Can anyone tell me the pros and cons of the retirement visa and the 6 month visa.
If I choose to move to Bali on a 6 month visa will I have difficulty finding a long term rental.
The "six month" visa is usually a social visa (Social Budya)- but as far as I know, it allows you to stay for 2 months, then renew monthly up to a total of 6 months. There are certain conditions that would be best explained by a good agent, as requirements change all the time.
Some people here come on a VOA, extend it for a further 30 days, then nip of to Singapore for a visa run and re-enter with another VOA.
Neither the social visa, or VOA are really good if you have a stickler for a landlord, but many are prepared to overlook any residency requirements because they stand to make money. The risk for you is that you need to pay 12 months in advance for your villa lease - but is something goes wrong and you have difficulty re-entering, the landlord will simple keep the balance.
The Retirement Visa gives you 12 months, but again there are conditions attached, such as needing insurance, a sponsor (your agent can legally sponsor you, evidence of sufficient funds to live here for 12 months (minimum of 18,000 USD savings) etc. And of course, legally, you cannot work while in Indonesia. Also, living here for more than 182 days in any calendar year triggers a tax liability.
One alternative is a 12 month Multiple Entry Business Visa - but again this needs to be renewed every few months and may require you to do an occasional Visa Run.
Rules often change before the ink is dry on the previous rules, so you will get much conflicting advice from people here simply because everyone's residency conditions may well have been slightly different at the time they were processed.
My advice is to get a good agent who will guide you through the options and help you follow the sometimes intricate steps you need to take. They are worth every rupiah you pay them ...!
Thanks for that.
One thing puzzles me, I was not aware that my pension would be taxed in Bali. Is the pension taxed or is it other income?
I am tossing up between Thailand and Indonesia and I am not yet 100% positive but it seems that long term rental housing in Bali is almost the same as here in OZ. Would you agree, or am I just not seeing the right web page. In reality I could only find one estate agent that was not advertising holiday rentals.
The tax thing is tricky. Technically you pay tax in Indonesia on your world-wide income (same as in Australia). However, Indo and Aus have a bi-lateral tax treaty, meaning you cannot pay tax twice for the same income. Most people would keep their home country income confidential and not declare it to the Indo tax authorities for obvious reasons. If you are ever pinged in Indo for supposedly not declaring overseas income, your defence is that ex-Indonesian income is already being taxed, and therefore is not required to be declared. At the very worst, you just show a copy of your ATO Tax assessment which proves tax have been already paid in the country of origin, and the problem goes away.
Re accommodation prices - greed is rampant in Bali, whether it's expat house "owners" (foreigners, of course can't legally own land in Indonesia or local landlords. Costs vary dramatically according to location. Long-term rental in an area such as Seminyak tends to be expensive because the owner can get a lot for multiple short-term rentals, which drives up the asking price. It also depends on the style of place you want to live in - a Western-style villa with all the mod-cons, garden and swimming pool will set you back a lot more than a simple, older place without a pool.
Look at the Bali Advertiser classifieds to get an idea of prices vs location:baliadvertiser.biz
There are some reasonable small agents and house brokers around as well. Using the splashy high-profile companies generally means you only get to see the over-priced and badly built show-pieces that look great in magazines but are often nightmares to live in.
Best strategy for you is to come over for 2-3 weeks on a VOA and spend the time 1) attending to the residency permit requirements, and 2) getting to know some of the better local agents and looking around for suitable properties and locations.
You are a very help chap.
One more question. Approx what should one budget for two adults weekly household expense? I.e Groceries and cleaning etc. We would probably eat more local type food with maybe 25% western.
I am flying to Bali for a very quick look see on Friday 28th and leaving Monday 31st and want to try to suss out as much as I can but don't thing household expenses is something I will be able to do.
PS. Vyt is a name I have never heard before, what nationality would that be?
