Anybody living in Vilcabamba or Loja?

short cut wrote:

You can't lose with either of these cities. I would be more than happy to share my thoughts of Loja and Cuenca with you.

David

What are your favorite aspects of Cuenca...and of Loja, David?

This is funny.  I lived in Ocala for several months and then in the Ocala National Forest, on Lake George, for 10 years.  I loved the forest and especially liked finding and chopping firewood.   Only thing is, it was too damned hot in summer, and the oranges in the grove froze for five years in a row, imagine that!  But the forest is still a very special place.  I worked at the Salt Springs Grovery selling fried chicken and cigarettes after working in town a bit.  Quite a commute into town.

I have a query about Loja.  Is it true that there are no places with their own garden (green space) area?  That apartments and houses both are just in solid blocks, without private land?  This is to check on the possibility that Loja may not work out - need a garden and kiln-building area.

Cheers,
HelenPivoine

I have mentioned that I am leaning toward Loja for several reasons but have not made a definite
decision as of yet.In my case health care plays an important part of my decision.In my opinion Cuenca has the edge in that area. The cost of living is a little bit lower in Cuenca.Weather wise Loja has the edge here.8-10 degrees
warmer and less rain. Population , Loja is about 100,000 less than Cuenca and less expats ,much less. I am moving to Ecuador mainly for the culture.I would not want to live in an expat community,as I would like to live among the locals,
learn to speak Spanish(I can speak a little Spanish,but would like to speak fluently.)The people are very friendly to Americans in both cities ,probably a little more in Cuenca. One must understand that we are guests in their country and we must respect their culture and the people.They want us to mix in both of these.They appreciate it when the see us wanting to learn their language,study their culture, enjoy and appreciate the beauty of the country and it's people.
              If one decides to retire to Ecuador,make it for the right reasons,not because it's cheaper to live or because of the nice weather.These two factors are just a bonus if you put the culture and people first.I continue to learn more about both cities every day ,which makes our decision more difficult,but it is coming very soon.I will post our decision as soon as it's made.If there are any or specific questions you would like answered don't hesitate to ask.

May you have a glorious and sparkling day!!
David

short cut wrote:

If one decides to retire to Ecuador,make it for the right reasons,not because it's cheaper to live or because of the nice weather.

Individuals have their own reasons, or mix of reasons, for moving to Ecuador.

We are not here to judge a person for his or her reasons if weather or financial factors impact the decision to move here.

cccmedia in Quito

I'm not judging anyone cccmedia ,those are your words not mine.

short cut wrote:

One must understand that we are guests in their country and we must respect their culture and the people.

Yes, respect the culture and the people.

Also, tourists here on a T-3 stamp are guests in their country.  Visitors on non-immigrant tourist visas likewise are guests.

However...those of us who have lived here for years, learned the language, purchased a home here and obtained legal residency...many of us do not consider ourselves guests.

We are residents of Ecuador.

cccmedia in Quito

short cut wrote:

I'm not judging anyone cccmedia ,those are your words not mine.

.

I did not say you were judging anyone, short cut, those are your words not mine.

cccmedia in Quito

cccmedia wrote:

short cut wrote:

I'm not judging anyone cccmedia ,those are your words not mine.

.

I did not say you were judging anyone, short cut, those are your words not mine.

cccmedia in Quito

OK then I'll be the judge!  Seems to me each one of us has our own mix of reasons for our trajectory in life, expat or inpat, choice of profession, entertainment choices, where and how we want to live etc. etc. and certainly cheaper living and good weather can play a part!

Everyone is hereby allowed to have their own reasons, no matter how others may think.  Thus ruleth this honorable court.

