Buying property when we emigrate.

No, the land certificate (deed) can only be in the name of an Indonesian citizen.

Our esteemed friend in Bali is correct.
If you have a prenup stating you have no title to land in your wife's name, she can buy.

Indonesian law states all property is 50/50 owned in marriage; if she owns it, so do you, and foreigners can't own land here.

There is a new law that will allow you to buy a condo with a price tag of greater than Rp5 billion on a 'use forever and be able to sell it' basis, but not actually own it.


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Thanks for the info guys but im a little confused. One says all property is 50/50 owned in a marriage while the other says the title deeds can only be in the name of an Indonesian. Help guys.

wednesday1960 wrote:

Thanks for the info guys but im a little confused. One says all property is 50/50 owned in a marriage while the other says the title deeds can only be in the name of an Indonesian. Help guys.

Both are correct, but Roy's post is 'stunted'.
Title deeds can only be in the name of an Indonesian, but if your Indonesian wife is on the deeds, you are deemed to own 50% of the property, and foreigners can't own property in Indonesia.

If you have a prenup stating your wife is the sole owner of any property in Indonesia, the rule no longer applies.

You talk about 5 years ahead, laws and regulations changing here often so I would not bother to much now.

As of today it is indeed as Fred and Ubudian saying but again since your plan is buying property in 5 years from now, it may be a different story.

Mark Twain used to write about the weather in my home state, Connecticut, "if you don't like the weather, just wait a minute, as it will change." 

Same could be said about the laws and regulations in Indonesia, "if you don't like the laws and regulations here, just wait a minute as they will change."

Indonesia...never a dull moment!   

Mas Fred, seems y know I bit more on the subject then me, no time yet to inquire via Notary yet, but I will soon just wondering.
married to Indo spouse 20 years, wife has lots of properties houses and land, its all in her name, easier, so if something happens to me, its all hers from the beginning, bankaccounts we own with both names ofcourse.
so if something happens to me, all clear no problem, now something happens to her ! will the properties go to me ( I cant own ) or where it goes ? I heart once has 6 months time to sell if situation like this occurs or will it go to kids ?, I must say we are planning to go to a lawyer to put something on paper, which should be legal and binding, don't like the feeling if I stay alone, some A.H. of family or kids will have power more then me if y know what I mean, also we don't like the stupid agama law that it will be divided to boys more then girl, its not going to happen, but then again, the question is " is an official binding legal paper more powerfull then the " agama law " mm .. " just wondering your thoughts on that one, before I run off to freaking lawyers. hah

Hi Henk,

My understanding is that the adat or customary law in Bali and other provinces of Indonesia is superseded by national/constitutional law.  The adat law concerning inheritance/'waris' included.  Customarily, Balinese do not write or notarise a will.  So the adat law takes care of a scenario where there is no provision for 'what happens after I die'.  It is a patrilineal inheritance structure.  In Java, I think, the property is inherited by the daughter by custom.  If a will is written, as long as it is within the bounds of the constitution and agrarian law that governs property ownership, inheritance will follow the written will rather than adat, wherever you are in Indonesia.

The big question is around the titles of the properties in question, and the citizenship of your children.  As you know, non-Indonesian citizens cannot hold freehold (Hak Milik) property, so if your wife holds freehold property and your children are not Indonesian citizens, then you have to change the titles or sell.  Under the current regulations you have one year 'grace period' to get yourself in order.  There are a couple of options, but often the title is changed to Hak Pakai.  This title of course has a time limitation under Indonesian law.  You can also sell the properties within this period and divide up the cash.  This scenario would also have to be covered by the will.

A good notary would be able to advise further on this.  I am not a notary, never mind a good one!  It's an interesting topic though.  You may be able to get more information or different points of view from PERCA, the mixed marriage association.

