Buying a property in Bali

Not sure but maybe you can find something in:

www.rumah123.com

HI, thanks, yes I did found something..i just want to know the ups and down of using a property management service for a property

Your ability to find a good manager for your investment property is going to be contingent on where in Bali your property is located.  Quite simply, the more remote your property is, the more challenging will be the task.

As a general “rule of thumb” for absentee landlords, your balance sheet will have far better chances for a decent profit if you invest only in the already highly developed areas of Bali, and that of course means southern Bali…Kuta, Legian, Seminyak, Kerobokan, Jimbaran, etc.  In those areas you'll find many “community” developments…clusters of villas all built by the same developer and very often sold to investors like yourself.  For a fee these developers will manage these properties for the absentee investors and handle all the requirements including staffing, rentals, advertising, etc.

Hi, Chaviola

regards from Bali

As you wondering to buy a property and give to the third party to manage and handle it for you, in my opinion is same like Ubudian above. usually more remote the properties from the airport ( commonly used to measured property's distance or location), more effort to find them.

for example in my Area ( Tabanan regency, more far away from Tanah lot )a med-end villa owner put the senior staff who had been working and have experience in hospitality more than 10 years, They give he/she to manage the guest/renter in the villa or properties. and the owner mostly finding the renter out there in their own country or out of Indonesia. beside the local promotion to reach a walk in renter. even the manager is residence in city area ( denpasar, seminyak, kuta, etc).

the reason why they use individual manager than a companies is in operational expenses i think. coz nominate the managers is cheaper then pointing a profesional managed by company. CMIIW

I will suggest that you buy property in Jakarta, investment wise in makes a hell lot more sense, property is never liquid.

You want location that you can sell when you need the case, Jakarta is a good place to buy property

You have to marry an indonesian to be able to buy a property here, that is as far as experience from friends, and maybe a solid prenup from a good notary is as important

http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2015 … pital.html

Jakarta is over priced and when I can afford it I will buy in Central Java not here.

kardus wrote:

I will suggest that you buy property in Jakarta, investment wise in makes a hell lot more sense, property is never liquid.

You want location that you can sell when you need the case, Jakarta is a good place to buy property

You have to marry an indonesian to be able to buy a property here, that is as far as experience from friends, and maybe a solid prenup from a good notary is as important

Wrong.
You can't buy land, or a house with land here unless you're Indonesian.
If you buy as a couple, you should have a prenup stating you have no title to any land you own as a couple.

hi Fred

thanks for the correction, your wife get to buy the property with your money is a much better explanation that I should put, cheerio

I have yet to meet anyone who owns property here in Bali who wished their property was in Jakarta instead.   

Hey lets not get it wrong, i am not saying tht Bali is less fun than Jkt, as a matter of fact is the opposite.

If u are looking to retire and u hv made ur millions thn Bali is a good place to live.

But if wht you are looking for is investment (assuming the marriage last u a life time) I hv to say tht Jkt is much better investment. I bought a house at pantain indah kapuk in 2011 at 1,7bill the house is now worth around 4.5bill. Recently i purchased apartment at brooklyn alam sutera, the building is not even finish yet but the price hv went up by 250million.

I can't even begin to tell you the number of folks I know, and they include both locals and foreigners, who have made a killing on land investments in Bali.  Personally I don't go for this sort of thing, as I am far more interested in seeing Balinese culture preserved, and not fall entirely victim to greed.

In my own village along the Ayung River northwest of Ubud, land has gone from 35 million an are to 500 million an are in just seven years, and that's the price for locals.

The irony here is wonderful, in that the average Balinese compound is around 50 are making them worth around 2 million or more US dollars.  But that's meaningless to them as they'd never sell their family compounds in a million years.   

So, the next time you're in Bali and see some old man with tattered clothes and a straw hat emerging from a rice field, the chances are pretty good he's a multi-millionaire.   

Ubudian wrote:

So, the next time you're in Bali and see some old man with tattered clothes and a straw hat emerging from a rice field, the chances are pretty good he's a multi-millionaire.   

Daft as that sounds, it's very possibly true in many cases.
The massive greed and stupidity that's driving land prices in Indonesia may well have created several millionaires out of rice farmers.
They could have a serious retirement but, as you said, they probably wouldn't care.

Hmm... Sounds very interesting, this Ayung River area, how close are they to the beach? Are there many people outside Bali building houses or villas there?
Is the price of land in Ubud still increasing or have it reach peak?

Fred, I dont think you can put stupidity together with greed when it comes to generating wealth. Otherwise you won't send your kids to school, I mean we do want our kids to achieve and perform in life, to make a killing wealth, all tht stuff make you proud as parent.
If your objective is for the children to spend wht they earn day to day and live a modest life, you wouldn't send them school, pay for their uni, you just teach them how to read and count, to make enough for them to survive daily.
So I dont agree that generating wealth is part of greed, how many people can you help if you have limited resources of your own?, how many people you can employ and witness their life grow in value if you are afraid of judgement that generating wealth be called greed by society.

kardus wrote:

Fred, I dont think you can put stupidity together with greed when it comes to generating wealth.

