Re-entering after overstaying my welcome

Hello thehidden,

In typical Brazilian fashion, the staff at the Consulado-Geral do Brasil you contacted don't have a clue what they're talking about. Sad to say this is all too common at all Consulados around the world. Incompetence is the accepted norm, which I'm sure you already know, having yourself lived here in Brazil for an extended period. Now to address your particular situation...

The first thing that you need to be aware of is the fact that since they are subject to a fine, overstay days are not counted in calculating the number of days of an individual's entitlement to stay in Brazil. It doesn't matter if they enter on a Consular Visa (document applied for through Consulado and attached to their passport) or a Visa Waiver Program entry (stamp in their passport), commonly referred to as an "airport visa" as would be your case with a UK passport.

The calculation of one's stay entitlement on VWP entries is based on the date of your FIRST EVER entry into Brazil. This effectively becomes the beginning of the new year. You are allowed to be in Brazil for 3 months in any 6 month (i.e. 90 days in a 180 day) period from that date onward. The beginning of the new year for you will always be February 4th.

Because of a separate arrangement with the UK, their passport holders may apply to extend that stay for an additional 90 days exactly like individuals who hold Consular Visas. This is not permitted (officially) with other VWP entries, but even so the Federal Police will sometimes even extend their visits as well. So now, you know just about all there is to know about the calculation of stay process.

Your overstay obviously took you well over the 180 day annual limit, so you would under normal circumstances need to wait 6 months from your date of departure if you had left Brazil on the date on which your visa stay expired. That would put you into (your) new year. If six months have elapsed since that date (which they obviously have in your case) then you may re-enter the country with no problems whatsoever. On February 4, 2014 and February 4, 2015 you would have normally been entitled to a new 180 day annual limit and in practice during any year, exactly HOW you use those days is completely up to you provided that you don't exceed 90 at any one time without requesting an extension, and 180 days maximum. In theory you could come and go, week on and week off ad infinitum.

So, if you enter Brazil anytime before February 4, 2016 you'll be entitled to 180 days if there are actually 180 remaining until February 4, 2016. Otherwise you'll be allowed just the remaining balance until your new year.

Just make sure that you pay the fine upon arrival and you'll have no problems. That's going to involve some scheduling of your arrival on your part. Your arrival must coincide with normal banking hours, since the standard practice is for the Federal Police to accompany you to the airport's bank branch where you'd pay the GRU for the fine. If you arrive outside of normal banking hours or on a weekend, then you're going to experience problems and delays. What I would recommend you do in that case is to have someone here visit the DPF website and generate, print and pay the GRU for the fine. The GRU once paid is valid for a period of 5 years, once it's paid it can be sent to you by EXPRESS MAIL which is called SEDEX here (don't rely on normal mail) and then you will have the receipt on hand to show the Federal Police agent upon arrival.

The webpage for the GRU is here:  https://servicos.dpf.gov.br/gru/gru?nac=1&rec=2

In the field for "Unidade Arrecadadora" click the down arrow and scroll down the list until you find the delegacy for your point of entry (example SP (106-6)  DELEGACIA DO AEROPORTO INTERNACIONAL - GUARULHOS/SP or RJ (105-8) DELEGACIA DO AEROPORTO INTERNACIONAL - GALEO/RJ). Click on that line to enter the delegacy in the blank field.

In the field for "Código da Receita STN" click on the magnifying glass and scroll down to...

140414      Multa      DEMORAR-SE NO TERRITORIO NACIONAL APOS ESGOTADO O PRAZO LEGAL DE ESTADA (MINIMO: R$ 8,28 - MAXIMO: R$ 827,75)     8,28

Click on that line to enter it in the form and enter the max. amount of R$827,75 in the appropriate box. That's what you'll need to have paid at a Brazilian bank within 7 days of printing off the GRU. Presumably you have a friend, girlfriend, or someone here who will be doing this for you.

Once that's paid and you get the GRU back, keep it with your passport and on arrival present it to the agent to prove the fine has already been paid. You'll breeze through like nothing had ever happened.

So, now you've got your situation all sorted out. You should have come here first rather than wasting your time with the Consulado-Geral do Brasil. 

Cheers,
James     Expat-blog Experts Team.

Wow, I sure should have come here a long time ago, it would have saved me a ton of headaches!! James, it's very much appreciated, keep up the wonderful work!

so, my new year started 04/Feb/2015 and I have 6 months out 12, so that means I would have until 04/August/2015. However I left Brazil 14/July/2015. Does this mean they would give me a visa for 3 weeks approx?

however, if I overstay again, I'll just pay the fine again?

is all this correct?

Guess you kind of misunderstood the explanation.

Let's say you came back to Brazil tomorrow Monday, September 14. The rest of your year would run until  Wednesday. February 3, 2016, which is 143 days. So you would be allowed an initial stay of 90 days and could request an extension for the remaining 53 days that would end on February 3.

