The Vietnamese LOUDNESS SYNDROME

I have my theory why all voice/music volumes are turned to the highest level. What ideas do you have?

    -@AlbertD827

You ask as if that's a bad thing?

@OceanBeach92107

LOL!!

Well, if the loudness invades, what was the quiet place of many homes, then yes, it is annoying noise pollution. Now, do you have a theory? 

Thanks, Albert

    Well, if the loudness invades, what was the quiet place of many homes, then yes, it is annoying noise pollution. Now, do you have a theory? 
Thanks, Albert
   

    -@AlbertD827

You have your answer.

YOU (a foreigner) consider it to be "annoying noise pollution".

For whatever reasons, your Vietnamese neighbors are not making it stop.

So in order for someone to give you a theory, they must accept the premise of your question and not adopt the mindset of your Vietnamese neighbors.

Good luck accomplishing anything other than creating a "b*tch session" thread.

Not asking for 'bitch session' but historical reasoning. You seem to be the only one bitching.

    Hello to all, I have my theory why all voice/music volumes are turned to the highest level.

Looking forward to hearing it!

What ideas do you have?

I've thought about this myself, over the years. I believe it might be one of the arenas where the local population feel free to express themselves without overstepping legal/cultural/political boundaries. Strong sentiment can be openly displayed in a song's lyrics which, if spoken aloud in conversation, might warrant official attention. In fact, many of the songs heard here in the south were illegal to be played/sold/shared up until the early 2000s. Widespread access to the "interweeb" made such legislation moot.

That, or they've taken the amplifiers in "Spinal Tap" (Link, "Goes to 11!") as a challenge, where the VN's amps now go to 12!

Some will say that it's part of their heritage/culture, going back eons! Okay, back to about 1991 anyway. These amps, with karaoke mics, originated in Japan, c.1982, spread rapidly to the Philippines, c.1987, infesting VN and the rest of S.E. Asia in the early 90s.

Their operation of amplifiers reminds me of how they use their stove-tops, be they gas or electric. Only two settings exist, i.e. OFF and MAX.

Thanks for participating. (I am presenting being bombarded)

Ditto, here and now. Can't wait for the Tet cacophony. /s

Oh well. I don't often listen to U2, but when I do, so will my neighbours. (Link)

(my homemade Class-D amp goes to 13!)

Albert       -@AlbertD827

Okay, so back to you. Lets hear your theory

    Not asking for 'bitch session' but historical reasoning. You seem to be the only one bitching.
   

    -@AlbertD827

😁😆🤣

You've been in Việt Nam off and on since 2010, and you honestly are finally seeking enlightenment now?

So disingenuous.

You're P.O.d about the current noise level in your neighborhood and you're hoping to get replies from others who share your misery.

It's laughable that you'd imply you are searching for historical perspectives.

addendum: does me good to remind myself of the following from time to time...

“When you travel, remember that a foreign country is not designed to make you comfortable, it is designed to make its own people comfortable.”                 Clifton Fadiman

    addendum: does me good to remind myself of the following from time to time...
“When you travel, remember that a foreign country is not designed to make you comfortable, it is designed to make its own people comfortable.”                 Clifton Fadiman
   

    -@Aidan in HCMC

Definitely deserving of a re-quote

👏😎👍

    Hello to all, I have my theory why all voice/music volumes are turned to the highest level.       -@AlbertD827

As we have yet to hear Albert's theory, we have to assume he is just trolling us and no such theory exists.

Since we are at it, this from a generation or two ago: 

Do you have Price Albert in a can?

Why yes we do.

Then you had better let him out.

Personally, if the singer has a sweet voice and is not drunk, it doesn't bother me to much. We have neighbors who are actually good singers and they entertain three or four evenings a week. Unfortunately it often happens just when we want to watch a movie or when we have to stop watching halfway when they begin. My partner does not like loud karaoke music from the neighbors at all. The point is, that complaining goes against the code of conduct in a neighborhood so usually nothing happens. My wife would not complain directly with the 'offenders' but she does talk with other women about it. And she tells me that it annoys more than a few neighbors.

There have been articles in the online newspapers in which locals, using pseudonyms of course, express their frustration about noise pollution. And I have to admit, some of the stories were harrowing. Especially those of residents living in apartment towers with young children. They just can't sleep enough or do their home work.

A while ago there was also this story about elderly people doing their daily exercise routines in a small park in the city. As is the custom, they did this to the tune of blaring disco music. It disturbed some younger people. Initially they politely asked for the volume to be turned down. When this was unsuccessful, they resorted in taking their own sound system to the street and played music for funerals. That did the job.