I didn't suggest they were from the same people, just working together to produce the massive increases.
If the greedy put the prices up to crazy levels, the stupid still buy, commonly taking out loans they can't afford to service.

It happens all over, until the crash comes - ask the Irish.

If you explain it that way, I completely agree.

Just to add to the whole crash, even before the first indication of crash will happen, you dont take out loan to purchase property as investment. When you are investing you use the money that you sit on, the money that you are losing to inflation annually because they are simply just sitting in the bank.

You lose more money putting it in a bank than investing it (as long as you are not dumb enough to place ur money in public scam like future exchange, or investment that you have only basic knowledge about)

You take out loan to expand your business, to increase growth, why? Because your business is a separated entity from you, whatever liability it has it won't influence your personal wealth, you take care of your private wealth as your safe keeping to start over when things go haywire. But you take loan into a healthy cash cow, dont take up loan for ur start up co tht may or may not produce.

You can take loan to purchase property not as investment but as your production cost, you do that when ur current rent equal or close to the monthly instalment of the property that you are purchasing.

The first signs are well behind us.
Lower growth and poor concrete sales suggest problems, but keeping an eye on the banks' lending against deposits shows up problems as well.
As prices rise, people at the limit of their ability to pay lose the lot.
If enough loans go bad, and the bank is lending to loan, the banks can fail.
The UK saw that mess a few short years ago.
I look at camera shops.
A couple of years ago, their windows were packed with display stock - last week, it was about 30% cameras and a lot of boxes and advertising things.
Only one reason for that - people aren't buying.
As businesses start to fail, people lose jobs, can't service their loans and BANG.

“Hmm... Sounds very interesting, this Ayung River area, how close are they to the beach? Are there many people outside Bali building houses or villas there?  Is the price of land in Ubud still increasing or have it reach peak?”

Ubud is the cultural heart of Bali located in the second richest Regency of Bali which is Gianyar.  Not surprisingly, Badung is the richest Regency.  Ubud has long been a haven for more upscale westerners moving to Bali.  Most all of the most famous artists of Bali, as well as the top expatriate artists have lived here. 

If you are familiar with Liz Gilbert's book and resulting movie, “Eat, Pray, Love” it is centered in Ubud.   

If you look at the cover of the book, “Bali Style” that villa is just a short walk from my own compound and is indicative of the many multi-million dollar villas/estates to be found in and around Ubud.  It is one of the few remaining places on Bali that while great wealth has come to the area, the Balinese still maintain their cultural traditions.     

I'm sure Jakarta is a fine place to invest, but you might wonder why Tommy Suharto and a host of other wealthy Javanese have been investing in Bali for decades.  I say this only to dispute your earlier claim that Jakarta is a better place to invest than Bali…and as I say, a whole lot of Javanese would vehemently disagree with that.  That said, I have no interest in promoting real estate investment in Bali…in fact, just the opposite. 

We are not very close to the beach, which is a 30 minute drive, but the most valuable properties on Bali are not necessarily (and often aren't) beach front.   And yes, land prices continue to rise in spite of many village banjars putting adat restrictions on who one can, and cannot sell to.

Hi Ubudian,
Can I ask for your suggestion please. Being someone who is familiar to the area, do you think it's better to buy a small place in Sangeh (around 5 are with a very humble house on it) or a land in Tegallalang?

It is more for investment at the moment since I am not yet ready to make a full residency in Bali but who knows what the future holds.

Thank you so much !

Hi Olivia,

As a foreigner you can not buy land or properties with land.

Only if your spouse is Indonesian and you have a prenup then it's possible.....

Hi Olivia,

Between those two villages it's basically “six of one, half dozen of the other” or “sama sama.”

Both villages have good reputations in dealing with foreigners, or, at least I can say I haven't heard of any significant problems from any other expats living in those villages.

The most important thing for you is to establish a very good relationship with the head of whichever village you decide upon.  This is particularly vital since it seems you will be absent most of the time.  And, since your primary objective seems to be investment, you will want to take on as long a lease as possible…a Hak Pakai lease being possible for up to 50 years.

If you decide to build a “modest house” five are is right at the minimal amount to allow for a house temple, small swimming pool, adequate parking and some decent gardens.

Oh gosh, I've missed a lot. I just came back from Jakarta & bought a property in Jakarta. Low-end property but enough. Im not a fancy rich expatriate who can buy property in bali, yet.......hahaha, thanks for all the advices

"Im not a fancy rich expatriate who can buy property in bali..."

More to point, you're not an expatriate either, thus you can buy property anywhere you like in all of Indonesia. 

"Fancy rich expatriates" can't buy property here...no matter how much money they have.  I hope you can appreciate the difference.

As an individual I'm not eligible to buy property, but I got my way..legal way of course and I was referring that I am an expatriate here not in Indonesia. Sorry for the confusion.

I read in the news that new rules coming out soon and foreigners can buy property in Indonesia... Only for high rise apartments and have to be minimum 5billion rupiah.

chaviola wrote:

I read in the news that new rules coming out soon and foreigners can buy property in Indonesia... Only for high rise apartments and have to be minimum 5billion rupiah.

