How do you solve a problem like Brazil?

Wow, that was a rant! I do agree with most of your discussion except for the racism part. I have been there many times, family is currently there, building a house and will permanently start living there in December. Now if you said it was based on money...yes. However the middle class has grown leaps and bounds in past 10yrs. And the workers who work in your homes get great benefits: good pay, vacation time, sick days, health care, Christmas bonuses, etc... The one I will employ is white.

Yes the government is corrupt and I have no clue how to fix this. I guess convince the poor to not vote for the guy/gal who gives them free stuff.

Its what you get when, the country are lead by the socialists,,
we need more of your money, no even more money
at least you know where you are in a capitalist country
"A quote! attributed to "The Great Margaret Thatcher" goes along the lines ... "Socialists run out of other peoples' money to spend.
Look at Greece,,
and now look at this lot, now getting in bed with the Russians
"the people that really care" its all going to end in tears, very big tears,

I think you confuse corruption and incompetence for socialism. Look at the Scandinavian countries. That's real democratic socialism. I'm sure you'd love their quality of life. Regardless is very distressing and I'm concerned for all my friends in Brazil. It does make me a little grateful I didn't make my expat move to Brazil yet.

Hi there
I don't think I am confused,
I live in Brazil, and I know what's going on here, well in the area a live in
I moved to Brazil for 3 reasons,
1 my wife, who's Brazilian
2 the sunshine, I never used to get much of that in England
3 I know I can make money here
it seams to me, that most things are run really badly here, and that give "people" with the same mind set as me the opportunity to start and run a business better than the Brazilians do,, and the best time is now

Hi Victoria,

I agree fully with much of what you said. I don't consider it as much a rant as a well thought out venting of the mutual frustration of most expats in Brazil. Our big problem is that we know how things are SUPPOSED to work because we've seen them work time-and-time-again. We get frustrated when we see that nothing here works, and that the average Brazilian simply seems to accept the mediocre as normal.

Regarding the economic downturn, well the economy of any country is cyclical and subject to its ups and downs. The current problems with the Brazilian economy are a direct reflection of the political uncertainty in this country because of all of the protesting and outcry for the impeachment of Dilma. Also a significant drying up of foreign investment due to all the corruption scandals. Certainly no right thinking American investor or corporation is going to want to do business here, with the bribes that have become a part of the DNA of doing business in this country; especially when that could run them afoul of the Corrupt Foreign Practices Act of 1977 in the USA and potentially land them in jail. They'd be crazy to invest here considering the present political and enconomic climate of confusion.

I think that the chances of Dilma's impeachment grow stronger with each passing day, and that should it really happen that we're going to see renewed confidence in Brazil abroad and potentially a slow return of foreign investment as a result. You weren't here when the Sub-Prime Crisis in the USA hit almost every nation on earth. Well Brazil actually was the last country to suffer the effects of the crisis (mostly because of the strict banking regulations in this country that I usually complain about), and it was the first country to recover and did so in a much stronger way than most other nations. I'm sure that we've not seen the worst yet, but I'm quite confident that soon we'll see the cycle swing and we'll be on the upturn again in the future.

Also, it is not just Brazil and our internal troubles that are causing the problems with your earnings losing their value. The greater culprit right now is probably the Chinese Economic Crisis which is causing the value of the US greenback to soar to ever newer heights. This only serves to make the Brazilian Real weaker in comparison, so we're kind of getting a double whammy right now.

Cheers,
James       Expat-blog Experts Team

Hi there
I think a lot of this country problems is from the money its not getting from its oil and its going to get worse.
Oil is going down in price and its going to go down even more now Iran, is back in favour,
this country relied on the money coming in to subsidised most thing, even they own pocket,
and now the moneys not there,

You're right about that. One major problem that most expats in Brazil that aren't somehow connected to the petroleum industry don't seem to know about is that ALL of the refineries here in Brazil were constructed before any of the major oil discoveries in this country. They were built to refine oil coming from the Middle-East and Saudi Arabia. Refineries can't be easily converted over to other types of crude, so Brazil is in a position that while it produces almost as much oil as it consumes, all of our oil must be exported and we must import all the oil we're refining and using here in Brazil. Strange as it may seem.

Cheers,
James

I feel like Brazilians are too passive for any real change...at least I feel like it's this way in the north. Businesses are terrible, but people just accept that they are terrible and keep coming back to them. It's the same way with politics.

