Your everything visa and cedula related Cuenca thread.

I had another apoplectic fit this morning over a blog article I picked up on my RSS reader.

If I have been given a permanent residency, do I automatically get given a cédula card?

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Yes, every citizen and every permanent resident has a cédula. It's the national ID card. Everything you need to do legally, governmentally, financially and sometimes commercially requires your cédula number.

Not only does this blogger not answer the question that was addressed to him specifically (is it automatic?), but he answers with a statement that is clearly wrong: "every citizen and every permanent resident has a cédula".

Not every permanent resident living in Ecuador has a cedula. There will soon be many more expats living in this town without cedulas because of the recent requirement that an apostilled birth certificate be provided to obtain one.

His subsequent statement is also wrong: "Everything you need to do legally, governmentally, financially and sometimes commercially requires your cédula number."

That is clearly an extreme overgeneralization of reality. I assure you that a permanent resident without a ceudla, can find things they can do legally and fiancially with only their passport, such as purchase property.

I subscribe to the following Yahoo group.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ExpatsInEcuador/

Picked up the following message posted by someone today related to getting your cedula.

IF YOU ARE ABOUT READY TO GO FOR YOUR ECUADORIAN CEDULA, AND DIVORCED OR SINGLE – HERE IS A NEW ONE FOR YOU!

After only three (3) years, 3 lawyers, and almost $6,000 in expenses, I finally got my indefinite retirement visa in my passport. (NOTHING had to be changed from my original submittal.)

My lawyer told me, last Friday, to meet her in Quito on the following Tuesday (with some other new papers, in addition to those which had already been delivered to the Ecuadorian government, for my visa).

I went to the Registro Civil in Quito with my lawyer and ALL of my (NEW) papers, to have my picture taken and my Cedula issued. Strangely, there was nobody waiting in line. We went straight up to hand in my papers.

The guy looked at my papers for about 1 minute and told the Dra. that my papers were not complete. She was shocked – she had taken people through there last week with the same documents (Birth certificate, Apostille, translation and notario, along with a light or water bill (to prove the address – the landlady's water bill was just fine).

He said I DIDN'T HAVE A LETTER OR FORM FROM THE US CONSOLATE IN ECUADOR proving that I am SINGLE. (They don't even have such a form, in the US Consulate) She challenged him, and he opened and showed her a NEW list of requirements for obtaining an Ecuadorian Cedula - that was dated THAT MONDAY - this was on Wednesday.

I tried to get an appointment with the US Consulate in Quito, but couldn't, Sooooo, I went to Guayaquil to the US Consulate, and they told me, "No, we are not authorized to issue anything like that. We'll have to talk to the Ecuadorian government, and establish a national policy for foreign consulates." (or words to that effect) The supervisor at the Consulate, whom I was talking to said he is beginning to get queries from other people about this brand new Ecuadorian law.

So, here I am, with an indefinite Ecuadorian visa in my passport – and NO CEDULA. (For those who don't know, a Cedula is a plastic - drivers-license-size national ID card.)

THE ECUADORIAN GOVERNMENT HAS FINALLY INVENTED THE PERFECT "CATCH 22" TO KEEP FROM HAVING TO ISSUE CREDENTIALS TO US. (At least for those who don't have a marriage license on file in Ecuador.)

I am pondering the possibility of just staying here, with my visa – and no cedula (What will I miss out on – my half-price bus tickets…?) OR investigating another country who will be more receptive to gringo expats.

If you are in this boat (single or divorced), just be advised and proceed (where) accordingly.

Nards,

I just came back from Cuenca yesterday Nov 9th after a three week exploratory trip.  As an African American woman, I experienced blatant racism in Cuenca, which is not what never gets discussed in these blogs.  Perhaps because not many expats are non-white.  I will state emphatically that for each stupid (local) person who treated me badly, I met at least five who were warm, gracious and welcoming.

That sais, I now also have to worry about proving I am single???