All the best,

Tom

thanks tom, it makes it clearer, well my kids have Indo nationality so that could make it more complicated, but I guess if nothing is written down it will all fall automatically to me, as a foreigner again, you cannot
own, so indeed, either sell within a time frame or you are ......
Glad to hear that the written laws goes before the adat or religious law, so that's one, I assume joint bankaccounts are not a problem, will all go to me personal if something should happen.
But since the inheritage locally here is always a big drama and fight, its much better to look ahead and get this done in a civil way, then just leaving it to the authorities or adat law, many people forget that, and its causes always dramas. the good thing is is something happens to the foreigner its okay the wife is covered 100 percent, that's good, BUt the otherway around will causes even withing a written law, a problem, since the problem is not the bank accounts, its the properties, which you cannot own, and forced to sell withing 1 year, that's is a problem it the worst case yes....
thanks tom interesting subject yes..

I think you can buy....

No foreigner can buy property in Indonesia, period...

henkrubus wrote:

No foreigner can buy property in Indonesia, period...

The exception being apartments, costing above Rp 5 billion of which this limit may be reduced or scrapped.....

saintjean wrote:

henkrubus wrote:

No foreigner can buy property in Indonesia, period...

The exception being apartments, costing above Rp 5 billion of which this limit may be reduced or scrapped.....

Almost.

Foreigners won't actually be able to buy property, but their cash gets them a 'forever' lease that can be sold on or passed on to whoever upon death.
In effect, they own it, but not actually.

Fly in the ointment time.
The Indonesian constitution states Indonesia is for the Indonesians, so I can see this being attacked in court by one nationalist group or another.

yes the 5 M apartments I know , BUT that law is not yet in place, that's one.....
"buying " on paper, and renting it for 30 years etc, imho is only for fools, and there are many hoax, I personally, because having an excellent mariages, don't care less, we buy, my wife owns, so we basicly own the places, but if she passes away, yes there is that  thing that I would have to sell within 1 year etc. but smart people r always a step ahead, we have a very good last will, which goes before any other religious, or adat law, and if we still have some property, planning to sell most of it at early old age, to enjoy the financials of that, only 1 place will be left, which will go to our daughter abroad, which is Indonesian, so she will own the " last " piece and will decide what to do, sell, lease, and she will be the one who also makes the financial decisions, if some left, because having to older boys, who are like many, just sitting around, sleeping, eating, and thinking " why have to work serious " if the money is coming our way anyway, well they will have to surprise of their lives, I must say, that my wife brought the kids into our marriage, we don't have any, so that will clear up some things I guess:)
I think its very easy, IF having a good relationship, to leave just everything to the longest living person, and then IF that should be me, putting some extra legal things in place, will do the job. As a person never been out of a job, working as of 15 years old, no lazy F*** is going to get it " easy " , but that's just my case, I am sure there thousands more....

but getting a bit of focus, I must say the Government is slowly, ofcourse for internal promotion, killing off all the facilities for foreigners, like the " teachers " thing, expats who have to speak Bahasa if want to get a working permit, making imported stuff like alcohol so expensive that nobody buys it, so many locals will die as flies, because making their own brew, as we all know. Beeing Nationalistisch is okay, but don't shut off all the roads in a situation, I think the economic team is very anti foreigner, and not very smart. Eg. local meat is 100 K, imported meat is 80 K, I mean, that's whats gonna happen with a policy like this, and many other rulings I am afraid of, are coming to us. It all causes inflation, and the IDR will melt down. Howmany foreigners will buy a freaking apartment on the 15th floor for 350.000 ? I guess not many, they are not stupid. So if the Chinese meltdown starts the housing business will be falling apart, the IDR will fall apart, and back to square one again, the poor locals will suffering even more, with lesser facilities.

As I understand it, this new 500 billion (or whatever the number shakes out to be) apartment purchasing/ownership will be based on the Thai approach which is based on western condominium property laws.  In that case, yes, the foreigner will in fact be allowed to own “property” that being defined as the particular unit within the apartment/condominium complex, and that right of ownership (of that unit) can be resold and or passed on through last will and testament.  In other words, they will be a real tangible asset far beyond a lease.

Land ownership, on the other hand, is not affected by this change.  That remains impossible for foreigners aside from certain situations within PMA establish businesses. 

