea that anyone can make a choice to marry to someone, love them and devote their lives to them. Some are just so negative that it is wonderful that they remain single maidens for life. They could probably never imagine that if they ever married they could ever just be loved for who they are. There would always be some reason someone forced them into marriage. I think these folks really have had something in their past that makes them so angry.

I am old enough to understand love comes with conditions as it contributes to a guarantee of happy marriage. One of the conditions includes financial security, which its importance can be more or less depending on different people's demand but it should never be a decision factor to marry someone.

Back to the 29 yo girl, she is lucky to have both money and love but not many girls, with the same initial purpose like her, end in happiness. Her case can't be considered as normal. If yes, then many other young girls will choose that way of living and see it normal as they don't know the real value of love and labor.

Kiku-hana,
  I have thought more about your input on this issue, and I apologize for the way I received your input. In my original post I must admit I asked the question based on expat's marrying Vietnamese.
Without consideration of what ladies in your culture may feel about this subject. I must agree it would be terrible to feel some external force making you do anything you yourself did not wish to do. If I hear you right this is what, in many cases is happening. It would give me great pause to consider entering into any such forced relationship. So I thank you for your input. I will make it a point to ask any prospective bride if she feels external pressure to do what she is considering.
Perhaps I'm wrong one the "Love" issue, us men often are, but in my opinion , love is never present at the beginning. The first phase is physical attraction or infatuation. I think as we grow we begin to move toward "Love".
Do you feel that most young Vietnamese bride's are not physically attracted to the person they select? It seems you are saying that it very well could be mom and dad told me to bring in some money. So these women are only in search of money. If this is the case perhaps the love for their parents is paramount to any love with their spouse. So they move forward in the relationship.
If this is true it takes a mighty women to fake it for so many years and be, what by all accounts, are dedicated, caring spouses.
I don't know about the other men on this forum, but I could not pull off such feat for a long period of time. I might be able to fake it for a bit, but long term....!
Again thanks for your wonderful input and by all mean tell us more.

Vietnamese women in general (This is a generalization and not meant to mean all women) are raised in a Confucius or Confucian manner. The woman is to respect and honor her father before marriage, then her husband after marriage, and finally her son after her husband has died. This is a direct link to their Chinese and Buddhist heritage.
To the Confucians, marriage is of important significance both in the family and in society. In the perspective of family, marriage can bring families of different surnames (different clans) together, and continue the family life of the concerned clans. Therefore, only the benefits and demerits of the clans, instead of the individual couples, are concerned in a marriage.

What this means is that the marriage is looked at to see how the family as a whole will benefit not the couple getting married.

That doesn't mean that the couple doesn't love each other (because they have to show an interest in each other to even start the marriage process) but that "real" love is not required.

I knew this would be a great subject. That is very interesting Don. Certainly sheds some light how things evolved. Perhaps the newer more educated thought process of the younger generation has made for an incongruent thinking on this issue . I find the points you made very interesting. Only wish I knew that much about the historical part of it. Thanks

I think Western society places more emphasis on physical attraction than financial security while the Vietnamese culture does the opposite. What culture doesn't want money. Money as bta87 stated is seen as financial security and someone that can take care of themselves and their family.

I'm getting married this January in Vietnam. She's 4 months younger than me. I first e-mailed her last May and despite my tight schedule I had to make a 10-day trip in September to see her in person. I can't marry someone just chatting online. I need to physically see her and give her the opportunity to see me in person as well. So since that Vietnam trip we've been talking on the phone everyday for hours and at least 10 text messages a day. Being apart for 7 months and 9 more months to go until the wedding is unbearable.

So yeah I don't know what love is but we met through family and instantly knew we'd be getting married.  We met through such short time frame but care deeply for each other. She encouraged me to have the surgery done and I did it because I didn't want to worry her sick. So is it love or loyalty? Her playing the role of devoted, caring wife to the husband to be.

Real love

Well...there is no definition of (real) love but it's definitely not a relationship where people put the material aspects above what their emotions/hearts truly want.

Vietnamese women in general are ready to devote the whole life to take care of their family but it doesn't mean that love is not required. Many people get married because of love but sadly after marriage, love fades with time or changes into another form called responsibilities or duties...for their own family, the big families on both sides and even the relatives. Please note that usually Vietnamese men take care of girls very carefully when they are in approach of or in love with them but later, it is women to care for and maintain such relationship. So,
Vietnamese women, though they feel disappointed, unhappy and unsatisfied with the current situation, they still accept it. As VungTauDon said, we are taught to have to respect husbands, mean to tolerate their mistakes. Society is still strict to divorced women.

