Healthcare in Vietnam

Julien · 2012-05-16 15:03:14

Hi,

how does the healthcare system works in Vietnam ? Is it efficient ?

What are the main differences between public and private sectors?

Is it recommended to purchase private health insurance in Vietnam?

Thanks in advance for sharing your experience !

Julien

l3ully · 2012-05-16 17:11:26

The Julien-Bot question smile

I know actually, you are not really interested in the answers.

However, apart from a few costly, western standard hospitals in the big cities, the situation is bad, very bad and for many local people out of reach.

- Patients - up to 3 sharing one bed - to save costs
- one way needles, get washed in a bucket on the floor and reused
- dirty WCs' walls and floors, often not even have water, to wash hands, commonly used by medical staff is well
- people have to tip doctors/nurses, to get at least a bit of attention
- doctors and nurses are commonly overworked and poorly managed/organised
- buildings appear commonly very worn down
- often, locals get send to stay back, if a western tourist appears only with a cough or sunburn

the list could go endless on, and a lot of room for improvement is left.

The worse of all is, NO MONEY UP FRONT + NO TREATMENT.

I did prior Vietnam not even know, that this is possible, without loosing the doctor title, but yes, it is.

Personally, I am lucky enough, to have access to western standard hospitals, if needed and even know 2 doctors as friends - but do not consider that as standard.
However, I have seen many people, "discharged" by a hospitals security "to die somewhere else", as they not had sufficient funds for treatment.

Vietnamese are very family orientated, but someone from another family can share easy the same luck as a street dog.

Last edited by l3ully (2012-05-16 17:12:06)

Julien · 2012-05-16 17:26:17

Hi l3ully, Julien-bot here smile

I strongly believe health care is a major concern for everyone who would like to move to Vietnam and your response will definitely help a lot of people. A big thanks for your response !

Jaitch · 2012-05-16 18:46:54

l3ully wrote:
,,, However, I have seen many people, "discharged" by a hospitals security "to die somewhere else", as they not had sufficient funds for treatment.

Wow, that is the very same system that US hospitals use.

No money, free taxi to county hospital.

Last edited by Jaitch (2012-05-16 18:49:34)

Halfway · 2012-05-17 01:21:49

Jaitch wrote:
l3ully wrote:
,,, However, I have seen many people, "discharged" by a hospitals security "to die somewhere else", as they not had sufficient funds for treatment.
Wow, that is the very same system that US hospitals use.

No money, free taxi to county hospital.

I would agree if it were true of Vietnam. However, despite it's shortcomings in healthcare generally, I don't think Vietnam is as backward as the US.

Vietnam is making progress......

So: Americans celebrate, your in safer hands!

Jaitch · 2012-05-17 04:03:50

Taking l3ully comments.

Ignoring the fact Julien might be wanting to stoke the post pot, l3ully's answers are less than gospel.

There are VN hospitals that meet Western standards - the Cho Ray, for one. It and a hospital in Ha Noi do organ transplants.

The Foreign-owned hospitals have profit motives and get a lot of business from insured patients.

Children up to 6-years are covered for health treatment, older than that there is user-pay.

Much of the problems for health centre around employment conditions. A properly employed VB will make, as will the employer, social payments. The problems arise when the employer pays cash, reducing their overhead, and the employee social benefit payments.

Nhu Lan Restaurant, for example, has the restaurant, the bakery and the delicatessen meat plants/factories. It is owned by two, very rich, old girls who sit in the restaurant all day. (I know they are rich as one owns the mid-town property occupied by an Australian school and that rent, alone, is around $50,000/month). All the staff are paid cash. She also pays for medical for staff - doctors or hospital. She pays staff for sick leave.

But that's it.

One of NL staff's son needed a circumcision operation, for urgent medical reasons, and the mother could not afford it (VND2,000,000) and was operated on at the clinic on Nguyen Du @ Ha Bai Trung. The doctor performed the operation "on credit" with the mother repaying the hospital so much per month.

The work was done in a professional manner, none of these "railway track" sewing jobs.

So hospitals do provide no-money-up-front service. The FV Hospital in Q7 is a cash=register up front foreign owned for profit outfit.

