Hello

I wish you success.

However, that will come at a price. You would need to be present on the premises for virtually 24 hours a day to ensure that you are not cheated by your staff and that they don't steal you out of house and home. This is inevitable and you will lose a lot of money through fraud and theft. Eventually you will find people you might be able to trust more or less.

Mmmm.... Thanks for the welcome and the positive attitude.   Very reassuring.

I'm being realistic. I hope that's a welcome thing for you. If not and you are wearing rose-tinted spectacles then you are heading for a very nasty fall and possible bankruptcy.

By the way, has any one of your contacts or "friends" in Marrakech told you that the bottom is crashing out of the property market? This is just about the worst time to be investing there.

Shahbazkazmi wrote:

Hi Melinda
I am Shabz I have been working as a concierge for last 18 years currently working in London canar wharf area I just got engaged to a lovely girl in Rabat I am thinking to move to Morocco in near future and hope to find a work there if you interested please feel free to get intouch I can provide you references thanks

You are extremely unlikely to get any job in Morocco. As a foreigner, you need to be authorised by the Anapec (the government's employment quango) who must certify you as having a skill and ability that no Moroccan at all has before you can work. As a concierge, you have absolutely no chance at all.

Thanks Shabaz. I will keep that in mind,  congratulations on your engagement.

Melinda Dobbs wrote:

Thanks Shabaz. I will keep that in mind,  congratulations on your engagement.

Hi Melinda.

Do you have any ideas about the labour laws in Morocco? You will not be able to employ him.

No idea at all in sorry. The people employed in the riad I am purchasing are all moroccon.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/trave … k-ten.html

SvenStockholm wrote:

I wish you success.

However, that will come at a price. You would need to be present on the premises for virtually 24 hours a day to ensure that you are not cheated by your staff and that they don't steal you out of house and home. This is inevitable and you will lose a lot of money through fraud and theft. Eventually you will find people you might be able to trust more or less.

If you don't start putting on rose-tinted spectacles, and quick, you will meet the same fate as I and many did - Ban. We were a little too frank for our own good. Unfortunately it's not appreciated by neither members nor moderators, who judge us as nothing more than "miserable gits" who don't have anything better to say. I will put mine on so I will be viewed in a different light.

To the poster - No-one will cheat you! Fraud? Theft? In Morocco? I don't know what he is talking about(!)

Melinda Dobbs wrote:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-3009008/Marrakech-named-world-s-best-destination-TripAdvisor-London-ranks-sixth-Prague-Hanoi-New-York-fails-crack-ten.html

Just a few of the comments on that thread:

"We went to Marrakech last year as the first point on our tour of Morroco. It is awful. Non-stop hassle from locals, the kids were the worst. We very quickly learned that to make eye contact was fatal. We spent too days in Marrakech and then left. "

"Marrakech was horrid. I was in the exact souk that is in the first picture. Beggars, starving dogs, restaurant food covered in flies before you ordered it. Awful. But the people were great!"

"Continual beggars that won't take no for an answer and that follow you around can spoil a trip."

"I went to Marrakech for 4 days and I couldn't wait to leave; I felt unsafe, it's dirty and we were hustled everywhere we went because everyone is so aggressive. Have fun with that."

I'm sorry you had that experience.  I have never felt unsafe.  I have never been really hassled. Once I say no and keep walking they leave me alone.  I have also never been sick here. As I always say, I can sick anywhere in the world, including a five star restaurant.  It happens.

I'm assuming you are from England.

Melinda Dobbs wrote:

I'm sorry you had that experience.  I have never felt unsafe.  I have never been really hassled. Once I say no and keep walking they leave me alone.  I have also never been sick here. As I always say, I can sick anywhere in the world, including a five star restaurant.  It happens.

4 visits isn't enough to reach an accurate conclusion. Maybe things will be different & clearer to you by the 10th visit or so. Some people who relocate there, end up moving back. That's because they didn't have enough time during their visits to see everything, and only realize things later on when they have more time. I came across a lot of people who come back from the country, and want to settle there because they loved it. Or so they thought. When they settle down, and the time comes to get serious, they see it very differently when they have to start dealing with important issues, needless to say.

Thank you all for your supportive posts. Somehow I don't think this is the forum for me as it seems that non expats are members. Not sure that an expat forum is for people not actually living in Marrakech or Morocco.

And maybe just a few days was not enough.

Melinda Dobbs wrote:

Thank you all for your supportive posts. Somehow I don't think this is the forum for me as it seems that non expats are members. Not sure that an expat forum is for people not actually living in Marrakech or Morocco.

That's because they returned back after realizing things are not the same as it is when you're on holiday. Which is obvious to anyone who prepares and doesn't do things based on how they are treated, but many fail to see it until it's too late. Good-luck.

hi and welcome

I have been reading and there are some opinions extremely extreme...

1: the enterprise needs to post an advertisement in a journal requiring for the an employee and the  post.
2 It should be for a month but into the 15 days later you as entrepreneur can go to ANAPEC with the cv of the person you have chosen. Yes there is a law, but they know how to jump over it.... like anyone else in their  own country.... In the requirements you can precise exactly something that the person "is able to" or "has" ...and noone else has... for example: could be in experienced, could be in languages, could be in courses.... just a  little detail can make the person be employed.
3. ANAPEC will check it and will require you the reasons.
4. ANAPEC will accept or reject

I'm sorry you sound so bitter. I'm quite sure that my last few months living here has been  a useful indication to how life is here in Marrakech.  Thanks for your input after your spending just a few short days in this beautiful exotic city.

