Anyone having 2nd thoughts?

Where I spend  a lot of my time is on the South Coast. A good part of the area is 2nd or 3rd world. San Juan is closer to 1st world so I think the effects will be more dramatic in San Juan area. Where our  farm is there is community water that costs $12 a month. about 375 homes are serviced. It runs from 9:00am until about 4:00pm. You fill your cisterns and collect rain water too.Some homes cannot afford to pay their bill so the rest of the community absorbs it. This does not involve a lot of bureaucracy just volunteers.  If I set up my own energy supply maybe I could convince the community to set up one for the community. I have lived in coup ravaged South America with terrorist and all. I have lived a couple of years without Electricity or potable water and I reflect on my experience as a very memorable time in a good way.  I really do not think The Island is going to turn in to an anarchistic version of the wild west. Human beings are capable of working together in difficult times. I do not have second thoughts but I follow the events surrounding this dilemma more closely with an open mind and being as practical as possible. Ponce has two large lakes that do not produce electricity but prevent floods. How people who make decisions can be so short sighted is beyond my comprehension but maybe this will be a wake up call to invest time and resources into sustainability and more independence from investing ones time, money, energy, and self directing decisions into archaic systems that maybe work for 1st world empires but fall short  for other types of collective thinking and planning. If what seems to work for me on my farm could also work for the community maybe this could extend to the town and each municipality could be self determining with a whole new paradigm of sustainability. There are many reasons why I would not move to Puerto Rico but I am sharing the reasons why I would. The internet makes living on an island more feasible and having access to the world market via the internet also opens many opportunities. Without government intrusion and basic necessities I think Puerto Rico has as much if not more opportunities than Detroit does, where I lived part of my life.

I've been here almost 10 years... I'm free to leave, as is anyone, but here I remain... no second thoughts, unless you count my considering going back to dish... I'm having second thoughts about that.

Nope, I am still moving to the island. Crime is mostly in Metro area, gang related like in every major metropolitan area. Have them look at Miami, Baltimore, Chicago, Colorado, Massachusetts  and many other states. The left over crime is crime of opportunity, run by and steal a wallet, somebody walking alone at night in a fairly deserted area, which happens everywhere. Newspapers exaggerate, that need people to buy the paper.

But the key thing is do you need a job? If so, PR may not be for you. There is little work for the locals, which makes it harder for non-Spanish speaking people to get a job.

Moving anywhere is a very personal decision, all we can tell you is how we feel, you have to make your own decision.

As to English, a LOT of people speak it here, they may or may be afraid to speak it because they do not have the practice, but a lot of them speak it. We just went to several stores and supermarket, they heard my wife and I speaking English and all interactions at the store were in English because they wanted the customer to feel welcome.

If you are old enough and self-sufficient you should consider following your dream.

You nailed it on the head, ReyP. Do you need a job based in PR in order to live in PR? If yes, then it is not the place for you. Trying anyway will just lead to your ruin.

Heck no! This is my home.

Yes, I will need a job, but as luck will have it, the government contractor I work for just put in a proposal to PR.  If that doesn't work, the company also has telework positions.  I just put in an application in for a telework position so fingers crossed!  I am not bilingual, I would say I am at an Intermediate level.  When I lived there I spoke really good Spanish but after being in the states so long, I pretty much lost it.  It shouldn't be hard to pick it up again.  I just bought Rosetta Stone so I can start learning again.  I just can't wait to go back home!

Not really...if I do in the future I'll just move. If you want to try it there's really no good reason not to give it a try. You'll never know unless you do.

So true Sugarbird!

Jolo84 wrote:

Yes, I will need a job, but as luck will have it, the government contractor I work for just put in a proposal to PR.  If that doesn't work, the company also has telework positions.  I just put in an application in for a telework position so fingers crossed!  I am not bilingual, I would say I am at an Intermediate level.  When I lived there I spoke really good Spanish but after being in the states so long, I pretty much lost it.  It shouldn't be hard to pick it up again.  I just bought Rosetta Stone so I can start learning again.  I just can't wait to go back home!

If you can get them to accept the remote work and they get the contract you will do real good as you will be payed based on US standard salary for the mainland but you will be living in an island where most other people make much less.

