Getting married in Brazil, Permanent Visa and documents required

James wrote:

Now you have me totally confused. What is the error on our Birth Certificate, the birthplace, the date of birth or both??? You've now mentioned both.

My mistake.  Birthdate was a typo.  Birthplaces are mismatched between long form birth certificate and passport/visa, but the dates are fine.

I'm wondering if this is something the consulate can answer for me when I go to get it certified by them.

Also, do you know if the 180 days for your long form birth certificate is from the date on the certificate (the received date), or the date it's certified by the consulate.  I think certified is the right word for whatever the consulate has to do once I show them my Canadian long form birth certificate as part of the marriage process.

dan001 wrote:

James wrote:

Now you have me totally confused. What is the error on our Birth Certificate, the birthplace, the date of birth or both??? You've now mentioned both.

My mistake.  Birthdate was a typo.  Birthplaces are mismatched between long form birth certificate and passport/visa, but the dates are fine.

I'm wondering if this is something the consulate can answer for me when I go to get it certified by them.

Also, do you know if the 180 days for your long form birth certificate is from the date on the certificate (the received date), or the date it's certified by the consulate.  I think certified is the right word for whatever the consulate has to do once I show them my Canadian long form birth certificate as part of the marriage process.

The consulate won't be able to answer that question for you. Even if they did give you an answer, the cartorio can give you a different answer. It's all up to the cartorio and their answer is the only answer that matters. But I would suggest to get all discrepancies solved before you come to Brazil. The cartorio is very good at catching discrepancies and they won't budge, even on the smallest error.

For the second question, it's 180 days from the date on your certificate. Once your certificate is legalized at the consulate, there's no expiration date.

Chalk up another correct response for cupofjoe, Brazil's rising star and right hand man to the Brazil Expert. 

Which reminds me Joe, if you ever want to volunteer to be a second Brazil Expert, I'll push for it with Julien. You would really be an excellent addition to the Experts Team. Please think about it and let me know via PM.

Cheers,
James   Expat-blog Experts Team

Thanks

Ok, so the 180 day period is the amount of time I have to get the consulate to legalize the the birth certificate once the birth certificate is issued to me, and then once that's done, I the wedding date can be over 180 days from the day and everything will still be fine.  Did I understand that right?

Both my parents are deceased. My mother didn't have a middle name. On my Irish birth crrtificate, it has only my fathers first name. I am getting an Inscrição Consular from The Irish consulate and I mentioned this when I emailed my birth certificate. Still waiting for a response from them on that question. I know full parent names are important in Brazil. Should I just use my fathers first name as his middle name is not on my birth certificate? Thanks.

dan001 wrote:

Ok, so the 180 day period is the amount of time I have to get the consulate to legalize the the birth certificate once the birth certificate is issued to me, and then once that's done, I the wedding date can be over 180 days from the day and everything will still be fine.  Did I understand that right?

Yes, that's correct. Once legalized the document does not lose its validity.

Cheers,
James     Expat-blog Experts Team

sharkster1 wrote:

Both my parents are deceased. My mother didn't have a middle name. On my Irish birth crrtificate, it has only my fathers first name. I am getting an Inscrição Consular from The Irish consulate and I mentioned this when I emailed my birth certificate. Still waiting for a response from them on that question. I know full parent names are important in Brazil. Should I just use my fathers first name as his middle name is not on my birth certificate? Thanks.

No, just his first name and surname will be sufficient. It's not like you're a Brazilian with a name like José da Silva (like thousands of others) which would make the parents' full names of extreme importance.  They don't get us gringos mixed up very often because if WE don't have an unusual name, certainly one of our parents will.

Cheers,
James     Expat-blog Experts Team

Thanks!

I am really losing it. My cousin sent my birth cert from Ireland to Brazil with tracking and it disappeared. We reapplied and he just sent it again. I checked the tracking with Correios and my fiance said that it said because my cousin sent it reg mail, not express, it will be held up for 50 days before they ( brazil) decides to deliver it. I am running out of time. Will have to fly to Ireland and waste 3,000 euros. You ever hear of this?  Thanks

Now the cartorio is asking me for a cpf number even though i am from united states to get married. Didn't say anything about that before of course until he was filling out the forms not knowing what to put for CPF??????! No other Cartorio asked for this, seems ridiculous. How can i get a cpf? Is that even possible? Should i get a lawyer, would that help any to make the marrige process go through?