Physical attraction
Traditionally, intimate actions only happen after couples agree a committed relationship. Many women don't have sex before marriage. This is especially true to the persons who were born in the 1970s or the first half of 1980s and are much affected by family and society's education (prejudices and norms included). It doesn't mean weird or they don't have much demand for sex. It is simply because they grew up together with such an education system.

Family support
It's not obligatory and depends on each family's conditions.
People I know don't have to support their big families. In contrast, it is parents to patiently and unconditionally devote their time and money to their adult children and grandchildren. Family support may be common in villages where parents don't get a pension and can't continue farming when they become old or it is in need if family members are in financial trouble.

@Khanh44: hahaaha...sorry a typo...I corrected already. You dont have to worry now

What I am most interested in reading is the percentage of traditional women against the women with more of a western influence.

My girlfriend has traditions but in no way like some mentioned above. Now I don't feel this relationsghip could of worked if she had a more traditional mindset. Did I just get lucky or is the percentage of more western thinking Vietnamese girls increasing?

Bonesy wrote:

My girlfriend has traditions but in no way like some mentioned above. Now I don't feel this relationsghip could of worked if she had a more traditional mindset. Did I just get lucky or is the percentage of more western thinking Vietnamese girls increasing?

What traditions does she not have (or you don't think she has)and why or what do you feel lucky about?

Bonesy: Yes, Vietnamese young women are more and more open. Sex before or after marriage doesn't mean good or bad, it's simply individual's decision. But don't say you love someone if it's just purely an exchange between sex and money.

As mentioned in a previous post, saving sex for marriage is especially true to the "old" generation of women (8x or 7x). I don't say such women are better or more moral than the others who don't. I just state a fact there exists the generations of the women who were educated strictly that no sex before marriage is used to measure the good values of a woman. So, it's very hard for them to dare to change or overcome such prejudices.

You are not a Viet man meanwhile what I mentioned above belongs to Viet culture and customs.

Reflecting on my previous post I didn't word it correctly (blame it on the lack of sleep recently)

What I'm trying to say is Vietnamese women who look at foreigners as ATM's vs the Vietnamese women who look at foreigners as genuine soul mate/partners.

I have only met a handful of expats (mostly through posters on here) who seem to have found genuine love and companionship with Vietnamese girls. I consider myself one of these lucky people.

The majority of stories I hear with expats with a similar background to myself is they start dating Vietnamese girls and notice after a period of time that their interest is not truly with the man but with his wallet.

In my opinion, the majority of Vietnamese girls who are looking for true love and happiness (the women a lot of expats wish to find) lean towards Vietnamese men because they want security, trust and a safe relationship.

Foreigners are a big risk to them becase..

1. We can be looked at as unstable, we could pack up and leave at any time.

2. Because white skin is idolized (can't think of the right word) we obviously get more female attention. My girlfriend jokes (although I know it does worry her) about if/when we get married and we got older I will just trade her in for a younger model.

3. Life is not easy dating a foreigner as I have learnt and still learning. There has been big tests and challenges in our relationship so far which I feel could have broken a lot of couples.

E.g Me being a bit of a family guy, I've been wanting my girlfriend and I to visit my family for a long time. Although she and my parents talk on skype/facebook I still feel I want there approval which they can only really give by meeting her in person.

For the last 4/5 months we have been battling with the British Embassy trying to secure her a 6 month tourist visa. With all the resources of the internet and experienced heads it still wasn't easy. Her first visa was rejected but luckily the second one was successful (we found out 2 days ago, scheduled to fly to England on the 25th of May).

My girlfriend never imagined that she would ever date a foreigner. She met a lot before me through her line of work but never really batted an eyelid.

She was in a long term relationship with a Vietnamese guy who was a total prick. I feel her experience with him made her more willing to try something different and she gave us a go (after lots of convincing).

It took me at least 9 months to really get her trust and love. She always kept the most important part of her heart close to her as she didn't want the heartbreak she had experienced before me.

If it wasn't for her willingness to try something new I don't think I would even of been able to get her phone number.

I hope this makes some sort of sense. I find expressing my thoughts on this really difficult at times (this has taken me almost an hour to type..) but I really want to share my opinion with others.

Some would say stereotypes exist for a reason. Even then, there are always plenty of exceptions to the rule.

Just to make it simple, let's restrict ourselves to the "white" guy ('cause we know God forbids if we bring home a foreign man of a darker shade). For now, I'm just gonna quote part of an essay that appeared on NY Times' Modern Love column. It's been shared with many Asian girl friends who at one point or another have dated a white guy.

ONE balmy evening in Shanghai, my boyfriend and I were strolling home from dinner when two boozy blond men called to us. Expecting a plea for directions, we stopped. The men leered at me and grinned at my boyfriend.

“Where's the party?” they asked jovially. “You know, Chinese girls. Where can we get one of these?”