You said you wanted to go back home, were you born in the island or your parents?

In my book young people should take the opportunity to travel and work in many countries and learn their culture before they settle down somewhere and grow some roots. The experience of other cultures will help you appreciate the best of each and make them your own.

If you can handle it, come on down, the price is right!

Sugarbird wrote:

Not really...if I do in the future I'll just move. If you want to try it there's really no good reason not to give it a try. You'll never know unless you do.

Exactly! It has taken me the last five years to get to that way of thinking, to be willing to give up my job and retire with my husband. It just seemed so overwhelmingly drastic, and yet a dream we have talked about for years... but there comes a time you just have to ask yourself, what's the downside -- if it doesn't work, it will lead to something else, but if you don't try, you'll never know.

All great responses!  Melendezki, life is too short and if you are able to retire early, what a great thing because you have your health and youth to still be able to enjoy life to the fullest.  We are retired now at ages 51 & 55...my husband retired a year ago.  We still have two daughters that are youngish and a bit dependent still (almost 20 & 21) so we are making our way to PR for longer stays each time.

Mrkpytn, I love your outlook on sustainability and I think you are spot on 

I'm bringing this thread back up because it's a continuing discussion for my husband and me.  We are such different personality types on many issues, but we do balance each other.  I'm a total Pollyanna, seeing the world through rose-colored glasses.  He is much more cautious, thoughtful and easily wary of the unknown.

Our original retirement relocation plan was to move to St. Thomas.  We know we want to stay under the US umbrella.  We have visited St. Thomas for years (20 for me), have friends there and are very familiar and comfortable with the island.  It does feel like home. 

But something in my head convinced me to check out Puerto Rico for many reasons.  For one thing, bang for buck, housing is better in Puerto Rico. Much nicer accommodations available for equal amount of dollars.  The availability of friendly communities rather than an isolated lifestyle.  Difficult to explain, but it feels the possibility of building up a support network is greater in the areas we've investigated in Puerto Rico.  This is important as you get older with no family around.  There are many more hills and stairs to climb in St.Thomas.  Old joints don't like to cooperate.  Less opportunity for "rock fever."  Each time I do a little research I found something somewhere on the island that makes me say, "Look, Honey, we've got to do this or go there."  That's exciting. 

My husband agrees with all these positive points favoring a move to Puerto Rico, yet each time he hears about the economy he becomes more concerned.  We are quite comfortable with a pension, a strong 401K and two healthy Social Security payments.  Medicare and a free secondary insurance are in place.  We don't need to look for work and are not very high maintenance.  So it's all good.  But he worries about the imposition of an income tax, about diminishment of services, etc.

We will be staying in Palmas del Mar for a month beginning August 15.  Our goal is to talk to as many folks as we can who may be in similar circumstances to see how they feel about the current economic situation and its impact on day to day life. 

All I know is, I have got to get out of Dodge, and it ain't gonna be to Florida!!!!!

Hey I started a thread but No one has replied. I am looking for advice on earth bag homes on the island. Basically anyone with farming and building experience  in the climate. Any suggestions as to where to look. My main concern is approval of building plans.
At this point anything would be helpful thankb you.
sincerely jess

jess mayak wrote:

Hey I started a thread but No one has replied. I am looking for advice on earth bag homes on the island. Basically anyone with farming and building experience  in the climate. Any suggestions as to where to look. My main concern is approval of building plans.
At this point anything would be helpful thankb you.
sincerely jess

I saw your tread and went to some links that showed several plans and thought they were interesting. But I am not aware of any houses that were build this way in PR. I loved the Hobbit house they had there for example.
However not being familiar with it I did not wanted to comment just to comment so I stated away since you needed solid advice and I had none to give.
I am concerned that the walls and floors may allow water to enter and or cause Mold build up. But I have no idea what I am talking about.

Don't have any knowledge in this area.  The question that pops into my head is whether this is adaptable to a tropical climate.  The bugs here can be very invasive, even in a cement house.   Also, air flow through the house is what keeps it bearable in the year-round heat.  It sounds like you will be a pioneer and can then share your hands-on knowledge to others who will follow.  Keep us updated with your progress.