Cuenca and Loja are worlds apart,  but the weather is not as different as you indicate. Loja has been quite cold lately. For healthcare reasons, Cuenca is a better choice. For aesthetics, Cuenca is prettier, unless you want to spend lots of time in the Podocarpus National Park. If you don't speak Spanish, Cuenca is a better choice; few people under the age of 16 speak English in Loja. For availability of things, Cuenca is far and above Loja. While I lived in Loja, if I had stayed, I would have moved to Cuenca. The Ecuadorian family I lived with was even thinking of moving. However, in the end, you might want to spend time in each before you decide. I would recommend for most people wanting to move to Ecuador, don't decide until you spend some time in each place you are considering. You are most unlikely to understand what a place is like until you spend time there. A good example is Vilcabama. Some people love it there. I think  this is the worst place in Ecuador even though the weather is ideal. Just goes to show you, you never know. But, the chances of finding a place you will love in Ecuador are pretty high. It just may take some time to find that place.

Joseph K wrote:

Vilcabamba. Some people love it there. I think this is the worst place in Ecuador even though the weather is ideal.

Joseph obviously has not spent time in and around the city of Lago Agrio ("Sour Lake"), in north-northeast Ecuador.

The area around the city has many ecological problems.  The rainforest has been all but obliterated in this region, and environmental degradation is severe, with catastrophic oil pollution.... 
  -- Wikipedia

I don't live in Loja, so I can only relate what I have been told by others. Most available rentals in Loja are in town and without yards. There are many houses for sale, but rentals are difficult to find now. However, there are lots of homes in the hill area surrounding Loja, and it might be possible to find a place there - if buying.

However, I do know that there are great rentals in Malacatos - about 39 miles further south. I was talking with a fellow the other day who had a wonderful three bedroom, 2 bath, 2-story house for rent there. It had a covered patio, a nice backyard and an enclosed area for a car - all for $300/mo.

Susan F.,

Tell him to save it for me.  Actually, it will likely be gone before I arrive - all depends on house sale etc.

It really sounds like different places affect different people in many (dare I say different) ways.  Lots to investigate.
Helen Pivoine

short cut wrote:

One must understand that we are guests in their country and we must respect their culture and the people.

No David. I am not a guest, and if I think some part of the culture sucks, I express it.

YES ,YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT WITH YOUR EXPLANATION CCC.I DID NOT KNOW THIS ON YOUR FIRST REPLY .SORRY ABOUT THE MISUNDERSTANDING

short cut wrote:

SORRY ABOUT THE MISUNDERSTANDING

Thanks, David, but, please, no shouting.

Great advise Joseph,
I am one of those that are trying to decide where,Cuenca OR Loja? My wife and I are visiting both Cuenca and
Loja In August so we will be able to decide after that.My wife is Ecuadorian,originally from Guayaquil. She prefers Cuenca because of the health care.I have a very bad heart problem.Thanks for your insight Joseph.

David

I definitely agree with Joseph's assessment; Cuenca will have more options for you if you need good medical care.  The fact that your wife is Ecuadorian would definitely help you in Loja, though.  Knowing Spanish--or actively learning it asap--is really essential for successful living in Loja, so if you can speak Spanish that is a plus.  The infrastructure for expats is well developed in Cuenca but not in Loja.    I also agree with your basic point about "responsible expatting"--thinking not only of how a move would benefit us, but of how our presence could impact the place we move to, and about how we can be good, contributing citizens regardless of where we choose to live.  I think the smaller the city, the bigger impact a large expat population would make on it.  Lojanos are nervous about too many expats moving in and changing their city, perhaps in a negative way, but they are very welcoming when they see people coming in with a respect for their culture and traditions and an ability--or visible effort--to speak Spanish.  I've had many long conversations with the locals there about this issue and wrote about it more extensively in my recent e-book, "Living Like a Local in Loja."  Some people completely fall in love with Loja (I did) but I have also talked to quite a few gringos who were miserable there, so it's all a matter of personal preference.  I am glad you plan to spend time in each place.  Good luck with your decision!  By the way, if you're visiting Loja in August be prepared for the huge celebration/pilrgimage that takes place from the 17th to 20th and attracts many thousands of people--it will likely be hard to find lodging during that time.