Hello MGR BRAZIL,

Cartório is wrong, you don't need a CPF in order to get married. That said, the Cartórios all over this blessed country act like they're a world unto themselves, they invent their own rules and change them whenever the whim strikes them. It's going to be easier for you to get your CPF than it will be to fight the idiots.

Go to the Banco do Brasil, Caixa Econômica Federal, Correios or directly to the Receita Federal with your passport and they'll issue you a CPF I think if you go anywhere but the Receita, that they send you there to finalize the process anyway because (another stupid thing) because you don't have a voters card, which you can't have because you're an expat, you have to go to the Receita to justify why you don't have one. Sorry, this is Brazil...... YOU CAN'T FIX STUPID.

It will take you all of 15 minutes (maybe even less) to get your CPF at the Receita Federal. Surprise, surprise.... it's the number they use to tax you, so it is the ONLY thing in this whole nation that isn't steeped in tons of red tape, hoops to jump through and senseless bureaucracy!!! Don't waste your precious time trying to convince the Cartório that they don't know what they're talking about, that is useless.

Cheers,
James    Expat-blog Experts Team

Wow. Thank you James, sigh

My son is looking to get married in Brazil November 20, 2015.  He lives in New Jersey and will be leaving October 1, 2015.  He was in Belo-Horizonte - Brazil in February 2015 until the beginning of June when he came back to New Jersey.  They had started the paperwork to get married back in June and had a wedding date scheduled but it was postponed.  Do they have to start the entire process again?  Will he be able to arrive in October 1 and get married November 20, 2015?   He already used up 90 day for his first tourist visa and got another extension but he only used two weeks of that extension and came home to decide if he wanted to take the big plunge.

Please give me advise.

thank you

Hello brdugga,

His fiancee should go back to the Cartório and arrange the new wedding date. The Cartório should have all the paperwork if the wedding was just postponed, he shouldn't have to start over again.

Just remember if he's used up 20 days of the extension he is only entitled to be in Brazil for 70 days, the marriage would need to take place within that timeframe. Once married, his visa status doesn't matter much. He will be in an irregular migratory situation, but if he carries a certified copy of the Marriage Certificate around with him, he can't be "invited" to leave the country. The Federal Police are also required to accept the permanency applications of anyone how is married to a Brazilian citizen, or who has a Brazilian child regardless of their visa status. These are the only two situations where that is done. That said, he really should apply for permanency as soon after the wedding as possible.

Cheers,
James     Expat-blog Experts Team

I also wanted to know which process is easier sending for his fiance for the 90 day fiance visa  then getting married in the states or him flying to brazil to go through the vigorous process of her obtaining her visa through rio de jainero once married which I hear takes about 6 ;months to a year.   His fiance said that she cannot come with the fiance visa because it's not allowed in the country right now.  Im confused because everyone tells me about the fiance visa for other countries.

Hello brdugga,

Well, I'm not really familiar with the intricacies of US visas, but I've not heard that certain categories of visas aren't available in certain countries. That is really something that you'd need to confirm with the US Consulate here in Brazil. If his fiancee is correct and for some strange reason the Consulate here doesn't issue K1 Visas then his only other option would be marrying here in Brazil.

I do know that if one enters the USA on a B!/B2 with the intention of marrying that is considered immigration fraud. Even though it is legal to marry on that visa, one must prove to USCIS that it was not their intention to marry when they entered the USA. It can result in a 5 to 10 year ban from entering the USA.

I'm not making any judgement of this young lady, since I don't know her at all. However, the idea that the K1 is not available here sounds rather strange to me. I really do think you should check it out. If it is actually available here I'd be concerned about why she thinks it isn't. How well does he really know this girl? Is there possibly some other reason that she just wouldn't be able to obtain a K1 Visa?

