New Foreign English Teachers Requirements Decision 4159/QD-BGDDT

The headline should read: "Vietnam Implements New Incentives for Foreign English Teachers". 

This news will only discourage any teachers from considering working in Vietnam and further exacerbate the current teacher shortage.

Without providing good reasons (reasonable income, easy visa/work permit, solid support and assistance with housing, etc.) for people to come, they won't. It's not rocket science.

@jayrozzetti23

are they going to raise the below minimum wage for these teachers if one has to go through all that hassle. is this in lieu of the current TESOL, TEFL. accreditation.

    @jayrozzetti23are they going to raise the below minimum wage for these teachers if one has to go through all that hassle. is this in lieu of the current TESOL, TEFL. accreditation.         -@brianAFSER73

Good questions! I guess the first one is rhetorical as we both know that the business model of most if not all language schools and the agencies that provide teachers to public schools and companies is to pay as a low an hourly rate as possible with unpaid prep and travel time, poor materials and a lack of an office/teachers room, etc.

In the past, this used to work well because the industry was unregulated and as freelancers, teachers were free to work at whichever centers paid the most and provided better facilities, etc. Schools were also free to bring in new teachers as they became available and ease out the slackers and unpopular teachers. It was a free market system.

Teachers would just show up before the peak season in the summer (Vietnamese kids have to study something during their holidays) when most centers offer intensive "English camps", then continue into the new year, after which demand dropped as Tet approached. Having worked hard, lived cheaply local style, and stacked some savings, teachers were able to take off several months, return home, go surfing, party in Pattaya, backpack through Laos, etc. until it was time to return. Many of them came back year after year and the schools were happy to see them return.

There are of course benefits to regulation but this means that, now that teachers are fully contracted to schools/agencies, need various qualifications, and comply with various rules, Vietnam is now directly competing against countries like Korea, Japan, China, Saudi Arabia, etc. that offer flights, housing, insurance, bonuses, paid leave, etc. The most qualified teachers will generally choose to work there now and come to Vietnam during their holidays (well, maybe not, again there are other places to travel). In other words, Vietnam has lost the main competitive advantage that they had (flexibility).

As for your second question, based on what I've read, it seems everybody is required to undergo the training. As usual, it doesn't seem to be completely thought out, so folks will just have to wait and see how things develop when/if there is an attempt to implement the policy, which creates uncertainty that also turns people off.

Anywayz, I left Vietnam more than a year ago, so at this point all of my information is second-hand, fortunately.

are they going to raise the below minimum wage for these teachers if one has to go through all that hassle.

Minimum wage in Vietnam is set by legislation. Teachers are already paid well above the minimum wage.

is this in lieu of the current TESOL, TEFL. accreditation.
        -@brianAFSER73

ESL certificates (TESOL, TEFL etc.) are not, nor have they ever been, a prerequisite to teaching in Vietnam.

@Aidan in HCMC

the perils of not keeping up to date on regulations. 

I read only last week about English teacher language skills must be native speakers from

a British Colony or countries listed which included Australia, New Zealand,  Canada, USA, and others i can't recall.  I found this rather odd as I can't understand many native speakers from most on the list?

I found this rather odd as I can't understand many native speakers from most on the list?
   

    -@TaurusTiger

The 7 A-list countries: England, Ireland, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, USA, South Africa.

I agree. I can understand the Canadian brothers ok, but Irish and Scots and Aussies?

Garbled accents and crazy invented words. Forgetaboutit. The poor students!

Recent release from VN Express Int'l.(Link, January 25, 2024)

snippets from article (emphasis mine);

"...the program, which was introduced last month, aims to improve the quality of language teaching and learning in Vietnam."

"Teachers at foreign language centers who must participate in this program include native English speakers, foreigners with an associate degree in English, or an associate degree along with a foreign language proficiency certificate of level 5 or higher according to the six-level foreign language competency framework used in Vietnam or equivalent."

"The program consists of 11 topics that will cover a total of 160 periods lasting 45 minutes each."

(i.e. 160 hours, given 15 minutes travel to/from time, should online not be an option)

"...the ministry's program targets individuals with English language proficiency but lacking suitable pedagogical skills.