Hi James
from what ive been reading the oil that is found in Brazil is some of the deepest oil every found, and for that it also cost the most to get out of the ground
it cost the Brazilian government more to get out that they can sell it for
they have to start to find cheaper oil on the land, like there doing and done in England at the moment
the Brazilian government don't have the money to do that
they need to sell Petrobras like the brattish did with BP, and just get the tax
you should see how big BP is now, and how much tax the brattish get from it
no government can run a business, they cant even run a country

Keep in mind that with falling oil price PB is now actually earning money on their export of crude oil/import of refined products because they are allowed to sell the gasoline at the Brazilian market at a higher price then what they pay for it.

It was the opposite when the oil price was US$ 100 +, then the government forced PB to subsidize the gasoline price just to try to tame the inflation - that policy certainly came back to bite them.

Also, everyone is talking about the corruption scandal in PB but the company had to write down R$ 20 billion on two refineries that has been under construction for years (they where supposed to have been completed years ago for a fraction of the price - construction has been stopped on both indefinitely) This kind of "incidents" happens with every major construction project in Brazil but unfortunately nobody is held accountable and it certainly costs the contry more than the corruption (Mismanagement and corruption is probably closely intertweened but that is a longer discussion)

philmoto85 wrote:

I think you confuse corruption and incompetence for socialism. Look at the Scandinavian countries. That's real democratic socialism. I'm sure you'd love their quality of life. Regardless is very distressing and I'm concerned for all my friends in Brazil. It does make me a little grateful I didn't make my expat move to Brazil yet.

I am a Norwegian and it is a common misconception that the nordic contries are socialist (except maybe if you use the US definition of socialism). The policies/goverments are very comparable to Canada, Germany, Netherlands, etc.

The policies in Brazil are certainly not socialist - during the PT years the policy has been populist. Not as extreme as Venezuela but a better comparizon is Argentina.

It appears that Brazil's problems are many-fold. Every country has its fair share of problems, but in Brazil's case, I just don't see a light at the end of the tunnel. Existing cultural attitudes towards the poor need to change, yet I just don't see this happening anytime soon. Not when the general sentiment among middle/upper class Brazilians seems to be, "Why should tax payers' dollars go to help the poor when we don't even have decent, paved roads? The poor are all criminals. The poor are lazy. The people in the Northeast are the problem. They're the ignorant people who elect our politicians. Let's blame them for everything. Let the police 'deal' with them as they wish!"

I know I just moved here, and I admit that I don't know all that there is to know about this country, but the longer I'm here, the more I realize that sweeping changes are necessary. If things are going to change for the better, then this country needs political, economic, and social reforms on an almost revolutionary level. This means that there needs to be some sort of upheaval...this country needs to be turned upside down. But who would sincerely welcome this? The politicians? Not.  The middle/upper class Brazilians who risk losing their maids, nannies, and all the countless others in the bottom social classes who service them? Not.

Truthfully, the idea of a revolution is frightening. My husband and I are also members of the middle/upper classes, and we enjoy a nice standard of living here in Brazil. However, if things don't change, then I think Brazil will truly f*ck itself down the line (please excuse my language) and that both the rich and poor will have to face the consequences.

Maybe it's too late? Maybe the disparity (both economic and cultural) between the rich and the poor has cemented Brazil's fate?   

http://money.cnn.com/2015/07/28/investi … g-markets/

"Developing countries that have made significant economic reforms, like India and Mexico, should weather the dollar's rise, experts say. But for the "Brazils of the world," which have been slow to reform, the dollar continues to deal more blows to their battered economies."

http://www.businessinsider.com/afp-braz … ids-2015-7

"Analysts say Brazil's once booming economy suffers deep underlying illnesses, notably the massive corruption scandal unfolding at national oil company Petrobras and rippling across other top companies and into political circles

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-o … e25608403/

“The outlook is worrisome because the country can't take any more tax hikes and it's becoming harder by the day to change the country's lavish government spending culture,” Almeida said in a phone interview. “Brazilian society must learn to make choices.”

http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/3/5fd45144 … z3hVUs8orY

"This is beyond the ugly and painful phenomenon of stagflation: if Brazil's economy were stagnant, rather than contracting by an expected 1.5 per cent or more this year, the situation would be less dire."  Uglier and more painful than stagflation? 

