Indonesian, Malaysian language, Networking, Joint Ventures,

Thank you for your introduction. It is very interesting to read. When will you be arriving in Indonesia and which part do you plan on moving to?

Hey Saint Jean,

Thanks for the reply

...I was in Bali previously and liked it very much...I was just checking the scene out and enjoying the island....amazing....met lots of people from Jakarta and other places....

I  don't yet  have a fixed date to go back, I would like to alternate exploring long stays in Indonesia with living in  UK, including cities and small villages on islands too

Definitely would like to explore about how to get an artist visa to sing in clubs, restaurants etc....probably just need to contact agents...

Anyway, Terima Kasih, sampai jumpa lagiiiiii

On a related note. For a long time, I have subscribed to Simon Black's musings. I wish to share the following with ALL the esteemed readership of Expat.com. The reason I wish to do so is that in these times of mass population migration, one should not lose sight of the original reason that people decide to leave their homeland is to seek better opportunities for themselves and their families.

It would be of great benefit to Indonesia, both as a country and its population, if it would be more like Chile.

Read on:


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Victoria, Chile
September 22, 2015

About ten days ago, I had the pleasure of going through final procedures to obtain my permanent residency permit here in Chile.

Sitting in the waiting lounge of the Civil Registry office in downtown Santiago, I found myself struck by the mix of people.

Many of them were from Venezuela, people who are fleeing extreme hyperinflation and food shortages back home. They're coming here in search of a better life.

It's sort of a modern day version of the Irish Potato Famine.

Back in the mid 1800s, Ireland was going through one of the worst famines in its history.

Between a plant disease that wiped out their food supply, and short-sighted government policies that only made things worse, millions of Irish were left starving and homeless.

The smart ones escaped to the Land of Opportunity: the United States.

It wasn't an easy journey back then. One in five died from disease or malnutrition during the voyage to America.

And once they landed life didn't get much easier.

There was no free ride, no handouts, no support… nothing. They were entirely on their own, left to work hard and take risks in order to move up in the world.

But that was then.

Today the US no longer lifts its lamp beside the golden door, as inscribed at the foot of the Statue of Liberty.

But other countries around the world like Panama, Singapore, and Chile, have displaced America to become more welcoming to any foreigner willing to work hard.

As I've written before, Chile is one of the easiest places in the world for foreigners to obtain legal residency with full rights to live, work, invest, and start a business.

(And after five years of residence, you're eligible to become a Chilean citizen and obtain one of the most valuable passports in the world.)

The cost of starting a business here can be as little as around $20. And with a new business, the first 25 employees you have can ALL be foreign.

There's no special hoops to jump through; in fact, I've done this with our entire team down here in Chile, obtaining legal work visas for people from places like Slovenia, Thailand, Lithuania, Ukraine, New Zealand, Canada, Argentina, the Philippines, and more, all with just a single page work contract.

As a business manager, it's amazing to be able to hire anyone I want from all over the world, instead of being constrained by what's available in the local labor market.

This is an extremely rare benefit to business, especially as more and more countries erect huge barriers to entry.

Much of the reason why Chile remains so open is because it's difficult for foreigners to freeload.

In Chile, you have the right to enter and work. And that's about it. No one is going to take care of you. You've got work hard and succeed on your own.

All they're offering is opportunity, which comes at no cost to anybody.

And what the country gets as a result are motivated people from around the world eager to put their energy towards being productive.

This to me is one of the strongest indicators of the country's future potential: looking at how a country treats hard-working people (including its own citizens) tells me a lot about where that country is going.
Until tomorrow,
Signature
Simon Black
Founder, SovereignMan.com

That was a good read…and thanks for posting it, but what it lacks is the perspective from a Chilean point of view, or, in other words, what do “native” Chilean folks think about this?

And of course you are absolutely right about the current mass migration of people on this planet going on right now…the reasons being various of course, but not seen since the years of WWII. 

From where I sit, the destiny and future of any country should only be determined by its populous.  In a democratic county, that determination is hopefully expressed by way of voting and otherwise free expression of the “will of the people.”

If a country like Indonesia finds its citizens to largely be more concerned about maintaining its historical definition and make up of cultural identity, then it should be free to operate in exactly that manner…including restriction of foreign intervention and immigration.  This of course goes to the heart of Sovereign rights of any nation. 

Indonesia does not need an open border.  Moreover, Indonesia does not require foreign workers to develop its economy or advance the way of life for its people.  In reality, one would be very hard pressed to name any country on this planet which is more capable of sustaining itself, even if completely isolated, than Indonesia. 

This is proven fact because at no time since its Independence has there been a point where foreign workers represented more than a tiny fraction of its overall population.  Of course there are benefits to some inclusion of foreign expertise that Indonesia has, and will undoubtedly continue to enjoy, viz the harvesting of natural resources such as oil, gas, minerals and precious metals. 

It's a delicate balancing act going on here in Indonesia.  How much foreign influence is too much and therefore detrimental to maintain local culture, and how damaging is too little foreign influence on the growth of this great country?

Anyone familiar with this country is aware of one consistent philosophy or characteristic of its people…they aren't in any rush.  While so many western cultures seem to find it impossible to keep abreast of the radical changes occurring within, and by quick time, Indonesians are far more apt to sit back, contemplate, consider, weigh the pros and cons, and move on slowly. 

