Bank for direct deposit from USA Social Security and VA

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#1 25 September 2012 21:11:09

ancientpathos
ancientpathos
Da Nang

Bank for direct deposit from USA Social Security and VA

Greetings,
I am looking for a bank that can recieve direct deposits for USA SSA and VA.  Are there anyone here doing direct deposit? I am going to keep my USA Bank as long as posible.  If the VA and SSA would email me instead of requiring a home address to send my mail I would not worry.  But if my mail gets returned they may hold my checks.  Anyone else have this concern?  Any other veterans from the USA recieving their checks in Vietnam?

Last edited by ancientpathos (25 September 2012 21:12:08)

#2 26 September 2012 00:39:59

Jaitch
Jaitch
Buon Ma Thuot, DakLak

Re: Bank for direct deposit from USA Social Security and VA

IF, I understand, the pensions folks in the USA, discover you are a non-resident citizen they have you check in monthly with the embassy / consulate ... so they know you are alive.

Other countries are less smart.

Therefore you will need a US resident address for your bank account.

Next are charges. You need a bank that has an agreement with a bank (or one of their branches in VN) whereby ATM charges are minimal.

The other method of transfer is SWIFT - best used for lump sums - which is an interbank transfer system. The benefit of this is that it produces lots of proof that the money came in to VN - ATMs don't.

VietNam is regarded as a black hole for Hard Currency - bring it in and it is hard to remove. You have to substantiate the money was imported or is income that was taxed to export hard currency.

I used to recommend the HSBC but a pigs rear-end has more sense. They accept transfers in USD$ and then grab your money and convert to VN Dong for payout.

It is essential you have a bank that will hold and pay out in dollars. They are worth so much more (on the black market)!

So basically: get a US address (family member); get a US bank that has cheap ATM services overseas (maybe a co-op or thrift bank); never tell the US Government you are living outside the US and never fill in forms (AND sign) that lie(!!).

Cambodia is used by some people to bring in USD$ as the dollar is a currency used there. (This involves a visa and a bus ride).

One US citizen I know transfers his pensions from one US bank to another electronically and the second bank is used to transfer funds here. The big pain is that the US can walk in and inspect any bank although for a pension it is unlikely.

If you live out of Ha Noi or Ho Chi Minh City these "check-in" trips van get expensive.

#3 26 September 2012 01:36:48

ancientpathos
ancientpathos
Da Nang

Re: Bank for direct deposit from USA Social Security and VA

Jaitch you are a wealth of information.  Thank you.  I have thought of using Bank of Thailand as it was recommended by an old soldier who has his government direct deposit sent there.  He did not say anything about checking in with the embassy. Not sure if I want to travel to Thailand every month.  May need to travel somewhere for the visa.

#4 04 October 2012 13:06:39

THIGV
THIGV
HCMC

Re: Bank for direct deposit from USA Social Security and VA

I have a direct deposit with Citibank in the US then transfer it to my wife's account in Citibank VN.  The transfer is free but the local account is a dual account, with one for USD and another for VND so I have to transfer again to the VND account to use an ATM.   Exchange rate is not great but acceptable.  ATM use is OK because they have no-fee deals with about 6 local banks. 

Only problem could be that I don't think Citi VN will let you open an account unless you have a residency card.

#5 04 October 2012 13:28:33

Chris NJ
Chris NJ
Ho Chi Minh City

Re: Bank for direct deposit from USA Social Security and VA

I agree with the Citibank account. Before I moved to Vn I opened one up knowing they are here also. Plus you won't get hit with ATM fees when using there machines. Trust me they add up !

#6 04 October 2012 16:31:04

Jaitch
Jaitch
Buon Ma Thuot, DakLak

Re: Bank for direct deposit from USA Social Security and VA

Any direct deposit with a bank that pays out here in VN is no good.

You should receive money into a US bank then transfer it to the other bank that has ATMs here. Not exactly bullet proof, but better than one bank.

Don't forget to make arrangements for your wife to clear the accounts, unobtrusively, in the event of your demise.

A friend keeps my account access codes and my wife knows the bank.

Remember, Western banks FREEZE accounts on the death of an account holder and they could care less how hard it is on survivors. Joint accounts are possible, but usually both parties have to attend the account holding bank.

#8 05 October 2012 03:09:37

perry88
perry88
Rockville, MD

Re: Bank for direct deposit from USA Social Security and VA

I have an account with Wells Fargo bank.  I am in the US but I can transfer funds to my fiance in Nha Trang through their arrangement with a local Vietnamese bank.  The cost is $7 per transaction.  She collects the money from the local bank in US currency.  When I retire and live part of the year in Viet Nam I will have my Social Security and other retirement accounts direct deposited into Wells Fargo and then transfer the funds (online) to myself as needed.  BTW, starting soon all US government checks must be sent via direct deposit.  Paper checks will no longer be issued.

#9 05 October 2012 04:02:50

Budman1
Budman1
Vietnam

Re: Bank for direct deposit from USA Social Security and VA

I've had a account with B of A since 75. My wife and I retire checks all go their direct deposit. I just live with the ATM fee's. $5.00 to B of A and about $3.35 to the bank here in Vietnam for each withdrawl. The monthly go to the Consulate is a requiremt to draw SS here in Vietnam. Would'nt be bad if we lived in Saigon but it's a long trip from Can Tho every month. Been doing it now for 5 years.

#10 05 October 2012 06:13:08

l3ully
l3ully
Nha Trang

Re: Bank for direct deposit from USA Social Security and VA

Jaitch wrote:

.............

I used to recommend the HSBC but a pigs rear-end has more sense. They accept transfers in USD$ and then grab your money and convert to VN Dong for payout.
............

:lol:

Not been that kind of unlucky yet. Even smaller USD amounts, I can get from my regular VND account (e.g. 3 years ago, I got a new passport and my German embassy demanded payment in USD at this time, other occasions like a Cambodia trip, no problem so far). However, I will stress out, that the amounts I took where really only pocket moneys. Larger amounts, I am not sure, how its handled now, as the rules have changed a lot in the past few years.

#11 05 October 2012 07:50:16

Jaitch
Jaitch
Buon Ma Thuot, DakLak

Re: Bank for direct deposit from USA Social Security and VA

The VietComBank will sell you for travel related purposes in proscribed amounts upon production of proof of your ticket / visa.

This also includes getting new passports, without which you are unable to leave the country.

Try that at the HSBC-VN bank and the answer is khong - your money is their money, in practice.