My responses, not in the order of relevance:

1. I am not a troll; I rarely start or respond to a post
2. Being curious about anything, including cultural differences is a positive
3. The highest volumes experienced here are not referring to karaoke
4. Turning up the volume of music is normal, especially when drinking. Musicians turning up higher and higher through the performance. ---- I use to perform and have attended thousands of such events. I used to drink a very long time ago
5. HCMC does have the 10pm rule which is common sense to neighbors within a 3 block radius
6. My volume reference is to everyday school events during the daytime in their courtyards, and most presentation events elsewhere to small groups in the evenings. Max volume just below feedback.
7. The reason for my post was to see who had deductive reasoning and might have other theories than my own.
8. Hatefulness by those in Western countries seems to be the go-to response to anything uttered, thus my curiosity heightens. My thinking about high volume to message people here corresponds with a time when critical and creative thinking was being snuffed out.
9. Do you now have an idea about my theory?
10. If you respond with negativity, refer to #8.

@Aidan in HCMC  Thanks for your reasonable responses. See my latest response which is antithetical to the people 'expressing themselves'.  Blowing of steam is acceptable here, expression has a low ceiling with drastic responses if gone beyond. right?

A while ago there was also this story about elderly people doing their daily exercise routines in a small park in the city. As is the custom, they did this to the tune of blaring disco music. It disturbed some younger people. Initially they politely asked for the volume to be turned down. When this was unsuccessful, they resorted in taking their own sound system to the street and played music for funerals. That did the job.
   
    -@Kiteflyer

In a previous apartment I had there was a neighbour next door who every day would open their door & play very loud music all friggin day. Even with my door closed I struggled to hear the TV. So one day I opened my door, moved my Karaoke machine to my open door & played AC/DC "Hells Bells" on repeat & at max volume. Then I spotted the mother next door recording it on her phone. She reported me to the management office & the security came & asked me to stop.

    @Aidan in HCMC  Thanks for your reasonable responses.        -@AlbertD827

You're welcome, of course. Seems I mistakenly conflated your referencing "...voice/music volumes..." with that of karaoke events (assaults?). Apologies. But yes, I agree, the local people's penchant for maximum volume applies equally to public address system announcements, exercise or yoga classes, etc etc.

My theory somewhat converges with yours in that we both (I think) see it as a natural response/reaction, at least by a certain segment of the population, to the sociopolitical environment which did (and does) exist here. In the case of some music (eg. pre-1975 S. VN songs, modern VN rap songs), it appears to serve as a sort of release valve, letting off steam. With regard to awards ceremonies, school and gov't announcements etc, acting as a unifying force, commanding the attention of all.

Thankfully the vast majority of the karaoke revellers in my current neck of the woods, Phu Quoc, abide by the 10:00PM noise curfew. Not all, mind you, but the vast majority. My rural setting insulates me from most other noise sources.

With all that said, I've become so accustomed to hearing the music, that I've even caught myself humming along, tapping my foot to some of the little ditties. I've even begun to have my favourites! Like the majority of us (both expats and locals alike) it's when the volume reaches a level where it is impossible to have a conversation in one's own home, make a video call or watch a video that our frustration wells up.

You want a theory, here is one.   Since you mentioned school courtyard speakers (#6) while most readers thought your complaint was karaoke (#3) and party music (#4) here is my theory on that.  It has to do with the nature of the Vietnamese language which is vowel based rather than consonant based.  Most audio systems have a level of volume after which distortion becomes limiting.   This is way less of a factor for vowels, which are essential for meaning of Viet words more so than consonants.   This allows them to push speakers to a higher level.   When my public school used its outside system, my students told me that they could understand just fine, but when the speaker (human) switched to English at the same volume level, neither they, the students, nor I could understand.

1. I am not a troll; I rarely start or respond to a post    -@AlbertD827

First time for everything...

2. Being curious about anything, including cultural differences is a positive

Having a hidden purpose in starting a discussion isn't.

3. The highest volumes experienced here are not referring to karaoke

Trolls love guessing games. Instead you left that key point out of your OP.

4. Turning up the volume of music is normal, especially when drinking. Musicians turning up higher and higher through the performance. ---- I use to perform and have attended thousands of such events. I used to drink a very long time ago

Spoken like a "percussionist in an afro-cuban-latin-jazz band"... 😉

I agree that's common in ALL cultures, which is why I objected to the topic referring only to "Vietnamese" loudness.

There's a continuing effort in the forums to keep discussions from devolving into all types of angry rhetoric centered on ethnic, racial, gender, national origins and other differences.

Really, your failure to say what you specifically meant trolled the negative response out of me 😇

5. HCMC does have the 10pm rule which is common sense to neighbors within a 3 block radius

That's the rule virtually nationwide (or, nationlong 😉)

Your OP didn't specify noise at certain times.

Again, trolls often leave out key points to engender a broader response.

6. My volume reference is to everyday school events during the daytime in their courtyards, and most presentation events elsewhere to small groups in the evenings. Max volume just below feedback.

See?

That wasn't so hard, was it?

You could have included that in your OP and we'd all understand your specific gripe.

But that would have given a clue as to your hidden purpose, right?

7. The reason for my post was to see who had deductive reasoning and might have other theories than my own.

Yeah, no.