As for the current seemingly “anti-foreigner” climate, I still see this as coming from two directions…one being the unknown effect over time of the ASEAN agreement.  And the other being the capitulation (horse trading) that Jokowi had to deal with in order for the DPR (legislature) to form a coalition in order to ratify his presidency.  In that “horse trading” certain ministers had to be placed into positions that Jokowi would unlikely have ever considered.

Those of us who have been around for a long time (as in back to the Soeharto days) are somewhat more used to these shifts back and forth…but also more inclined to understand that sooner or later common sense prevails. 

"Never a dull moment" has been de rigueur here for a very long time.

very good view on it sir... as my thoughts also going in this directions.. land propertie will be a big no,
it will be grapped up by the big boys, prices will be getting sky high, and locals will not able to buy right now, see whats happening in Bali, although this is a scrupules developers greed, driving the prices up as creazy, but as long they are selling, prices will not go down. Jokowi has to walk on eggs in order to stay ahead, but soon Mr. tommy will be up and running again as head of golkar, it will be very difficult to explain this all to the folks, but then again, you vote, and should know with the next voting who is your friend, and who is not simple. vote rigging yes, it will happen, but they cannot rig them all..
In Indonesia laws can change any time of the day, month, so.. mm just wondering if the total alcohol banning law will come into effect mm ? will lose a lot of toerists, it will also make Bali expensive now that liquer will costs like 200 bucks a bottle soon....
lots of illegal bootleggers will poison a lot of other folks, its the wrong track, but they don't see it, or don't care, the taxes they get is nothing compare what is going to happen. I made a joke yesterday,
fly to Singapore bring 2 bottles of whisky with you, sell it for 150 bucks and still have a profit, you could do this every day

Whatever happens with housing,  still need to shrewd enough to send in the wife to do the deals before the additional white face tax is applied. As for Alcohol, where there's a will there's  a way. Now where is that mouthwash, I could do with a drink!

does the white face tax mean what I think it does ? im married to a very shrewd indo lady so, when we buy a property in bali in the future, I keep a low profile, yes?

based on the Thai

Which, for those reading the news from that neck of the woods, has just be invalidated in court, leaving a lot of people in a mess.

http://m.bangkokpost.com/latestnews/485221

Scary article Fred, but a warning for expats in Indo. Any time, any place, the  " law " can change, seeing all those expats in Thailand ending up with nothing now is indeed scary, putting the life saving or retirement funds into so called " renting semi buying " a property should be a warning to expats in Indo. In Asian countries paper is just what it is " paper " and law can be interpretendent in many way the dollars goes.
So if you have a serious marriage like I said before, no problem, if you one of those with those Leases in your own name, you will not sleep well after reading this " Thailand Drama " I tell you. glad I am not in that situation, and told many times before, " buying/ semi owning " on paper a place for 30 years, is playing " red or black " in the casino, if you have s** loads of money go ahead, but if living of retirement don't go this way, there is a big big risc.
And then is the " white face tax " involved, I love this expression from an earlier posting )

My husband and I are originally from The Netherlands (Holland). We built a house, which we own and the land is Hak Pakai on our name. Hak Pakai means that you "rent" the land from the government for a period of 25 years. The goverment allows you to use the land. Already after the first year of the 25 years' period you can extend the Hak Pakai with another 25 years and so on. The cost of extention is low.
Hak Pakai is the only legal way to have land on a foreigner's name. In all other cases you need an Indonesian citizan.
The land on which we built our house was originally Hak Milik, which means that an Indonesian citizan owned the land. We converted the land to Hak Pakai because we are selling our property and it is easier for a foreigner to buy our property. If the buyer is Indonesian it can easy be transferred to Hak Milik again.

I agree with Vera Payens that HAK PAKAI is often the only way for foreigners to hold a name legally on paper on Indonesian property.
However, do note that before Hak Pakai can be sold off, it has to revert to government property, And the word on the street is that usually a drop in value of the property.

Having a Pre-nup is a MUST To DO for International Marriages between an Indonesian citizen and Non-Indonesian citizen. In fact, many/majority didnt know or realise it.