Last edited by Jaitch (05 October 2012 07:55:25)

#12 23 October 2012 05:24:08

Parmyd
Parmyd
HCM

Re: Bank for direct deposit from USA Social Security and VA

As of now the US Government will not direct deposit to banks in Communist countries. They are suppose to be working on that, but who knows how long before it is implemented. Your best bet is to open Citibank account in US and open a Citibank account here in Vietnam. Then you can transfer your money for free. Citibank Vietnam has accounts for US dollars that only foreigners can open. I am not sure of the exact visa requirements. I just opened one 2 weeks ago and am here on a 5 year visa exemption.

#13 23 October 2012 05:45:19

Jaitch
Jaitch
Buon Ma Thuot, DakLak

Re: Bank for direct deposit from USA Social Security and VA

Parmyd wrote:

As of now the US Government will not direct deposit to banks in Communist countries.

VietNam, like Denmark, s a Socialist country,

Not that you would think so living in TP HCM!

China, Cuba and North Korea are Communist.

#14 23 October 2012 05:49:34

Parmyd
Parmyd
HCM

Re: Bank for direct deposit from USA Social Security and VA

Semantics Jaitch, the US Government still classifies them as a communist country. Like you said though you wouldn't know it from the way things are here.

#15 24 December 2012 15:12:12

expatviet

Re: Bank for direct deposit from USA Social Security and VA

Please keep this topic updated with problem solutions.. We all worked for it, have money removed from pay checks for SSA retirement.

Retirement living outside of the USA is not a crime and no reasons to make people jmp around as monkeys in a cage trying to collect earned benefits..

What I refer to is reporting to the US embassy every month is big problem considering the US embassy or SSA at Manila has no branch locations creating serious travel problems away from embassy locations

Even if you are capable to travel every month to report in person to a US embassy location in person, your SSA money
can only be picked up in person at a SSA aproved direct deposit registered bank...

This is a serious nuisance and problem with out of the country retirement living...

Are there others with better solutions?
Are there bordering countries with better! perhaps once a
year reporting?
Are there other countries where one can SSA direct deposit
for example one year then once a year travel to pick up the cash?
This business of reporting once per month and then traveling to pickup deposited cash or using a money transfer fees to ATM transfer is not ideal and expensive solution...

I understand USA banks are forced closed if there is no local in person USA activity only over seas activity..

#16 24 December 2012 15:22:33

perry88
perry88
Rockville, MD

Re: Bank for direct deposit from USA Social Security and VA

Many years ago I worked for the US Treasury Department.  One of the things I ran across one day was information about Social Security retirement checks sent to retirees living in foreign countries.  For some reason a lot of the checks were going to Poland.

#17 25 December 2012 05:49:27

Budman1
Budman1
Vietnam

Re: Bank for direct deposit from USA Social Security and VA

This subject is very near and dear to me. Wish I had a solution, but after 5 years of the monthly trips from Can Tho to Saigon it's hopeless I'm afraid.

#18 26 December 2012 04:25:47

expatviet

Re: Bank for direct deposit from USA Social Security and VA

There is always a solution once the source and purpose of the problem has been understood, thereby analyzed.. Breaking this
SSA payments, direct deposit, our pension money delivery should not be a complicated procedure inside a computer driven "apply online SSA" digital biometric registered USA government...

Where I do not understand is the purpose and prospects of
in person travel during our old age becoming more and more a serious old age handicap.. The banking systems have adopted online financial operations and can dispurse cash on a global basis using pin numbers, passwords, numerous biometric identity recognition. One rapid digital cash dispursement is using your cell phone identity with barcoded test updates to replace paper cash on a global basis..

If we can understand what is the purpose of keeping retired
people identification issues prior to collecting their pension...  perhaps we can start expat protest diret to the
source of the problem.. Let them spend tax payer money to recognize identitfy old disabled handicaped US citizens over the same channels applied by credit card company and global internet online banking...

This should be a simple adjustment to the "easy to apply online SSA" and "online security steps at the SSA" as is all
part of their original digital paper less plans...

There was a change issued by "homeland security?" "IRS?", some agency tied to police terrorist and drug crime money
laundering?...

Who ever what ever the agency in control of the regulations and procedures to send old retired people their pension money should be properly advised and or addressed to apply the digit5al age of ??? biometric ?? security

There is always a better solution,  and over time crimminals shall find and apply new discovery to bypass old security.. However we as retired citizens should stand up and shout we are not terrorist, noy criminals, we just want our earned and payable pension so we can get on with our old age retirement!

We all need our pension money and we all hate being treated as monkeys in a cage begging for banana... as set forth by some rash and under developed officer making pension distribution a nigh mare of security hardship steps facing the older retired less adaptive US citizens

#19 26 December 2012 05:51:30

expatviet

Re: Bank for direct deposit from USA Social Security and VA

Adendum

This report from a US citizen in Thailand has no mention of monthly reported travel in in person to a US embassy. The
money from SSA is deposited direct to Thailand bank.. Not
available? not true? in Vietnam? There is BofB bank in Saigon?

Need research


Thursday, August 18, 2011
Social Security & federal Benefits "Direct Deposit" Thailand
The good news first!Getting your benefits by direct deposit in Thailand is easy,along with the application process.I set everything up by first emailing:SSAD.VARO.MANILA[at]ssa.gov.I explained by email that my retirement date was due in Oct of 2011.(three month's before you retire/apply ahead of that date),and wanted to know the score.I was called the very next day!It does pay to give them contact information(your SSN/other security issues should not go in a email)i.e phone and email.I then contacted the embassy(USA)..waste of time!I can tell you that only "Bangkok Bank" has the direct deposit.That is somewhat the "Bad News",but it is only a minor problem due to normal Thai way of making you jump through hoops.The Bank has everything you need to file for this service. It is pretty easy.Other blogs & information sites will tell you to go to the branch nearest the area you live,do not bother,but go directly to the "Silom Road Branch".The bank will have the (1199 A Form) and will do all the work.Bring your Passport/Visa/Yellow House book if married.drivers Lic.I should add,"AFTER" your phone interview with Manila SSA,and your short talk with the SSA  Officer,who will ask some very short questions,passport dates,birth date,etc!It is important to not screw up your interview!Manila is one hour ahead of Thailand,and they do call you exactly on time!Make sure, just like with a Thai Bank,you have everything needed for your phone interview.It is also to your advantage to open a second savings account with Bangkok Bank,thus allowing the transfer of your direct deposit into that second account.The original direct deposit account does not allow a debit card to withdraw funds,but you can go to any branch with your normal documents and transfer that deposit into the second savings account and access it with a debit card.I could go through all the addresses and contact numbers,but it is easy to do with the two contacts i will now provide.(Manila)(632)525-6614/Email:SSA.VARO.MANILA[at]ssa.gov..(BANGKOK BANK PUBLIC COMPANY LIMITED)(333 Silom Road, BKK.10500/PH#(02)230-1322-3.I was able to get everything completed in one trip downtown,two phone calls to Manila,and my letter of benefits award from SSA in two weeks start to Finnish.Jai yen,yen!luckkyybuddha999
Posted by James Swan at 3:01 AM
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#21 26 December 2012 10:14:54