Cheers,
James   Expat-blog Experts Team

ok understood, it all makes sense now, thanks.

When I choose the "unidade arrecadadora" does it  have to be my actual point of entry, if I wrote rj and my flight is to sp, would that cause a problem?

Since, I'm not yet 100% sure which point of entry it will be.

Yes, it may cause a problem, but not a major one. The most important part is that you have substantial proof that the outstanding fine was paid, and the GRU will have all the information that is required for anyone in the DPF to understand what the payment was all about. Where it was paid is of secondary importance when you consider it all ends up in the federal government's hands in the end.

Cheers,
James    Expat-blog Experts Team

thanks for clarifying that, much appreciated!

Hi James! There's also the option "SUPERINTENDÊNCIA REGIONAL NO ESTADO DO RIO DE JANEIRO", would you know the difference?

The Supreintendência Regional is the headquarters for the region. That is where they usually always deal with expats in the Setor de Estrangeiro. In Rio they also do permanency applications at Galeão Airport as far as I'm aware.

Some smaller cities in Brazil only have a Delegacy, and in those you have to find the nearest Superintendência Regional to you.

Cheers,
James    Expat-blog Experts Team

James, thank you so much for all your very helpful information. 
I would like to clarify that I understand...
I am American
My tourist Visa was issued on January 21st 2015
I extended my Visa and stayed 180 days
Then have stayed past that, currently still in Brazil (today is December 4th 2015). 
If I leave Brazil, will I easily be able to come back in?  I understand there is a fee to be paid for staying longer than 180 days. 
If I leave I can re-enter Brazil after January 21st 2016 which will be the start of my new Visa year. 

Thank you again!

Hello, Sir James,

     I had applied for visa in Pakistan, through https://scedv.serpro.gov.br/frscedv/ind … ?lang=eng, after printing the application form  , I submitted related documents in the embassy.

            I wanted to check the visa through same link, where I have no update, only "application received". What do you think, Why I have no update? Do you think that, the "Check Visa" option is only for those who are applying in Brazil, or people who submitted applications through embassy must also get an update from this link?

                         Thank you

No update because it's Pakistan and it is about 20 times more difficult for citizens of Pakistan, Bangladesh and India to obtain any category of visa for Brazil. The government here has set much heavier requirements than for other countries.

Have you been called in for a personal interview at the Consulado-Geral yet? If that hasn't taken place then you'll have to wait a bit yet.

Cheers,
James
expat.com Experts Team

Wouldn't it be just great if there was an app thats calculates your visa stay for you!!
  Just a thought 🤔
 
Merry christmas all@expat

Gary

Actually you can use www.timeanddate.com to count the days of your visa stay quite easily. Just make sure that you include the date of arrival and date of departure as FULL days in the calculation.

http://www.timeanddate.com/date/duration.html

Cheers,
James
expat.com Experts Team

Hello Mr. James,

I saw you are very helpful to people here in addressing their queries. I have a query of my own and would appreciate very much if you can help me with it.

I have overstayed my business visa which is of 90 days. I was here on a invitation of a brazil registered company and overstayed working for them but now they don't want me to continue working for them and want to pay the fine and make me leave the country but i want to stay is it possible that  i can overstay even after paying the fine?

For example: the Company will pay my fine and after that they will give me a ticket to leave the country but what if i just don't leave. And down the line in future i want to leave the country will it be a problem that i didn't left the first time even after paying the fine?

Hello money989,

No you wouldn't be able to stay in Brazil, since you receive the notification of the fine on departure and pay it either at that time or upon any eventual return.

If you simply stay in Brazil you would be unable to work legally and are subject to deportation proceedings should you be caught. Don't forget that Brazil is still very much a police state. EVERYONE in this country is required to carry ID at all times and present it to any police officer upon request, that's the law. Police demand ID from everyone (involved or not) when there is any kind of police occurence, so even if you're a passenger in a car they stop, a patron in a bar where they're called to attend about a fight, anything at all you would have to show your passport. At that point they are required to turn you over to the Federal Police if you are in an overstay situation.

Don't do it... you don't want to know what the inside of a Brazilian jail cell looks like.

Cheers,
James
expat.com Experts Team

Thanks for the prompt reply.

so this is the case with my overstay right now too? If i get caught right now the same process will happen or its just after paying the fine?

Same either way, you get caught in an overstay (fine paid or not) you would be turned over to the Federal Police. They would officially notify you that you have a specific period of time to voluntarily leave Brazil (usually 8 days), at which time you would be subject to detention and eventual deportation if you failed to do so. Also, deportees are not permitted to return to Brazil in the future.