Hospitals will and do provide free emergency services to those who have accidents in the public area, they will accept patients resulting from industrial accidents - all without prepayment.

And that goes for VN citizens and Foreigners alike.

The standard of care varies across the country. As it does in all countries. Rural areas have 'nurses' who motorcycle from village to village dispensing their version of medical care.

BUT, they also have the back-up of doctors AND a medivac service in all parts of the country. (Old Russian helicopters run by Northern Air Service, based in Ha Noi, for the far north and as far west as Dien Bien Phu Province, VASCO in the south.)

The national government also buys medicines at extremely good rates and they are distributed through private and government pharmacies. (Panadol is 10 pills for VND10,000, 100 'water pills' for blood pressure control cost VND35,000).

The government pharmacies supply drugs to the poorest. A nominal fee is charged and often waived for the poorest.

I have never seen more than one person in a bed and I have visited big city and commune hospitals.

Needles! Twenty years ago there were shortages of needles, not now. I used to collect used needles in Canada, take them to drug user clinics and exchange them (free) on a one-for-one basis. Then i would carry thousands of needles (free of charge, thank you Cathay and Thai airlines) and bring them in to VN.

These days hospitals and doctors have supplies of new, factory sealed needles.

I was 'scooped' at the airport during the SARS scare and imprisoned in an isolation hospital for 4 days. Food was supplied (unusual) and whilst I would not eat off the floors of the toilets or bathrooms, they were cleaned regularly.

There is a lack of hot water, in non-medical areas, but at least the water is warmer than that I enjoyed in the military.

People do bribe doctors and nurses, who don't make huge amounts of money, just as they do police, teachers, etc. No tip does NOT equate to NO treatment.

Doctors and nurses are commonly overworked. Seems to go with the territory in all countries.

Buildings appear commonly very worn down. What do you want - shiny buildings or healthy patients?

Priority treatment for Foreigners. Might happen, but I have spent a fair amount of time in VN doctors waiting rooms.

Your claim, if true, that many people, "discharged" by a hospitals security "to die somewhere else", as they not had sufficient funds for treatment, is, as I said previously SOP in the USA. (And please don't come up with anti-US accusations. Go read (US discharge), (UK discharge)

If things are really so bad here, how come so many Foreigners want to move here to VN whether it is for work, retirement or pleasure? The answer is, as with many countries, it's not perfect but, there again, it's not bad.

And for those still not happy, there is always the departures gate at TSN.

Last edited by Jaitch (2012-05-17 04:29:44)

Anatta · 2012-05-17 04:26:54

My limited perspective on Vietnamese health care:

If you are healthy in general, Vietnam's health care system is good. Common medicines are cheap. Public health centers and hospitals charge you next to nothing for checkup or some outpatient treatment. Treatment like physiotherapy is cheap and efficient: you can get treatment by just turning up at the clinic without need for booking. Dental treatment is also reasonable. Even private practice Vietnamese doctors are also not expensive. Most of private practice doctors are actually doctors at public hospitals during the day.

The problem is if you suffer serious (or quite serious) illness or need specialist treatment. In that case, you are in deep trouble. The public (even some of the private) hospitals have neither capacity nor the expertise for that.
That is where health insurance is very useful.

So what is the conclusion? If you value your life, pay the money to get proper insurance. For myself, I know that if anything serious happens to me, I can always pay a flight ticket to BKK and check into Bumungrad (one of Asia's best hospitals) and get treatment to be fully paid by my insurance.

Last edited by Anatta (2012-05-17 04:36:47)

l3ully · 2012-05-17 04:30:24

Jaitch wrote:
Taking l3ully comments.

Ignoring the fact Julien might be wanting to stoke the post pot, l3ully's answers are less than gospel.

There are VN hospitals that meet Western standards - the Cho Ray, for one. It and a hospital in Ha Noi do organ transplants.

The Foreign-owned hospitals have profit motives and get a lot of business from insured patients.

Children up to 6-years are covered for health treatment, older than that there is user-pay.

Much of the problems for health centre around employment conditions. A properly employed VB will make, as will the employer, social payments. The problems arise when the employer pays cash, reducing their overhead, and the employee social benefit payments.