Parmyd
Parmyd
HCM

Re: Bank for direct deposit from USA Social Security and VA

Budman1 wrote:

This subject is very near and dear to me. Wish I had a solution, but after 5 years of the monthly trips from Can Tho to Saigon it's hopeless I'm afraid.

Budman1,

Have you tried opening a Citibank account in the US and have your money direct deposited there and open a Citibank in Saigon and you can transfer it for free.

I have done the same and am just waiting on my direct deposit to be transfered to Citibank now.

#22 26 December 2012 10:32:52

expatviet

Re: Bank for direct deposit from USA Social Security and VA

Hello

I left US 7 years ago with 3 bank accounts established over the years.. I left with auto payments established and was having no
problems until 2009

2009 a normal phone call from ASIA to one of my bank accounts
was informed.. we must see you immeadiate.. we need to talk to you..

I was on the phone with this bank talking what is your  problem? It was a secret! Tey put me on hold 3 minutes when
I heard a new voice of authority demanding I fax my driver license, my passport, what identity I have.. When I asked for
what is their number who are they got no answer.. Next thing i know the voice told me forget it we are closing your accounts, where do you want the money sent!

This same incident happen at the other banks and I was cautious not to provoke incident.. I was calling to renew credit cards received in Vietnam!

All my accounts in the USA was closed by these people over
telephone, never never letting me send identify information.
Until this day I do not know who to call or what these people
do what agency what authority.. They was all tied together
by my Social Security Number

I do not, can not open a Citibank account or any other bank
account in the USA.. I heard Homeland Security is working with all major USA Credit reporting agency to monitor every
transaction outside the USA.. And yes I did use my credit
cards that was paid automatic from my US bank accounts before
this NEW REGULATION was started monitoring US Dollars outside
the USA

#23 26 December 2012 11:20:24

Parmyd
Parmyd
HCM

Re: Bank for direct deposit from USA Social Security and VA

Expatviet,

Have you checked your credit and chexsystems? The problem may lie there. Also here is a link to the Treasury Department website http://sdnsearch.ofac.treas.gov/ , you can do a search of your name and see if you are on the list of people not allowed to do transactions with financial institutions in US.

Other than that Homeland security is not to concerned with the average expat and what they do with their money.

#24 27 December 2012 02:43:36

Budman1
Budman1
Vietnam

Re: Bank for direct deposit from USA Social Security and VA

Parmyd wrote:

Budman1 wrote:

This subject is very near and dear to me. Wish I had a solution, but after 5 years of the monthly trips from Can Tho to Saigon it's hopeless I'm afraid.

Budman1,

Have you tried opening a Citibank account in the US and have your money direct deposited there and open a Citibank in Saigon and you can transfer it for free.

I have done the same and am just waiting on my direct deposit to be transfered to Citibank now.

Not to bust your bubble but this is the reason I don't want to attempt transfers with anothe Bank. The system I have in place works ok for me currently. The monthly reporting to the Consulate in Saigon is what I have a problem with.


22/10/2012






Citibank Global Transfer (CGT) – Improvement System




Incoming Citibank Global Transfer (CGT) service from US, UK and Germany will be temporarily suspended for further improvement. Please call CitiPhone at (84) 1900 1819 or (84 8) 3521 1111 for further information

#26 28 December 2012 03:43:32

expatviet

Re: Bank for direct deposit from USA Social Security and VA

Parmyd, Budman1

Thank you for your updates...

Most people understand Marh 2013
start Direct depsit EFT to only FDIC registered banks that
are on the Treasury EFT (electronid fund transfer) approval list of banks.. This automatically voids all international
banks that have no physical FDIC location inside the USA.
To receiv Social Security pension it must first be deposited
by the Treasury into an FDIC EFT recognized bank.. Now here
is where an international bank can forward transfer your
pension money to another International bank account location
you have opened with the same bank outside the USA.. The
rules that the USA bank must obey outside the USA is that
all withdrawals must be in person face to face with passport
at the foreign bank location where the pension money was forwarded...

Examine the above and review that when you appear in person
with a 10 year life of passport to pickup your pension.. There should be no excuse for additional identification to
prove you are alive or dead! Why force people to travel to an
embassy to identify over and beyond the cause of dutty!

In the USA your driver license photo is all solutions of
identity.. What are the haphazard regulations for identity
outside the USA? Your passport photo! Why not just have Social Security issue a photo ID biometric card that all
banks can recognize as retired old people identity? So what
about your USA passport identity offered to any international
bank as proof of your name and nationality but zer connection
to your Social Security pension account receivable..A biometric photo Identity card issued by Social Security the
same as a Medicare or Medicaid card should solve all the USA
and international bank account dispursement. Just show the
ID same as a VISA or Mastercard with your photo and biometric
data, the bank can forward the withdrawal data also prove the person is alive receiving their personal pension..   

   
About this new options Treasury issued Direct Express Cards
it for use inside the USA, it has restricted ATM services and
very difficult to receive cash outside the USA.. Once again
outside the USA the use of the card is hopeless since there
is no international banking recognition and the card has no photo biometric identity to report back to the Treasury what you are doing with your pension USA dollars outside the USA

The solutions are out there if we can open the eyes of people
making rash untested decisions that are unproved and create severe hardship for the older retired USA citizens outside the USA who simply want their pension money

**************    US embassy / Bank Of Bagkok *******

Advice to Receiver using Direct Deposit Service

From March 1, 2013, the US Treasury Department will cease issuing paper cheques for federal benefits such as pensions, annuities or payroll, including Social Security and Veterans Affairs payments and will transfer benefits electronically via direct bank deposit.