Since you are already in the process, I wonder if perhaps scans of pages 1 and the signature page of your form 1040 for the past few years, notarized and sent through the US Consulate to the Ecuadorian (?) consulate, would serve as proof?  I am just thinking that it would be a document from the US government and if it goes directly from one consulate to the other it should improve the quality of the integrity of the document.  If something like this is not acceptable, one would hope that will at least give examples of what is deemed acceptable. 

Regarding your comment about perhaps another place that is more gringo-friendly (or words to that effect), I was so upset when I had back to back incidents of racism in the first two weeks that, while there, I checked out the residency requirements for Costa Rica, where it is warm all the time.  Bottom line is that you don't choose CR for lower cost of living nor the ease of becoming permanent.  The residency requirements are financially very restrictive.

It would be very interesting to hear how this pans out, as I will be in the same 'single' boat.

Blessings...

Pulpeddoes,

I think on form 1040 the checkbox "single" means Not Currently Married while "single" on the immigration form means "Never Married". In other words, divorced people become "single" for purposes of filing taxes, while divorced people become "divorced" for purposes of Ecuadorian immigration. Therefore, the 1040 would not offer sufficient proof.

The problem is the U.S. federal government doesn't really have a means to know your marital status. Therefore, single and divorcees may have to do without cedulas, unless the Ecuadorian government modifies this requirement.

I think you are correct.  If you are divorced, you have a divorce decree to show the authorities, and married couples have a marriage certificate.  But possibly a drivers license would show you are single.  Not where I live but.....

Well peeps,

I am glad to say I overcame this town's notorious blogs and its noted husband and wife HACK lawyer team to get my resident visa. It took 6 months longer than it should have, but better late than never.
I had a small hiccup with my translated police report a couple weeks back that required me to get an additional notary stamp on one of the pages, but otherwise no major issues.

On the day I got my visa, I first had to go to the Central bank on Calle Larga to hand over a few documents to a banker named Pablo Cuesta. I learned one thing that I had been wondering about since I started this process: how does does the government assure that I don't cash out my certificate of deposit after getting my visa? While I have heard all kinds of explanations from bloggers, none mentioned they take possession of the piece of paper that you received (the original) for your certificate of deposit. DOH!

Now, I will be attempting to get my cedula.  I will once again use this town's bloggers as the source of motivation for getting it!!!!

Regarding the cedula process, I read the following on the Cuenca highlife blog.

na Maria Serrano, Regional Coordinator of the Ministry of the Exterior, who heads the immigration office, announced two changes she says will make life easier for expats: the transfer of the drivers' license program management from the police to the municipal government as well as the possibility of an English language driving test; and, the elimination of a requirement that foreigners who have never been married present a statement from the U.S. government that they are legally single in order to obtain a cedula, the Ecuadorian national indentification card.

Today, I had my third trip to the Registro Civil within the past two week, in an attempt to get my cedula. It is located adjacent to Parque Luis Cordero.

First trip they gave me a form to fill out which I then had to take to a Notary, who then prepared a separate document. I could swear it was the same form I filled when I got the Certificate of Empadronamiento from the immigration office, which is part of this process. The form asks about a dozen questions such as your nationality, parents nationality etc.

I actually had to go into the Lawyer's office while he signed off on it telling me that if I perjure myself, bad things will happen to me, blah, blah blah.  They told me at the outset of the appointment that if I didn't speak Spanish they couldn't provide this service to me since I needed to understand what the Laywer was telling me in Spanish. So I duped them into thinking I spoke Spanish.

So, on the second trip to the Registo Civil, they told me I was missing the required notary seal. I had taken the birth certificate for translation to the University of Cuenca language department for translation and the secretary had told me I didn't need that stamp, since they had their own stamp. So, I had to make a another trip to a notary to get that seal. 

Today was my third trip and I thought everything was going to blow up based on the questions and scrutiny of my documents, but she asked questions of her supervisor who told her to proceed. After taking fingerprints, completing a signature and having my photo taken (no smiling), I was told to return Monday afternoon to pick up my cedula.