They meant me.

My boyfriend cursed at them and held me close as we crossed the street, but I dropped his hand. For the six months we'd been together, we had endured more than our share of stares, from curious to smug to hostile, from Chinese and Westerners and everyone in between. But nothing had been as flagrant as this. Suddenly, I felt as if those men had seen the truth, while what we knew of ourselves was a sham.

He was no longer the boyfriend whose home I shared, the journalist whose dedication and drive kept me inspired, the man who scratched my back through entire seasons of “The Sopranos.” In that moment, he was just a laowai, another foreigner in China taking home an Asian woman like a souvenir.

And I was no longer the girlfriend he loved, the native New Yorker like him, the Chinese-American who had moved to Shanghai on a Fulbright to research a novel, the woman who challenged him on a daily (he'd say hourly) basis. I was just another local naïf, maybe a gold digger, possibly a prostitute.

Bonesy wrote:

What I'm trying to say is Vietnamese women who look at foreigners as ATM's vs the Vietnamese women who look at foreigners as genuine soul mate/partners.

I wouldn't say ATM's. My sister and a bunch of my other cousins born and raised in Canada are happily married to Caucasian whites.

I'm just going to stereotype here and I'm a Vietnamese male btw but some Vietnamese males just give a bad name for all Vietnamese males. They are too possessive, demanding, self-centered and get jealous easily. As you get to the younger generations and move further outside Vietnam these characteristics lessen.

Caucasian whites have a good reputation of being caring, kind and responsible. Not saying all are but so far the bad ones haven't ruined it for the good ones.

I'm what the Vietnamese call a Viet Kieu and part of the younger generation I think. They see me as a money machine also. I know the feeling. I hate being stereotyped too. People will judge but time cures everything. Life is short. Just enjoy it.

khanh44 wrote:

I wouldn't say ATM's. My sister and a bunch of my other cousins born and raised in Canada are happily married to Caucasian whites.

I'm not saying we are all viewed in that way, just introducing the comparitive between those who view us as them against those who don't.

Thought I would join in. I am divorced after being married for 23 years.  I left the USA wanting a change in my life. Dating here is the same, women date men due to some form of attraction rather it be looks, personality or money. When it is about money some take advantage of the situation more than others if you allow it.  I am 53 years old, a little over weight and I am sure that the 26 year old is not interested in my charm.  Accept life for what it is. Just my 1000 dong worth.

Ancient,
  In many ways I think this is the best way tp approach this aspect of life or most others...take it for what it is until it isn't. We can work ourselves into a tizzy worrying that all the stars are aligned, she likes my eyebrows, the way I dress, the way I move on the dance floor. Sure as heck I break my leg and she no longer loves me. I really enjoy this topic and it has brought together so many thoughts.
Perhaps we should start another and let all define 'Love" the definitive version, that is. It has a wonderful ring to it, but what does it mean.

Don,
   After reading your post on confucianism and finding other resources to read on it, I think your spot on. It makes this cultural thing very understandable and quite likable. Thanks for pointing me in that direction.

khanh44 wrote:

I'm just going to stereotype here and I'm a Vietnamese male btw but some Vietnamese males just give a bad name for all Vietnamese males. They are too possessive, demanding, self-centered and get jealous easily. As you get to the younger generations and move further outside Vietnam these characteristics lessen.

Caucasian whites have a good reputation of being caring, kind and responsible. Not saying all are but so far the bad ones haven't ruined it for the good ones.

This is very spot on as to why Vietnamese love western men. My wife has one friend who is always asking me if I have a western friend who I can set her up with. This is what she told me her reasons were
1. Vietnamese men tend to spend most of their free time outside the home either working or drinking with friends. She said that is why the women holds the money so that the men can't drink it all away. (these are her words not mine)
She had told me to look around the next time we dined out and count how many groups of men were there drinking after work time. After she brought that to my attention it is easy to see why Vietnamese women would be pissed off. 
2. Western men are seen as more caring and passionate then the average Vietnamese man. A western man will talk with his wife while a Vietnamese man will tell his wife.
3. Money. Most expats come to work in Vietnam because they can make more working here than their home country so they are definitely making more than the average Vietnamese.
4.Babies.
She told me that when she has children she would like them to be half white because she thinks that would be very lovely.

Again, these are all her words and thoughts not mine and I have heard some of these same things from other women her.

Hummmm, wonder why none of the Vietnamese men haven't chimed in on this.....

Budman1 wrote:

Hummmm, wonder why none of the Vietnamese men haven't chimed in on this.....