If you currently receive your payments via cheque, you will need to notify your Federal Benefit Agency of the US account you wish to have your payments directly deposited into by March 1, 2013. As Bangkok Bank is the only provider in Thailand offering Direct Deposit services into a Thai bank account, you will need to request your US government agency or private organization route your payments into your Bangkok Bank account via the Bangkok Bank New York branch. If you currently reside in Thailand, you can apply for the service in person at any Bangkok Bank branch near you (except the micro branches).

Benefits of the Direct Deposit Service

You no longer need to visit the bank branch to cash or send your US Treasury or company issued cheques for collection.
No risk of losing cheques.
Receive your funds faster.
Funds will be converted into Baht using the rate receiving electronic funds transfers (Buying TT rate) which is better than the rate for buying foreign cheques (Buying sight bill rate).

How to apply: If receiving payments from a US Government Agency

Download the 'Direct Deposit Sign-up Form (SF1199A)' from www.socialsecurity.gov/online. Complete the form to sign up for Direct Deposit with your relevant US government agency.
Open a savings account at any Bangkok Bank branch (except micro branches). If you already have an account with Bangkok Bank, you can use your existing bank account for this service, however we will need to change the type of account in line with the Direct Deposit’s terms and conditions.
Complete a 'Direct Deposit Service Application' form, which you can pick up at any Bangkok Bank branch (except the micro branches). You can also opt to fill out an SMS Remittance Alert Service Request Form to receive an SMS notification on your mobile phone when funds have been successfully transferred into your Bangkok Bank account.
Submit all forms to Bangkok Bank with the following supporting documents:
Identification Card/Government Official ID Card/Passport together with a customer identification document such as your Social Security Card, Annuitant ID Card etc.
A document from the relevant agency giving evidence of your right to receive the payments.
After verifying your documents, Bangkok Bank will submit your application to the government agency asking them to approve your request to receive the funds via Direct Deposit.
After the request is approved by the US Government Agency, your payments will be electronically deposited directly into your Bangkok Bank account.

Important

If you use a direct deposit service to receive funds from a US Government Agency, you must appear in person at a Bangkok Bank branch to withdraw the funds.

In compliance with US regulations, Bangkok Bank cannot authorize the withdrawal of funds from your direct deposit account by an appointed representative, or via ATM or any other electronic channel. You must appear in person at a Bangkok Bank branch to withdraw the funds. You can, however, open a normal savings or current account and transfer the funds from your direct deposit account to this account. You may then withdraw your funds as usual via ATM or any other electronic channel.

You can also opt to directly contact the US Government Agencies to send funds into your savings account with Bangkok Bank. However, we still need to request that you change your savings account to a Direct Deposit account. Failure to comply will result in Bangkok Bank not being able to deposit funds transferred from the US Government Agency into your account.

How to apply: If receiving payments from a private organization

Request the 'Authorization Agreement for Automatic Deposits (ACH Credits)' form or Direct Deposit form from the private organization you receive payments from. Complete the form to request the Direct Deposit service.
Open a savings account at any Bangkok Bank branch in Thailand. If you already have an account with Bangkok Bank, you can use your existing bank account for this service.
Submit the form with the required information for account opening and the following supporting documents:
Identity Card/Government Official ID Card/Passport together with a customer identification document such as your Social Security Card, Annuitant ID Card etc.
A letter from the organizations authorized to make payments, as evidence of your right to receive the payments from the company.
After verifying your documents, Bangkok Bank will sign your 'Authorization Agreement for Automatic Deposit form (ACH Credits)' or Direct Deposit form and return the original form to you.
Mail the signed form to the US company asking them to approve the request and initiate direct deposits into your account.
After the request to receive direct deposits is approved, your payments will be electronically deposited directly into your Bangkok Bank account.

Residing in the US

If you are a Bangkok Bank customer residing in the US, you can submit your application form and supporting documents to Bangkok Bank's New York branch: 29 Broadway, 19th Fl, New York, New York 10006 United States, Tel: (1-212) 422-8200.

Last edited by expatviet (28 December 2012 08:19:54)

#27 13 January 2013 20:57:02

perry88
perry88
Rockville, MD

Re: Bank for direct deposit from USA Social Security and VA

Latest update to military retired and disabled payments going to overseas accounts:
New DFAS (Defense Finance and Accounting Service) policy effective 13 MAR requires recipients of paper checks to sign up for direct deposit. The no paper check policy applies to all retirees and annuitants with the following exception of those who are over 90 years of age as of 1 May 2011and those who have a mental impairments which have been substantiated by a physician. Payees who do not already have an account to receive the direct deposit in will have to open an account either at a U.S. financial institution, an overseas financial institution with a stateside affiliate, or an overseas financial institution located in a country approved for international direct deposit (IDD).
To open an account in the states it is U.S. banking policy that it be done in person with a signature card signed by the account holder in their presence. This is not practical for those residing overseas unless they travel to the U.S. One way to avoid having to do this is to complete an International Direct Deposit form SF1119-I and submit it to DFAS for approval. It can be downloaded at http://www.dfas.mil/dfas/retiredmilitar … /idd.html. This option is only available to payees living in nations chosen for IDD eligibility IDD electronically deposits funds on the first business day of the month. Your payment will be converted from U.S. dollars to local currency two business days prior to the U.S. payment date, using a wholesale exchange rate. IDD puts your money directly into your local overseas bank in local currency. If you reside in Canada, and have a U.S. dollar account, you may elect to receive your payment electronically in U.S. dollars. This option is only available in Canada. If you currently have your pay sent via direct deposit to a stateside financial institution, do not close that account until you have verified receipt at your international bank. Otherwise, your pay will be returned to DFAS, causing additional delays.
Nations chosen for IDD eligibility have met the requirements of the Federal Reserve Bank. Simply put, the banks and other financial institutions in those countries provide secure and trustworthy services and have systems compatible with transferring funds from the U. S. to your account. As more countries become eligible, affected retirees will be notified. If you reside in a country that is not on International Electronic Fund Transfer and would like to participate, please send a written inquiry to: DFAS Cleveland - Retired & Annuitant Pay Services, 1240 East 9th Street, Room 1579C, Cleveland, OH 44199.
IDD is not available to Philippine residents. DFAS is still working on a solution for Philippine payees which will be posted on their web page when determined. In the interim what they can do is open an account with a local PI bank that has an affiliate in the states. They can then provide DFAS with the routing number of the affiliate stateside bank and the account number of their local PI bank using either the Fast Start Direct Deposit Form at http://www.fms.treas.gov/eft/2231.pdf or myPay at thttps://mypay.dfas.mil/mypay.aspx . DFAS will then forward payments to the affiliate U.S. bank who in turn will forward funds (for a fee) to the account holder’s local PI bank account. There are a number of Philippine banks that have affiliates in the U.S. Using PNB as an example:
1) DFAS would forward funds to the Los Angeles Branch of PNB whose routing number is 122038756.
2) LA PNB would electronically forward funds the same day to the local PI bank after deducting their reimbursement fee. Funds should be available for withdrawal the next day.
3) Depending on the type of local account (peso or dollar) LA PNB would withhold a fee for the service that is based on the amount of funds transferred. At present their charges are -
a. Peso account: $7 up to $500 worth of pesos and $9 over $500.
b. Dollar account: $10 up to $1,000, $20 for $1001 to $2000, etc.
[Source: DFAS customer service and Los Angeles PNB 20 Dec 2012 ++]