It doesnt only affect the issue of property ownership, it affects many facets of the Indonesian spouse. Basically the Indonesian spouse could not enjoy the ordinary rights of Indonesian citizen of owning a property, having a bank loan on property collateral, and further down inheritance issues.

Yes and no is my take on pre-nups.  There are other factors…one of which is children from that union.  Another factor is where in Indonesia we are talking about. 

A third factor is the current trend within Indonesia towards more “rights” for foreign expats, including those who don't decide to pursue citizenship.  For example, Indonesia is very close to allowing dual citizenship across the board. 

If you haven't already seen this, have a look here:

https://www.change.org/p/presiden-repub … m=whatsapp

Within my own short time of 24/7 living in Indonesia these past 17 years we have already seen dual citizenship for children of mixed marriages, and the introduction of the KITAP visa.  The trend is healthy, and in the right direction. 

While a pre-nup was at one time essential (as you said), the importance of that is slowly waning.

Just for information to record.
The President has signed into effect 28 December 2015, a new law that stipulates the methods on how Non-Indonesian citizens can have properties legally.
My feeling as well, that the situation is fluid and will change for more relaxation on the regulations over time.

http://properti.kompas.com/read/2016/01 … ign=kpoprdhttp://properti.kompas.com/read/2016/01 … g.Menarik.


JAKARTA, KOMPAS.com - Polemik tentang hukum pemilikan rumah tinggal atau hunian oleh orang asing tampaknya harus diakhiri.

Pasalnya, Presiden Joko Widodo (Jokowi) telah menandatangani Peraturan Pemerintah (PP) Nomor 103 Tahun 2015 tentang Pemilikan Rumah Tempat Tinggal atau Hunian oleh Orang Asing yang Berkedudukan di Indonesia pada Senin (22/12/2015).

Jokowi meneken PP tersebut berdasarkan pertimbangan untuk lebih memberikan kepastian hukum pemilikan rumah tempat tinggal atau hunian oleh orang asing yang berkedudukan di Indonesia.

Dalam PP itu disebutkan, yang dimaksud Orang Asing yang berkedudukan di Indonesia (selanjutnya disebut Orang Asing) adalah orang yang bukan Warga Negara Indonesia (WNI) yang keberadaannya memberikan manfaat, melakukan usaha, bekerja, atau berinvestasi di Indonesia.

“Orang Asing dapat memiliki rumah untuk tempat tinggal atau hunian dengan Hak Pakai,” bunyi Pasal 2 ayat (1) PP ini.

Orang Asing yang dapat memiliki rumah tempat tinggal atau hunian sebagaimana dimaksud adalah Orang Asing pemegang izin tinggal di Indonesia sesuai dengan ketentuan peraturan perundang-undangan.

Dalam hal Orang Asing meninggal dunia, menurut PP ini, rumah tempat tinggal atau hunian sebagaimana dimaksud dapat diwariskan. Ahli waris sebagaimana dimaksud harus mempunyai izin tinggal di Indonesia sesuai dengan ketentuan peraturan perundang-undangan.

PP ini juga menegaskan, bahwa WNI yang melaksanakan perkawinan dengan Orang Asing dapat memiliki hak atas tanah yang sama dengan WNI lainnya.

“Hak atas tanah sebagaimana dimaksud, bukan merupakan harta bersama yang dibuktikan dengan perjanjian pemisahan harta antara suami dan istri, yang dibuat dengan akta notaris,” bunyi Pasal 3 ayat (2) PP ini.


Jenis hunian

Adapun rumah tempat tinggal atau hunian yang dapat dimiliki oleh Orang Asing sebagaimana dimaksud merupakan:

a. Rumah Tunggal di atas tanah:
1. Hak Pakai; atau
2. Hak Pakai di atas Hak Milik yang dikuasai berdasarkan perjanjian pemberian Hak Pakai di atas Hak Milik dengan akta Pejabat Pembuat Akta Tanah.

b. Sarusun (satuan rumah susun) yang dibangun di atas bidang tanah Hak Pakai.


