Trouble at t'mill

Jeff, before blaming Indonesian workers in such a despising way, I suggest you to think about the last 100 years of Indonesian history with the struggle of its people against Dutch colonialisation for its independence, the Japanese occupation and then the 32 tragical murderous military dictatorship years of Suharto backed by the USA and the UK, like they did for Pinochet or Videla.
During those dark times every citizen was mind-controlled with threats of repression, arrests, torture, killings and disappearings, and also through propaganda fascist history curiculum in education to justify the 1965 genocide of at least half a million citizens,
So those past events are still leaving a deep nationalistic print in people's mind, including the younger generations who still lack real open-minded education.
Moreover there are no real left-wing political parties to help them efficiently as we do in the West.
But please do not blame them for protesting, demonstrating and defending their workers rights as everyday life is a matter of survival for them with absolutely low wages, unequal access to health, education and decent housing.

Dont forget the Japanese is world war 2, they can't have helped.

I think MF24 raises some very relevant points. I think when the Japanese surrendered and the Dutch tried to get back into Indonesia, the British actually tried to help the Dutch. Fortunately most Indonesian's are forgiving. The British are lucky because teams like Manchester United and Chelsea have made England and the English very popular around the world.

Remaining off topic and this is for Mas Fred.

Where's the Spanish inquisition when you need them?

The basis of the British helping the Dutch take back its colony was for that simple reason. It was still under their laws and rule. The British being part of the allies were obliged to secure Indonesia through accepting the surrender of Japanese forces which they did, however due to the uprising and change in politics realised that could not control the country while waiting for the dutch to return so rearmed the Japanese to help police the islands. The British were reluctant to enter into another war or conflict although they did mainly due to a succession of incidents which eventually led to the British withdrawing and allowing the Dutch to take over.
One of the reasons the Dutch finally gave up Indonesia was due to the Americans demanding they did so and the threat of not help financially rebuild Holland through the dollar helped force the Dutch's hand. So  interestingly enough the Americans were hoping that they would turn to them rather than to the soviet block and China, which they ultimately did.
And the rest is history...

lukereg wrote:

Remaining off topic and this is for Mas Fred.

Where's the Spanish inquisition when you need them?

I didn't expect the Spanish inquisition.

"One of the reasons the Dutch finally gave up Indonesia was due to the Americans demanding they did so..."

YUP!  And that is well appreciated here to this day!   

Remember, Indonesia was the very first prior colony in all of Asia and SE Asia to declare its independence after the Japanese surrender.  After 350 years of Dutch colonization, it isn't so difficult to appreciate why America supported Indonesia in their declaration of independence.   

However, had the Dutch stayed here and fought the Japanese rather than running back to Holland, who knows if that American support would have been so vehement.

The Dutch were kicked out for a number of reasons, one being a seriously clever Indonesian president.

However, that doesn't really excuse unthinking nationalism, or expats who refuse to be part of the country they chose to work in.

I think Roy and I share about the same opinions regarding expats who want to change a country to suit themselves.

Thank you for this,
the Bugis and Melayu Asli hated the Dutch for what they did to the country and throughout Riau Lingga and Southern Malaysia, shared the same sentiments, and I always tell them (my children) and the Bugis descendants to read their history books.  It is all there.

It is not too difficult to master the Malay language or Bahasa Indonesia.  The difficulty is the slang words or colloquials used by the locals which is a mix of Javanese, Dutch, Sunda, Madura with Melayu Asli.  I feel trying to say in local expressions takes time as we grow to understand the culture and life here.  You would learn fast enough, you don't need a large vocabulary easier than Mandarin.

I say dont blame any one.. any one who knows all country history knows their country is not perfect, I my self sees everything now as act of power that ruins our life. Sometimes is just see how foreigner look at me differently and sound when i'm in corporate concall, sometimes I see that they think they know all about Indonesia and some think that Indonesia its not just Bali and Jakarta. Some says we cant help our self to build our region and some says differently. cant we help our self? then why expansion is needed? is it because of we need to sell something?. I my self comes from a small village nearby Yogjakarta, until now I still see people switch goods with their needs in the village market without money. its not about modernisation but its about do people wants to understands us how we live or not. if people want Indonesia to shut down, its easy. stop the market activities in Indonesia and see how our politician dies first LOL

My suspicion is that this is not really about the pot-bellied, swaggering Pondok Indah oilie type of expat but rather the groups of Chinese or Koreans who have been hired on to do low-level work that should go to Indonesians. We have had the same sort of labor / cultural issue back in western Canada. The Chinese want to invest in the BC mining sector. Fine. They want to bring in an army of 5000 Chinese miners and set up their own base of operations. Not so fine.

Obviously the Chinese workers will perform infinitely cheaper than unionized Canadian ones, won't mind ultra-dangerous conditions, injuries or deaths that never get reported, and will have no language or cultural issues. But still.

Now the Chinese and the Indonesians are discussing mega-projects here and the China side is floating the idea of bringing down ten million Chinese to man them. Ten million from China is not a big deal for them - they have over a billion. Here it would be politically and culturally dynamite, particularly in view of Indonesia's history.

Just when I thought I could anticipate shady issues in international business,  this one is pretty smooth.
You are aware that 2 weeks ago Pres. Widodo said that Indonesia really needs to repeal the Kitas  (foreigner green card)  this is amazingly well timed.

Leaves the average Indonesian guy in the dirt.
No good for the huge middle class.

Thanks for the insite

If the government says its OK and people are brought here to work legally and spend then their money and this thing actually gets built then who should complain? These people are elected into power by those that complain about them and if those that complain about them refuse to remove them from power why are they getting all concerned?

Easy enough to say they are stealing peoples jobs but maybe it would be more clearer to say that foreign workers are taking jobs others dont want to take, assuming that this is the case which currently can only be speculated.

Fourwilly, have you ever asked your father, mother, aunts, uncles, grandparents etc if they feel they are better off now than say 20 years ago?  That's a question I ask a lot, and so far, I haven't heard "no" from anyone 35 or older.