Maybe they are out drinking now

memory8620 wrote:

Hi, I'm new member in this site..I like Don's point of view..You seem well understand for Vietnamese culture.
How to know if the young woman love you- old man with her heart or fake is thing you need to discover.
I'm Vietnamese girl and having a good job but I always happy when seeing my boyfriend or husband help my parents ( although they don't need) but it shows how he cares of his soulmate..
Love me, Love my dog => it's true in Viet Nam
I will say goodbye with a man who say to me " Why I have to provide your family, Why I have to pay for?? You can do it and You have ability to do it" => Trash him.. >"<
For dine out, I would love to let my bf pay the bills and I will buy him presents or cook for him many excellent meals later...
Hihi..Who dare to date with me??? lol

Thanks for sharing the perspective on the female side. Vietnamese people will always pay you back that are worth more than money can ever put a price on. Like they say it's the thought that counts.

I'm a newbie to this site but have read the posts with interest.
I'm a 65 year old Aussie who is about to marry a Vietnamese woman.

I can just hear the "Oh no! Another desperado, looking for a child bride comments".

I can tell you that she is 54, a teacher and we met in Australia.

We are both marrying for the second time, neither of us are wealthy, but we share many common interests.

My reason for joining this site is to glean some insight in understanding her culture more deeply, so any information will be appreciated.

Previously, I was married to a Japanese woman for 20 years and lived in Japan for 7 of them, so I do have some experience with living with someone with a different language and culture. However, Japanese and Vietnamese culture are very different.

[A western man will talk with his wife while a Vietnamese man will tell his wife]

Yeah... this is so true!

memory8620 wrote:

Hi, I'm new member in this site..I like Don's point of view..You seem well understand for Vietnamese culture.
How to know if the young woman love you- old man with her heart or fake is thing you need to discover.
I'm Vietnamese girl and having a good job but I always happy when seeing my boyfriend or husband help my parents ( although they don't need) but it shows how he cares of his soulmate..
Love me, Love my dog => it's true in Viet Nam
I will say goodbye with a man who say to me " Why I have to provide your family, Why I have to pay for?? You can do it and You have ability to do it" => Trash him.. >"<
For dine out, I would love to let my bf pay the bills and I will buy him presents or cook for him many excellent meals later...

I think like you, and honestly, all girls like this. You dont need to help something which cost you more, just a little bit also ok.

bta87 wrote:

I realize this is a very subjective question, but are what are the experiences of the men on here that are married to VN brides? Question #2) What should I look out for. I've heard some real horor stories. Mind you I'm 63, have money and girls are crawling all over me that are young enough (20-25) to be my grandchildren. I suspect their attracted to the bulge in my pants more than anything else( my wallet). All I'm looking for is to love and be loved. Never been with a bar girl and never want to be w/ one. Should I just head back to the U.S. and take a cold shower, or what?

Hi bta87.

It is a subjective question, mind you. As a matter of fact, I have a number of friends who married Vietnamese girls & they're quite good. Takes care of families, kids, house, etc. But of course age is a factor as you're 63. You should know if those girls are after your heart or money. It isnt hard to see.

Nobodys asking you to find a bargirl to be a wife. Bars are not the only places to find vietnamese girls. If you have contacts there, you can ask them to intro you, not a problem.

For me, I prefer Vietnamese girls than Singapore girls. I wont elaborate more on my preference.

Happy hunting..

My god, i really a bit tired with my eyes to see all post. Very nice, it s really nice topic.

If we can find the love of our life is great. Many people here share opinion about love & money...., so now i just want to share a bit my opinion about culture in my opinion.

Really asia and western is different:

If the western woman want to tell the husband something they will tell dicrectly. But many asia they keep silence or they talk with another way. And maybe like that not easy for the husband understand what they want.

And have the sentence like this: If you get married with your wife mean you get married with all her family. Really it almost true. Bcz for long time ago, its happend like that, so the wife will happy and proud if the husband support her family. And some Asia they feel dont happy bcz the western man feel very difficult with that duty. But we need to understand, everything have 2 sides. The western they have their life, they do what they want, they can get married with any woman they want. But Vietnam not easy, when get married, need agreement from Family. If Vietnam Woman get married with a guy but his family dont like her, im not sure she can happy.

I just give some small example (My example just mean most of, not mean all ) just want to share, if we really love my partner we can find the way suitable for us. Just only we want to do or not.

Very nice post Yuli,. Thanks for your insight.

I also like your post.  I am an American married to a Vietnamese woman.  I feel that a man is related to his wife's family as soon as they marry.  And the same for the wife.  I love my new, extended family, especially my Mother-in-law.  That is makes a good marriage.  And we agree that we must talk about everything to keep from getting upset.

Just ran into something that seemed strange to me. perhaps someone out there can tell me if this is VN custom. That is this " to deny a newly wed husband sex until the new bride has determined if he will be a good father". Is this normal Vn protocol?