Here are two things worth pointing out.

1. She told me the cedula is good for 10 years.
2. They kept my birth certificate.  While I am not real surprised they kept it, it pisses me off because I may need it in the future for some other purpose and will have to go through the same process to get another copy.

MLutero, the Washington Post this week had an interesting article of the US green card process. It is much more complicated, time consuming and expensive than Ecuador's visa process.

Ecuadorians pay a non-refundable $160 fee to submit a USA tourist visa request with approval far from certain.

Nards,

So....one way ticket will not stop us at customs, cause it would be a huge help if we can get a one way.  We will be getting our pensioners visa before we arrive.  If there is a problem, do we buy the return trip at the airport?  Just askin.....

Denise,

I don't remember anyone checking whether I had a return ticket at any point of my trip to Ecuador.

However, I thought somebody (Spike?) had commented in this forum about needing to provide a return ticket for a trip in Customs.

So, unless you hear from a few people on this forum confirming my experience, you might want to make a call to the Ecuadorian embassy before booking your ticket.

It seems to me having your residencia visa in advance makes it unnecessary.

I went to Registro Civil today to pick up my cedula this afternoon. I figured I would be in there 15 minutes tops, but turned into a two and half hour fiasco.

Apparently the girl who processed my cedula had failed to enter my mother's maiden name, so as a consequence they had to do my fingerprints and photo over again.  After sending back to the window to wait for my name to be called, the same girl tracked me down and said she made another error and that she would need to take my fingerprints and photo again. Then she told me it would be 10 more minutes before they call my name. I ended up waiting 2 hours before I approached the window and asked for my cedula. Then the lady went to the backroom and tracked it down. The cedula is the size of a driver's license and fits nicely into my money clip. I won't have to bother with carrying my passport or a copy anymore.

So now that I have my cedula, I consider Cuenca MY town. I am taking charge of the discourse from the bloggers this point forward.

Unless someone poses a question at some point, I consider this thread CLOSED!!!!!!

You know I have to laugh.  While going through the Visa and Cedula process, I was always putting down my occupation as "Jubilado" (Retired) and my highest level of education as "Secundario" (high school). I did so because I was told it would make the whole process smoother. Otherwise you have to proove your occupation and education level with apostilled documents which would be a pain the a**.

In any case, I just looked at the profession that is reflected on my cedula and it states "Ninguno" (None).

I can only assume that the fact I obtained an investor's visa instead of a retirement visa made "Jubilado" an unacceptable occuapational description.

Hello everybody sitting in this Cedula and other administration mess!

I spoke to my lawyer today and he said the Registros Civil, both in Quito and Cuenca now ask for updated marriage certificates. As ours is of 2010 (our residency process startes 09/11 and ended 12/12) of course it's outdated in their opinion.
I don't know any country, where marriage certificates expire, maybe in Ecuador? Who sets the expiry date?
We'll travel to Cuenca next week (5 hours) with a letter of my lawyers and if they decline the application they will sue them.
It's maybe the only way now to end this reckless, lawless and arbitrarily behaviour at both the administration of the Registro Civil and the Estranjerias.

I have been living in Namibia (southern Africa) before for 10 years, and immigration is tough there. Anyway investing real money there helps and legal system is functional.
In Ecuador it's default, corrupt. And if someone invests even a million (in a legal business), creates jobs etc... nobody cares!
And it's a pity nobody has the guts to legally challange this messy administration.

In Ecuador every third let himself being called ingeniero, arquitecto, doctor or profesor. And half of them can't even multiply 12x10 without using a smartphone.

I'm fedup and tired. Knowing almost all other South American countries, my next country of choice would be Chile!

By the way Nards, you wrote "I assure you that a permanent resident without a ceudla, can find things they can do legally and fiancially with only their passport, such as purchase property."

My lawyer told me, it's compulsory having one. Is he wrong with his statement? Would not wonder!

it's very helpful. i am processing my resident visa now with a lawyer in Cuenca. Hope it will get a happy and quick result.