Buying an apartment in Jakarta

sammys wrote:

Hi guys. I'm an Indonesian but have lived in Sydney now for 20 years. I am looking into buying an investment property in Jakarta (maybe a two-bedroom apartment around Kuningan area) but  I have no idea where to start. Does anyone know a good and trustworthy real estate agent in Jakarta I can speak to? Or if any of you guys in the same position as well? I usually visit my family back home every other year so I need to be able to keep tab on any property whilst living in Sydney. Any advise will be greatly appreciated

Hi, Sammy,
you can touch with Era property call +6281294590547 Cheers

You could try Era Property, Century 21 and Ray White being some of the largest. And you probably already know that you can only believe about 50% of what a property agent tells you.

Property prices in Jakarta are peaking at the moment, with rents and sale listings way above what is affordable to the vast majority of Indonesians.

Good to know, thanks for the replies guys.  Property prices here in Sydney is out of this world - the market has slowed down a bit here but Indonesian property market is still very attractive compared to here.

Don't just look at the property market, see how the shops are doing, especially luxury goods.
Luxury goods sales are the first to suffer in a down trending market, and I'm seeing a lot of shops close down.
One centre has lost four camera shop and several computer shops since the new year, but other centres are doing even worse.
My favourite, Ratu place, is losing a lot of outlets now and a lot of the remaining places are poorly stocked.
It's still a very good place to shop for technology (and the Australian steak house in there is still fantastic - I love their typhoon burgers), but the mall isn't what it was two years ago.
A note - it remains my favourite mall, and I'm often seen buying cameras and other tech there.
The closed shops indicates a tightening of belts, and suggests taking care in major investments.

There are so many tower blocks here popping up it would be wise to shop about as all are offering different deals and prices but all are next to a toll and only 20 minutes from the airport which is fantastic news.

Fred, that is a very interesting insight! I still remember Ratu Plaza (I must try the steakhouse next time I'm in Jakarta). Do you think that this trend of people spending less will last (I know how Indonesians love their shopping) or is it because the shops have lost the competition with online shops? It's very good to have an expat's insight into Indonesia as I am not really aware how Indonesian economy is nowadays. I was thinking of renting out the apartment in Jakarta to business expats since I don't live there myself. Either that or move my family members to the apartment to live in.

Shops are having problems.
One set of ruko near me has seen a good few businesses come and go bust over the last couple of years.
Small restaurants just can't make any money with a Rp100 million/year cost around their necks before they even open the doors.
On line will be causing some problems for Indonesian shops, but not all that much as that style of business is still small and yet to become popular with the masses.

Hi Sammy,
May I know if you still hold the Indonesian passport?
I wonder if someone may give explaination on how is it regulated in Indonesia for foreigners to buy a property?

Yes sir, it's a logical move but I would say to avoid it. The market has peaked and is now building a tremendous bubble which is bound to pop within the next year or so.

Thus whatever you invest in could well lose a large chunk of its value, either through market collapse or through another great rupiah devaluation.

I would also look carefully at value-for-money. There are serious questions about build quality and ergonomics. Oppressively low ceilings, tiny lifts always jammed, long waits, doors and windows that start to jam as a building settles, and the effects of a building settling on PVC piping in the walls. In many buildings, the lower floors have to be "perfumed" with floral spray every day, as sewage has seeped into the walls from cracks in the piping.

Never forget that all of DKI is sitting on a giant estuary - mud, basically - and it continues to settle. Jl. Sudirman has sunk well over a meter in the past 20 years, mainly because of stupidly pumping water from artesian wells (too cheap to pay PAM), and thus you get the spectacle every year of "Kali Thamrin" and "Kali Sudirman". Even Istana Negara and Monas areas are being flooded.

For investment think about a secondary city like Samarinda, Balikpapan, Bandar Lampung etc. They are hot - lots of construction going on, upwardly-mobile middle classes and considerably lower prices. Build quality will be no better of course.