#28 14 January 2013 00:42:49

Jaitch
Jaitch
Buon Ma Thuot, DakLak

Re: Bank for direct deposit from USA Social Security and VA

expatviet wrote:

... In compliance with US regulations, Bangkok Bank cannot authorize the withdrawal of funds from your direct deposit account by an appointed representative, or via ATM or any other electronic channel. You must appear in person at a Bangkok Bank branch to withdraw the funds. You can, however, open a normal savings or current account and transfer the funds from your direct deposit account to this account. You may then withdraw your funds as usual via ATM or any other electronic channel.

This is the 'live body' check.

In VietNam, according to other benefits recipients, they have to report monthly to the U.S. Embassy or Consulate.

This is to ensure the benefits cease when you cease (living).

Of course, if you deposit in one U.S. bank, then electronically transfer to a second one, from which you draw your funds, the need for monthly reporting is eliminated.

Of course there is a good possibility your benefits payments will continue after your death, which might please your survivors not resident in the USA!

#29 14 January 2013 02:33:57

Jaitch
Jaitch
Buon Ma Thuot, DakLak

Re: Bank for direct deposit from USA Social Security and VA

perry88 wrote:

... This option is only available to payees living in nations chosen for IDD eligibility IDD electronically deposits funds on the first business day of the month. Your payment will be converted from U.S. dollars to local currency two business days prior to the U.S. payment date, using a wholesale exchange rate. IDD puts your money directly into your local overseas bank in local currency.

In VietNam the very last thing you want to do is to have all this money converted in to Dong!

By having a "receiving" bank (with a InterNet savings account) in the US (with InterNet) and a second US bank (not the same institution as the first), where you have an InterNet Savings and Current account, you isolate your source of funds.

The first banking institution has to comply with US pensions payment rules (which are often changing) whereas the second institution has none of the restraints as the money is coming from another US bank.

perry88 wrote:

If you reside in Canada, and have a U.S. dollar account, you may elect to receive your payment electronically in U.S. dollars. This option is only available in Canada.

Only US benefits paid in US dollars to one outside country.

This is to be avoided as it is very hard to move funds out of VietNam, once here!

perry88 wrote:

Nations chosen for IDD eligibility have met the requirements of the Federal Reserve Bank. Simply put, the banks and other financial institutions in those countries provide secure and trustworthy services and have systems compatible with transferring funds from the U. S. to your account.

This means the US Government has a back-channel from your bank to them. Do you really want the US Government to know  everything about you?

perry88 wrote:

In the interim what they can do is open an account with a local PI bank that has an affiliate in the states.

This is the US Government saying it's OK to use a US-based bank to receive payments before being forwarded on.
So:
US Bank 1 INTERNET SAVINGS (receiving): All US government benefits payments made here. You can transfer money to US Bank 2 InterNet Savings, pay your bills, etc. Do not have plastic (cards) associated with this account.

US Bank 2 INTERNET SAVINGS (intermediate receiving):[/b] This is an account in a different institution into which you transfer funds for forwarding to you. You can also use it to settle accounts (electronically) in the US. No plastic cards!

US Bank 2 INTERNET CURRENT (disbursing):[/b] This account is your activity account. You don't get interest but you have a card and you use this as a main account.

1. By NOT having a plastic card associated with an account you INCREASE SECURITY. If all your banking (accounts A and B above) is done electronically, you have maximum security from someone using an ATM card to steal your money.

2. To transfer funds electronically between accounts requires you set up the payee account. Again this increases security. You want worry free banking. And make sure your institution isn't a "too big to fail" type, the US Government might not be around to save them, next time.

3. The reason you need a 'current' account is that your 'big' money is held away from the plastic. You have your money sitting in your 'B' Savings and a simple few strokes on the keyboard and money is then in your plastic account.

4. Transferring BIG Money
When you transfer money, the banks are out to score. The unwise use their bank transfer system (and score on exchange, etc).

The wise and smart use SWIFT. SWIFT is a European-based international payments transfer system. It shuffles money at a bank level and delivers right to your branch.

The amounts transferred should be at least USD1,500. The fees are less, too. Around USD$15-20.

The banks have an Instruction Form which essentially is an instruction from you to your overseas bank to send money, via SWIFT, to the bank branch as you direct.

Carry on reading carefully.

Recipient bank in your country of residence
Banking in VN is complex, a mess. It is run by fiat from the State Bank of VietNam who promulgates policies and changes often.

You have to select your VN bank very carefully.

You are SWIFTing US dollars into the country and you want dollars out of the bank.

You need to have a bank guarantee that they will give you US dollars for a SWIFT transfer. You might have to set up a US dollar account. No problem.

The key thing is being able to get US dollars out. (This means not HSBC who won't do this)

The bank you select will give you a SWIFT transfer instruction. This will have a few spaces for you to complete. Your money will be transferred to a New York correspondent bank (of your VN bank) and within a day the money will appear over here in VN.

Sweet.

Dealing with dollars
Dollars have a life of their own, in VN, as they can be sold to ForEx (Foreign Exchange) or even to businessmen who need dollars to settle overseas accounts.

This is why the HSBC likes to pinch your dollars and give you Dong. Score more money for the bank.

If you don't know businessmen who need dollars, you will. They have ways of finding you. In the mean time, sell your dollars to a ForEx shop and get over the bank exchange rate.

Income tax
In the English Standard Version Bible (2001) at Romans 13.7
Pay to all what is owed to them: taxes to whom taxes are owed, revenue to whom revenue is owed, respect to whom respect is owed, honour to whom honour is owed.