Well, since the corruption that is in the very DNA of this country has existed for nearly six centuries now, I highly doubt that this is going to change any time soon. Brazilians have grown to accept it as somehow "normal" over the centuries. Those who've tried to fight it have often simply vanished, or met gruesome ends. They've been programmed to accept it in silent resignation unfortunately. But then again, what do economists know about the history and culture of Brazil??? I'm sure that they are of the misguided notion that change wouldn't be too difficult for Brazilians to deal with.

Cheers,
James      Expat-blog Experts Team

I enjoy being here, its fun, the sun's out most of the time and dealing with people like you, there's money to be made,
and their lots more like me coming, to make even money out of people like me
and one day your home will be mine, and people like you will be begging people like me to stay
but as long as your begging don't come with swearing

I agree with your view,but the population in the Northeast does not carry the vote,although they are the most easily bought. I believe the whole country looks at the government as being Santa Claus.

Awesome, back to our happy discussions! 122 days and I'm on my way. Household goods ship 1st week of September. 😎

Hi everyone,

just to let you know, I've removed a few posts from this thread

All the best,

Julien

It looks as if I missed some drama! 

I just wanted to share this thoughtful and enlightening article about race and social inequality in Brazil...the article is quite long, but please do read it if you get the chance and share what you thought of it.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/wor … e25779474/

Thanks Julien, it is very much appreciated.

Cheers,
James

philmoto85 wrote:

I think you confuse corruption and incompetence for socialism. Look at the Scandinavian countries. That's real democratic socialism. I'm sure you'd love their quality of life. Regardless is very distressing and I'm concerned for all my friends in Brazil. It does make me a little grateful I didn't make my expat move to Brazil yet.

Not trying to turn this into a debate about socialism, but as was pointed out by a Norwegian, Scandinavian countries are is not really socialist. Sweden used to be quite far toward socialism, but backed away when it was found to be clearly not working. I recall watching a documentary by Radio Sweden called "we can't all work for the government" (or something like that). The problem with socialism is that it works until the government runs out of other people's money to spend, to quote Margaret Thatcher. Corruption and incompetence can exist in any ideology.

""How do you solve a problem like Brazil""
DELETE THEM
well done Boss

I agree 100% with all the points Victoria made.
In Brazil "what can one person do" is the motto when talking about anything not directly involved with the family. Brazil is not a society, it's a bunch of families.
How can Brazilians let this happen.
A 50%+ tax on regulated necessities (water, electricity) is absurdly regressive.
Changing the constitution so that banks can charge 12%/month interest on credit card debt rung up by financially uneducated people is evil.
A mandatory vote makes vote buying cheap - a beer and a bus ticket.
One can go on and on ranting about the wrong headed practices and policies in place in Brazil, but Brazilians are abjectly disinterested.
So buy US dollars, enjoy the weather and try your best to at least make people aware that things should be different - and are in almost all developed countries..
Back in the day, when the Portuguese ran Brazil, the bosses in Portugal would ship out their most pathetic family members to run the estate in Brazil - and their heirs run this country.
ps, I don't think the problem is "socialism," it's stupidity, greed, and racism/elitism.

I haven`t even seen what the guy posted and it's already gone, hum..... .

ClaudioD wrote:

I haven`t even seen what the guy posted and it's already gone, hum..... .

Posts that are removed, are irrelevant to the ongoing thread or may be harmful to members. This is why we treat these quickly

Brazil does have its problems. I am in the US right now and my wife who is a Brazilian national is in Brazil. I am constantly wiring her US dollars right now as the exchange rate just keeps making it better for the dollar. She is fixing up our apartment with the extra reals from the conversion rate. It is a double edged sword-our dollars are worth more in Brazil but the Brazilian economy is bad.

Roadtripking wrote:

Brazil does have its problems. I am in the US right now and my wife who is a Brazilian national is in Brazil. I am constantly wiring her US dollars right now as the exchange rate just keeps making it better for the dollar. She is fixing up our apartment with the extra reals from the conversion rate. It is a double edged sword-our dollars are worth more in Brazil but the Brazilian economy is bad.

I'm glad that you and your wife were able to take advantage of the situation to fix up your apartment.   

Unfortunately, for those of us here in Brazil who are earning our living in BRLs, it just plain sucks. I still have family and friends in the United States, and it is now much more expensive to visit them or to buy presents for them than it was a year ago when I first got here. 