Cheers,
James     Expat-blog Experts Team

Hello Mr.James.
                         Does this case of immigration fraud (entering the country with the intention of marriage) also applies for the brazilian visa, when i am entering the country for the first time by airway.i have been to Brazil by ships twice and had spent around 3 months in total.but i do not possess any record of it with me.

Hello bala mohan,

No, it is perfectly legal to marry in Brazil when you enter on a VITUR Tourist Visa.

What was being discussed it that the practice is considered immigration fraud in the USA if you enter with a B1/B2 Visit Visa with the intention of marrying. There it is necessary to have a K1 Fiancee Visa.

No problems here in Brazil, so don't worry.

Cheers,
James     Expat-blog Experts Team

Many thanks Mr.James.
                                   you are really wonderful person.your discussions helping me a lot.

thank you for your response.  He knows the young lady for a year now.  She really wants to get married in Brazil with her family present.  My next question is my son would like to enter Brazil again. he ended up extending the visa at the agency policia federal (90 days). I wanted to know if we can get him a ticket. he didn't use the total days. he only used like 6 days of the extension given. Do they take that into consideration as he returns to the country???! i hope we wouldn't have to go through the process again or does he have to wait to travel to Brazil until next year?  How many times a year can one go to Brazi?

Hi again brdugga,

Regardless of the date on the extension, the Federal Police only count the days based on entry and exit stamps in the passport, so your son would be entitled to any balance remaining that would bring him up to his allowed total of 180 days in any "rolling" year.

Just two things to point out here, all of the documents for the marriage process should be ready on arrival in order to avoid delays at the Cartório that might run beyond the departure date on the visa stay. As you mentioned the paperwork is already in at the Cartório so I presume it would be just a matter of re-setting the wedding date. So I guess that's not going to be a problem.

The marriage process takes anywhere from 30 to 45 days because the Cartório must publish the Marriage Banns in the Diário Oficial da União - DOU (National Gazette) for 30 days and then permission to marry is granted. Once married his visa status really doesn't matter anymore since the Federal Police are obligated to accept the permanency application of anyone married to a Brazilian citizen (or who has a Brazilian child) whether their visa stay is expired or not. These are the ONLY two circumstances where that is true. He should however have all the documents for the permanency process ready before coming here and apply as soon as possible following the wedding.

He won't need a Certified Criminal Record Check, that has been replaced with a notarized Declaração de Não Condenação form that the Federal Police will provide him. When the time comes, if there are any further questions about the application for Permanência Definitiva com base em cônjuge brasileira I'll guide him through it as I always do for those who need my assistance.

Cheers,
James     Expat-blog Experts Team

Really , no more of those Police record checks....is that across the board
Those things are hard for me to get a hold of each time ...it takes 2 months for South African Police to issue it

The Certified Criminal Record Check has been replaced with the Declaração Sob Pena da Lei de Não Condenação, for anyone who is applying based on marriage to a Brazilian citizen, or who applies based on having a Brazilian child... when they have NO PREVIOUS CRIMINAL CONVICTIONS.

Anyone who does have a previous conviction or is presently charged with an offense cannot swear such a document without committing perjury. Those with convictions or charges still would need to apply for the Certified Criminal Record Check. They would also not be granted permanency immediately like is now done with those who don't have convictions. Their case would be forwarded to the Ministry of Justice and be processed just like under the OLD SYSTEM, which could take years.

NOTE: A Certified Criminal Record Check is still required for those who are applying for naturalization as a Brazilian citizen.

Cheers,
James      Expat-blog Experts Team

James

Just because I'm being a little slow. Which card exactly is the "Entry card"? Is that a card you get when you first go through customs coming into the country? Also as a U.S. citizen do you have an idea about getting a declaration of single marital status. Apparently the Dept of State does not issue them. Do you have a recommendation on fulfilling that requirement for marriage?

I may want to DM you about my situation.

Thank you in advance for your sage counsel.

The entry card is a document that you will be given onboard Brazil bound flights, to fill out before arrival. You will present it to the Federal Police agent when you pass through the immigrations checkpoint. Depending on the airline you may only get it once you arrive at the checkpoint. You are required to keep it safeguarded and return it to the Federal Police when you leave Brazil. It will look something like the one below.