Lily Ann,
Thank you so much for your wonderful post to me.I agree with everything you said about Cuenca and especially
Loja. I also agree with your assessment of the locals and their feelings towards gringos.I also feel that once they know that you want to be a part of their culture and appreciate them and their way of life they will accept you with open arms.
           I can speak a little Spanish which would be a great asset to me.We are very aware of the celebration/ pilgrimage
and have made preparations for lodging during that time period,Thanks for the heads up.Thanks to you and Joseph
I'm sure we will make a logical decision which will be be in our best interest.We will keep you informed  of our visits and decision. Again, thank you for you insight and views

David

LilyAnn wrote:

The infrastructure for expats is well developed in Cuenca but not in Loja.

Welcome to the Ecuador forum, Lily Ann.

Does your comment on lack of Expat infrastructure in Loja primarily mean that you need to speak Spanish to get good service?  Or is there more to it than that?

cccmedia in Quito

Thanks for the welcome cccmedia!  What I mean is, in Cuenca there are a lot more resources for someone first coming into the country.  There is already a well-established expat community there, but in Loja there are almost none.  In Cuenca it's much easier to find housing (especially furnished if you're not ready to settle in permanently yet), people who speak English, more shopping options, more medical options, etc.   In Loja you can't really rely on anyone to help you get used to the culture, translate for you or anything like that because the expat community is so small.  You have to come prepared to assimilate into the culture and speak the language.  Lojanos resent people who do not integrate or respect the local culture--though they may be too polite to tell someone that to their face.  I've spoken with them enough, however, that I know for a fact that this is how many of them feel.  I have recorded interviews with them where they confirm this.  They *love* visitors/tourists but if you want to stay long-term you need to become a part of the local community.  Those who really want to be a part of the local culture will love Loja--it is a great place!  In Cuenca as I understand it it's quite possible to get by without ever learning much of the language, as many do.  So Spanish does have a lot to do with it--I think someone who can already speak at least some Spanish would have an advantage in either city, but especially in Loja.

One of the biggest problems in Loja right now is finding affordable rentals. Houses for sale are aplenty, but, with the influx of extranjeros, rental prices are rising quickly. Some close friends of mine will be arriving in three days, and they didn't secure a rental until just before their departure from the US. They got a 2/2 for $800 month. Forty miles south, in Malacatos, a 3/2 with a yard and garage goes for $300/month.

Wow, Susan--that is insane!  Is it at least furnished?   I have never seen an apartment that size advertised that high in Loja.  Hopefully the trend won't continue...Many of the locals wouldn't be able to live in their own city at that rate.

My understanding is that they found their apartment in an area called Rodriguez Witt. I have no idea of that is the correct spelling.

Hmmm...out-of-town Gringos securing an apartment a few days before the trip...probably over the Internet...

This all adds up to folks paying well-above-market rent.

Well, at least Rodríguez Witt is a very upscale area of town--there are lots of fancy places around that area.  Even so, while exploring that area on foot I remember walking by a house for rent for $600--and it was a very big house (though probably not furnished).  I agree with cccmedia--folks will probably pay more than necessary if they rent before arriving, particularly if it's last minute and they're giving off the vibes that they need a place urgently.  I recommend people set up with a temporary place for a little while at first (maybe an AirBnB apartment--and there are a few in Loja now) and then get to know the area firsthand and hunt around for a long-term place once they get there, maybe with the help of a local if their Spanish is still in its infancy...

LilyAnn and CC my friends had been working for months to get an apartment. A few days before the trip is when they found one! And these are not what a person might consider people new to Latin America. They moved to El Salvador in 2008, are fluent in Spanish and made a discovery trip to Loja 8 months ago. They have had friends searching (including a man from whom they had rented an apartment from Turnkey on their previous trip) and an agent, as well.

It might do all well to stay away from stereotyping others. It's easy to say "I recommend people set up with a temporary place for a little while at first " and, "it all adds up" when, in reality, it is even difficult to find those right now.

Facts should be had before generalizations are made.

