What annoys you about Brazil?

The lack of attention to detail and accuracy

@marcotenore

Yes! Good shout - in construction you are allowed - legally - a 5% deviation.

Poor communication skills, including listening skills. From 99.999% of the population.  They should things. And they are not feedback listeners.  From top to down the strata, regardless of schooling.

Lack of culture of excellence.  Folks out here are very complacent.

Too many opiniated ones.

The absurd proliferation of drug stores.

Starbucks had this issue 10 years ago in the US and Canada, but, pretty much everywhere you will go in Brasil today, there is a Drogaria Raia, Drogasmil, Pacheco, etc.......on almost every second block kkkkkkkkk

The stuff on the list #1-7 we have in Canada.........so, it's not even on my radar in Rio.

@sprealestatebroker

They need educating in the American way? We (Westerners) assume we are right?

@Gasparzinho 777

100% agree - but maybe this is because there is money to be made from farmacias? Don't know.

About the list 1-7 that you believe also exists in wonderful Canada - how did Expat 5000 get a visa to go there?!!! Was it pre-1776? (JUST JOKING, guys, this life should also be fun!!)

10/29/23  The uncertainty of land titles.  Anyone buying land in Brazil -- and that probably includes most expats at some time or another -- needs to more due diligence than most people at least from English-speaking countries are used to in order to feel minimally confident of clear title.  And Title Insurance?  Dream on!  I look down on all the odd-shaped houses from my windows and wonder how anybody knew where those lot lines were supposed to be.

The English certainly had their faults and quirks, but they made practically a religion of surveying, and passed it on to their successor countries.  Both George Washington and Abraham Lincoln spent time as surveyors, and were respected for it.  Anyone flying over the Great Plains in the US or Canada today can look down and see the result:  every square meter of land from the Rio Grande to the North Pole is measured, marked, identified, and recorded.  On the other side of the world, The Great Trigonometrical Survey of India is one of the great accomplishments of 19th Century science.  The Portuguese never tried to do anything similar here, and apparently never even considered it, or any successive Brazilian government either.  So pay your money and take your chance!

10/29/23   @Gasparzinho 777
100% agree - but maybe this is because there is money to be made from farmacias? Don't know.
About the list 1-7 that you believe also exists in wonderful Canada - how did Expat 5000 get a visa to go there?!!! Was it pre-1776? (JUST JOKING, guys, this life should also be fun!!)
   

    -@Peter Itamaraca

Interestingly, we don't have that profusion of pharmacies, but at least in Centro in Manaus we have -- and this is not an exaggeration --  many blocks with three or four Óticas on them, and more than one where it seems like every storefront is an Ótica.  Even in a city of over two million, nobody needs that many eyeglasses.  They never have many customers in them, but they rarely go out of business, either, and if they do, they're usually replaced by another Ótica.

We assume, only half-jokingly, that most of them are fronts for moneylaundering.

@abthree

It is also a common mistake that foreigners make to assume that buying real estate in Brazil will be the same process as back home, (as Abthree suggests) and Bazilians assume that foreigners are already aware of the process to buy in Brazil - and why should they think anything different if they know nothing else?

In my opinion, to buy (or even rent) in a location where you have not received expert advice and guidance is probably going to cost you a lot of money...

@abthree

Interesting - in the UK, where we do not have real estate co-broking, all the real estate agents (estate agents) accumulate in the same area in any city. Maybe so customers can make comparisons? I have seen the same with furniture shops in Recife and other cities.

The English certainly had their faults and quirks, but they made practically a religion of surveying, and passed it on to their successor countries.  Both George Washington and Abraham Lincoln spent time as surveyors, and were respected for it.  Anyone flying over the Great Plains in the US or Canada today can look down and see the result:  every square meter of land from the Rio Grande to the North Pole is measured, marked, identified, and recorded.  On the other side of the world, The Great Trigonometrical Survey of India is one of the great accomplishments of 19th Century science.  The Portuguese never tried to do anything similar here, and apparently never even considered it, or any successive Brazilian government either.  So pay your money and take your chance!
   

    -@abthree

I would like to take this opportunity on behalf of all Brits to apologise for not invading Brazil. It is possible we were busy somewhere else at the time..

