Seeking to apply for Blue Card for access to german market

@Nemanjajerinic

You don't need a lawyer, you need to have your degree officially evaluated by the ZAB.

https://www.kmk.org/zab/zeugnisbewertung/antrag.html

@Sunshine03 Im afraid it wont be equivalent. I know its recognised. For 4 year degree I already got the confirmation that its equivalent. Should I write to them about my situation?

Without a university degree, you'll not be eligible for a Blue Card. If your qualifications are considered equivalent to a German apprenticeship you could obtain a regular work permit. Under the current rules you need formal qualifications to obtain a work permit.

Your first step is to determine how your qualifications compare to German ones.

On the other hand, I would highly recommend transferring to a degree that would be equivalent to a German degree.

@Sunshine03 If I try with my 3 year degree, will it matter if I reicieve "die Ablehnung" from ZAB and continue my schooling to a recognised degree? Then when I acquire that degree, to opt in once more for the evaluation? And does "entschpricht formal einem deutschen Hochschulabschluss" mean that the 4 year course got almost "gleichwertigkeit" to German university curicculum? Im weighing in on my chances of not failing my application.

-

@TominStuttgart Its not required for me to have 5 years of experience anymore. That was the rule then, but now you only need assesment of the diploma done and a copy of a contract with german company. Brutto salary of 43000 euros is a must because its "Mangelberuf" and its not regulated. It means that, if you are EU resident, you can easily start working in an IT company. But for us who are unfortunate to be born in third world countries and had to make are ends meet after the war, its a little bit complicated.

Standard visa wont do the job, because everyone is applying for it, its overcrowded with workers for mcdonalds, construction and health workers

For a blue card one also needs to have 5 year professional work experience and a high enough salary offer. But a standard work visa is fine; no need for a blue card. And for that, it matters more what the hiring company thinks. If they think the credentials are enough then it should not be a problem for them to recruit someone in a highly demanded field like IT.
-@TominStuttgart

Not true.

First of all, 5 years of experience is not and never was a requirement for a Blue Card. Furthermore, in Germany a degree recognised in Germany is required (in addition to the salary requirement) for a Blue Card.

More importantly, recognised formal qualifications (either equivalent to a German degree or apprenticeship) are required to be considered a Fachkraft (see §18 AufenthG). Regardless of how companies assess a prospective employee, only citizens from the countries privileged under §26 BeschV are able to obtain a work visa under the current rules if they don't have formal qualifications.

Although the poster could theoretically try for a permit under the 25000 quota for the Westbalkan-Regelung, it is incredibly difficult to obtain an appointment for these permits and I think it is worth the effort to finish qualifications that will be recognised here.

@Sunshine03 Will I probably be able to go for studies in one of 3 year IT bachelor degrees in Germany if i get rejected? I saw curiculums from TU Berlin and TU München, yeah they got some subjects on third year I dont have. Since I will probably get rejected, I would at least like to be able to opt in on a third year of studies. German degrees are more recognizible, therefore, I would also without a problem start working in germany even halftime jobs with my student visa, and with blue card will be able to apply for jobs after that. What do you think? Im searching for all the alternatives. Keep in mind that I dont want to continue to master, rather I want to go for bachelor degree third year in germany.

If one's degree is not rated by the ANABIN system then it could be a problem for a blue card but not a standard work visa, so I don't get the claim from Nemanjajernic that "Standard visa won't do the job, because everyone is applying for it, its overcrowded with workers for mcdonalds, construction and health workers". Nobody is getting a work permit to come for a job at McDonalds and what should "crowded " in this context mean?  As long as there is still a shortage of workers in certain fields then visas will be available. Due to Covid and the shortage of workers in many government offices it can be that the processing times are longer than before but I doubt there is a reason to expect that blue cards are issued quicker than a standard visa especially since they have more requirements to check.

https://www.bamf.de/EN/Themen/Migration … ntranet231

@Nemanjajerinic

I'd suggest that if your current university awards you a bachelor's degree, your next step should be either working, or doing a master's degree. It seems a very retrograde option to choose, instead, to enrol on the final year of another bachelor's degree. Especially when many universities have one-year master's degrees, so the same year of studying could get you a second, higher-level qualification.