The US, Canada, the UK and a whole bunch of other countries expect to score tax off all your income. (VN has a tax agreement with most countries)

Against this world-wide tax system they have a system if credits. So if you pay homage to the US treasury you would deduct any taxes paid to another country - if they have an agreement.

As I carry three passports and therefore am expected to pay three income taxes. Fat chance.

So what I do is to pay tax on any income I generate within a country and keep quiet about the rest as well as where I am domiciled.

You have to make this decision. If your income is from the US and you don't pay income tax in VN, why bother filling in all that information about where you live, etc.

Keep it simple.

Follow Romans 13.7 - just declare your US income to the US government and forget it. You will unlikely get worked by the IRS unless you have big investments, but then you wouldn't be reading this.

VN Work Permits and Tax
If you have a Work Permit the VNese government expects to see tax.

So, if you are not working, just get a Residence Permit.

If you do work, and get a Work Permit, just pay up and ignore declaring any non-VN income tax. (Personally I have no objections to paying VN taxes, after all I do use VN facilities)

Doing Business overseas from VN
Much of my companies business is from overseas. When we bill overseas customers we use a proxy salesman in the country of sale and have the money paid into an account in that country which makes it easy for everyone.

We invoice the proxy salesman from VietNam, for bookkeeping purposes only.

VN tax is paid on the sale but the funds are held overseas. It makes it much easier to pay overseas accounts and, if you bank with some banks, you get to play with electronic doo-dads that generate access codes. I have about 7 hanging from my desk.

InterNet banking can be great.

So enjoy your pensions!

#30 14 January 2013 03:25:50

Budman1
Budman1
Vietnam

Re: Bank for direct deposit from USA Social Security and VA

Please allow me to clarify a few points. The two links below give the background and requirements for drawing SS here in Vietnam:

https://secure.ssa.gov/poms.nsf/lnx/0302650040#a

https://secure.ssa.gov/poms.nsf/lnx/0302650022#a

That being said, no matter how you receive the money it makes no difference to the SSA. If your receding in Vietnam for more than 6 month your required to report every month. It’s also a requirement to report any changes in your address to them. Filing a false report can cause a loss of benefits, fines, ect; ect. The SSA currently is the only agency with this requirement. If your drawing benefits from OPM, DFAS, VA no problem. More than likely however if your drawing benefits from them your also drawing SS.

Last edited by Budman1 (14 January 2013 03:45:44)

#31 14 January 2013 04:59:08

Jaitch
Jaitch
Buon Ma Thuot, DakLak

Re: Bank for direct deposit from USA Social Security and VA

Budman1 wrote:

Please allow me to clarify a few points. The two links below give the background and requirements for drawing SS here in Vietnam:

That's why you draw in the USA through an accommodation (relatives) address. The fact that you spend elsewhere is not drawing elsewhere. This why you need two bank accounts.

Or get an accommodation address in Canada. Canada's banking laws are stiffer than the US and with better privacy.

The monthly reporting can be a real pain, especially if you live in the wilds and have limited transportation.

The worst thing you can do is to have your benefits shipped direct to VN for, as we all know, easy in and very hard to get out.

And they call it the land of the free! The US, that is.

The bottom line is all they care about is avoiding paying stiffs.

Last edited by Jaitch (14 January 2013 08:57:20)

#32 14 January 2013 05:06:34

perry88
perry88
Rockville, MD

Re: Bank for direct deposit from USA Social Security and VA

I've seen it written that funds are very difficult to get out of VN.  What are the restrictions and limitations?

#35 14 January 2013 08:54:21

Jaitch
Jaitch
Buon Ma Thuot, DakLak

Re: Bank for direct deposit from USA Social Security and VA

perry88 wrote:

I've seen it written that funds are very difficult to get out of VN.  What are the restrictions and limitations?

Unless you provide a trail of proof showing you actually imported the funds, you will have difficulty in getting SBV (State Bank of VietNam) permission.

Using an ATM and keeping the receipts (that conveniently fade after a year) is not sufficient.

Using SWIFT transfers generates reams of the 'right' paper trail and, with a banks assistance, sufficient evidence of the source of the funds.

Salaries can also be exported but again supporting paperwork has to be provided.

You can remove up to USD$7,000 odd without permission but there is always the chance you will be challenged.

Funds can be imported by hand but they have to be declared - always a good idea for large amounts as it means that VN Customs has paperwork on it's importation, paperwork that's accepted by SBV.

Most all companies involved in international transactions have these problems and many apply prior to placing an order for permission to spend the money. It helps VN plan it's economy.

VN had a trading surplus in the last reporting period PLUS visa fees went up - think of the easy money they make on them.

#36 14 January 2013 14:11:38

perry88
perry88
Rockville, MD

Re: Bank for direct deposit from USA Social Security and VA

Thanks for the info, Jaitch and Budman1.  The rates here in the US are less than 1% so about once a year I would get enough interest to buy a cup of coffee.  Leaving money in VN for 5 years at around 15% means my money doubles in 5 years.  My wife and I were hoping to use the money to buy tickets back to visit and expenses so we would need it transferred back to the US.  It would be well under the $7,000 so I don't think it would be a problem.

#37 14 January 2013 15:24:26

Jaitch
Jaitch
Buon Ma Thuot, DakLak

Re: Bank for direct deposit from USA Social Security and VA

perry88 wrote:

... The rates here in the US are less than 1% so about once a year I would get enough interest to buy a cup of coffee.  Leaving money in VN for 5 years at around 15% means my money doubles in 5 years. ...

Bad news! Inflation in VN is always above the interest rate!

Same with Greece 20 years ago, interest was at 19% and higher

Last edited by Jaitch (14 January 2013 15:24:56)

#38 15 January 2013 05:19:00

expatviet

Re: Bank for direct deposit from USA Social Security and VA

We can ALL agree every thing change, we all continue change
over time..

Change is inevitable, people slow to adjust, adopt
accept new regulations, new policy, unclear adjustment
translated, assumed? by Government employees.. take time to analyze consequences...

Social Security benefits are earned! are due payable to the
people identified as beneficiary on Social Security records, irregardless of what country these people are demanding their
legal recorded bank money or retirement pension forwarded... This was part of USA citizen, Constitutional rights today new
change of policy regualtion new banking translations     

Forwarding Social Security Government banking is translated
policy, translated procedure, somebody quickly signed, authorized, declaring how USA Government banking is verified.