Cheers,
James     Expat-blog Experts Team

Thanks James that's what I thought

Any thoughts about the Decleration that one is currently not married? Can the consulate in Rio certify something for me? Is that something I can get here in the US but not from the State Department?

Scratch the last James I found the answer after rescanning the thread.

But I know I'm going to have more questions later ;-)

Hello Mr.James.
                           Sir, i need your help.Now one more trouble comes to me.
                          As you may be aware my Brazilian girlfriend  whom im planning to get married.
She is a divorcee and now a single mother.Her Ex-husband has already got married to another woman.and more disturbingly neither her first marriage nor her divorce is registered anywhere in brazil.now for me to get married to her,what should i tell about her status to cartorio while applying for marriage?
    if i tell that she is single and if she produces a single status certificate,does it suffice.
    Please advice me with any issues which may arise due to this while my marriage to her?
your information to me is of high value and help sir,please can you help me deal with this?

Hello bala mohan,

It is quite probable that she was never actually married. It is quite common for Brazilian women to live with a man in a common law relationship. Unless she got married in a Cartório then according to the law she is still single, and thus free to marry.

If she was married, and subsequently divorced then both the marriage and divorce MUST be registered somewhere. I would be very concerned about this situation if I were you. You should ask her straight out if she was married in the Cartório. If she tells you that she wasn't then no problem. If she says that she was married in the Cartório then she can't re-marry unless she has either a Cartório divorce or a judicial divorce.

Cheers,
James        Expat-blog Experts Team

Hello Mr.James.
                       I have asked her directly.she confirmed me that she has not registered her marriage in any cartorio and so the Divorce too.
    If this is the the situation if she submits her single status certificate in cartorio,then she is legally free to get married .am i right?

You didn't ask her what I told you to ask her..... DID SHE EVER GET MARRIED IN THE CARTÓRIO? (not registered)

Ask her if she had a civil marriage? "Está casada no civil?"

If she has never had a civil marriage then there is nothing to divorce because she was never married. Only the expat spouse needs to submit a single certificate, not the Brazilian spouse.

In Brazil, for women, once they marry and change their name, they must apply for new documents like their RG (Registro Geral). Since here the Marriage Certificate supercedes a woman's Birth Certificate all of her new documents would reflect that because they will show the originating document as CC plus the number (Certidão de Casamento). If her RG originating document is CN plus a number then she never married. Ask her to tell you what is written on her RG for the "Documento de Origem" line. That way you'll be sure.

Cheers,
James

Hey James. I might be over thinking some of this but I'm trying to dot my i's and cross my t's in preparing. I have a few specific questions about the process.  So here we go

Does Declaration of Single status from US embassy need to be Translated officially and certified at the Cartorio?

For the Marriage, do all the forms need to be complete to ask PERMISSION to marry? or do they just need to be complete for the marriage date 30-60 days after applying for permission?

Where can I find the actual applications for the VIPER and CIE. I see the information for the process and requirements but I don't see an online or downloadable application form. Do you know the actual weblinks at http://www.dpf.gov.br/?

What is the exact process for registering for the RNE? Is that just done while at the PF appointment?

For VIPER visa/CIE - does the proof of address (utility bill) need to be in the name of the applicant or the Brazilian spouse?

Will they still issue the protocolo with the more abbreviated time to get the VIPER?
is the SINCRE still necessary for the work permit?

Hi Phil,

The Declaration of Single Status issued by the US Embassy/Consulate here in Brazil will probably be done up in Portuguese. Ask them "pretty please" and they'll probably do it in Portuguese. Like everything else, it will probably need to be notarized in the Cartório, but ask them first since you'll already be there anyway.

The DPF website has the form online at:  https://servicos.dpf.gov.br/sincreWeb/  but you will also be given a paper one when you arrive at the DPF Delegacy, which they'll ask you to fill out by hand.

At the lower right corner of the DPF main webpage you'll see listed under ESTRANGEIRO "Requerer Registro/Renovarção click on that and complete steps 1, 2 and 3.  Print everything off, pay the GRUs within 7 days of printing them and then go to the Superintendência Regional da Policia Federal in your city (or that has jurisdiction) at the date and time indicated on the appointment scheduled. Note: some don't actually have appointments so in that case just do everything and go there anyway, they'll fit you in.