10/29/23 I would like to take this opportunity on behalf of all Brits to apologise for not invading Brazil. It is possible we were busy somewhere else at the time..
   

    -@Peter Itamaraca

It must be admitted, though, that you've had your influence:  "para os ingleses ver" is still the explanation that's given for a law or regulation that looks really good on paper, but that nobody has any intention of actually enforcing.

@abthree

The expression " an Englishman's bond is his word" still holds true, If I say to you that I will do something, I absolutely will do it, and on time, no matter what the cost.

Have you also heard of mão inglês on the roads? There is one near me on the mainland

10/29/23    Have you also heard of mão inglês on the roads? There is one near me on the mainland
   

    -@Peter Itamaraca

There used to be one in the Cidade Alta in Salvador.   I don't know whether it's still there.

@marcotenore

Amen!! @marcotenore I wish they had more pride in their work and desire to excel, and @abthree is right for the total disregard for title/title insurance and other real-estate safeguards...

Sidenotes the british didnt invade brazil but did imperialize it via the Portuguese royal family. It was a vassal state like Argentina for a period. Hitler studied and admired the British treatment of indigeous slave labor rubber tappers even. Worst of both worlds.

In Valença Bahia theres a single street with mão ingles it baffles the mind.

im not sure how much of this is my region since everyone claims its worse here but enrolação or flakiness! If you want to pay someone to do something they simply stop replying or disappear only to their loss. You'll struggle to find someone to follow through on just about any service. It paralizes everything and makes very simple tasks nearly impossible. It's a completely different logic and of course there's a small antidote to American pathologies of work in there, on the other hand it feeds mass unemployment and lack of services.

Hi @Peter Itamaraca

if you just step back, you can tell their still very much tribal . All the things that we're complaining about basically, is how a tribe works. The funny thing is; whenever you bring that up, they get really upset about it.  It's like they want to separate themselves from that.

They really need to be more accountable for their actions and their work. They need to be responsible and stop acting like children.

In their defense. There are very few and I mean few that actually are very nice and try hard.

I've been here alittle over a  year and have seen this play out with my father in law. he was in the court system for 10 years and two lawyers because the first one seemed to be charging for services that werent being performed and the second one wanted payment up front and then got testy if you called with questions. What I take from all this as a newbie is to return to the saying I heard when I first came to this forum: "Brazil is not for beginners." For me I dont make any large purchases. I bring into the country only what I need for the month and I NEVER engage in an "investment opportunity". After one year here I believe that 1) Expats need to have an intermediate grasp of the language (ex to read and undertand a basic rental aggreement and be able to form writing questions you may have. 2) know the words golpes and malandragem and understand your place in this society. I believe that for me, in order to have a positive experience here overall, that I need to take things slow and not jump into any commitments. I am fortunate enough to have an angel of a wife who has the best heart, but is a shrewd negotiator and carries a bag of communication and emotional skills to navigate most aspects of life here.

10/30/23 Nuisance charges that keep following you after they've been resolved.  At least one other expat on the site has experienced this, too, so I figure that it's worth mentioning.  REALLY annoying.

We rented an apartment in October 2017, set up the electrical billing (in my husband's name), no apparent problems.  We bought an apartment in the same building in April 2018, closed the electric account on the rental  unit, set up a new electric account (in my name) for the purchased unit, again, no problems.

In 2020, my husband started getting electric bills on the rental unit for unpaid charges from 2016.  We went to the electric company with documents to prove that we hadn't lived there in 2016 (or anywhere else in Manaus, since we weren't even married yet in 2016), and they cleared his account.

Last year, he started getting the same bills again.  Something or someone had reinstated the charge in their records, without the clearance.  Knowing Brazil we keep all receipts, so we took our file back to the electric company, went through the whole process again -- and this time the rejected our appeal!  They offered us a settlement, it had already taken more time and effort than it was worth, so we paid them R$100 to make it go away.  And put that documentation in our file for the NEXT time, if there is one.

@Peter Itamaraca Well...

...Hurricanes, Earthquakes, Tsunami´s, Snow Storms....Oops those are cons....NEVERMIND

Roddie in Retirement

PS. I agree with #7 says the Expat that has been waiting over 5 months for his Permanent Residency Visa by Spouse by the Federal Police and our lawyers.