Thanks for the clarification, Susan.  I'm kind of reeling from that, though--$800/month for a 2 bedroom place.  It just seems like a lot for Loja.  Maybe it's a good price in the rich part of town, though.  I've seen places listed in the classifieds in the area for a lot less than that, but of course I haven't seen the apartments in person so I don't know what level of quality they are...  A furnished 2/2 apartment at Apartamentos del Rio is $620/month--did they look into that?  We stayed at ADR for $600 (on a 2-month lease, paid up front) and everyone agreed that even that was way too much.   Local friends told us we should be paying closer to half that.  airbnb.com/rooms/2057321

The only thing I am sure of is that rates have been climbing for the last few months, and my friends have been searching for a long time with people helping them. I also hope they will find a better deal.

LilyAnn wrote:

I recommend people...get to know the area firsthand and hunt around for a long-term place once they get there, maybe with the help of a local...

Once upon a time on a cold, snowy, Northern coast, there lived an ageing Indian woman we'll call Madame X.

During the wintertime, the weather was especially bitter and aggravated her failing health.

But Madame X had a plan.

In the spring, she would move many thousands of miles South to a place that International Living magazine had reported to be one of the healthiest places on Earth -- Ecuador's Valley of Longevity.

She even had a trusted contact there in the Andean community of Vilcabamba.  "I have a friend there who is helping me," said Madame X, "so don't think I don't know what I'm doing."

She was delighted when she managed in advance to rent a place to live in Vilcabamba for only $200 a month.

When the snows cleared and May arrived, Madame X flew on multiple airplanes and finally arrived in Vilcabamba.  She looked forward to the mild weather and peaceful life.  The elderly women on her new street said the area was safe. "No one has ever had 1 little tiny weenie bit of trouble," said Madame X.

But there was a flaw in Madame's plans.  When she remotely rented in the 5,000-foot-high community, there was no way she could be certain how the high altitude and her troubled health would mix.

After her flight landed in Ecuador at 7,700 feet, her heart was beating so fast she could hardly breathe or keep from fainting.  She was experiencing massive headaches.

In Vilcabamba, her body was so stressed that she couldn't walk into the main part of town with the elderly women of her street without stopping to rest.  In the afternoons, she rested again.

She was hoping and praying that her body would miraculously adjust to the altitude over time, so she could continue to live at her new place in the highlands.

There is no happy ending to this story.  In fact, the ending cannot yet be written, because, you see, Madame X arrived in Vilcabamba only one week ago.

But perhaps there already is a moral to the story:  Lily Ann's advice to arrive in Ecuador first, get to know an area, and then choose where to rent.

Someone following such a path would greatly improve their chances of a happy result and avoid experiencing the plight of Madame X.

                                                            .

CCmedia, I understand why you believe this to be true, but some people want to come and have a place to rent while they are looking. You may not have done it this way, and I may not have done it this way, but some people do. No matter what you, I or anyone else might think, some people want to do it this way. I know a woman right now who is loving to Malacatos and doing it this way. I respect her right to do this. She plans on traveling around EC to find "her pplace".

My friends who have already rented their apartment in Loja scoped out Loja for a month and half before deciding to move there. They made friends and contacts during that time. They also priced furniture and appliances.

People learn in different ways. As for me, I respect a person learning in their own way even if I wouldn't do it the same way.

Susan:

I agree, but there are middle paths. I rented a place (in Quito) while still in the US. But it was a month-to-month rental, and I took it for two months.

It worked well for me -- those two months gave me time to get to know my surroundings and to search out a place where I was prepared to sign a longer lease.

That approach may not work for everyone, but I offer it as a suggested way to have an assured place to settle upon arrival without being locked into a long commitment.

BobH, there are many paths, indeed. My friend who is renting in Malacatos is doing that very thing. That was the point of my last post.