You seem to be fixating on the "equivalence" issue. The Blue Card is for "graduates", and promotes the immigration of "highly-qualified persons". You will (fingers crossed) shortly be a graduate. If you've already convinced a German company to give you an employment contract at nearly 60k (maybe 45k, depending on whether your job/qualification fits the priority list)... then you've already done the hard part, and I'd be surprised if you were rejected. And as @TominStuttgart said if someone wants to pay you that kind of salary, they can get you another type of work permit, it doesn't have to be a Blue Card (but it's better for you if they can).

The latest requirements are here:

https://www.bamf.de/EN/Themen/MigrationAufenthalt/ZuwandererDrittstaaten/Migrathek/BlaueKarteEU/blauekarteeu-node.html

If you're worried, then (as @Sunshine03 suggested) get your (potential) degree checked to see if it's "recognised or comparable to a German degree".

The qualifications database is here:

https://anabin.kmk.org/anabin.html

It seems the 5 year work experience rule for a blue card has been dropped but it certainly did exist previously contrary to Sunshine03s' claim. I am including a link below to the current rules so there is no controversy. And the government is relaxing rules to be able to better attract desired workers. If one's degree is not rated by the ANABIN system then it could be a problem for a blue card but not a standard work visa.

Sorry Tom, but you've made so many false statements that I have to break them down one by one.

You have completely misunderstood the 5 year requirement w.r.t. to the Blue Card. The EU Directive makes it possible for Member States to identify professions for which 5 years of work experience in the relevant field can be substituted for a degree. However,  Germany decided when the Blue Card was implemented not to accept experience in lieu of a degree.

Although the government is considering relaxing the rules, no changes have been made yet.

Furthermore, the website to which you linked in an attempt to prove your false claims is by an uninformed third party (take a look at the Impressum).

But I don't get the claim from Nemanjajernic that "Standard visa won't do the job, because everyone is applying for it, its overcrowded with workers for mcdonalds, construction and health workers". Nobody is getting a work permit to come for a job at McDonalds and what should "crowded " in this context mean? There is no specific quota for such visas issued. As long as there is still a shortage of workers in certain fields then visas will be available. Due to Covid and the shortage of workers in many government offices it can be that the processing times are longer than before but I doubt there is a reason to expect that blue cards are issued quicker than a standard visa especially since they have more requirements to check.

https://www.bamf.de/EN/Themen/Migration … ntranet231

I have another link that goes into a lot of details about the blue card that the other link doesn't. It actually still mentions the 5 year work requirement, which on one hand gives some verification that it was indeed formerly a requirement but also means that it is not currently 100% up to date.
https://www.welcome-center-germany.com/ … on-process
-@TominStuttgart

The OP is referring to the Westbalkan-Regelung, which makes it possible for unskilled workers from the area to obtain work permits for unskilled jobs if they have a job offer and have not collected asylum benefits in the previous 2 years. There is a quota of 25,000 permits for this programme and it is very difficult to get an appointment at the German Embassies in the region.

As I already mentioned the website is useless. You have any official sources?

You seem to be fixating on the "equivalence" issue. The Blue Card is for "graduates", and promotes the immigration of "highly-qualified persons". You are (or will shortly be) a graduate. If you've already convinced a German company to give you an employment contract at nearly 60k (maybe 45k if your degree/job counts as "computer science") euros... then you've already done the hard part, and I'd be surprised if you were rejected.

The requirements are actually very clearly defined in the law. To be considered a graduate you need either a German degree or a foreign degree considered equivalent to a German degree.

I would highly recommend that you actually read the law. I'd recommend starting with §18 AufenthG.

Just a small excerpt:

(3) Fachkraft im Sinne dieses Gesetzes ist ein Ausländer, der

1.

eine inländische qualifizierte Berufsausbildung oder eine mit einer inländischen qualifizierten Berufsausbildung gleichwertige ausländische Berufsqualifikation besitzt (Fachkraft mit Berufsausbildung) oder

2.

einen deutschen, einen anerkannten ausländischen oder einen einem deutschen Hochschulabschluss vergleichbaren ausländischen Hochschulabschluss besitzt (Fachkraft mit akademischer Ausbildung).

https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/aufe … /__18.html

@gwynj Since I need "Zeugnissbewertung" for both high-skilled worker visa and Blue Card its the same for me. I have the skills, done my "Praktikum" and will get the work contract so I can take all that with my degree to ZAB. My degree is recongised by my country and is on the anabin H+/-. I have one shot at this, else perhaps because of my BA, I can apply to all universities in Germany to continue my studies on third year BA, because my degree is not fully equivalent to German(some Subjects differ).