Nhu Lan Restaurant, for example, has the restaurant, the bakery and the delicatessen meat plants/factories. It is owned by two, very rich, old girls who sit in the restaurant all day. (I know they are rich as one owns the mid-town property occupied by an Australian school and that rent, alone, is around $50,000/month). All the staff are paid cash. She also pays for medical for staff - doctors or hospital. She pays staff for sick leave.

But that's it.

One of her staff's son needed a circumcision operation, for urgent medical reasons, and the mother could not afford it (VND2,000,000) and was operated on at the clinic on Nguyen Du @ Ha Bai Trung. The doctor performed the operation "on credit" with the mother repaying the hospital so much per month.

The work was done in a professional manner, none of these "railway track" sewing jobs.

So hospitals do provide no-money-up-front service. Must be talking about the FV Hospital in Q7.

Hospitals will and do provide free emergency services to those who have accidents in the publkic area, they will accept patients resulting from industrial accidents - all without prepayment.

And that goes for VN citizens and Foreigners alike.

The standard of care varies across the countrey. As it does in all countries. Rural areas have 'nurses' who motorcycle from village to village dispensing their version of medical care.

BUT, they also have the back-up of doctors AND a medivac service in all parts of the country. (Old Russian helicopters run by Northern Air Service, based in Ha Noi, for the far north and as far west as Dien Bien Phu Province, VASO in the south.)

The national government also buys medicines at extremely good rates and thery are distributed through private and governmebt pharmacies. (Panadol is 10 pills for VND10,000, 100 'water pills' for blood pressure control cost VND35,000).

The government pharmacies supply drugs to the poorest. A nominsl fee is charged.

I have never seen more than one person in a bed and I have visited big city and commune hospitals.

Needles! Twenty years ago there were shortages of needles, not now. I used to collect used needles in Canada, take them to drug user clinics and exchange them on a one-for-one basis. Then i would carry thousands of needles (free of chrge, thank you Cathay and Thai airlines) and bring them in to VN.

TThese days hospitals and doctors have supplies of new, factory sealed needles.

i was'scooped' at the airport during the SARS scare and imprisoned in an isolation hospital for 4 days. Food was supplied (unusual) and whilst I would eat off the floors of the toilets or bathrooms, they were cleaned regularly/

There is a lack of hot waterm in non-medical areas, but at least the water is warmer than that I enjoyed in the military.

People do bribe doctors and nurses, who don't make huge amounts of money, just as they do police, teachers, etc. No tip does NOT equate to NO treatment.

Doctors and nurses are commonly overworked. Seems tpo go with the territory in all countries.

Buildings appear commonly very worn down. What do you want - shiny buildings or healthy pstients.

Priority treatment for Foreigners. Might happen, but I have spent a fair amount of time in VVN doctors waiting rooms.

Your claim, if true, that many people, "discharged" by a hospitals security "to die somewhere else", as they not had sufficient funds for treatment, is, as I said previously SOP in the USA. (And please don't come up with anti-US accusations. Go read (US dischare), (UK discharge)

If things are really so bad here, how come so many Foreignrs want to move here whether it is for work, retirement or pleasure? The answer is, as with many countries, it's not perfect but, there again, it's not bad.

I have never seen more than one person in a bed and I have visited big city and commune hospitals.
- I have, with my own eyes, 3 actually sharing a single bed

Your claim, if true, that many people, "discharged" by a hospitals security "to die somewhere else", as they not had sufficient funds for treatment, is, as I said previously SOP in the USA. (And please don't come up with anti-US accusations. Go read ..

Seen that twice in about 5 visits, and believe me, it's a horrible feeling to see that and getting a rough translation from my other half - alone money was the issue

In fact, nobody denies improvement, but room for improvement is a lot.
As at least our hospitals have signs of photographs forbidden and one even is in a military object, I rally don't dare to picture my previous statements.
And yes, I agree also, some locations are better off than others and nobody denies, that are "free" services for certain things available.

Some of the above issues are also quite frequently stated in the VN online news papers- so I assume, I have not only noticed the rare exception - but some more far to frequent shortcomings.