All your points are valid including a very rich music and art scene in PR which you will not get in many other places... Including FL!
Season Orchestra seat subscription to the Sinfonica for Under $400!?with world class performances week after week?
For all the bumps and worts, PR is the place to be.

just limin wrote:

I'm bringing this thread back up because it's a continuing discussion for my husband and me.  We are such different personality types on many issues, but we do balance each other.  I'm a total Pollyanna, seeing the world through rose-colored glasses.  He is much more cautious, thoughtful and easily wary of the unknown.

Our original retirement relocation plan was to move to St. Thomas.  We know we want to stay under the US umbrella.  We have visited St. Thomas for years (20 for me), have friends there and are very familiar and comfortable with the island.  It does feel like home. 

But something in my head convinced me to check out Puerto Rico for many reasons.  For one thing, bang for buck, housing is better in Puerto Rico. Much nicer accommodations available for equal amount of dollars.  The availability of friendly communities rather than an isolated lifestyle.  Difficult to explain, but it feels the possibility of building up a support network is greater in the areas we've investigated in Puerto Rico.  This is important as you get older with no family around.  There are many more hills and stairs to climb in St.Thomas.  Old joints don't like to cooperate.  Less opportunity for "rock fever."  Each time I do a little research I found something somewhere on the island that makes me say, "Look, Honey, we've got to do this or go there."  That's exciting. 

My husband agrees with all these positive points favoring a move to Puerto Rico, yet each time he hears about the economy he becomes more concerned.  We are quite comfortable with a pension, a strong 401K and two healthy Social Security payments.  Medicare and a free secondary insurance are in place.  We don't need to look for work and are not very high maintenance.  So it's all good.  But he worries about the imposition of an income tax, about diminishment of services, etc.

We will be staying in Palmas del Mar for a month beginning August 15.  Our goal is to talk to as many folks as we can who may be in similar circumstances to see how they feel about the current economic situation and its impact on day to day life. 

All I know is, I have got to get out of Dodge, and it ain't gonna be to Florida!!!!!

There is certainly the possibility of reduction in services, and I expect that there will be some. The key is how smart are they going to be in reducing the government size. There is a need to reduce the government and increase productivity, however PR is not well known for productivity levels, so as government size reduction occur, lines will get longer.
As a retired person living currently in the US mainland, you describe your situation as "Comfortable", while some things are more expensive in the island others are lower so I do not see the changes as affecting you much, not even the taxes unless you plan to buy a large Yacht or a luxury car. High value items will get hit the most when it comes to taxes, if you are frugal you will do very well.
As to taxes on your income, taxes will be based mainly on what you get out off your income sources, so the less you need to get out of your 401k for example the less taxes you have to pay. Here is my advice ..... Expend the least you can the first year to minimize state taxes in the state where you are currently, once you are a resident in PR rules are different and you will not be paying taxes to some mainland state. If you can live on 40-50K a year you will do well tax wise, if you can do it on less even better, you should be able to live on 20K since it is just 2 of you but I can not tell, do a budget.
Your principal home in PR is unlikely to pay taxes unless it is worth a lot. Check with a CPA, I can send you the info for a good one in PR.
Thanks
PS. One item of caution ..... Some very centralized communities with gated areas, golf courses, etc, are being heavily affected by unemployment issues and property values are falling heavily, a lot of those areas have some form of community monthly payments that will likely increase as more homes default on their mortgages since the pools, schools, golf courses, etc are fairly much fixed costs. So those fees may increase substantially.
Let us know if you have other questions.

Absolutely not. I was totally surprised by the fact that I just felt right at home here. I actually had many worries- if I woudn't get used to it, miss my grandkids, etc. but hey I have adjusted.

We have been here for a little over a year and at this time, I have no plans to go back to the cold and snow. We are both retired from NY and the thing that I miss most(besides my grandkids are some NY foods like hot dogs in the "dirty water", hot pretzels from the street vendors, cheese danishes, 7-11 coffee and buttered rolls. I can always get on a plane to get any of these, but I am here to stay.