If I get rejected, which is uncertain, but I would take it in considiration, I have two options: To pursue 4 year degree program in my country or to apply to German universities with while I can get Hochschulzugangsberechtigung. Unfortunately,they wont let me work full time job besides pursuing my BA if I study in Germany.

My point is, there is a difference between recognition and equivalence. When I called for "Beratung" they said they can only know when they have the documentation. But then its really late, perhaps I sound anxious, but I have been preparing for this for years, now filling a little bit hopeless because they dont request from me any confirmation of praxis done or work done, only university degree equivalence

@Sunshine03 Will I probably be able to go for studies in one of 3 year IT bachelor degrees in Germany if i get rejected? I saw curiculums from TU Berlin and TU München, yeah they got some subjects on third year I dont have. Since I will probably get rejected, I would at least like to be able to opt in on a third year of studies. German degrees are more recognizible, therefore, I would also without a problem start working in germany even halftime jobs with my student visa, and with blue card will be able to apply for jobs after that. What do you think? Im searching for all the alternatives. Keep in mind that I dont want to continue to master, rather I want to go for bachelor degree third year in germany.
-@Nemanjajerinic

I would still recommend completing a degree that would be accepted here before moving.

First of all, studying in German requires excellent German. Trying to jump into 3rd year courses will be extremely challenging and not leave you much time to work. Furthermore, you'll not know how many credits from your degree will be recognised by a German university until you are accepted. I've heard of foreign students transferring who were required to redo many courses they had already completed abroad.

I realise that you are probably impatient to move and start working, however, a recognised degree will make a huge difference.

If you are sure that your current degree will not meet the requirements, there is no real point in having it evaluated. There is a double jeopardy clause on having qualifications evaluated in multiple jurisdictions, but I'm not sure what will happen if you submit an upgraded degree.

You can try to have your qualifications evaluated by IHK FOSA to see if they are equivalent to a German apprenticeship, which would make it possible to apply as a Fachkraft mit Berufsausbildung. I personally wouldn't recommend this option.

As much as German employers complain about a lack of workers, many are also incredibly stingy. If your qualifications are only evaluated as being equivalent to an apprenticeship, don't be surprised when it'll be used against you in salary negotiations or promotion evaluations.

My point is, there is a difference between recognition and equivalence. When I called for "Beratung" they said they can only know when they have the documentation. But then its really late, perhaps I sound anxious, but I have been preparing for this for years, now filling a little bit hopeless because they dont request from me any confirmation of praxis done or work done, only university degree equivalence
-@Nemanjajerinic

I don't understand the point you are trying to make here. I have experience evaluating foreign qualifications and it is difficult to give a binding decision without first seeing the degree and transcripts. This is especially true when only certain degrees from a country are considered equivalent.

If you have been preparing for so long to move to Germany, why would you choose a programme that you suspect won't be recognised in Germany when you know for a fact that there are programmes that are accepted as equivalent?

@Sunshine03 Recognised diploma in the country where you got your degree doesnt mean that your curriculum has all the subjects and transcripts like courses in the same field of study but different university even in same country(is equivalent). That was my point. The things that I study, I am already familiar with them through my job.

Second question is a little tougher to answer because its more private then legal thing. 4 years ago my family was homeless and I decided not to pursue a college degree in other cities(what is really expensive) and to sign up for college in my home town to help my parents to build a house. I tried to apply for Ausbildung in Germany with my Gymnasium degree, got turned down everywhere. I applied to season job got turned down once, but eventually did managed to get a job in McDonalds in Hamburg. I finally had a chance to speak German. Its very tough to speak any foreign language without speaking on daily base.

There is so much to say more what I tried(didnt try construction tho), what I planned with my ex for Germany and yeah, I wont whine about it, it is what it is.

My question to you. I have a friend in Stuttgart that can financially support me and I can live with him. I would prepare my finances while Im here and then in Germany I would get a mini job. German degree would be much more valued then mine here. And I would easier get promotion with it or look for a better paying job. Since both German and this one will last me one more year at least to finish, do you recommend that I should go for it? Im proficient in English and there are also english speaking courses in IT. My German is on C1 Niveau so not Muttersprache but sort of it.

@Sunshine03   

Its probably to much to ask but since you have worked already on evaluation of foreign degrees, I would love to get your phone number or any other contact to connect with you personally. I hope you dont mind that and every your experience is for me of use. I cant give you nothing in return, so I understand if you dont want to waste your time.