Yes, and where I live, there is a long way to a "decent" hospital, so my wife took me just to the next, as I was not able to make a decision myself (passed out by some Dengue Fever) over 2 years ago.

There are hopefully some improvements in the mean time; As I am not a frequent hospital fan by nature, I tend to avoid them - wherever, whichever.

Herea link, where VN press repoerts http://english.vietnamnet.vn/en/vietnam … oaded.html
http://www.thanhniennews.com/index/page … etnam.aspx
http://talkvietnam.com/2012/03/health-m … fter-2015/
http://vietnamnews.vnagency.com.vn/soci … itals.html

Last edited by l3ully (2012-05-17 04:52:31)

Anatta · 2012-05-17 04:33:13

Apropos public hospitals, the Vietnamese newspapers have lately written a lot about the overburdened health care system. In fact, I just read one article about it this morning.

The most common refrain is "No tea-money to the doctors, no treatment: just wait in queue".

Anatta · 2012-05-17 04:46:01

Another key assumption for all of what have been discussed is the expats live in big cities. If you live out in small towns or even in the outskirts of big cities, you will not get good health care support.

One case in point: I was visiting Can Gio two weeks ago. On the way back, I saw a horrible accident on the highway connecting Can Gio and Sai Gon. Since it was on the other side of the Saigon river, there was no ambulance. People helped and took the unconscious bodies on the motorbike to the ferry to be transported across the river!!!.

Jaitch · 2012-05-17 08:31:11

Guess Julie got his discussion.

l3ully
Every system in every country has tales of woe. No country is immune from it.

You mentioned photographs. Could this be in the miitary hospital in Nha Trang? No photographs at any military installation is a standard issue sign.

You should visit the MeKong, almost every People's Committee Main Office has, in English, facing the street, signs saying No Photographs.
And yes, I agree also, some locations are better off than others and nobody denies, that are "free" services for certain things available.

Try taking pictures in London, England, og government offices and watch what the police do. Blank your memory chips.

If you run a registered publication in VietNam you get a plethora of suggestions, including news that should be highlighted. That hospital problems are highlighted suggests that someone in government what's the problem raised in profile.

It makes sense that there be grades of hospitals serving different communities. Even in TP HCM there are community 'clinics' who act as a first line and then refer the harder, more complicated cases to bigger hospitals. If it makes sense in in TP HCM, it makes even more sense in less populated areas of the country.

Avoiding hospitals is a good idea, they are the dirtiest places around - for bugs.I use VN doctors for VN bugs and Western doctors for more serious problems. In 1970, I returned to Toronto and developed an extreme fever, My 'white' doctor couldn't figure it, so I went to a Vietnamese doctor who had immigrated to Canada. When I saw him he immediately said I had malaria.

Don't knock people who work in remote areas, they often have more hands-on experience with local diseases that big city doctors. Doctors in Da Lat, Dak Lak, Gia Lai and KonTum are really the experts when it comes to mosquito borne diseases because the heavy mosquito season lasts six months. If yon visit some of those straw huts where the indigenous people live around Da Lat, that quiet buzzing noise you hear are all the bugs in the straw roofs!

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Healthcare in Vietnam

#1 2012-05-16 15:03:14

Healthcare in Vietnam

#2 2012-05-16 17:11:26

Re: Healthcare in Vietnam

#3 2012-05-16 17:26:17

Re: Healthcare in Vietnam

#4 2012-05-16 18:46:54

Re: Healthcare in Vietnam

l3ully wrote:

#5 2012-05-17 01:21:49

Re: Healthcare in Vietnam

Jaitch wrote:

l3ully wrote:

#6 2012-05-17 04:03:50

Re: Healthcare in Vietnam

#7 2012-05-17 04:26:54

Re: Healthcare in Vietnam

#8 2012-05-17 04:30:24

Re: Healthcare in Vietnam

Jaitch wrote:

#9 2012-05-17 04:33:13

Re: Healthcare in Vietnam

#10 2012-05-17 04:46:01

Re: Healthcare in Vietnam

#11 2012-05-17 08:31:11

Re: Healthcare in Vietnam

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