The reason for your post was to put forth a theory that would violate the forum code of conduct by being political and critical of the host nation's government, especially by disparaging its historical impact on cultural norms.

For those reasons, numbers 8, 9 and 10 don't deserve a reply (especially your spurious declaration of "hatefulness").

Caution and dislike are much more appropriate words.

It seems to me that the LOUDNESS of social media and other bombardment, has garbled brains in the same way audio speakers & the threat of death had blasted out critical thinking/creative thinking in the minds here in the 70's. Do you see the historic impact?

@OceanBeach92107  It would have been wonderful if you used deductive reasoning rather than wasting time bashing me.

I wonder how @OceanBeach92107 knew I used to be a percussionist in an afro-cuban jazz band. Instead of thinking of the possibilities of why I posted in the way that I did, he spent more time looking at the few personal posts I made. I regret ever posting here. My bad. Won't happen again.

   I wonder how @OceanBeach92107 knew I used to be a percussionist in an afro-cuban jazz band.

    -@AlbertD827

It's on your profile

6. My volume reference is to everyday school events during the daytime in their courtyards, and most presentation events elsewhere to small groups in the evenings. Max volume just below feedback.

8. My thinking about high volume to message people here corresponds with a time when critical and creative thinking was being snuffed out. -@AlbertD827

It seems to me that the LOUDNESS of social media and other bombardment, has garbled brains in the same way audio speakers & the threat of death had blasted out critical thinking/creative thinking in the minds here in the 70's. Do you see the historic impact? -@AlbertD827

I am going to quote you fully after all, even if only to have admin & others see the true purpose of your OP:

You are tying your personal discomfort to your disagreement with the methods used immediately before and after the reunification of Vietnam.

You obviously see no value in the Vietnamese people and their government choosing to trumpet forth their acknowledgements of success (as with the beginning of school years and graduations of students from local schools or award ceremonies).

Your attempt to draw a parallel between modern noise pollution and the use of high-volume audio amplification systems frequently used in Vietnamese society is faulty at best.

It's obvious that you don't embrace that method or value system, because it disturbs your peace. I get that.

But your efforts to justify your displeasure by disparaging the historical methods of the reunification government by implication is the type of insidious criticism that's usually deleted from the forum for being both political in nature and a violation of host nation sensitivities.

Of course there are many expats (including myself) who often find such loud announcements and proclamations and official music broadcasts "inconvenient" and personally disturbing of our individual peace & quiet.

I'm definitely NOT saying that anyone who complains or is silently upset about it is somehow being seditious, and I do understand the feelings that prompted you to post

But I've personally come to understand that most of those types of celebratory and informational broadcasts have great personal value to some or all of my Vietnamese neighbors; quite often, the children and the elderly and those dedicated to public service.

I personally wish that some of the key moments in my life would have been trumpeted out for all to hear, but that simply wasn't acceptable when growing up in 92107.

O.B.

SIDE NOTE: The quote function continues to post incorrectly, especially when using multiple tools in one post, such as Quote, Font Color, Bold and Italics.

Here's my two cents on the subject. In my experience, there is just a minority who play too loud karaoke. Such ignorant people you can find in every country. The social fabric in Vietnam creates an opportunity to display such behavior without being corrected, so it happens more often. Whereas in most western countries you can only go loud on certain occasions. Otherwise you are at risk of becoming a pariah in your community. In Vietnam this doesn't happen. The social conduct guarantees that you still are treated as an exemplary citizen by your neighbors, even if they dislike you. The law in western countries is also more strictly enforced.

Having said this, one cannot deny there is a general tendency in Vietnam to use any device to it's full capacity. As it happened, not so long ago progress was thrown at them in a relatively short period of time. People just haven't grown up with all the new devices that comes with a modern living standard. From a young age, westerners have been taught how to use these things or copied their parents behavior. It will take a few generations to see some change.

    You want a theory, here is one.   Since you mentioned school courtyard speakers (#6) while most readers thought your complaint was karaoke (#3) and party music (#4) here is my theory on that.  It has to do with the nature of the Vietnamese language which is vowel based rather than consonant based.  Most audio systems have a level of volume after which distortion becomes limiting.   This is way less of a factor for vowels, which are essential for meaning of Viet words more so than consonants.   This allows them to push speakers to a higher level.   When my public school used its outside system, my students told me that they could understand just fine, but when the speaker (human) switched to English at the same volume level, neither they, the students, nor I could understand.   
    -@THIGV

I think you might be on to something there.

I've noticed that VN people have difficulty understanding a topic (spoken in Vietnamese) when the individual speaking is at even a slight distance away. I'll ask a of a VN with me, "What did they just say?", and almost invariably the response will be, "I don't know. I can't hear what they are saying". This was a surprise to me (then, not now) as the person speaking was within easy earshot. Had they been speaking English I would certainly have understood what they were saying, or at the very least would have gotten the gist of it.