Thank you for framing with elequant words your vent. You have expressed exactly what I have observed after living in NE Brazil for 9 years. Here politics  is like America's representation for  Public  -on steroids!
The answer for the future can only be found in the potential of its youth because any Nation is only one generation away from total depravity..
Unfortunately I have observed no one in Politics selflessly interested in putting forth a model school plan. for  say a 12 year generation- Having an analysis educational study system that actually works, including its effects on Society.    How about this showing the effects of  moral principles being taught as requisite. Along with reading,writing. learn principles of economy and how history is the best teacher for any people to be truly liberated  and  avoid full circle return to slavery.
As in America, BraIl has  aborted God, leaving an ignorant , self indulgent near in-human Race. What is facing both Brazil and USA in the near future should give us pause. World movers and shakers (those with nothing but power and $ on their hands are ushering us to a totally  controlled human race.  Reaping the Same Thing  which  has generationally been sewn,  promises to   be brought Later having  been Multiplied .
Transcending Countries Globally facing  failing economies has at its core a moral issue. This comment receives general rejection because the majority of mankind  is set on doing what is right in there own mind. The result finds its seed thought in accepting the lie that; once upon a time in eternity past -a  big bang took place, 2 enzymes of rocks had sex and whalla- here we are!
Thanks for reading m
y vent. Ron Thomas.

???????????

If there is one thing there is to much of in Brazil it is jesus freaks !! Look at the insane abortion ban that destroys the lifes of young girls (and the lives of the young children they get as well with a high probability)

Look at the evangelical churches all over poor areas in Brazil that "charges" 10% of the income of these people that are barely able to feed themselves

Brazil has the first billionare priest in the world - he flies around the country in a 737, collecting millions from mega events where he "heals" people. Last year he opened a mega church in Sao Paulo that costed hundreds of millions to build. It is just obcene how the so called priests are abusing the poor in this country

And, by the way, evolution is a fact that no one who is willing to remove their religious glasses for a few minutes denies - the same way it is a fact that the world circles around the sun and not the other way around - another fact that the church denied until it was impossible any longer

Just a gentle reminder to everyone posting here... while I personally agree with much of what is being said here Expat-blog has a very firm policy of keeping topics from straying into political and religious areas. Let's all try and steer clear of making any political and/or religious statements that may cause this thread to be closed by moderators.

Cheers,
James    Expat-blog Experts Team

Hello all

As stated by James, we accept opinions of members, but since Religious and political issues tend to be very touchy, we ask members to avoid talking about such.

Thank you


Regards
Kenjee

My heart breaks when I think about the plight of the average Brazilian worker and the pathetic wage that the vast majority of them are forced to try to live on.

I come from Canada where the current minimum wage varies by province from $10.50 to $12.50 (CAD) per hour. That means anywhere from R$27.83 to R$33.13 (BRL) per hour after conversion.

I've heard that Austrailia has a minimum wage of $16 per hour and that their economy is doing remarkably well.

Meanwhile the current minimum wage in Brazil is R$788 per month, or R$3.83 per hour by comparison. The cost of living in Canada isn't so much higher as to account for the extreme difference in the minimum wage, believe me.  Truth is that the minimum wage in this country violates the Federal Constitution so badly that just to comply it would need to be nearly quadrupled. Watchdog organizations have calculated the cost of basic needs of a family and estimate them to be R$3118.62, so that is what the minimum wage really should be if it were to conform to the Constitution.

The current economic slump combined with inflation hits the lower income Brazilians the hardest. Food prices are constantly rising and if that isn't bad enough the government doesn't even give them a break on food. The average tax load on FOOD is 22% of the overall grocery bill. Brazilians earning the minimum wage pay all the same taxes as everyone else, with the exception of income tax because they earn less than the exempt amount (and less than the poverty line too).

Every year the obscenely overpaid politicians in this country argue bitterly about the pittance that they give to Brazilians in the way of an increase in the minimum wage. They come up with the most ridiculous reasons for their tightfistedness, claiming that any significant raise would bankrupt the country. Nothing could be further from the truth. In fact, if the minimum wage actually were R$3118 per month as it should be, every last Brazilian earning the minimum wage would be required to pay income tax, since it would put all of them well above the exempt amount. In other words a higher minimum wage would actually mean much higher tax revenues for the government, increased spending would stimulate the economy, and everyone would be better off as a result.

The prices of most consumer goods and foods are almost the same as they are in North America, with a few minor exceptions. Most imported products actually are far more expensive here than in the country they're manufactured in, thanks to a 60 percent import tax on top of all the other six built-in taxes on everything we buy in this country. What is killing this country's economy is the pathetic minimum wage, combined with protectionist laws and tariffs that eliminate competitive pricing and remove all necessity for quality in everything produced in this country.