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Ilustrasi
Menurut PP ini, Rumah Tunggal di atas tanah Hak Pakai yang dapat dimiliki Orang Asing diberikan untuk jangka waktu 30 (tiga puluh) tahun, dan dapat diperpanjang untuk jangka waktu 20 (dua puluh) tahun.

Dalam hal jangka waktu perpanjangan sebagaimana dimaksud berakhir, Hak Pakai dapat diperbarui untuk jangka waktu 30 (tiga puluh) tahun.

Adapun Rumah Tunggal di atas tanah Hak Pakai di atas Hak Milik yang dikuasai berdasarkan perjanjian sebagaimana dimaksud diberikan Hak Pakai untuk jangka waktu yang disepakati tidak lebih lama dari 30 (tiga puluh) tahun.

Hak Pakai dapat diperpanjang untuk jangka waktu paling lama 20 (dua puluh) tahun sesuai kesepakatan dengan pemegang hak atas tanah, dan dapat diperbaharui untuk jangka waktu paling lama 30 (tiga puluh) tahun sesuai kesepakatan dengan pemegang hak atas tanah.

“Perpanjangan dan pembaharuan sebagaimana dimaksud dilaksanakan sepanjang Orang Asing masih memiliki izin tinggal di Indonesia,” bunyi Pasal 8 Peraturan Pemerintah Nomor 103 Tahun 2015 itu.


Wajib melepas

PP Nomor 103 Tahun 2015 ini juga menegaskan, apabila Orang Asing atau ahli waris yang merupakan Orang Asing yang memiliki rumah di atas tanah Hak Pakai atau berdasarkan perjanjian dengan pemegang hak atas tanah tidak lagi berkedudukan di Indonesia, dalam jangka waktu 1 (satu) tahun wajib melepaskan atau mengalihkan hak atas rumah dan tanahnya kepada pihak lain yang memenuhi syarat.



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Ilustrasi
Apabila dalam jangka waktu sebagaimana dimaksud (1 tahun) hak atas rumah dan tanahnya tersebut belum dilepaskan atau dialihkan kepada pihak lain yang memenuhi syarat, menurut PP ini, rumah dilelang oleh Negara, dalam hal dibangun di atas tanah Hak Pakai atas tanah Negara.

Rumah tersebut menjadi milik pemegang hak atas tanah yang bersangkutan, dalam hal rumah tersebut dibangun di atas tanah berdasarkan perjanjian sebagaimana dimaksud.

“Hasil lelang sebagaimana dimaksud pada ayat (2) huruf a menjadi hak dari bekas pemegang hak,” bunyi Pasal 10 ayat (3) PP ini.

Ketentuan lebih lanjut mengenai tata cara pemberian, pelepasan, atau pengalihan hak atas pemilikan rumah tempat tinggal atau hunian oleh Orang Asing, diatur dengan peraturan menteri/kepala badan yang menyelenggarakan urusan pemerintahan di bidang agraria.

Peraturan Pemerintah ini mulai berlaku pada tanggal diundangkan 28 Desember 2015, oleh Menteri Hukum dan HAM Yasonna H Laoly.

The most significant change here is that for the first time, foreigners will be able to pass on their Hak Pakai lease via inheritance. 

Personally I hope property laws in Indonesia, particularly here in Bali, do not loosen up too much.  As it is, even with the restrictions already in place, land speculation by foreigners has driven property values almost out of reach for many local Balinese.

I agree with Ubudian. I'd hate to see foreigners have the right to just go ahead and buy property so easily, especially landed property. Indonesia, particularly Bali would be sold off in a second. All my properties n Indonesia, well I can't really call them mine, are in my wife's name. I like the idea of foreigners being able to buy apartments but not landed property unless they are Indonesian citizens. But I think the minimum price should be set at around Rp1.5 miliar for apartments. I just think that Indonesia is such an attractive place to invest in property that opening it up to the world, especially when the rupiah can be so volatile, would be a serious mistake. So I am all for keeping property laws tight.