It seems the 5 year work experience rule for a blue card has been dropped but it certainly did exist previously contrary to Sunshine03s' claim. I am including a link below to the current rules so there is no controversy. And the government is relaxing rules to be able to better attract desired workers. If one's degree is not rated by the ANABIN system then it could be a problem for a blue card but not a standard work visa.


Sorry Tom, but you've made so many false statements that I have to break them down one by one.

You have completely misunderstood the 5 year requirement w.r.t. to the Blue Card. The EU Directive makes it possible for Member States to identify professions for which 5 years of work experience in the relevant field can be substituted for a degree. However, Germany decided when the Blue Card was implemented not to accept experience in lieu of a degree.

Although the government is considering relaxing the rules, no changes have been made yet.

Furthermore, the website to which you linked in an attempt to prove your false claims is by an uninformed third party (take a look at the Impressum).
-@Sunshine03

Your information on this thread strongly suggests that one with a recognized degree can certainly get a blue card. Not necessarily true. The whole purpose of the blue card is to offer special conditions to make it more attractive to recruit skilled craft in certain fields where there is a significant shortage of workers. One could be a physician with a specialty and still not be eligible if there is a surplus of such specialists. This is the reason that one who qualifies for a blue card in one EU country might not in another despite there being standardized conditions. Some EU countries can have a shortage of certain skilled workers while others don't.

And I while I have never contended that there is a problem with having a blue card, it is questionable if the extra trouble is worth it. Particularly many from India seem obsessed that they have to get a blue card as some kind of status symbol. If one plans to immigrate indefinitely to Germany and will spend the next 10+ years here then why should it matter if one gets a unlimited residency in form of Niederlassungserlaubnis in 3 years or say in 5 years? After this time one has the same status. The spouse of a non-EU worker will usually have to have an A1 German exam to get the family reunion visa. This is waiver-ed for one with a blue card. This might be a bonus at the start but the bottom line is that A1 is the beginner level. One who can't even reach this level is going to be at great disadvantage in Germany. They will need to learn at least this level of German anyway. By allowing people to come with zero German skills can be seen as a disservice to them; it encourages them to avoid learning the language.

So I think it is of course acceptable to give information about blue card requirements but not to encourage the attitude that one has to have one rather than a standard work visa. I think the scenarios where a blue will make a significant difference are in the minority. Another thing is that a major reform of immigration and naturalization rules is being discussed at the moment in line with the platform of the the new SPD/Green/FDP government. I don't know the details, which may change by the time such a law is passed anyway, but it sounds like the relaxing of rules to encourage immigration of skilled workers might blur the lines of a standard work visa and a blue card to the point that virtually no additional benefits exit anyway.

You seem to be fixating on the "equivalence" issue. The Blue Card is for "graduates", and promotes the immigration of "highly-qualified persons". You are (or will shortly be) a graduate. If you've already convinced a German company to give you an employment contract at nearly 60k (maybe 45k if your degree/job counts as "computer science") euros... then you've already done the hard part, and I'd be surprised if you were rejected.

The requirements are actually very clearly defined in the law. To be considered a graduate you need either a German degree or a foreign degree considered equivalent to a German degree.

I would highly recommend that you actually read the law. I'd recommend starting with §18 AufenthG.

Just a small excerpt:

(3) Fachkraft im Sinne dieses Gesetzes ist ein Ausländer, der
1.
eine inländische qualifizierte Berufsausbildung oder eine mit einer inländischen qualifizierten Berufsausbildung gleichwertige ausländische Berufsqualifikation besitzt (Fachkraft mit Berufsausbildung) oder
2.
einen deutschen, einen anerkannten ausländischen oder einen einem deutschen Hochschulabschluss vergleichbaren ausländischen Hochschulabschluss besitzt (Fachkraft mit akademischer Ausbildung).


https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/aufe … /__18.html
-@Sunshine03

I think it helps to post the German laws in English here for most readers. The Federal Ministry of Justice has an official English translation of the above mentioned Residency Act: https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/engl … html#p0389

It seems the 5 year work experience rule for a blue card has been dropped but it certainly did exist previously contrary to Sunshine03s' claim. I am including a link below to the current rules so there is no controversy. And the government is relaxing rules to be able to better attract desired workers. If one's degree is not rated by the ANABIN system then it could be a problem for a blue card but not a standard work visa.


Sorry Tom, but you've made so many false statements that I have to break them down one by one.