• Horrific import taxes, especially on products Brazil will never produce
• Everyone LOVES to say "it can't be done". Every single person in a business interaction like getting an apartment adheres to random rules for the sake of it and will never offer a solution or even talk about it.
• Needless bureacracy
• Governments are HORRIBLE about keeping an adequate number of green spaces
• No proper zoning so that loud, industrial stuff happens in residential areas
• Too many dogs
• Too many laws to benefit the rich...

Lack of English even though 99% of them listen to English songs, movies and tv shows and LOVE Disney World LOL

However the Big one is the massive divide of the Rich Vs poor. I'd go so far to say that 95% of People are poor and 5 % are MEGA RICH. This Divide is so glaring in some districts in Sao Paulo. I often wonder WTF do these people do that make them so rich? the Answer is clear. Monopolies, Gov connections, Kickbacks, Bribes, you name it. Nobody Mega Rich in Brazil is Rich because they started a useful Business. It's Corruption to the Core. Oh I can't leave out the down right Criminal activities by the Elite. It's So obvious in Sao Paulo, they don't even hide it.

Brasil is one of many countries in the world where people could care less about the colonialists language.

You're right on the economic divide part though. My Carioca wife says you are either a crook, connected, or both if you are rich.

    10/29/23  The uncertainty of land titles.  Anyone buying land in Brazil -- and that probably includes most expats at some time or another -- needs to more due diligence than most people at least from English-speaking countries are used to in order to feel minimally confident of clear title.  And Title Insurance?  Dream on!  I look down on all the odd-shaped houses from my windows and wonder how anybody knew where those lot lines were supposed to be.
The English certainly had their faults and quirks, but they made practically a religion of surveying, and passed it on to their successor countries.  Both George Washington and Abraham Lincoln spent time as surveyors, and were respected for it.  Anyone flying over the Great Plains in the US or Canada today can look down and see the result:  every square meter of land from the Rio Grande to the North Pole is measured, marked, identified, and recorded.  On the other side of the world, The Great Trigonometrical Survey of India is one of the great accomplishments of 19th Century science.  The Portuguese never tried to do anything similar here, and apparently never even considered it, or any successive Brazilian government either.  So pay your money and take your chance!
   

    -@abthree

City lots, it's a pretty much straight forward process, or at least in large metropolitan regions. 

Rural land, there are too many gray areas,, so I concur with you. The description of Property limits are  terse and confusing, and clerk's language is wildly inconsistent in defining end points..

I often use GIS Maps to identify properties, and the City of Sao Paulo has a decent system in place, where not only you can get a precise marker on the property perimeter, areas, public infra-structure identification, zoning, landmarking statute.  Outside Sao Paulo, it is crapshoot.

    The absurd proliferation of drug stores.
Starbucks had this issue 10 years ago in the US and Canada, but, pretty much everywhere you will go in Brasil today, there is a Drogaria Raia, Drogasmil, Pacheco, etc.......on almost every second block kkkkkkkkk

The stuff on the list #1-7 we have in Canada.........so, it's not even on my radar in Rio.
   

    -@Gasparzinho 777

There is a valid point on your observation.... but there are caveats too.

Brazilian Proliferation of retail drugstores. 

1.You have to take into account that the median population on Southern Brazil is aging faster . so demand for over the counter non prescription drugs has gone up.  Just Viagra knock offs, drugstore clerk demands a prescription to sell it to walk in customers. They sell them like candy in a confectionery.

2.Self medication has always been a  thing in Brazil. Everywhere. Any slight pain, Brazilians as w whole will  go to the pill bottle. The idea to let a cold die out and let your body to recover by itself, thus building better antibody defenses, is alien to most Brazilians.

3.Brazilian urbanites picked up a lot of bad habits from Americans on processed  and comfort food. Despite Farmer's Markets everywhere ( Feiras Livres ), the average salt of earth Brazilian has a poorly balanced diet. Just stand in line at the grocery checkout counter and take a peek at their pushcarts. You will get the idea.

4..Most urban areas are densely populated. More than most large US Metropolitan Areas.  So the number of drugstores is proportionally the same. 

5..Up until the 80's the US had somewhat a diverse distrtution of independent retail drugstores. No longer. These days you have CVS, Walgreens, Eckerd. Rite Aid is about to go bankrupt. That is nationwide.

