US Chamber of Commerce Libya set to establish in Tripoli- Advice ?

Hi US Chamber of Commerce and welcome to Expat.com!

Hope that you'll soon be enlightened.

Harmonie.

Not much to it, Though you'd have to be a tiny bit suicidal to live here, I've had to plan a route around a small scale battlefield on my way home tonight.
Although in general -and during the day- things are quite well.
If you have specific concerns, go ahead and ask.

well I will simply say there are a lot of expats who came back here you can ask them if you know any as they will give you an outsider idea as I am Libyan, for my part I think you can come here and you won't find a problem, after the elections in June the stuff should be much stable as no one will complain about any government any more!!
Maybe the only thing to not do in Libya now is not to go late in night outside in far places like after 10 p.m. however city center and around is very busy all the night and it is just fine .

libya2011 wrote:

well I will simply say there are a lot of expats who came back here you can ask them if you know any as they will give you an outsider idea as I am Libyan, for my part I think you can come here and you won't find a problem, after the elections in June the stuff should be much stable as no one will complain about any government any more!!
Maybe the only thing to not do in Libya now is not to go late in night outside in far places like after 10 p.m. however city center and around is very busy all the night and it is just fine .

As someone who is part of a group which closely follows Libya and the progress as we are trying to get foreign aid and help for education (as it seems almost all the "aid" is earmarked for the oil and gas industry), the issues with the elections are:

a) If they happen at all
b) As things stand now, there is a good chance it might not solve anything.

The factions which are crying "foul play" now are also going to be crying "foul play" if the elections happen and they or the ones they back don't get elected or if they don't get what they demand they are entitled to.

And should the elections happen and the people vote, the opposing factions can very easily just continue to do what they are currently doing which is ignoring the legitimacy of the current government and continuing to push for "another" one which "they" think is "more" legitimate" to rule and manage finances.

Dear all,

I do not usually post of forums for they mostly become negative. First of all to the comment the working in Libya is suicidal, that comment is clearly ignorant as it shows the lack of understanding that Libya is going through some very difficult moments, and it is OUR duty as Canadians, US, British to support them not just with NATO but with high level diplomacy, education and electoral support.

Having worked in many war zones, and as a career Foreign service officer I have some understanding of the complex nature of post conflict development.  I, as someone working to support Trade and Development between the US and Libya see the private sector as the best solution to supporting Libya at this time, as the private sector has the economic flexibility to allocate funds where they may be required.

If we do not start working now in Libya, then we will forfeit our right to participate in a meaningful way with the Libyan's and rightfully so. It easy to live in Tripoli when things are good, and all is calm, but now is the time to separate those with only commercial interests and those with real support for Libya and its people.  We must understand this as the international community.


The elections are an issue and I agree that they must be managed much better. I however, feel that at this point most Libyans just want to go on with their lives, put their children in school and get back to life. The issue of young people with guns, can be resolved with work, through economic stability the rest will follow.

Therefore, please do not continue to post negative points about Libya, I also feel that the adrenaline junky expat looking for some self validation by getting mixed up in gunfights seems a little too much out of some bad movie

FYI: Registration for a voting card had been going on since the start of the month, TV news reports +300,000 people have registered (that was a few days ago).

Your post is very much valid and also very vague as to informing people of the realities of dealing within a country going through a major change in government and stability flux.

Yes, getting there first is important, but its also important to inform people that that "local partner" you secure today might tomorrow be labeled an enemy of the state and the law which is legal today might become illegal tomorrow at a moments notice.

US Chamber of Commerce wrote:

Dear all,

I do not usually post of forums for they mostly become negative. First of all to the comment the working in Libya is suicidal, that comment is clearly ignorant as it shows the lack of understanding that Libya is going through some very difficult moments, and it is OUR duty as Canadians, US, British to support them not just with NATO but with high level diplomacy, education and electoral support.

Having worked in many war zones, and as a career Foreign service officer I have some understanding of the complex nature of post conflict development.  I, as someone working to support Trade and Development between the US and Libya see the private sector as the best solution to supporting Libya at this time, as the private sector has the economic flexibility to allocate funds where they may be required.