Identify and authorize who received Social Security... Are they alive or dead? Are they inside USA? Are they registered
Homeland Security? Immigration? TSA profile outside the USA?

Are they USA citizen? File 2013 with IRS inside and
outside the USA? All translated, derivatives of Patriot Act
translated enforcements, depend where USA citizen resident!

Arizona police policy, ask USA proof of citizen, T.S.A.
a division of Homeland Security, strip searches suspected tourist, question traveling outside the USA with over $7,000 paper money.

Social Security randomly checks recipients inside the
USA? Percipient alive or dead?.. The recipient must report
new address, new residence after 6 month, living outside the USA! Vietnam you report to a distant USA embassy every month
or else Social Security payments stops at USA bank.. Then your options to return to USA for one month before payment is
verified started or try the USA embassy to plead Social Security why you failed to report..  ..

Some people are gambling Social Security will not telephone
or will not mail 10 day return dated verification who is receiving Social Security money... Most people are randomly
asked to visit their local Social Security Office.. 

This in their favor but 2013 introduced change to paper less
Government electronic monitored money.

Social Security payments are direct deposited to a USA FDIC monitored bank account..flagged if money is continuously transferred ATM out of the USA..

The translated Patriot Act and Homeland Security tracing where the money travels using electronic coded personal identity of all USA citizens traveling living abroad...

If USA Social Security beneficiary do not have FDIC banking
account then a Credit card is issued but only for use inside the USA, restricted access to paper money...

You can read all about how and where you can use the new Social Security plastic credit card
http://godirect.org/about-faq/#Option without bank account

Here is a recent story of an older retired expat USA citizen
who did have long term established USA banking forwarded to
ASIA before Social Security?, Homeland Security?, IRS? computerized search located failure to report retirement and living outside the USA...

Social Security Thailand policies to change? depend on
who is translating what location in or out of USA resident.

************************************************************
   Again I thank you all for disclosing your personal experience with Bank Of Bangkok and receiving Social Security EFT transfers out of NY with no impediments..

I can only disclose in these postings my personal experience which may or may not be of interest or can put on alert, prepare some of you xpat readers...

~2 year ago using Thai Internet cafe and Skype I contacted Wells Fargo
Bank USA.... verify new VISA ATM card..

I was put on hold for ~5 minutes...transferred to ??? unidentified USA agency that asked my identify over phone, requested SSA number, DMV Identity (expired) was not accepted, old phone number was not accepted, old address was not accepted... passport number was not accepted.

(When I left USA I setup auto pay for Verizon telephone, P.O.Box address, auto
credit cards billing payment from saving deposit... same some of you have stated but having no USA identity problems..

Saving deposit was attached to ATM paying all USA bills and also paying ATM usage in Thailand, I had online Internet banking with Wells Fargo, they sent a upgraded Dollar limit with a new ATM card..

I was trying to make sure the new ATM card was activated with SKYPE 800 Wells Fargo activation code dialed number to activate new ATM card...

To keep this short they? refused identify me over a phone as I hear another
agent in background talk "tell him we are closing his accounts, where does
he want the money sent", I begged them I can fax my identity to their number if they give me a fax number! They did not give a fax number and did not identify
who they work for.. I had no idea what was this USA agency tied to Social Security..

Reply was forget it... I asked them identify who they are? I asked what was their name? Who do you work for? What was I to do over a phone identify my Social Security number from Thailand?

They replied to contact some 800 number I was unable to capture as I lost control over the !#%!%# situation.. I could not believe this mystery security
agency, (having authority to close bank account), over phone after I gave them my Social Security number!

The account was terminated, closed with prejudice, a Wells Fargo check was mailed to my old USA address not as requested to Thailand!!! The mail check forwarded to me and took 45 days to cash returned back to Wells Fargo USA

During this 45 days I decided &@^* Wells Fargo incident and contacted my
other bank BofA, asked to change my bill payments that was handled by Wells
Fargo... once again I was on Skype hold for 5 minutes and transferred to some
weird mystery USA agency.. The agency asked me the same questions and
again I offered to fax my identity from Thailand.. asking what do they want from
me? I am in Thailand what do you want me to do?

They decided close ALL bank account... again received checks mailed old USA adders that forwarded and again deposited from Thailand after 45 days...

I have no USA bank access due to Social Security bank identity registered
change of address? A relocation status? Have no idea what happen here?

Bank savings was locked into a 10 year 6% return before all the USA
banks went under 0.8% return, 10 year term deposited with penalty to withdraw
until maturity!

Money was stolen by the mystery agency closing a 10 year, 6% compunded
term deposit and total trashing of a USA citizen established bank accounts because of Social Security identification protocol derivatives?..

Today, as all of you do not have USA 3 month residence history on SSA file! Also do not have current, updated DMV license, expired living in Thailand, only a USA passport is updated.. No USA 1040 taxable income filing since retirement

So thank you all for listening and answering questions to my personal experience
using Social Security number identification for banking outside the USA.. '

As an old fart I can only suggest you prepare for the new fiscal cliff tsunami and
wish us all luck that we can pursue retirement freedom and financial pension delivery, living outside the USA after the 2013 cut backs commence new policies

#39 15 January 2013 08:02:18

Jaitch
Jaitch
Buon Ma Thuot, DakLak

Re: Bank for direct deposit from USA Social Security and VA

2expatviet;
you sound a bit like a prepper!

Some people are gambling Social Security will not telephone or will not mail 10 day return dated verification who is receiving Social Security money... Most people are randomly asked to visit their local Social Security Office.

I know three people drawing US benefits who are not resident in the USA and one of which obtained legal advice. Any request to visit can b delayed by a week or two as you are 'out of town'.

Not even the US Government can insist you have a telephone, e-mail address or anything. They are forced to use good old unreliable mail/post sent to a friends/accommodation address.

One of the three did get an invitation to visit, which he did, and he visited, and asked unpleasantly why they wanted to waste his time. H never heard from them again (for a visit).

There are so many ways to communicate these days without leaving mouse trails. Silent Circle is my new favourite service and the number is two-way (incoming - outgoing) and not even the FBI/CIA/Uncle Sam can trace those calls as there is no logging and the crypto keys dies within a day.

I have lived here in VN for a touch over 20 years and have dealt with all three governments whose passports I hold. Never a problem. All through buffered e-mail and VPNs.