Not quite.
I gather the limit is scrapped, but it isn't a sale, it's a for ever lease.
I fully expect a court challenge from a nationalist group, so be careful.

chaviola wrote:

Oh gosh, I've missed a lot. I just came back from Jakarta & bought a property in Jakarta. Low-end property but enough. Im not a fancy rich expatriate who can buy property in bali, yet.......hahaha, thanks for all the advices

I think it is fine to buy low end property, but even better to buy run down/old properties in town that you can renovate and either flip or rent out. Another option is to buy in Lombok where land is still very cheap.

"As an individual I'm not eligible to buy property, but I got my way..legal way of course and I was referring that I am an expatriate here not in Indonesia. Sorry for the confusion."

Your profile states, "I come from Indonesia" which of course implies that you're Indonesian.  If that is the case, then you are most certainly eligible to buy land (property) in Indonesia.

And Lombok is pretty fantastic.
I'd move there.

You might want to at least visit Bali once Fred before packing your bags!   

Ubudian wrote:

You might want to at least visit Bali once Fred before packing your bags!   

My wife won a free hotel room last week.
We popped to the Jakarta hotel in order to find out how many day we had to book to get something free - none - it was a crappy timeshare job.

I say, "crappy" because I was early and they wouldn't give me any details, especially price, until the meeting started.
I stick to a rule - if they won't tell you essential details - it has to be a scam job, either a rip off or a crazy price.

Still, I hear a lot of good things about Bali, so maybe you can buy me a coke on of these days.

in Jakarta the cheap deals r off, everything Is overprized, and soon the market will crash, seeing whats happening in china, then y stucked with a fance apartment which no one wants to buy, and you loose.
I had bough an apt in Kalibata, just a simple 2 br for 280 k, trying to sell it for 2 years, because don't like the crapy neighbourhood, so after 2 years getting a sale of 700 k, which I grabed with both hands, even put a new tv in now 6 months later, the prizes are 500 k, nobody wants to invest there anymore, and if you have a lot of money yes stay in Jakarta on the 40th floor with a 5 bil apartment until your old, not me, still waiting for my Bali, Lombok, or Puncak deal, patient is the name of the game my friends, the market will crash, and if the signs are there, you are too late, I was in the market crash in the US, the same is building up in Indonesia, soon the bubble in China will burst, and all properties in Indonesia will be going down with at least 40 percent, and still no one will be able to buy, with the current financial situation its much better to watch and see, and stay on the sidelines, there are deals to be made like everywhere else, but caution is the name of the game. anyway if y reaching the 60 you don't invest anymore, you either have cash to live, which came from earlier investment, if you still making investments at that age, its means that either y loading with money, or y really stupid, because if something happens, y will never recoup it anymore, y cannot work here, even if y legally would, too old, and have a terrible old life, not me, glad I bumbed off a couple of properties, have also something in depat area which has doubled in 1 year so waiting for the 1 M question, and will sell it asap, the coming 5 years will be scary and a lots of risc, and it will happen withing that time, and then y should be ready to buy, that's the way the game is played imho.

An investment turns into a mess when you make a bad deal.

The house over the road from my hovel is up for sale 'quick" at 2 billion.
It's probably worth a quarter of that, but estate agents are ramping up the prices to crazy levels.

They'll make a mint, but a load are buying to rent, or buying to sell, and they can't do either because the prices are stupid. That means they'll go bust.
To the serious problem.
If they've borrowed the cash, the bank has a 'non performing' loan (They're getting nothing back).
Fine as long as the bank has plenty of assets to cover the losses until things settle down and they can sell the repossessed property, but if the banks are borrowing to loan - oops.

Royal bank of Scotland time, but will the Indonesian government bail them out?

Still, retail sales are great - or are they?
I wander around camera shops a lot (I'm a geek, what can I say?). A couple of years ago, all the shop windows were full of kit, but now it's a camera, an ad board, a camera, and so on.
Shops only drop stock levels when sales are poor, and a load have closed. My trip to Poin square this weekend saw me looking into several empty shops that were trading just before the holiday.

I see a major mess in the not too distant future.

agree, its going to be a mess, look at the level of the IDR, BCA which has a lot of loans, has now lowered their interest rates on time deposits in the last 3 months from 7 to 6 to now 5.25, since they have a lot of financial deals, and r over the level of BI, to the have to lower their rates. If y can read between the lines you know why...

I hopped to Mandiri bank, giving me a beautifull 7.5 at 3 months, for the time being this is all yo can do, sitting it out safe, no investments, no deals, if the shit hits the fan, I am ready to deal.

and ofcourse just for the stupid geeks, stay away from private small banks who are offering 9.5 sometimes

It is very interesting to read the above. Do you really think property prices in Indonesia will crash? Then that means just wait till they crash, buy up lots of property when the price is cheap because eventually it will go up again. Generally speaking I think property prices in Indonesia are a lot cheaper than many other Asian countries.

looking to China is all we have to do, they crash, we crash, so its just a waiting game, been in this onces before during the US crash, backed out in time, but not enough

Exactly....look at China now, question of time and all will collapse here.

The value of IDR is nothing anymore (except you still manage hard currency)