Cheers,
James
expat.com Experts Team

Thanks for your feedback.

ok so its a messy situation already.
Just need to clear one more thing as im already taking a risk and after paying the fine continue to take the risk and in future decides to leave voluntarily and again pay the fine will they accept it and let me leave peacefully or arrest me when ill go to pay the fine as i didn't left earlier even after paying the fine?

Hello James,

like so many others, I'm not exactly sure if I understood all this correctly, so I'd kindly ask you to confirm if I did or correct me if I didn't. My case is as follows:

1) I'm German, so I get my tourist visa through the VWP on arrival.
2) I first entered Sept 15th 2010, extended this once for another 90 day and left March 1st 2011.
3) I then reentered May 15th 2012 as a tourist and haven't left since. Not proud of this, but it is as it is. I'm now leaving to attend a marriage back home and was wondering, when I am allowed to re-enter on a tourist visa.

The way I understand it, my rolling year always begins on September 15th. Since days I overstayed aren't counted, the next time I come back, the system actually doesn't find any days I stayed legally in Brazil during the last 180days, Therefore under the assumption that I paid my overstay fine before leaving, PF would allow me a new 90days whenever I return without having to stay outside of Brazil for 3-12 months? Is that correct?

Furthermore I'd like to ask you a question about the calculation because there is still at least one thing that confuses me:
The way I understand it, once you try to enter Brazil (as a German citizen under the VWP), the system looks up how many days you legally stayed in the country during the last 180 days.
Lets assume I came back on May 1st, that would allow me stay legally for 90 days, so I'd have to leave July 29th?
So if I left July 29th, what would happen if I tried to come back September 15th or 16th? The system would see, that I already used up my 90 days for the last 180day timeframe. But my new rolling year starts September 15th 2016. So does the "no more than 90 days in a 180day period" limitation trump my new rolling year? Or does the new rolling year actually give me the "permission" to enter for a new 90days because the system only goes back to September 15th, the start of my rolling year, and calculates the days I accumulated during my rolling year while ignoring days accumulated in the rolling year before but within the last 180 day timeframe?

English isn't my 1st language, so I hope you understand my problem and thanks for all the advice and help you hand out here

I will try and keep it as simple as possible since English is not your first language. So here goes...

1.  Your calculations will be made with Sept. 15 being the start of your year. From there 90 days in, 90 days out, 90 days in, 90 days out

2.  Technically you should not qualify for extensions, but you appear to have been given one anyway.

3.  Overstay days are not counted in calculation since they are subject to a fine.

So you understand it correctly, you would be entitled to re-enter Brazil on Sept. 15, 2016 for 90 days.

You may or may not get an extension, in order to have your 180 days consecutive because:

While the VWP Agreement Text expressly states that extension is not given under the Agreement, it states later in the text that a VWP nation MAY grant an extension if they choose to do so. Some Policia Federal Agents will grant one and others won't so for you that would always be just a roll of the dice.

Cheers,
James
expat.com Experts Team

Thanks for your response.

Just to clear this up: The extension I got was back in 2011, when all EU citizens were still allowed to do so under the old guidelines. After the changes my request was denied...

Just to make sure I did get this right: Since my rolling year begins Sept. 15th, I will always get 90days on arrival on Sept. 15th, even if I had been in Brazil on a tourist visa in June/July/August and e.g. only had left for the two first weeks of September? Since it would be a new "fresh" rolling year, the "no more than 90 days per 180 days" part wouldn't matter because they would look past Sept. 15th for their calculations?

Hi  James. Have just returned from Brazil after 3 years. (Return date into Uk 3 june16).I overstayed my visa and was handed a multa by the Polícia Federal on departure which was all expected. The form stated that I must pay the multa but June 22nd 2016. When I questioned him he said if I don't pay by this date I cannot ever reenter Brazil. Can you confirm that there is now a time limit by which the multa has to be payed?

Just to give you a bit of background, I have a 3 year old daughter to my Brazilian partner. She was born in the UK and I took her to Brazil to join her father when she was 4 months old, with the intention of registering her and therefore achieving residency. (Father was not at birth therefore not on Uk BIrth Certificate). When we tried  to register him as father in Brazil we were told she would have to be registered as Brazilian at the Consulate in London!! I didn't want to separate from her father again and wasnt in the financial position to return, so we overstayed.
In terms of registering her at Brazilian Consulate I couldn't find any clear  information on what documents I would need from her father and whether docs need translating. have returned home with a copy of his passport and Cpf (not certified by anyone).Went to Brazil with a document from the Registry Office in Scotland Declaring Parentage for a Justice of the Peace or equivalent person to sign, for him to appear on Uk Birth Certificate, but no one wanted to touch it. So the father is not registered in either country. Exhausting and frustrating. Do you have any information on this?

Sorry but James is no longer with us, he passed a few months ago.

I'm no expert on your issue but I think the birth certificate is the first step. The father needs to go with you to fix it in the UK. Then go to embassy or consulate in the UK afterwards to register kid. Then return to Brazil and get permanent residency by being parent of Brazilian child.