If we do not start working now in Libya, then we will forfeit our right to participate in a meaningful way with the Libyan's and rightfully so. It easy to live in Tripoli when things are good, and all is calm, but now is the time to separate those with only commercial interests and those with real support for Libya and its people.  We must understand this as the international community.


The elections are an issue and I agree that they must be managed much better. I however, feel that at this point most Libyans just want to go on with their lives, put their children in school and get back to life. The issue of young people with guns, can be resolved with work, through economic stability the rest will follow.

Therefore, please do not continue to post negative points about Libya, I also feel that the adrenaline junky expat looking for some self validation by getting mixed up in gunfights seems a little too much out of some bad movie

So it's not even a bit suicidal to leave a perfectly safe country and live in a country where everyone has a gun and clashes break out every other week?
Well I'm sorry, I suppose it's perfectly safe to have bullets flying over your car on your way home, enjoy your stay... I hope you get the full Libyan experience

Having come back from Tripoli and regularly speaking with my Libyan friends, I have to agree with Douglas1969.

I do agree the private sector does have a significant role to play in getting the country back to its feet. However, getting foreign private sector investment will prove to be a huge challenge. For example;

How do you know if the Libyan Govt will honour new contracts? The decision-making process still appears to be quite opaque. Who is to say they aren't cancelled following the full elections in 18 months time?

What happens if your Libyan partner is subsequently accused of being a Gadaffi loyalist?

The Libyan legal arena is also in transition, so relying on legal recourse is a huge risk.

Libya is on the edge of something great but I believe change will be slow and require a change in mentality.

For a balanced picture/debate it is very important to welcome all comments, positive or negative.

Guys, dont you expect from "US Chamber of Commerce" aknowledging that Libya is not safe. He represents an official body, it is his job to bring foreign investment to Libya, he cant talk otherwise. May God help him!

Unfortunately, all that I see (read,listen) what Libyans do to overcome this negative period is confined with wishing, hoping, praying and sometimes collectively cleaning their streets.

I still cannot understand why transional government hasnt started buying back the weapons?

Being an American, I see a few "red flags" popping up concerning US Chamber of Commerce. As a "career foreign service worker" and having an "official status" he would have specific channels to work through rather than asking the silly question "is it safe there"?  Just know this.... the true US Chamber of Commerce is a very large and diverse group of businesses whose goal is to promote collective business interests that will benefit member businesses.  It is NOT a US government agency. The United States Department of Commerce is the government agency. Read more here: http://www.uschamber.com/about    Before becoming involved in business, charity, or NGO with anyone be they American, British, Chinese, or Libyan --- CHECK them out and verify their legitimacy.
@ USChamber  Yeah, I'm a bit harsh and jaded.  If you want, you can PM to me your details and I will verify them.  If you and your interests are indeed legitimate I will retract my statement of distrust.

Hi all,

I get a sens that alots of people here saying negative things becuz they cannt get anything from libya now after thier big boss was killed. I am in Libya right now and have been since june 2011 Things are just fine business is picking up real fast. yes there are some problems here and there yes they are arresting poeple specially from Werfalah becuz most of them were in Qadafis army but if you have not done anything you shouldnt be afraid.



Cheers

MO

US Chamber has PM'd me and I will check out his affiliations.  Will get back with you all next week.

Mo_marrakech wrote:

Hi all,

I get a sens that alots of people here saying negative things becuz they cannt get anything from libya now after thier big boss was killed. I am in Libya right now and have been since june 2011 Things are just fine business is picking up real fast. yes there are some problems here and there yes they are arresting poeple specially from Werfalah becuz most of them were in Qadafis army but if you have not done anything you shouldnt be afraid.



Cheers

MO

As usual Mo_marrakech, you are on your trend

GISgirl wrote:

US Chamber has PM'd me and I will check out his affiliations.  Will get back with you all next week.