You have completely misunderstood the 5 year requirement w.r.t. to the Blue Card. The EU Directive makes it possible for Member States to identify professions for which 5 years of work experience in the relevant field can be substituted for a degree. However, Germany decided when the Blue Card was implemented not to accept experience in lieu of a degree.

Although the government is considering relaxing the rules, no changes have been made yet.

Furthermore, the website to which you linked in an attempt to prove your false claims is by an uninformed third party (take a look at the Impressum).
-@Sunshine03


Your information on this thread strongly suggests that one with a recognized degree can certainly get a blue card. Not necessarily true. The whole purpose of the blue card is to offer special conditions to make it more attractive to recruit skilled craft in certain fields where there is a significant shortage of workers. One could be a physician with a specialty and still not be eligible if there is a surplus of such specialists.
-@TominStuttgart

Where are you finding all this incorrect information? In Germany, applicants actually do have the legal right (Anspruch) to a Blue Card if they meet the minimum requirements for the regular threshold. The is not necessarily true for regular work permits.

More importantly, you still don't seem to be able to see past your own privilege.

Americans are allowed to move to Germany and apply for a permit once they get here. Citizens of most other countries (including Bosnians) need to apply for a visa at the Germany Embassy in their home countries and can't just show up in Germany. The waiting times for appointments in the region are incredibly long, therefore, it is especially important that applicants make sure they meet the requirements for the visa for which they are applying.

Furthermore, Americans are also among the privileged group of foreigners who are eligible to obtain work permits without having any formal qualifications. It is not easy and requires the Vorrangprüfung, but it is still possible. Citizens of most other countries do not have this option.

Although the (still temporary) Westbalkan-Regelung makes it possible for citizens from this region to apply for a work permit, there is a quota of only 25,000/year. The demand for this visa far outstrips supply and at some German Embassies appointments for visas under this category had to be booked a year in advance. They have recently changed the system in Bosnia so that visa appointments under this category is by lottery.

What does all this mean for the original poster? If the OP's degree is not recognised as equivalent to a German degree, it not only means that a Blue Card is not possible, but also that a regular work permit is also not possible. As I've already explained (with reference to the actual current laws), a Fachkraft is now defined as someone with either German or equivalent foreign qualifications. The qualifications can be either vocational or academic, but they need to be recognised in Germany and proof of equivalency needs to be provided at time of the visa application.

Before you try to lecture me on a matter that you obviously don't understand, I'd suggest that you read the actual laws instead of trying to make up your own.

@Sunshine03 
Its probably to much to ask but since you have worked already on evaluation of foreign degrees, I would love to get your phone number or any other contact to connect with you personally. I hope you dont mind that and every your experience is for me of use. I cant give you nothing in return, so I understand if you dont want to waste your time.
-@Nemanjajerinic

Sorry, but there is really no point. I no longer have access to the anabin databank and can't give you any specific advice with respect to your qualifications. The only thing I can determine is that if you are attending a private school, your degree might not be considered equivalent.

A Beratungsstelle will also only be able to properly assess your qualifications once they have a copy of your qualifications in front of them.

@Sunshine03
My question to you. I have a friend in Stuttgart that can financially support me and I can live with him. I would prepare my finances while Im here and then in Germany I would get a mini job. German degree would be much more valued then mine here. And I would easier get promotion with it or look for a better paying job. Since both German and this one will last me one more year at least to finish, do you recommend that I should go for it? Im proficient in English and there are also english speaking courses in IT. My German is on C1 Niveau so not Muttersprache but sort of it.
-@Nemanjajerinic

Based on the information you've posted, I don't think your assumptions are realistic. I don't think you'd be able to finish a German degree within a year, especially if you'll be working. I also don't think it is worth spending 2 or 3 years studying for an undergraduate degree in Germany when you need only a year more to finish your foreign degree.

Where are you finding all this incorrect information? In Germany, applicants actually do have the legal right (Anspruch) to a Blue Card if they meet the minimum requirements for the regular threshold. The is not necessarily true for regular work permits.

More importantly, you still don't seem to be able to see past your own privilege.

Americans are allowed to move to Germany and apply for a permit once they get here. Citizens of most other countries (including Bosnians) need to apply for a visa at the Germany Embassy in their home countries and can't just show up in Germany. The waiting times for appointments in the region are incredibly long, therefore, it is especially important that applicants make sure they meet the requirements for the visa for which they are applying.

Furthermore, Americans are also among the privileged group of foreigners who are eligible to obtain work permits without having any formal qualifications. It is not easy and requires the Vorrangprüfung, but it is still possible. Citizens of most other countries do not have this option.