Tonie

Jolo84 wrote:

My parents and friends think I'm crazy for still wanting to move to the Caribbean after all that's going on with the  economy. The way I see it, the way the US is going with all the shootings, threats, kidnappings, etc, we are not safe anywhere. Out of curiosity is anyone having 2nd thoughts about  moving to PR?

By the way, my wife family is very concern about the poverty in PR and the fact that they know little to nothing about the island. My own family in PR think I am crazy to come to the island due to the crime. But to tell you the truth, I have little concern, it is in my bones, I am coming HOME where I really belong. when the times comes (in another 250 years) I will be buried in the family plot at "El Mango".

Puerto Rico in many ways feel like another country and people do feel it is another country, but it is part of the US, so enjoy living in a Hawaii like environment before it became super expensive.

Thank you. These homes are built on a concrete foundation with large aggregate like a moot around the base to carry away water. The thermal berm created is just as efficient as concrete. In fact think of it as a concrete home once completed stucco exterior and all. Doing research on building codes and who to talk to down there is my issue.  For example in Philly this would need an exemption clause because there is no firewall in the traditional way.  Dirt does not burn so it is a firewall but you would have to get that paperwork approved.  But thank you for your thoughts. They were helpful. Keep ya posted

Four years here and loving. However, I disagree with some of the non-spanish speakers on this listserv. If you are moving to a country (any country, the mainland US included), you should take time to learn the language. How can you love living in a community with whom you cannot communicate?  That is pure laziness. To truly enjoy Puerto Rico, you simply have to learn Spanish. Most of the island does not speak English, and when you visit the mountains or the small coastal towns, good luck finding anyone who can muster more than a few words of English. Certainly they are not going to be your best buddies. You will be missing out on all the "secrets"  of the island, the little traditions and nuances that gringos have little time for. I met a girl in Condado who learned Spanish fluently in less than a year. Hardworking New Zealander. She is still here too. But she worked hard for that prize. As far as the rest, crime,etc., it is no different than the mainland. The perceptions up north tend to magnify the bad and minimize the good since most Americans and most news outlets are monolingual. It feels alien therefore it must be dangerous. Nearly all you hear in the North is a product of provincial attitudes and monolingualism. We don't hear about Detroit or Flint Michigan and automatically think "danger", for example. If you are going to do this, prepare to make the effort to actually become Puerto Rican or you will always live behind bars in a gated English community...something you could do in Lauderdale.

I think learning the language and culture is the way to go, one has to integrate into the population to fully enjoy what the island has in store. Isolation does not provide the same level of happiness or confort. Expecting that Puerto Rican will learn English or use what little they know in order to interact with you will lead to great disappointment and rejection. The language of the Island is Spanish, English is learned as a secondary language and used infrequently in other than tourist areas.

People say that the US is the great melting pot, and that may be true, but ......... it seems like somebody forgot to stir the pot. In places like NY you have communities of Cuban, Jews, Italians, Irish, African American, etc. If we stir the pot, we all live together and learn from each other instead of hating each other.

Same needs to happen when people arrive in the island, they need to interact and live as one.
Just my opinion,
Rey

labochinchosa & Rey, great posts and I have to agree.  People need to learn the language to fully integrate and learn and appreciate the culture.  I need to get my butt in gear and start learning!

Per MRK:  There are many reasons why I would not move to Puerto Rico but I am sharing the reasons why I would.

I'd be interested in hearing the reasons why you would not.  Not looking to be talked out of anything, just want to weigh all factors carefully.  It does appear to me from your many posts that you are extemely self-sustaining re utilities, among other things.  Reading between the lines you seem to suggest that one had better have a lot of know-how in that department if one is looking for higher quality-of life.  But again, you appear highly versed in the hard-core realities of living on the island and I would welcome your insights re these realities if one is considering a move to PR.  Thank you!

IMHO one does not have to be "extremely self sustaining" in order to successfully live in PR. There are at least two types of "hard-core realities". First is the type that are common, that is most everyone will experience them. An example the quality and availability of good medical care. The second type is specific to the individual, what is a negative reality for you? For example I am vegan and being vegan in PR is very hard compared the States.

If you search through the threads here (if you haven't already) you will glean much of what you want to know.