"Therefore, foreigners who meet the language proficiency requirements and have recognized English teaching certificates are not obliged to participate,"

(Vu Minh Duc, Ministry of Education and Training)

"...Some English teaching certificates that are recognized in Vietnam include TESOL, TEFL, CELTA..."

(though not a prerequisite to teaching English in Vietnam)

"...recruiting for the course, with tuition staying between VND17.9 million and VND19.9 million (US$724-809) per participant." (GAK!)

(would it be cheaper, and perhaps faster, to simply acquire a TESOL, TEFL, CELTA teaching certificate?)

Full article can be found at, Vietnam requires native English teachers to go through 120-hour training program, here. (Link)

@Aidan in HCMC

Thanks, Aidan for your annotated version of the article. It got to the gist of the report. You should apply for an editor position at VN Express!

The problem behind this proposal is that it isn't clear what already qualifies as a legitimate TEFL or TESOL certificate, other than the (Cambridge) CELTA. TEFL or TESOL certificates run the gamut from a Master of Arts diploma in TESOL to courses that are strictly online self-study (where you're pretty much guaranteed a certificate as long as you pay the fee.)  A survey of HR reps and academic directors at the more reputable schools could provide an idea of which certificates offered the best preparation for new teachers.

In addition, in regards to the proposed new certification, I'm not sure which teacher would want a TEFL certificate that might not be recognized by schools outside of Vietnam.

"...the ministry's program targets individuals with English language proficiency but lacking suitable pedagogical skills.

"Therefore, foreigners who meet the language proficiency requirements and have recognized English teaching certificates are not obliged to participate,"

(Vu Minh Duc, Ministry of Education and Training)

_________

My friends and colleagues' kids who are stuck in the mind-numbing Vietnamese education system would disagree. Their teachers lack both proficiency and teaching skills. It always amazes me the number of brilliant and interesting students in Vietnam I meet. They are what they are IN SPITE of the crappy educational system. 

Phew!

Working my way through this seeing the initial blurbs and costs and "all" NES was a concern until I got to the part about those of us with recognised quals.

It almost certainly will be based on a bachelor degree (minimum) plus CELTA or Trinity TESOL. Most serious employers here or worldwide will be wanting any of those.

It just goes to show that a lot of these TEFL courses and particularly online ones are Mickey Mouse. Online ones are often not taken seriously by the best employers because they lack practicum (supervised practical application), ie. during training they are observed actually teaching real students by a qualified tutor from a globally recognised, accredited institution, which is exactly what CELTA and TESOL are.

Bad news for the cheap Charlies, shirkers and jokers of this world (but also, to be fair, some very good people as well). However, it's good news for the industry with regards to cracking down on dodgy employers and teachers. Employers in particular are going to be outed for their levels of support for the foreigners here and to an extent will find it more difficult to take advantage: "Teacher, please accept lower than average salary and pay for all your own paperwork because our students are poor" - major red flag. Now those types of employers are going to be even more exposed.

As I began reading the OP and including the solid post by jayrozzetti2312 I was having visions of the awful Thai system, but based on what details we know this seems a lot better.

(I left Thailand in 2016 so my info isn't up to date...)

When I was in Thailand it was easy to get started, just be qualified, white and with a pulse. However, after two years the foreigner was required to do a "Culture course" usually at their own expense about irrelevant things but supposedly to help fit in to their society. Most foreigners described it as a money making scam.

But that's not the extent of it, because that was just the first step towards being "qualified" according to Thailand's own education system/content/qualification.

In other words, the real kicker was essentially being forced to become Qualified Teacher Status (pretty much international school level quals).

It included FOUR gruelling tests, often with required answers that didn't make sense and most teachers failed at least one and had to do it AGAIN. At the end of all this nonsense the foreigner gained a worthless piece of paper because Thai teaching qualifications are not recognised and/or accepted outside Thailand.

The tests could be deferred, but only so many times before you were done.

It's one of the reasons I left and often the teachers who put up with it were the married with kids ones so they just had to put up with it (on a salary lower than that of VN).

So compared to the Thai system it seems the Vietnamese one is somewhat better, not that I'm wanting to justify it, but as an objective observation it could be much worse.

Easy for me to say that with 14 years exp, an EN Lit degree and a TESOL but really I sympathise with anyone facing this in today's world and I hope it doesn't come for me or I will expect the employer/government to cover all costs or I'll laugh in their face and go elsewhere.