Although the (still temporary) Westbalkan-Regelung makes it possible for citizens from this region to apply for a work permit, there is a quota of only 25,000/year. The demand for this visa far outstrips supply and at some German Embassies appointments for visas under this category had to be booked a year in advance. They have recently changed the system in Bosnia so that visa appointments under this category is by lottery.

What does all this mean for the original poster? If the OP's degree is not recognised as equivalent to a German degree, it not only means that a Blue Card is not possible, but also that a regular work permit is also not possible. As I've already explained (with reference to the actual current laws), a Fachkraft is now defined as someone with either German or equivalent foreign qualifications. The qualifications can be either vocational or academic, but they need to be recognised in Germany and proof of equivalency needs to be provided at time of the visa application.

Before you try to lecture me on a matter that you obviously don't understand, I'd suggest that you read the actual laws instead of trying to make up your own.
-@Sunshine03

BS, nobody has a given "right" to any visa or residency permit. Your post ignores the most basics of the reasons for a blue card; to bring skilled people who are in short supply. Just having a degree is not an insurance that one can get a blue card, immigrate to German and work. One can have multiple degrees and not speak the language to the level needed or necessarily have needed licenses or certificates.

My pointing out the FACTS has nothing to do with "American privilege". I posted a link to the actual laws. I made no comparisons or context to requirements for Americans. Sounds like unfounded insults because one has no argument and a serious attitude problem about hating on Americans. Claiming that one cannot get a normal work visa if they don't qualify for a blue card is just nonsensical. Some jobs require a degree; others not. While EU citizens are given priority, others also have a chance if there is shortage of workers. Truck drivers are a case in point. They are being recruited to Germany these days and obviously have no degree.

And sorry but US citizens are not unique. They do belong to a select group of advanced countries that also includes Canada, Australia, UK, Israel, N. Zealand, Japan and S. Korea that have can visit for tourism without a tourist visa - but have the same restrictions as one who need a visa. They can also get permission to work after arrival. But they still need required skills for jobs like anyone else. The only significant difference is that others have to get a work visa before coming. Few Americans speak good German so unless married with a German, not many manage to immigrate to Germany.

BS, nobody has a given "right" to any visa or residency permit. Your post ignores the most basics of the reasons for a blue card; to bring skilled people who are in short supply. Just having a degree is not an insurance that one can get a blue card, immigrate to German and work. One can have multiple degrees and not speak the language to the level needed or necessarily have needed licenses or certificates.

My pointing out the FACTS has nothing to do with "American privilege". I posted a link to the actual laws. I made no comparisons or context to requirements for Americans. Sounds like unfounded insults because one has no argument and a serious attitude problem about hating on Americans. Claiming that one cannot get a normal work visa if they don't qualify for a blue card is just nonsensical. Some jobs require a degree; others not.

I was actually giving you the benefit of the doubt because I thought your uninformed posts were due to your privilege, however, you've now made it clear that it is just your ignorance of the law. I don't have a problem with all Americans,  just arrogant ones who can't admit to their ignorance.

I never claimed that a foreigner cannot obtain a normal work visa if they don't qualify for a Blue Card, I very clearly stated that foreigners need either a degree or vocational qualifications for a regular work visa (see §18 AufenthG). I also mentioned the BeschV, which makes it possible for foreigners without recognised degrees or vocational qualifications to obtain a work permit.

Truck drivers are able to obtain a work visa even without a degree / vocational qualifications if they meet the requirements set out in §24a BeschV.

The exceptions for workers in IT are laid out in §6 BeschV.

Verordnung über die Beschäftigung von Ausländerinnen und Ausländern (Beschäftigungsverordnung - BeschV)

§ 6 Beschäftigung in ausgewählten Berufen bei ausgeprägter berufspraktischer Erfahrung

Die Zustimmung kann Ausländerinnen und Ausländern für eine qualifizierte Beschäftigung in Berufen auf dem Gebiet der Informations- und Kommunikationstechnologie unabhängig von einer Qualifikation als Fachkraft erteilt werden, wenn die Ausländerin oder der Ausländer eine durch in den letzten sieben Jahren erworbene, mindestens dreijährige Berufserfahrung nachgewiesene vergleichbare Qualifikation besitzt, die Höhe des Gehalts mindestens 60 Prozent der jährlichen Beitragsbemessungsgrenze in der allgemeinen Rentenversicherung beträgt und die Ausländerin oder der Ausländer über ausreichende deutsche Sprachkenntnisse verfügt. § 9 Absatz 1 findet keine Anwendung. Im begründeten Einzelfall kann auf den Nachweis deutscher Sprachkenntnisse verzichtet werden. Das Bundesministerium des Innern, für Bau und Heimat gibt das Mindestgehalt nach Satz 1 für jedes Kalenderjahr jeweils bis zum 31. Dezember des Vorjahres im Bundesanzeiger bekannt.