Nationalism is not really an important issue here.  On the contrary, what is important here are the ancestral roots by way every Indonesian, regardless of their religion, defines themselves.  No matter where in this vast archipelago one goes, the unique bond that virtually all Indonesians share is through their ancestors.  This unique bond, to their past, and to their roots, most defines their present and the path they most likely will take in their future.  But, more important than that reality is the fact that Indonesians understand this, and they hold this as the most defining aspect of their cultures now unified under one flag. 

In the end, when all is said and done, Indonesia needs the rest of the world far less than the rest of the world needs Indonesia. 

So, good luck Chile, but please understand…we are not Chile, nor would we benefit from being more like you.

Thanks for the considered reply, Ubudian.

You have provided a well though out and interesting insight into what you perceive to be the 'Indonesian' character in as far as would one could consider the commonality of such disparate peoples under one flag.

Will really have to think about an appropriate response to the points you have raised.

Great points, Indostocks.  I lived in Indonesia for a year as an expat.  My experience was that the govt makes it very hard for foreigners to reside in and contribute to Indonesian society.  Contrast with Chile, which welcomes productive foreigners with open arms.  Ubudian, govt does not necessarily reflect the views of the native people.  Indo people were most welcoming and cordial in their acceptance; however, there are govt institutional provincial policies which discourage immigration of potentially valuable foreign business employers and professionals.

“Ubudian, govt does not necessarily reflect the views of the native people.”

As any American (including myself) is acutely aware, n'es pas?   

It's a delicate balancing act between preserving and protecting jobs for your people and also encouraging foreign investment.  As for knowing the will of the Indonesian people, trust me, there would be riots in the streets, the likes of which we haven't seen here since 1998 if the people thought that their jobs were going to foreigners.

Don't confuse the cordiality and wonderful nature of the Indonesian people with a willingness to hand over their jobs, businesses, land, and culture to foreigners. 

As I said, Indonesia is not Chile.   

Ubudian wrote:

“Ubudian, govt does not necessarily reflect the views of the native people.”


"As any American (including myself) is acutely aware, n'es pas?"

Bien sur.    

"It's a delicate balancing act between preserving and protecting jobs for your people and also encouraging foreign investment."

Preserving and protecting jobs for Indonesian people is fine; Chile does that for locals.  Encouraging foreign investment is about creating a friendly environment for developing companies and entrepreneurs.

"As for knowing the will of the Indonesian people, trust me, there would be riots in the streets, the likes of which we haven't seen here since 1998 if the people thought that their jobs were going to foreigners."

New business is not about handing over existing jobs to foreigners.  In fact, new jobs should go to qualified workers, regardless of their origin.

Don't confuse the cordiality and wonderful nature of the Indonesian people with a willingness to hand over their jobs, businesses, land, and culture to foreigners.

Again, it's not about handing over native jobs or existing business to foreigners.  A business friendly govt encourages investment in land suitable for industry.  Immigrants are never going to steal Indo culture!  

"As I said, Indonesia is not Chile. 

"

Of course not.  But there's no contest in terms of business friendly policies.  Indonesian provincial govt does not help the Indonesian economy, nor its native workers.

“Indonesian provincial govt does not help the Indonesian economy, nor its native workers.”

What particular Province of Indonesia are you talking about?  Where were you an "expat for a year?"

The Province of Indonesia which I know best is Bali, and I can assure you that the Provincial government here has accomplished a great deal for the benefit of its people and in all areas…economic growth, improved infrastructure, medical care, education…you name it, it's far, far better than it was 17 years ago when I moved here.

Moreover, and again regarding Bali in particular, I can't possibly imagine more foreign investment…new hotels, new theme parks, and new businesses across the board that has occurred here in Bali in the last 17 years.  Many would argue that it's too much…and I'm one of those who would argue precisely that.

“Immigrants are never going to steal Indo culture!”

You mean, nothing like what happened to the native American culture in the US could happen here?  Or nothing like what happened to the native Hawaiian culture could happen here?

Well, you're right actually, but the reason is because Indonesians won't let that happen.

Indonesia is not about to swing open its doors and welcome every Tom, Dick, Harry and Mary who wants to live here.  America was founded by immigrants, Indonesia was founded by Indonesians from every corner of this vast archipelago.  “Unity in Diversity” but thank you very much, we have quite enough diversity as it is.   

Just so you know, I'm "speaking to you" as an Indonesian...one who is fiercely protective of our way of life.  And believe me, I don't know any other Indonesian (Balinese or otherwise) who isn't thinking along the same lines as me.

Ubudian wrote:

“Indonesian provincial govt does not help the Indonesian economy, nor its native workers.”

What particular Province of Indonesia are you talking about?

From dictionary.com:  "a person of local or restricted interests or outlook."  Shortsighted, narrowminded.  Not picking on Indo govt, per sae.  Contrast with my personal experiences in SE Asia with govts of Singapore and Hong Kong.  And California, which also discourages new business through excessive regulations and taxes. 

Where were you an "expat for a year?"

I resided in Bogor and Yogyakarta, and dealt with bureaucrats in Jakarta.

The Province of Indonesia which I know best is Bali, and I can assure you that the Provincial government here has accomplished a great deal for the benefit of its people and in all areas…economic growth, improved infrastructure, medical care, education…you name it, it's far, far better than it was 17 years ago when I moved here.

See above definition of provincial.

Moreover, and again regarding Bali in particular, I can't possibly imagine more foreign investment…new hotels, new theme parks, and new businesses across the board that has occurred here in Bali in the last 17 years.  Many would argue that it's too much…and I'm one of those who would argue precisely that.

Misunderstanding.  I meant friendly to startup business and entrepreneurs: business innovation.  Not foreign capital inflows.  I agree about over development in Bali.