And of course there's all those obscenely overpaid politicians and public employees too which are dragging this country's economy down. Fully one third of Brazil's Gross Domestic Product (GDP) goes to support the bureaucracy that this country is steeped in. How do you fix that???????

Cheers,
James      Expat-blog Experts Team

Aliens ? Really?
It is fact based on archeological evidence that homo sapiens evolved as primates on the savannahs of Eastern Africa thence migrated throughout Asia and into Europe.
Anyway I thought this was a forum for expatriates to exchange information and experiences of life in Brazil.
If you want to express theories, how about this; By Christmas of this year the Brazilian Real will be at 5.0 to the US Dollar.
And how can 1% be a majority in any mathematic equation ?

Well, for the state of São Paulo, the only solution is to get rid of Brasilia and become an independent country.

And I would advise every other Brazilian state to do the same.

Brasilia can´t be fixed. It´s just a central "government" that was created according to Getúlio´s centralizing intentions to steal more states in a centralized way.

SÃO PAULO is my country!

Hello daugustonew,

While your theory looks good on paper, in practice separation has never really worked anywhere in the world. Once a nation is formed by a federation of various states, it is virtually impossible to "unring" the bell. We tried it twice in Canada, both times were absolute failures. The United States of America has also had a couple of unsuccessful goes at it too, and just look at what's going on right now in the European Union.

What the rather simplistic theory of separation fails completely to take into account is that while there is no question that the State of São Paulo is the financial heart of this country and its largest economy, is that it therefore stands to reason that the greater part of the national debt was incurred for the benefit of São Paulo too. No individual state in any nation can simply walk away from a union, without taking its fair share of the national debt with it too. That would be a crushing blow for the economy of São Paulo, especially if all the international creditors got anxious, didn't have confidence in the viability of the state and called in those debts all at once.

Then too there is the need for a newly formed independent "country" to have its own currency and its own Central Bank. Don't think for one moment that São Paulo could continue to use the Real, that would guarantee that nothing would change since you'd be pinning all your hopes on a failing currency. You could of course use the US dollar like Ecuador, but most countries that have gone that route are now dropping the US greenback like a hot rock, it is destroying their national economy.

The only advantage that São Paulo really has, that the Province of Quebec didn't have when it tried to separate is that it isn't completely landlocked. São Paulo has the Port of Santos. Quebec didn't have that luxury, they were completely landlocked, surrounded on all sides by the rest of Canada and the USA. They would have had to pay enormous fees to have access to the Atlantic Ocean through the Saint Lawrence Seaway.

Sometimes the grass does look greener on the other side of the fence, but that's usually because there's a septic tank under it somewhere.

Cheers,
James    Expat-blog Experts Team

I offer an apology for getting too close to where you really live and you are correct this type of information should be a hidden issue. After all Eternity is such a short time.
Getting back to info pertaining  Brazil I would not be surprised if you are correct concerning your prediction regarding The Real. It continues daily in  taking  a hit as we watch it  plummet!  Quality of  goods and services continue to diminish. As in America ,China products are getting a strangle hold in the economy. A Higher trade value placed on  Raw materials and high WORLD demand products like sugar could sweeten Brazil's position?

I gripe about the Police State in which we live but this is nothing compared to what is  forecast for America. Generally the Public is so dumbed down here they do not need to build hundreds of Internment Camps as USA now has. The Public at the mercy of militant police force has proven giving guns to just the criminals is a formula for social disaster and unrest, with no one but the rich find some 'peace of mind'.

How would any State of Brazil find enough quality  leadership becoming an independent county. The Public has no voice this is why nothing can ever change. Based on white collar criminals distributing the wealth to their cronies to stay in office.

There's not enough coordinated selfless  intelligence left to bring a coup much less a local  overthrow of government.

How do we solve the Brazils problem? Re-educate the Public, now wasn't that easy?

Oh ken jee, How can one truly and openly talk about fixing broken Brazil  without discussing Politics and Religion. This warning could become, thus considered; a  perfect example of a controlled network! I would think it might be counter productive to 'Expat.com by dictating what is acceptable FREE SPEACH. However I respect your intent ,so will refrain from talking about anything of life changing importance. It is apparent that topics touching deep needs or nerves -are NOT to be  discussed.
Could the solution to Brazils problems be formatted out of blogs, so  Fundamental Problems of Society are never mentioned much less discussed in open forum? How expat that would be.
Respectfully Submitted, Ron.