Prison via WhatsApp

  01/24/24  I've received a message via WhatApp from a Brazilian bureaucrat demanding my presence on April 18 in women's court on penalty of prison.
   

    -@alan279

Uh-oh! 😨

https://www.expat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=1055306

Scott and tangled webs?

   01/24/24 I've received a message via WhatApp from a Brazilian bureaucrat demanding my presence on April 18 in women's court on penalty of prison.
   

    -@alan279

Are you sure that it's for real, and not one someone connected with one of the women you've pissed off just spoofing you?

The "Delegacia do Mulheres" is for spousal abuse complaints of a physical nature.

Obviously, you'll take a criminal lawyer with you if this is a valid summons.

Never heard of police or any other authority requesting an appearance of a person via an app however.

Service of Process by WhatsApp is legal depending on jurisdiction.

Here is an interesting case where the electronic communication was accepted by a court --> https://chambers.com/articles/service-o … y-whatsapp

By and large service by whatsapp is used as a "deterrent" or "incentive to resolve".  In more serious cases, it was suggested that "a complete copy of the procedural case" to be part of the service.

Were you served with "a complete copy of the procedural case" with your whatsapp message?  I am not a legal expert but if you were just given notice without providing a copy of the legal filing against you, this may be an indication that a settlement is preferred to a court battle.

Please note that in the article above, there is a statement that you have the right to contest service via whatsapp because being served via electronic means is quite different from being served in person.

Service via whatsapp has been around for a while and your local lawyer should have a few tricks in the bag to address that.

I was sent a photo of an official looking document.

    I was sent a photo of an official looking document.
   

    -@alan279

If this were me, I would get my lawyer to talk to the bureaucrat - to find out what is the real ask.  May be your ex wants something small that you can agree over a phone call without going to court.

But I would not recommend talking to the bureaucrat yourself as this may escalate the situation - better get some legal help to do the opposite instead.

Looks like you really need to get a lawyer....

I think the doc says I can get more info on gov.br, but I cant find anything on the website.

My lawyer is out of town until after Carnaval…

    I've received a message via WhatApp from a Brazilian bureaucrat demanding my presence on April 18 in women's court on penalty of prison.
   

    -@alan279

She is playing you. 

If you haven't lift a finger, this is merely an intimidation tactic.  Probably with no legal standing. 

And no Court of Law , in any Jurisdiction , will summon you on Whatsapp.  It has to be a Court Issued Summons, delivered by a Clerk or Messenger to have legal validity,  Or an email from a verifiable domain.   Chances are, she asked someone to fabricate this as a shakedown tactic.

It get e-mails on dues I never incurred, I ignore them entirely. 

And you had it coming to you. Keep on waltzing with the ladies, this is what you get.

You want to get frisky, go see about a reputable cat house.

    I was sent a photo of an official looking document.
   

    -@alan279

Which can be forged. A paper needs to be send in to make for a valid summons, and you can call the Courthouse ( Forum da Comarca ), to verify its validity.

Despite its popularity, Whatsapp has no legal standing as a form of legal communication.

And there's no need for an attorney. A visit to the "Forum da Comarca" with the Clerk will put this matter to rest.

And do yourself a favor, will you???? Get out of Dodge.  Go to a place where people are industrious and stay out of other people's business. 

100% agree with @realestatebroker. No way will a court summons be issued by Whatsapp, it has to be delivered by hand, and signed by you as received. Been on both sides a couple of times, and every time a court officer has been to my house in person. Worry thee not - this is just a scare tactic, from someone who knows someone...

...although I disagree on one point - Whatsapp messages can be used in evidence in a court of law, but not as a summons.

    ...although I disagree on one point - Whatsapp messages can be used in evidence in a court of law, but not as a summons.
   

    -@Peter Itamaraca

Agreed upon.  As a search of evidence in communication of parties to commit crime or fraud.

A few years ago, there was a tug of war between the Brazilian Government's Policia Federal , wanting to pry on whatsapp messages send and received by drug traffickers, and Facebook, then the parent company who owned whatsapp.

Folks at Facebook were grandstanding, ( while allowing US intelligence agencies full access under court order ), dodging the Brazilian Court Orders, alleging Whatsapp  messages were encrypted, and an individual's right to privacy.  Which was provend to be a lie, thanks to Edward Snowden.

Alan is under no legal danger, yet, he needs to use better judgement with the ladies. 

If one think American females can be vile, Brazilian ones can outdo them in a heartbeat.

@sprealestatebroker you forgot to add they love knives n scissors!

    @sprealestatebroker you forgot to add they love knives n scissors!
   

    -@Cserebogar

Well, maybe there is some Lorena Bobbit out there.  And a philandering hurband. 

On  second throughts it was....

The Kitano/Yoki Brands, were a local packaged food company founded by a Japanese emigree.  It became a household brand name. You would buy corn meal, peanuts, pop corn kernels, an assortment of other floors short of wheat ( corn, cassava, roasted wheat ). 

Bought by General Mills,  American buyers realized they had a gold mine, so  they maintained the original  brand names. No Wheaties, Fruit Loops.   Neither Kitano or Yoki got in into the Cereal business.  That's still pretty much a Kellogg's market.

The grandson heir, who inherited most of the Estate after the consummated transaction, lived a profligate life.  He married some trophy wife, a former call girl.  Yet he maintained his old habits, and kept on buying the services outside his marriage.  She, the one who shall be obeyed, found out,  got into a fit, and murdered her philandering husband, and cut him into pieces.  A clear premeditated case.

Not long ago, crimes of passion could land you an acquital before the courts. The most notorious case being of a jealous husband, who murdered his wife, a local socialite (ngela Diniz ). Raul Fernando do Amaral Street, aka Doca Street.  It made news all over the country.   Late 70's.   He was acquitted on close range shots.