It took me 5 weeks to become a permanent resident with my kids. 5 weeks because I was waiting for the appointment. My passport was stamped permanent that day with RNE. I still need to return to get the ID cards...been dragging my feet.

I would definitely pay the money as soon as possible. If not you could risk not being able to enter Brazil again.

Good luck

Thank you Craig, will pay it this month and thanks for advice on registering my daughter. Much appreciated..

I am sorry, I know the answer is right in this message, but I get overly confused with this process. So, I am here in Brazil and have overstayed my visa. I originally entered Brazil on April 20th, 2017, and i need to go back to the USA for only 2 days. it is now 02/04/2018, will i be required to only pay the re-entry fee and be admitted to enter brazil again? or will I be requires to stay out of Brazil for longer that 6-12 months? please reply ASAP, as i need to leave for the USA on March 1, 2018

With the best intentions in the world, I don't think anyone here can give you the authoritative, unambiguous answers that you need.
In your position, I would sit down with a Brazilian friend and plan out the exact questions you'd like to ask the Federal Police, with the possible follow-ups -- a real script.  When you have that ready, I'd have your friend call the Federal Police, and ask the questions, "for a friend".  It may be different in other places, but here in Manaus, we've found the Federal Police quite willing to provide information over the phone, especially to other Brazilians.
Good luck -- all the best!

Colbym donovan

You are only allowed a total of 180 days in a running year. So you will have to stay out atleast that long before you can accumulate more days. You are also going to have to pay a fine of R$100 per each day of overstay.

Jim

That is the confusing part about the fine as well. The Federal police site for Brazil states that the fine is only R$8.50 per day overstayed. Can I ask where you got the information of R$100 per day? As well as the length of time I will be required to stay out of Brazil.

The fine increased in November 2017. You can find it on pf.gov.br  The site you found it on is probably not updated.


Jim

Hi,

I have a question.

I overstayed my stay back between 2009-10 of roughly 30 days as i entered in european waiver...i havent been back to Brazil since that time and were stamped my passport with the fine but it remained unpaid so far.

I am planning on returning soon, and i was wondering what to expect ?

Best,

Alex

Well you are before the current new law of R$100 a day. It was R$8 a day back then (R$240). Arrive during the week when airport banks are open in case they ask you to pay. I would venture to guess it has been forgotten about and you will enter with no problems.

the thing is that my flight arrive saturday morning ...not sur about the bank opening either way..

true, i have a new passport but no clue how efficient they are with retrieving infos...should nt be possible to pay a fine onlinein 2018 ...grrrrr

or may be i dont need a bank to be opened and preview the cash in reais at arrival ?

Payment for all fines is to be made directly to the bank.  It would be ideal if you can move your flight to have an arrival either on Friday morning or else on Monday during business hours

In principle, I'm with Craig and Stan on this:  try to arrive during banking hours, just in case.  The Federal Police will NOT accept payment directly.
If that's impossible or prohibitively expensive though, don't lose any sleep over it.  The Federal Police changed their computer systems last year, the new systems aren't compatible with the old ones, and porting records as old as yours was almost certainly not a priority.   You have a new passport, so that won't rat you out.  Chances are, you'll be ok.

Hi all, quick question here (I'm from the US and also have an Italian passport). Backstory: In 2014 I entered Brazil with my US passport and overstayed my tourist visa by 5 months, ended up getting the 828R fine, was told I could either pay it now or when I come back (and that I couldn't come back for 6 months!). I was working (un-paid) on an art project and needed to be back in less than 6 months.

I ended up coming back 2 months later on the Italian passport, thinking I'd have no problem getting another full 90 days. Turns out the passports are connected; they swiped my Italian one and the picture from my US passport popped up in their system. Technically they should not have let me in, according to what they previously told me. Well, they did let me in but instead of giving me 90 days, they gave me 30 days. And I ended up overstaying that 30 day visa by 1 year. The crazy part is when I left after that 1 year, the officer didn't say anything, just stamped my Italian passport and let me go scot-free (either he didn't notice or he just didn't want to deal with it).

Then 1 year later I had to return to Brazil again. I was terrified to use the Italian passport in case they'd notice I overstayed by 1 year and wasn't penalized in any way. I was able to get a work visa (in my US passport) from a friend who has a Brazilian company and ended up getting in/leaving Brazil with no problem whatsoever.

I'm going back to Brazil in 2 weeks (I definitely won't be overstaying this time).. My question is: can anything bad happen if I enter with my Italian passport and they notice I overstayed by 1 year (3 years ago) or is it a safer bet to use my US passport? The reason I ask is because I just renewed my US passport so I'd have to get (and pay) for a new tourist visa, which I'd rather not do unless absolutely necessary. Thanks for all comments and suggestions.