Weekly expenses! Now that is a "how long is a piece of string?" question! ;-)
You are required to agree to employ Indonesian staff when you get a stay permit, so you should factor this into the living expenses equation. It is helpful at least to have a pembantu (helper) to look after the day-to-day cleaning of the house. Most Bali places are open-plan, so they get dusty quickly with daily cleaning. Many people also employ a gardener (1-2 times per week for 2-3 hrs)and if you have a pool, a pool guy 2-3 times a week.
A pembantu will cost 1 - 1.2 million per month. Be prepared for many days off for ceremonies if she is a Balinese, or various Muslim holidays including a paid 2 week Idul Fitri holiday if she is from Java. Many employment agreements incorporate a 13 for 12 arrangement - i.e. at the end of 12 months, you pay an extra month's 'bonus'.
A pool guy will cost about 350,000 a month fro a small pool; more if your pool is big. Some pool guys include the cost of chemicals, some don't.
Gardener costs vary, depending on garden size, but rates are similar to pool guys.
You will probably need to pay a local to take away your garbage. This will be between 50,000 and 100,000 per month.
Water costs vary widely, depending on whether the villa water supply is from a well (in which case the cost is usually included in the villa lease)or from the water supply authorities. If on metered water, expect to pay 80,000 to 150,000 per month, but this depends on which of the local banjars (villages) are responsible for your water supply.
Electricity can be very expensive in Bali. I am lucky - my current villa has a pre-paid meter, so I buy pulsa (credits) and code the meter when it runs low. For me, living modestly, it costs about 350,000 per month - double or even triple that if I have guests that leave lights on and run the airconditioners in their rooms all the time. My previous villa had a 'normal' meter, and that one cost me about 2.5 million per month even with no-one else there.
Faster wifi internet (there really is no 'fast' internet in Bali) will cost about 600,000-900,000 per month plus installation of 2 million or so. This is the type with a roof-mounted antenna feeding a modem and wifi router. Alternatively, internet via the phone line is about 700,000-800,000 per month. If there is no landline at your chosen villa, be prepared to wait for up to 10 months for a line to become available, and even then you might be 'encouraged' to pay a large bribe to secure this.
Cable or satellite TV is another 600,000 - 800,000 per month if you must have international TV feeds.
Alcohol: Beer is cheap, but imported alcohol has suffered from the duty imposts imposed by the anti-alcohol Islamist lobby in Jakarta. Duty is 350%, plus taxes, so a typical bottle of Australian wine that costs $8 in Aus will set you back the equivalent of $35-50 here. Spirits are the same - a Johnny Walker Red Label costs close to $90 here. Local wines are ... well, basically undrinkable.
Food: You will get away with 20-30,000 for a meal in a cheap warung, 60,000 - 80,000 at a reasonable restaurant, and 200,000+ at the fancy high-end places where being seen is more important than the food. Drinks are extra. Many restaurants will also charge 10% service charge + 21% government tax on top of your bill, so check the menu before you choose.
Finally, you may be expected to donate to the local banjar from time to time as a goodwill gesture. This can become very important should you ever require the assistance of the local village heads in cases of theft, noisy neighbours, staff problems etc.
Hope that gives you something to plug into your budgetary spreadsheet ;-)
p.s. Vyt is a Lithuanian name - that is my original heritage.
Last edited by borborigmus (2011-02-07 07:32:42)
- Eko ChannelOne
- New member
- From: Kuta - Bali
- Registered: 2013-01-29
- Posts: 4
Borborigmus is correct, the 6 months visa is either Social Visa or Single Entry Business visa, the different between those two visas is on the sponsorship, Social visa sponsored by Indonesian Individual and Single entry Business Visa is sponsored by an Indonesian company.
You may apply for this visa at any Indonesian Embassy around the world, and the sponsor letter can be emailed to you by your sponsor or registered Indonesia visa agent.
Controlling your work or business online at your home is not considered as 'working' but if you do this at a commercial area then you can be accused that you've been working.
Please note that the social visa and or single entry business visa is valid for 180 days in total NOT 6 months, because in 1 month can be consisting of 31 days, is 6 x 30 days.
Last edited by Eko ChannelOne (2013-01-29 07:44:30)