Folks, you have to pass judgement on people around here.  Appearances can be deceiving, and your lust can land you on hot waters.

@alan279 I cannot even begin to add anything substantial to this, except my condolences for this Bugunca.  I have subscribed to this thread on Expat.Com, in case you want to make a movie about it. I am a pretty good writer.  Unfortunately since your lawyers are out of town I cannot recommend any, though I CAN tell you what lawyers NOT to use.

Roddie in Retirement

@roddiesho Thanks, I have a list of lawyers I don't recommend. 😉

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-n7aw8zSeI

A must watch as it pertains to this thread. 30 minutes of Brasilian comedy at it's finest.

Juliana Paes in ............."A Justiceira do Olinda"................

There is another thing....

Granted the ole foggie has not done anything wrong other than consentual engagement between two adults,, what appears to me is that she has engaged into two forms of shakedown....

1.Blackmail ( chantagem ). Legtitimacy and legality are a gray area.

2.Fraud (Estelionato). This carries penalties if it meets the burden of proof.  A Fraudster is a "Estelionatario .

If you can prove either one of them, then gather your evidence, go to the near police precint, and file a criminal charge ( registrar um boletim de ocorrencia ) against the suspecting perpetrator.

She gets served  the notice,  or receives the visit from the local cops, you rest assured she won't bother you anymore. She crosses path with you, she will change the side of the street. 

Estelionato is a crime against property ( that includes cash and other possessions ) in which a person obtains an illicit advantage for themselves or someone else. In addition to causing harm to the victim and gaining advantages through induction into error, that is, using tricks to deceive the victim

Remember, you have to be able to prove it, and once you do,  communicate to the local chief of police. ( Delegado ). Or else she can sue you for libel.  if you enter a charge, then, it  is on the records, and that alone affords you some level of protection against any false accusation she might inflict upon you.

@sprealestatebroker I was just served a restraining order. In person.

Time to lawyer up.

You're not a citizen according to your profile, so, much more could be at stake here.

My takeaway is you've run into a professional golpista here, and you are not the first horse she saddled up in search of a payday.

Expect her to claim 3-4 times in 45 days from now that you violated the RO, even though you did nothing. That will prompt the cops to act against you.

I also believe the what's app message could criminally cause her problems as per Tony's post above.

To do nothing is to act guilty. Lawyer up, attack, and leave town for a few months or permanently. Change ALL your contact info, email, cell, and when you leave town tell no one except your lawyer. She will hang herself thru self incrimination.

You cannot show ANY weakness. If my suspiscions are correct, you need to bury her without emotion.

@Gasparzinho 777 Thanks, but I've weathered many divorces. How many have you suffered?

Alan

If you're suggesting that your track record came with some sort of accumulated knowledge...........

@Gasparzinho 777 I'm just suggesting that I've made more marital mistakes than most.

Alan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-n7aw8zSeI
A must watch as it pertains to this thread. 30 minutes of Brasilian comedy at it's finest.

Juliana Paes in ............."A Justiceira do Olinda"................
   

    -@Gasparzinho 777

That's really funny.  I had a good laugh.

"Even the devil does not know where women sharpen their knives."

           Latvian proverb

Thank you for sharing.

@alan279 Sorry, I hadn't checked this thread out in awhile, so I thought you might be out of jail by now.  Sorry I can't add anything to you and @Gasparzinho 777  's Conversation i have what the Brazilians call a "Stable Union".

Roddie in Retirement

@roddiesho  I haven't gone to jail yet.

I'm late into the conversation, but I can't believe any court would send someone a summons by whatsapp.  It's a social messaging app from a private company for goodness sake.  I personally use Telegram, LOL. 

A lawyer friend thinks the photo of a summons on WhatsApp is probably real.

The restraining order was delivered in person a couple days later.

Yeah its different, If its an official business on whatsapp, My bank regularly I can reach out to or they can contact me via whatsapp. Saves so much time!

    @sprealestatebroker I was just served a restraining order. In person.
   

    -@alan279

Restraining Order means, here and Stateside, you can't go near the b....

That is a blessing in disguise, come to think of it. 

Take your lumps, lick your wounds, and get out of Dodge. 

There are other places to venture.  Use better judgement next time. 

@mikehunter I'm with you. l thought a summons had to delivered in person to the recipient.

        @sprealestatebroker I was just served a restraining order. In person.        -@alan279

Restraining Order means, here and Stateside, you can't go near the b....

That is a blessing in disguise, come to think of it. 

Take your lumps, lick your wounds, and get out of Dodge. 

There are other places to venture.  Use better judgement next time. 
   

    -@sprealestatebroker

Agree with @sprealestatebroker here.  It's important to stay clear.  Or the next step is an ankle monitor that you have to pay for.....

Not fun at all... And not worth it...

I'm prohibited from being within 500 meters of her two addresses. One address is across the street from where I live, about 20 meters distant.

@alan279 Glad it's over with Does this mean you have to move?

Roddie in Retirement

@Pablo888 Believe it or not, I was approached by a young man, while I was in the park with Simba. He put his leg up on the seat and it looked like an American Ankle Bracelet. I told my wife about it and before I said anything she said it WAS an ankle bracelet. Of course I have very, very protective dogs and SIMBA and PANDORA were barking and biting their heads off before I even noticed it.

I may be old, but I am well protected.

Roddie in Retirement

  02/03/24  I'm prohibited from being within 500 meters of her two addresses. One address is across the street from where I live, about 20 meters distant.
   

    -@alan279

Do you have a lawyer on this yet?