Under the new procedures you do EVERYTHIING all at once, Petition permanency, register in the RNE and apply for the CIE (Cédula de Identidade Estrangeiro). The proof of address should be in your name, but if your spouse has changed her surname to yours they'll probably accept hers. They may accept it anyway since you've got to provide them with a Certified Copy of your Marriage Certificate.

If all the documents for permanency are present and complete then you are granted permanency immediately, your passport gets stamped "Registrado como permanente" and you get the protocol. The SINCRE used to be necessary for the CTPS under the old procedure because it took so long and you couldn't apply for the CTPS until you were registered. Now they will issue the CTPS based on the stamp in your passport, protocol and copy of your Marriage Certificate (take the original with you, they'll probably want to see it)

Cheers,
James    Expat-blog Experts Team

Hi
You don't apply for the CIE , it is part of the RNE process
RNE is a number you get registering as a Estrangeiro permanente (Permanent Foreigner)
and the CIE is the actual ID card that comes with the RNE no on it ...RNE no is like your ID number in Brazil

to register the RNE you need to book an appointment at the correct federal police which deals with estrangeiros
Pay 2 fees you get the bills to pay by registering on the PF site, take proof of payment with
take two 3 x 4 color photos
take  your passport with VIPER , Make a copy of the WHOLE passport to give them - cover to cover
the copy of the VISA REQUEST FORM - has a picture of you on it(my consulate overseas never gave this too me! had to courrier it)
Proof of address -they wern't too strict on this with me , my wife was with , I think she had her moms bill but you never know....
The APPOINTMENT BOOKING FORM - print from internet , they send it to your email or you can access it on the site with all your personal info on once you fill it out

I think that's it , but best check their website , you have to take everything they ask for
Also it's best if your wife comes with you and you have the marriage certificate too, it helps smooth things over , like address etc

I recieved my VIPER from a consul overseas then went to brazil , so I had to check in at the federal police within 30 days , if you getting the VIPER from inside brazil I think it's done all at the same time now, you get a piece of paper called a Protocol with your RNE no on it which acts as a temporary ID till your CIE card comes.....mine took just 2 weeks
You also going to get a paper form called a SINCRE that the protocol gets torn off from
It has more info on you and it's important  you need it to get a work document

The best advice I can give , having just done all of this is , be prepared to be told you have at least one thing missing you have to go chasing after , I thought I was super prepared , marched into the PF with everything , only to be told I had like 4 little things missing , they always find something .....same with all the other documents and the bank account.....it's like a real life puzzle video game in which you present the pieces only to be told you still need something else and you go scampering off again to find it....every so often you hit a road block like a government department strike or something

Steve,

You certainly do need to apply for the CIE, it's right there on the DPF website. It's now all done at the same time, but they really are separate steps for each and separate fees too.

Cheers,
James    Expat-blog Experts Team

Yes right I forgot the CIE is a separate payment ,thats the two payments I mentioned
The thing is it's confusing and by the time you leave it feels like it's been just one application , even though it is technicaly two at the same time

I was fortunate enough to have a Real PF Officer when I did mine. He had all of the paperwork organized and only asked for what was needed. It did seem like one process but it was several all at the same time.

Update
Good news - I have a wedding date from the Cartório Sat Sep 26 at 1220pm. Hooray!!!

Yesterday I went to the Cartório with Juliana and her mother and grandmother for witnesses to officially apply to get married. I'm glad I read this site because it is not for the faint hearted. I didn't sleep great and woke early so that never helps.
When Juliana and I were called we walked to the counter with all our documents and sat down. The woman looked stern ( chata) as Brazilians would say. She looked in my passport, saw that my current visit is over 90 days, closed my passport and said " Não pode casar" before we could explain that I got a prorrogação ( extension ) from Polícia Federal. We explained and showed her the stamp in my passport. She then said I needed to pay for a translator on my wedding day, which I knew. O said ok. When Juliana went to get our witnesses she asked me my profession and other questions which I answered in Portuguese.