Social Security payments are direct deposited to a USA FDIC monitored bank account .. flagged if money is continuously transferred ATM out of the USA.

This is why a 1 + 2 account system is needed. The US government money goes into an InterNet savings account. (I haven't seen that bank for 9 years and it has physically moved once). From this account you can electronically settle debts, pay insurance premiums, etc.

This is legally where you are 'drawing' your pension - if you receive pension.

And you can transfer money to your other account or relatives (for them to forward).

My other, different, bank is also an InterNet account, one savings and the other current. Only the current has ATM access. It is from there you transfer money to yourself (or through a relative).

This is not drawing on any US government money.

The US Government is a pain, the other two governments are so laid back they must be asleep. One government doesn't even let you physically visit their office, there are 'service' offices which are essentially one-stop places for either the equivalent of federal or state governments, where you transact all your business with that level of government.

Electronic banking is good ... it means you don't have to bother cashing cheques. Or physically be there.

I file tax returns based upon the money earned in each of these countries, in fact one of them I hadn't filed for eight years and they ended up owing me money and even paid interest on the late refunds.

Everything depends on careful planning. And attitude. Where I am and what I am doing is no one's business other than my family and the government of the country I am residing in.

Attitude is where some uppity civil servant tries to pull a trick, and then I have my lawyer write them.

Most of this bull has started, as you correctly point out, after OBL re-arranged the New York skyline. I am fortunate since I have spent my earlier career in communications and electronics, even worked on the Autovon and Autosevocom. No telephone, no cell and all the technology in the world won't touch you.

So forget about the 'infinite' reach of Uncle Sam, it's illusory. Many people, within the USA, don't have telephone, InterNet, cell and even running water and electricity.

Accommodation addresses are legal. How do you think people roaming around Alaska, the interior of Texas, etc. get their mail? The postal service sure doesn't make calls.

The one thing you might be guilty of is omission. Omitting to tell them where you actually are. But with an accommodation address they never seem concerned.

And unless you have masses of complex stock and bond business you, as a pensioner with 'fixed' income, are practically off the tax inspectors radar.

With today's transportation you can be back in the USA within a day or two. I return to Canada and the USA once every 5 years to renew my passports and driving licences.

I am not going to join the dots for you, you can do that, and enjoy an Uncle Sam free life.

P.S. I always re-enter the USA through Canada and I also remove any visas in my passport!

#40 16 January 2013 11:22:33

expatviet

Re: Bank for direct deposit from USA Social Security and VA

Hello Jaitch

I see says the blind man, "stirred but not shaken" in pursuit
of freedom to collect retirement money from Social Security.

Most expats moved to South East Asia motivated by affordable
retirement expenses.. You can always pay more but not get
more..

USA built smoke and mirror blankets to cover printing money
adjusting imported liability. Move to hammer USA costs of
living closer to South East Asia cost of living. We will
pay more but not get more.. 

Expats who decided to get more and pay less are in Vietnam,
encouraged, retired in peace, enjoy warm friendly old age.

However, Social Security / GOV money access is not same as
for retired inside USA.. As we get old we lost family and friends to contact ask for help during years of retirement..
The old age is a handicap that slows down traveling, hopping
planes, do visa border runs, do embassy alive not dead runs.. after all we just settled for affordable peace, relaxed happy
retirement.
     
Thing are changing with global paper money. The message is
cut backs, policy adjustments, and rash decisions to show
proof of authorized management delegation, seldom digested
as a tested cost effective solution enforced on the majority

I like it "stirred but not shaken" traveling over years, but
some times concerned over global shape of things on horizons.
Here example of a email from U.K., retired soliciting actions
As the US Dollar continue lost exchange value again today

  ---------- Forwarded message --------M
Subject: FW: SRP not an Entitlement!!!
To:

The wording is this is a bit weird in places but I think that may be because the author was so angry - there are some very valid facts here!

-----------------------------

The only way things will change is when this kind of email translates into voting results at the polls
-- as of NOW -- PENSIONERS out number ANY OTHER type of voter even by race - religion - or age ---
WHEN ARE PENSIONERS gonna wake up and understand WE have the power to shape legislation, all WE need is the willpower to do so--
PLEASE SEND THIS TO ALL YOUR FRIENDS -- MAYBE THEN THE "GREY REVOLUTION" will begin --- MAYBE !!
POLITICIANS PLEASE PAY ATTENTION !


FORWARD THIS TO EVERYBODY !!!


‘Entitlement’ my arse, I paid good money for my State Pension and other benefits!!!! Just because they borrowed that money, doesn't make my benefits some kind of charity or handout!!
Gold plated MP pensions and Civil Service Government benefits, aka free healthcare, outrageous retirement packages, 67 paid holidays, 20 weeks paid vacation, unlimited paid sick days, now that's welfare, and they have the nerve to call me a 'greedy pensioner' and my retirement, an ‘entitlement’ !!!!!!.....scroll down................



What the HELL's wrong with us?
WAKE UP BRITAIN !!!!

Someone please tell me what the HELL's wrong with all the people that run this country!!!!!!

We're "broke" & can't help our own Pensioners, Veterans, Orphans, Homeless etc.,???????????
but spent 1.2 billions of £££s for G-20 events! In the last few months we have provided aid to India, Greece and Turkey. And now Afghanistan, Pakistan ...... home of Bin Laden. Literally, BILLIONS of POUNDS!!!

Our retirees living on a 'fixed income' receive no aid nor do they get any breaks while our Government and religious organisations pour Hundreds of Billions of ££££££s and tons of food into foreign countries!
They call Old Age 'security' and Healthcare 'an entitlement' even though most of us have been paying for it all our working lives and now when it’s time for us to collect, the government is running out of money. Why did the government borrow it in the first place?
We have hundreds of adoptable children who are shoved aside to make room for the adoption of foreign orphans.

GREAT BRITAIN: a country where we have homeless without shelter, children going to bed hungry, hospitals being closed, average income families who can't afford dental care, elderly going without 'needed' meds and having to travel 100s of miles for medical care with no reimbursement of cost, vehicles we can't afford fuel for, lack of affordable housing and mentally ill without treatment - etc., etc.

YET.....
They have a 'benefit' for the people of foreign countries ... ships and planes lining up with food, water, tents, clothes, bedding, doctors and medical supplies.
Imagine if the *GOVERNMENT* gave 'US' the same support they give to other countries.

Sad isn't it?

99% of people won't have the guts to forward this.
I'm one of the 1% -- I Just Did.

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