GIS Girl is absolutely right. Working for US Chamber of Commerce, does not make one a career foreign service officer; one is private and latter is a government/public position.
Unless s/he is a retired civil servant who is now working for US Chamber of Commerce...
Let's put it this way; one cannot say one is civil servant (foreign service) and working for US Chamber of Commerce.
Does not make sense...
fk

It amazes me how forums turn from the focus, which is clearly critical information regarding Libya and the international community into 'gossip' and fairly silly commentary.

The Chamber of Commerce supports private enterprise, full stop

www.uslibyacouncil.org - Which is an AmCham ( American Chamber of Commerce-biaterial trade organization- a 501 c6

I would very much like to refocus on the topic of Libya and those entering Libya or with valid information about the country.

1. I am hearing that the elections may not be held due to lack of correct registrations, is this correct


2. How many foreign workers are now back in Libya

3. Are schools for international students reopening ?

4. What are the major shortages in respect to Food ( can you buy most items now in stores)

5. What news channels are operating within Libya

6. What is the status of Blackberry service and cell phone service

US Chamber of Commerce wrote:

It amazes me how forums turn from the focus, which is clearly critical information regarding Libya and the international community into 'gossip' and fairly silly commentary.

The Chamber of Commerce supports private enterprise,

You are right, then it is silly to call yourself a "career foreign service officer" which is NOT a private enterprise position. This is not gossip, this is about trust and misrepresentations on line.

Parading as a government officer and a Chamber of Commerce employee both at the same time is not cool man. EVen/especially if you are on a secret government mission, still it is just not cool.

One wonders who is frolicking along the streets of Tripoli right now?

fk

Is this you?

U.S.-Libya Chamber of Commerce

"The U.S.-Libya Chamber of Commerce (USLCC) is the official advocacy organization under the US Chamber of Commerce representing America's top companies doing business with Libya. The chamber was founded in December 2011, and is now fully active in 2012.

The USLCC is led by its President Adam Hock. Mr. Hock was an early supporter of the rebel movement, co-founding the Independent Libya Foundation with Libyan national Basit Igtet. Mr. Hock personally visited the presidents of several heads of state, successfully lobbying for early recognition of the Libyan Transitional National Council (TNC). As such, he has forged strong relationships with the Libyan TNC, now the official Government of Libya."

Libya remains very unstable at this point, especially given the backward thinking of some segments of the population.  With armed militias still roaming the streets, firing guns to get their own way or picking up civilians as they please, the future will be rocky.  Many innocent civilians are still being picked up, tortured and held for ransom.  Certain tribes have been targetted as the thinking is that they were supporters of the past government.  This type of discrimination and abuse will do nothing to assist with the rebuilding process.  If anything, it will add to its' failure.  It is much like the 'Wild West' with the Sheriff no where to be found.  The only way I see to move forward is to repeal law 38 and to have TRUE reconciliation.  Many countries have proven that it is possible....it just takes courage and bravery to stand up to and reject the calls for hate and revenge.

US Chamber of Commerce wrote:

1. I am hearing that the elections may not be held due to lack of correct registrations, is this correct

Well that is really scary. The longer they postpone elections the longer investors will stay away from Libya.(((

Masterr wrote:

US Chamber of Commerce wrote:

1. I am hearing that the elections may not be held due to lack of correct registrations, is this correct

Well that is really scary. The longer they postpone elections the longer investors will stay away from Libya.(((

I am 100% certain that election will be held. I am also 100% certain that the election results will be disputed and called invalid but everyone who doesn't win. Its very difficult to have fair elections when the opponents are all armed.

Adam Hock - wiki

douglas1969 wrote:

Masterr wrote:

US Chamber of Commerce wrote:

1. I am hearing that the elections may not be held due to lack of correct registrations, is this correct

Well that is really scary. The longer they postpone elections the longer investors will stay away from Libya.(((

I am 100% certain that election will be held. I am also 100% certain that the election results will be disputed and called invalid but everyone who doesn't win. Its very difficult to have fair elections when the opponents are all armed.