Consolidation led to few super large chains in the US.  It used to be you went to the druggie to pick up a newspaper, sit at the Soda Pop Stand, grab some Hallmark cards, buy postage stamps.  Not any longer.

Meanwhile,  the Brazilian drugstore landscape has plenty chain drugstores, and some independent ones. If you are an investor, you ought to know this is a sector ripe for consolidation through buyouts.  You can certainly profit handsomely if you do your homework on this industry.

Markets distortions lead to opportunities to those who pay attention to it.

CORRECTING MYSELF...

1.You have to take into account that the median population on Southern Brazil is aging faster . so demand for over the counter non prescription drugs has gone up.  Just Viagra knock offs, drugstore clerk demands a prescription to sell it to walk in customers. They sell them like candy in a confectionery.

I meant, " a drugstore clerk DOES NOT  demand a prescription to sell it to walk in customers."

and by the way...

It is cheaper for a poor person to go to some pill bottle than to spend money to eat an well balanced diet.

     10/29/23   @Gasparzinho 777100% agree - but maybe this is because there is money to be made from farmacias? Don't know.About the list 1-7 that you believe also exists in wonderful Canada - how did Expat 5000 get a visa to go there?!!! Was it pre-1776? (JUST JOKING, guys, this life should also be fun!!)        -@Peter Itamaraca

Interestingly, we don't have that profusion of pharmacies, but at least in Centro in Manaus we have -- and this is not an exaggeration --  many blocks with three or four Óticas on them, and more than one where it seems like every storefront is an Ótica.  Even in a city of over two million, nobody needs that many eyeglasses.  They never have many customers in them, but they rarely go out of business, either, and if they do, they're usually replaced by another Ótica.

We assume, only half-jokingly, that most of them are fronts for moneylaundering.
   

    -@abthree

Gross profit margins on lenses and frames are wicked fat out here. Everyone on the bandwagon./

Remember, in the States, Luxotica took over the country entire retail from private label brands to chains. 

    Lack of English even though 99% of them listen to English songs, movies and tv shows and LOVE Disney World LOL
However the Big one is the massive divide of the Rich Vs poor. I'd go so far to say that 95% of People are poor and 5 % are MEGA RICH. This Divide is so glaring in some districts in Sao Paulo. I often wonder WTF do these people do that make them so rich? the Answer is clear. Monopolies, Gov connections, Kickbacks, Bribes, you name it. Nobody Mega Rich in Brazil is Rich because they started a useful Business. It's Corruption to the Core. Oh I can't leave out the down right Criminal activities by the Elite. It's So obvious in Sao Paulo, they don't even hide it.
   

    -@expat5000

Yes and no....

There are certain ethnic groups that made it through thriftiness and hard work.

Japanses, Chinese, Korans, Arabs, Jews, Ukranians, Germans, Portuguese.  You haven't got around.  And you are over generalizing. 

For every ethnic group I mentioned above, there is a stereotype to them.....

Portuguese used to own all bakeries ( no longer the case )

Japanese and their whole family would climb at the VW Kombi, or cargo truck, at wee hours to load up for the farmer's market.

The Chinese own every retail discount store in the City ( groceries, kitchenware, giftware )

Arabs ( at least in Sao Paulo and Sao Beranrdo ) took over the discount retail and furniture stores

Jews used to rule on the Jewelry business, and were the pioneers on lay a way plans

Germans are farmers and own livestock

Spaniards and Italians used to be everywhere on the general contractor business, post war.

@sprealestatebroker Your view about the upper Elite Brazilians is more forth right than I view. I saw enough, heard enough to see that No, farmer, baker, furniture seller of even construction guy is able to afford the massive wealth I saw in Sao Paulo, especially Jardins. Granted there is alot of old money Legacy money but the majority is of New money Corruption. From my understanding this has been the way to get ULTRA rich in Brazil since the days of the Dictatorship. It's Cultural not immoral according to the masses. I was shocked that the majority of the locals Brazilians I talked to had no issue with the corruption. It was a oh well type conversation. Truly shocking. I walked away from all of this on the Wealth divide with a viewpoint that it's impossible to live  VERY WELL in Brazil unless you are OLD MONEY of you are NEW MONEY Corruption or an outsider from another country. I met and befriended many professional people in Sao Paulo that had very good jobs but were making a quarter that of the same job in the USA or Europe. I calculated that the average very good job that these people had paid about 10-15k reis a month and from this about it obligatory to pay the Brazilian Gov 27% in Taxes. These people could not make it on their own and their parents helped them with Rent, Car payments, Food etc on a monthly basis. It was the only way for them to survive. Most made 12k minus 27% taxes and you have just 9k. Most paid 4 or 5k in rent. This doesn't leave much left over.