BS, nobody has a given "right" to any visa or residency permit. Your post ignores the most basics of the reasons for a blue card; to bring skilled people who are in short supply. Just having a degree is not an insurance that one can get a blue card, immigrate to German and work. One can have multiple degrees and not speak the language to the level needed or necessarily have needed licenses or certificates.

1. You really need to learn proper German. Look up the legal definition of the word Anspruch.

2. A foreigner needs a job offer fitting their qualifications and meeting the minimum salary requirements as well as a recognised degree to qualify for a Blue Card.

As long as all the minimum requirements are met, the worker actually has a right to a Blue Card.

Bei Vorliegen der Voraussetzungen besteht ein Rechtsanspruch auf die Erteilung der Blauen Karte EU.

https://www.bamf.de/DE/Themen/Migration … -node.html

Dear All: Please refrain from heated discussions, especially about topics not pertaining to the OP's question!

If this continues, I must ask the moderators to close the thread.

BS, nobody has a given "right" to any visa or residency permit. Your post ignores the most basics of the reasons for a blue card; to bring skilled people who are in short supply. Just having a degree is not an insurance that one can get a blue card, immigrate to German and work. One can have multiple degrees and not speak the language to the level needed or necessarily have needed licenses or certificates.

1. You really need to learn proper German. Look up the legal definition of the word Anspruch.

2. A foreigner needs a job offer fitting their qualifications and meeting the minimum salary requirements as well as a recognised degree to qualify for a Blue Card.

As long as all the minimum requirements are met, the worker actually has a right to a Blue Card.

Bei Vorliegen der Voraussetzungen besteht ein Rechtsanspruch auf die Erteilung der Blauen Karte EU.


https://www.bamf.de/DE/Themen/Migration … -node.html
-@Sunshine03

You keep going on about a blue card. Nobody needs a blue card. Stop conflating the requirement for one with getting a work visa. I know one needs a degree to get a blue card, never claimed otherwise.

But you claim everyone needs a degree to get a work visa and a visa without blue card is worthless - both absolutely not true. What is needed for a work visa are demanded skills. Not all skills are obtained through a degree. Technicians, mechanics, electricians, plumbers, many nurses etc. have vocational training without necessarily having a university degree and not chance of a blue card. Nurses and even truck drivers are presently being actively recruited to Germany from outside of the EU. This is fact.

Maybe you should learn German and English while you are at it since a narrow definition of "Fachkraft" means specialist or expert while "skilled" is a much broader term. And I know what Anspruch means but you are posting something out of context. But nobody has a "right" to a visa period. Beyond a job offer and other supporting qualifications like possible degree and salary; one still has to be clear of serious criminal convictions or belonging to a criminal, terrorist or undemocratic organization. Or the mere suspicion of intent to violation laws or conditions of immigration are enough to deny  a visa or even deny entry to one with a visa. If one can't enter the country they can't get a blue card either.

Bottom line; a German company needs a worker and can't find someone qualified from the EU but finds someone with the skills elsewhere. The government is not going to block them from recruiting them. The Schengen directive is to give high priority to EU workers and keep from having a flood of unskilled workers. But needed workers from fields not requring a university degree still have a chance.

BS, nobody has a given "right" to any visa or residency permit. Your post ignores the most basics of the reasons for a blue card; to bring skilled people who are in short supply. Just having a degree is not an insurance that one can get a blue card, immigrate to German and work. One can have multiple degrees and not speak the language to the level needed or necessarily have needed licenses or certificates.

1. You really need to learn proper German. Look up the legal definition of the word Anspruch.

2. A foreigner needs a job offer fitting their qualifications and meeting the minimum salary requirements as well as a recognised degree to qualify for a Blue Card.

As long as all the minimum requirements are met, the worker actually has a right to a Blue Card.