Mr. Certain, do you have a crystal ball showing you the future? or are you palm reader?
being 100% certain and not even 99% makes you the world's No. 1 predictor.
As long as you are not living in Libya be realistic and do not try to look stupid especially if your predictions turned up to be wrong and im sure they will.
by the way, stop reading news about Libya, I see many reporters in Libya walking around and looking for anything to happen to make a story out of it.

m0j0working wrote:

Adam Hock - wiki

That ain't no "career foreign service worker" ; that is a NYC, Manhattan night club hopper/bully :-)
fk

fatmakumru wrote:

m0j0working wrote:

Adam Hock - wiki

That ain't no "career foreign service worker" ; that is a NYC, Manhattan night club hopper/bully :-)
fk

mancunian wrote:

douglas1969 wrote:

Masterr wrote:

Well that is really scary. The longer they postpone elections the longer investors will stay away from Libya.(((

I am 100% certain that election will be held. I am also 100% certain that the election results will be disputed and called invalid but everyone who doesn't win. Its very difficult to have fair elections when the opponents are all armed.

Mr. Certain, do you have a crystal ball showing you the future? or are you palm reader?
being 100% certain and not even 99% makes you the world's No. 1 predictor.
As long as you are not living in Libya be realistic and do not try to look stupid especially if your predictions turned up to be wrong and im sure they will.
by the way, stop reading news about Libya, I see many reporters in Libya walking around and looking for anything to happen to make a story out of it.

No crystal balls. I am certain because of 2 reasons.

a) Libya is not the first or the last country to emerge out of a dictatorship and try to transition into a "quasi" democracy. This has been tried before many times by many people, the same cycle: claims of rigged elections, funny back hand dealings, in some unfortunate cases a new military coup or dictator replaced the dictatorship. [1]

b) That's sort of how democracy works. The loser(s) always call foul play. The difference being that in the West, the losing political party don't have 1,000's of guns and can't take to the streets shooting and easily get away with it.

But its true what you believe, anything is possible, and there is always the chance that Libya will be different. I have always claimed that because of the small population and the fact that almost all the population is Arab it should be different and better. How many disputes and differences can there possibly be  amongst a small population which is relatively similar in  ethnicity and religion?

[1] I think its important to remove this false notion that the Sahara desert is somehow the border and separation between the Libya and the rest of the problems plaguing Africa.  If anything, one of the more peculiar things I have taken from the aftermath of the fall of Qaddaffi is that because of his many years of building closer ties with other African nations, it almost seems that he also somehow dragged the problems of Africa a lot closer to Libya than compared to other arab North African countries. Just my impression and I am sure there are many who are very capable of proving me wrong.

OK, it seems that the USLCC is as legit as any other Chamber.  It is not accredited by the US Chamber but neither are the vast majority of the 1,000's of city and state chambers.  (I have not called them but they have phone and email)  I am a bit confused over the presidency of the USLCC, I have it listed as Sarah Bonfman.  It looks like Adam Hock and buddies Basit Iget a Libyan national, Sarah Bonfman - Iget's (fiance??), and the author of this thread have started 2 groups - the ILF and the USLCC.  I do remember a time not so long ago that each acceptance by a country of the TNC was a prayer answered... so I am willing to give these folks the benefit of the doubt.  Libyans on the whole use a vast network of connections (family, friends, and wasta) to get anything so I think that we are talking parallel Libyas here - one of the government, foreign companies, UN etc. and one of "just plain Libyans".  Can the USLCC bridge the gap to improve conditions on the ground?  I honestly don't know.  Is it safe to open an office in Tripoli? Sure, why not... I'm sure USLCC has seen worse in other countries.  There is a bit of "commerce" going on informally between Libyans and Americans already - who knows, maybe you can offer 'how to" workshops or something.

GISgirl wrote:

OK, it seems that the USLCC is as legit as any other Chamber.

OK great.. but that does not make them "career foreign service workers" does it? I thought that expression is reserved for the State Department employees, and others on the government payroll.
fk