Yeah I saw this and thought, sucks to be a Brazilian, especially a Professional

And, of course, none of these annoyances exist in any other country in the world, correct?...

No corruption, illegality, bureaucracy, inherited wealth, taxes, crime, political nepotism, bad governance, foreign languages, financial disparity, lack of social balance, political imorality, etc, etc?

It is quite extraordinary how we can actually afford to live in this paradise...

11/04/23 Yes, the maximum income tax rate in Brazil is 27%.  And as is the case in every other country in the world with a progressive (I'm speaking about arithmetic now, not politics) income tax rate, NOBODY pays that rate on all of their income -- it's the rate on the last Real earned for people in the top bracket.  For sure, nobody earning R$12K/mo is paying anything near that.  I've been paying Brazilian income taxes for six years, and I'm not paying anything near that, I pay everything that the law says that I owe (I despise tax cheats on principle, and I'm too lazy to do the work that cheating on taxes entails to really pay) and my income is well north of R$12K/mo.  Anybody with that kind of salary who tells you they're paying taxes at that level is either putting one over on you, making large voluntary contributions to the government, or too stupid to be allowed outside unaccompanied.  Almost the entire lower half of the wage earning population of Brazil is exempt from income tax anyway.

Yes, professional salaries in Brazil are low by international standards, but living costs in most of the country are consistent with them.  Most of Brazil happens outside the city of São Paulo, and almost all of it far away from Jardins.  São Paulo can be a misleading measure for judging the cost of living in the country at large; using its richest neighborhoods as a point of reference is just silly for anyone with any real desire to understand Brazil.

@abthree

Exactly correct. In Manhattan it is nearly impossible to buy anything for under 4 million dollars, but a short distance away, in the Bronx, there is plenty for under 1 million. Yet neither of these figures are representative of the USA as a whole, and contigious USA is smaller than Brazil.

Chalk and cheese, apples and pears...

    And, of course, none of these annoyances exist in any other country in the world, correct?...
No corruption, illegality, bureaucracy, inherited wealth, taxes, crime, political nepotism, bad governance, foreign languages, financial disparity, lack of social balance, political imorality, etc, etc?

It is quite extraordinary how we can actually afford to live in this paradise... -@Peter Itamaraca

It definitely exists but not on this scale. At least, the level of government incompetence and corruption here is an order og magnitude greater than that in Canada and Australia. (I've lived in all three countries.)

@UhOhDetran

Oh, I absolutely agree - but this is the price we pay to live here....

The island where I live is a popular weekend destination for tourists - we often say that the weekends are the price we pay to live here for the rest of the week.

The point is, if standards were to be the same as in Canada or Australia, would the cost of living, etc, not be about the same?

    11/04/23 @abthreeExactly correct. In Manhattan it is nearly impossible to buy anything for under 4 million dollars, but a short distance away, in the Bronx, there is plenty for under 1 million. Yet neither of these figures are representative of the USA as a whole, and contigious USA is smaller than Brazil.Chalk and cheese, apples and pears...        -@Peter Itamaraca

One of my favorite Atlantic authors is just out with this.  I hope you can read it - paywalls are funny things - but the title really says it all:

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi … ls/675860/

"New York Is Too Expensive to Even Visit"

    @UhOhDetran
Oh, I absolutely agree - but this is the price we pay to live here....
The island where I live is a popular weekend destination for tourists - we often say that the weekends are the price we pay to live here for the rest of the week.

The point is, if standards were to be the same as in Canada or Australia, would the cost of living, etc, not be about the same?
   

    -@Peter Itamaraca

Of course, but I definitely don't see it as a dichotomy. In terms of services and standards, if Brazil improved 10%, it would stiill be cheaper and still much better. It would be nice if some basic standard things were in place, like being able to get my driver's license exchanged hahahahhahahaha