Bei Vorliegen der Voraussetzungen besteht ein Rechtsanspruch auf die Erteilung der Blauen Karte EU.


https://www.bamf.de/DE/Themen/Migration … -node.html
-@Sunshine03

You keep going on about a blue card. Nobody needs a blue card. Stop conflating the requirement for one with getting a work visa. I know one needs a degree to get a blue card, never claimed otherwise.

But you claim everyone needs a degree to get a work visa and a visa without blue card is worthless - both absolutely not true. What is needed for a work visa are demanded skills. Not all skills are obtained through a degree. Technicians, mechanics, electricians, plumbers, many nurses etc. have vocational training without necessarily having a university degree and not chance of a blue card. Nurses and even truck drivers are presently being actively recruited to Germany from outside of the EU. This is fact.

Maybe you should learn German and English while you are at it since a narrow definition of "Fachkraft" means specialist or expert while "skilled" is a much broader term. And I know what Anspruch means but you are posting something out of context. But nobody has a "right" to a visa period. Beyond a job offer and other supporting qualifications like possible degree and salary; one still has to be clear of serious criminal convictions or belonging to a criminal, terrorist or undemocratic organization. Or the mere suspicion of intent to violation laws or conditions of immigration are enough to deny  a visa or even deny entry to one with a visa. If one can't enter the country they can't get a blue card either.

Bottom line; a German company needs a worker and can't find someone qualified from the EU but finds someone with the skills elsewhere. The government is not going to block them from recruiting them. The Schengen directive is to give high priority to EU workers and keep from having a flood of unskilled workers. But needed workers from fields not requring a university degree still have a chance.

BS, nobody has a given "right" to any visa or residency permit. Your post ignores the most basics of the reasons for a blue card; to bring skilled people who are in short supply. Just having a degree is not an insurance that one can get a blue card, immigrate to German and work. One can have multiple degrees and not speak the language to the level needed or necessarily have needed licenses or certificates.

My pointing out the FACTS has nothing to do with "American privilege". I posted a link to the actual laws. I made no comparisons or context to requirements for Americans. Sounds like unfounded insults because one has no argument and a serious attitude problem about hating on Americans. Claiming that one cannot get a normal work visa if they don't qualify for a blue card is just nonsensical. Some jobs require a degree; others not.

I was actually giving you the benefit of the doubt because I thought your uninformed posts were due to your privilege, however, you've now made it clear that it is just your ignorance of the law. I don't have a problem with all Americans, just arrogant ones who can't admit to their ignorance.

I never claimed that a foreigner cannot obtain a normal work visa if they don't qualify for a Blue Card, I very clearly stated that foreigners need either a degree or vocational qualifications for a regular work visa (see §18 AufenthG). I also mentioned the BeschV, which makes it possible for foreigners without recognised degrees or vocational qualifications to obtain a work permit.

Truck drivers are able to obtain a work visa even without a degree / vocational qualifications if they meet the requirements set out in §24a BeschV.

The exceptions for workers in IT are laid out in §6 BeschV.

Verordnung über die Beschäftigung von Ausländerinnen und Ausländern (Beschäftigungsverordnung - BeschV)
§ 6 Beschäftigung in ausgewählten Berufen bei ausgeprägter berufspraktischer Erfahrung
Die Zustimmung kann Ausländerinnen und Ausländern für eine qualifizierte Beschäftigung in Berufen auf dem Gebiet der Informations- und Kommunikationstechnologie unabhängig von einer Qualifikation als Fachkraft erteilt werden, wenn die Ausländerin oder der Ausländer eine durch in den letzten sieben Jahren erworbene, mindestens dreijährige Berufserfahrung nachgewiesene vergleichbare Qualifikation besitzt, die Höhe des Gehalts mindestens 60 Prozent der jährlichen Beitragsbemessungsgrenze in der allgemeinen Rentenversicherung beträgt und die Ausländerin oder der Ausländer über ausreichende deutsche Sprachkenntnisse verfügt. § 9 Absatz 1 findet keine Anwendung. Im begründeten Einzelfall kann auf den Nachweis deutscher Sprachkenntnisse verzichtet werden. Das Bundesministerium des Innern, für Bau und Heimat gibt das Mindestgehalt nach Satz 1 für jedes Kalenderjahr jeweils bis zum 31. Dezember des Vorjahres im Bundesanzeiger bekannt.

-@Sunshine03

Thanks for actually validating most of my claims and disproving your own. And your profil claims you are Canadian and thus just as "privileged" as an American. So stop with your own arrogant insults and misinformation. Try staying on topic instead of making false personal attacks.