Hi - Great information in this thread. I am in the early stages of my research and am considering Loja as well as Cuenca. My wife and I are very active and want to keep it up for as long as we can. We hike and bike, lift weights, etc. We don't necessarily want or need a large expat community. We (like many of you, I suspect) are financially secure which brings me to my question. I see that most folks are focused on rentals. We would like to by a home in the Equadorian town of our choice as early in the process as possible (renting for six monthsto find an ideal spot is certainly acceptable). Are their homes available in Loja for instance (2000 sq ft an acre or two) at a reasonable price? Or should we consider buying land and buikding? That process seems potentially rife with pitfalls! Thanks!

iwstamp wrote:

should we consider buying land and building? That process seems potentially rife with pitfalls!

You got that right.

The cautionary tale told lately on this forum and their website was the couple from the U.S. who bought land on the north coast and tried to build a hotel.

They were new in town and had read the International Living guide to buying overseas real estate, three times.  That turned out not to be sufficient preparation in their case.

What with the weather-related swampiness on their lot, the unreliable maestro or general contractor, the governmental tramités and unrevealed "personal" problems, they succeeded in completing only the building shell and one room.  Last we heard a few months ago, they (or the remaining partner; that part wasn't clearly explained) were seeking to sell the shell and the partially cleared land for -- wait for it -- 1.25 million dollars.  In other words, they were whistlin' Dixie.

Don't buy or build on land in Ecuador during your first year in the target area. 

Simply trying to adjust to high altitudes could turn your plans on their head.

For more on the Misadventures of Luna2 on Ecuador's Northern Coast, follow this link to the 'Hotel for Sale' thread....

https://www.expat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=454463


cccmedia in Quito

I agree with CCMedia for the most part, although not all early purchases turn out to be mistakes. I bought my house on my first trip, and I love it. However, most houses you find will not be old adobes that have been gutted to meet western standards. I am an exception to the rule.

I would suggest you start following the Facebook pages: "Loja Expat Exchange" and "Loja, Ecuador for English Speakers". The admins on those pages provide a fount of information for the new Loja resident. I have some friends who just landed in Loja, and they managed it all from the information and advice from both of these pages.

Good luck on your adventure.

Hello all! Thank you for adding me to your group! I have been reading for hours (and learning lots) all the marvelous information so many have to share. Here is a little background on us and any/all info offered is much appreciated as we continue to learn about our new future home.
My husband and I are Hispanic (Cuba & Argentina respectively) so thankfully language is not an obstacle. We live in Florida, USA and are VERY interested in moving to the Loja, Vilca, Malacatos area within the next year or so. We are looking for 20+ acres as having lots of land, peaceful surroundings and beautiful vistas are what we're after. As much as I've read and learned there's nothing like being there. So...that said, I just booked our 2 week vacation beginning July 9-23! I realize it's not a lot of time, but as a school teacher (I'm also a graduate jeweler) it's when I'm able to take the trip and about all the time I can spare this year. Last day of school here today!
Naturally, I have a ton of questions so we are able to make the best use of our time while there. I am currently making notes as to some general questions I am hoping to get answered. In the meantime, from all my reading thus far, I'd like to ask Susan F. if I can get in touch with you directly through email to ask specific questions I think you can help us with. Can't wait to hear back from you. Thanks!

Hi, and congratulations on ending another school year. I retired from teaching almost one year ago to the day!

I will send you a message and we can connect!

Dan, I've been trying to find the best place to move where organic food is readily available (no pesticides and animals that graze and don't eat GM feed from the US).  I heard Vilcabamba was the place.  So, they DON'T have organic food there?

Organic Mom,

I live 10 minutes outside of Vilcabamba, and I can assure you that organic food is everywhere in the area.

Up until the recent surge in foreigners to Souther Ecuador, this area was the poorest area in EC. And, because of this poverty, the local farmers were unable to afford either man-made fertilizer or insecticides. This has left much of the local land free from chemicals and other manmade additives. With the upswing of so many people in the area, organic foods are something that have drawn many to the area.

Check out the many YouTube videos on the organic land, raw food movements and the like that are no thriving in the area.