I've gone on at length here because you'll hear none of this from the real estate industry (money-laundering paradise).

Hello Dee, yes I still hold Indonesian passport. I'm an Australian permanent resident here in Sydney, has been for a very long time. Was thinking about getting an Australian passport as I still have to get visas if I want to go to most other part of the world but the only thing that stops me so far is the fact that I won't be able to buy a property back home if I give mine up.

Byron, many thanks for your input... this is exactly why I post in this forum as I need to know the pros and cons before putting in such a massive investment.

Yes sir. Sorry to sound so negative but the builders and property companies are desperate to move their units right now.

It is important to bear in mind that when a developer borrows money in Australia or Canada to built residential units, he can most likely do so for, what, 2~4%? I'm talking about a name company with a good track record.

Here a firm that builds LOTS of these high-rises, like Agung Podomoro, is likely paying around 12~13% interest on their loans. This means they have to get all the permissions, slap them together and move the property as quickly as they can. If their profit margin is 25%, then after 24 months they are losing money on every unsold unit. This is really not such a good sign but it's a fact of life.

On the other hand, you might want to check out some of the luxury condo towers going up right now, such as the ones mushrooming in the SCBD. They are most likely built to considerably higher standards and should ideally hold their value. You'd be in for US$ 500,000 upwards but there is still a great deal of money around to invest in (and gamble on the value of) high-end units. What you pay a million bucks for on the Gold Coast will cost you half that here.

(I do a lot of editing of financial copy so that's why I am so apparently knowledgeable. I am not a player however.)

What type of title do you hold to this property, Helmi?

Do you have sewerage, water, electricity, internet and other telecommunication access to your property arranged? How far from a major road? Public transportation access and what type? Supermarkets, schools?

Please provide more and detailed information if you want to engender serious interest in your project.

South coast especially the Kuta (yes there is one here also) is an up and coming area in Lombok. Of course, due to ethnic mix, what ''goes'' here is far different from Kuta in Bali. I expect for most expats in Indonesia this would be one of the prime attractions of living in Lombok at least for a 2nd home.

I'm of the understanding that virtually all of that prime land in Kuta, Lombok (waterfront) was bought up years ago.  I remember taking a serious interest in it over 15 years ago and it was impossible. 

Indostocks, you're totally spot on...virtually no comparison between Kuta, Bali and Kuta, Lombok.  Kuta, Lombok is breathtakingly beautiful and let's hope it isn't spoiled when development finally takes hold.  With this in mind, thinking ahead to when the 5 star resorts finally develop the Kuta, Lombok waterfront, another question I would have for Helmi would be regarding beachfront access from his "hilltop" location?   

Another area worth serious considering is the southern shore of Flores.  A pain in the neck to get to, but again, awesomely beautiful and unspoiled and an easy going local populous too.

Hello Helmi

Thanks for your response and partial answers to my queries.

Is there any planning authority in Kuta (Lombok) that could be relied upon to prevent overdevelopment and ensuing degradation of what is still an unspoiled and now relatively accessible part of Indonesia?

I would like to take you up on the offer to send me more details. You can send me a PM and/or reply on this site where all of us would have the opportunity to express an interest.

Roy, I must manage my time better and find time to head off the beaten track around Labuhanbajo, Rinca & Komodo islands and discover the southern shoreline of Flores. Have already seen spectacular beach and primal (?) forest scenery on the Sumba's south coast, relatively close to Waikabubak near Sumba Nautil Resort. Plus the valued contact with the local residents on Sumba reminds me what makes and maintains Indonesia a special country.

Hello Helmi

Appreciate your response.

I, along with many or most members blogging here, think it is better for the free flow of ideas that one can post anonymously. From time to time associations form and should this be necessary, contact details can be exchanged through PM. Not trying to be 'sombong' here, just keeping in spirit of this blogsite...

You have provided an email link to your project, thank you - I will provide questions/comments in due course.

Regards