Melinda Dobbs wrote:

I'm sorry you sound so bitter. I'm quite sure that my last few months living here has been  a useful indication to how life is here in Marrakech.  Thanks for your input after your spending just a few short days in this beautiful exotic city.

A few days? God, you have a lot to learn. You're coming from the other-side of the world, don't have anything in common with Morocco, from a well-known wealthy nation, white, and judged to be rich. It's obvious you're going to get treated "nicely". Some people don't even know why they get treated like that, until they hit upon disaster, and find out the answer the hard way. As I said - for the second time - goodluck. You clearly will be needing a lot of it.

Can I ask you why you are a member of an Expat.com?  Why would you bother if you hate the place so much?

Look. Ask yourself why there are so many members of the Moroccan Expat-Blog who are Moroccan. I can assure you that the Swedish expat forum is not infested with Swedes offering "help" or "culture exchange". The people on the Swedish, Norwegian, Finnish forums are people who have moved or are going to move to those countries. Does this not say something to you? Only today I got a PM from a Moroccan prostitute who wanted to "meet up" with me. She was a "New Member".

Your failure to see that people in poor countries are going to cheat you rotten augurs ill for your proposed business. This happens to rich, white people all over the world. That you think that everyone is genuine and "nice" is a huge handicap to your being able to make any money at all from your venture.

In the developing country I lived in before, there was an acceptance that lying, especially to make money, is nothing to be ashamed of, it's actually part of the culture. It's even more acceptable to lie to infidels like us and cheat them. I am coming to live in Morocco in just over a month. I've researched the threads here as well as on other sites and this is a far worse problem in Morocco. I preface all of my questions on the forum with a demand that locals who have just joined don't bother to offer "help". They simply want to "help" me pour money into their pockets. Please start off with the attitude that you don't believe a thing you are told until you can verify that it is true. And even then check it out properly. If you don't do this, you are heading to an enormous fall.

Why are the people selling the riad to you? Can't they make it work? Are their employees cheating them? Is it in a bad area? Have you seen the independently audited books? How much income did they generate last year? How much was profit? Do you feel easy with the employees?

Please step back for a moment and ask some serious questions. Ask them of yourself too.

Melinda Dobbs wrote:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-3009008/Marrakech-named-world-s-best-destination-TripAdvisor-London-ranks-sixth-Prague-Hanoi-New-York-fails-crack-ten.html

For goodness sake. This article from a trashy UK newspaper says nothing about property prices. Did you think that I would not know about its reputation because I am Swedish?  I am telling you that house prices are falling all over Morocco, especially in Marrakech and Agadir. You are buying at exactly the wrong time. Why are the people selling you the riad getting rid of it? They want to cut their losses, it's clear.

They are getting divorced.  And I think you are just a racist.

As with any country, city or town. There are people that will try to take advantage of a new comer, there are also good people that will help and guide you. Do be careful, but do not be put off by someone who clearly had a bad experience and now thinks that this is all Morocco has to offer. Bribes and back handers are part if the culture, but are usually not excessive and can help smooth the way through the red tape.
Speak to other Riad owners who will be only too pleased to help and advise over a glass if mint tea. Time to network. Knock on doors, search the internet. There are many others that have been through the process.
Its not all doom and gloom as many successful Riad owners will testify.
I do hope things work out for you.

Thank you Doug.  No... I do not think it is all doom and gloom.  I'm very excited and love living in this beautiful city.  Every culture has it's people who will try to take advantage of newcomers.  It's the way of the world these days. 

Thanks for your advice.  I will be doing all of that this week.  Cheers.

DougElliott wrote:

Its not all doom and gloom as many successful Riad owners will testify.

It isn't. But I bet every single one of those successful riad owners got heavily ripped off at the start and if they hadn't opened their eyes, would have lost everything.

As for the comments from the OP. "Racist"? No realist. You need to wise up.

The owners are divorcing? Well, that's an auspicious start.

As for a bad experience in Morocco, I haven't been there yet. But I can see that it's going to be similar to my other couple of placements, actually, probably even more extreme.

I suggest you visit Morocco with open eyes and enjoy the experience of a wonderful culture.  Their divorce has nothing to do with their selling of their assets. That is normal in any divorce as I well know. I do hope you don't come to Morocco already having decided that is a dreadful place. It is wonderful, colourful and the people are kind and gentle.  Enjoy it for it's diverse and beautiful culture.  And I do think you wrong in saying all new riad owners get ripped off. I think that is very narrow minded. Anyone can be a success if they are positive and work hard. Being negative is not the way to start out on a new adventure.

Hi Melinda!

I don't usually post on these discussions, but wanted to add some positivity in here.

I've been living in Marrakech for 6 months. Yes there are negatives and yes there are positives. Such is life. We all move here to get something different - that is what we achieve.

I had been here merely once before I moved, years ago. I do not think that makes me unqualified to judge if it was the best decision or not. People have always moved across the world on whims, with ideas in their heads of what to expect. It may not always work like this, but as I said. Such is life.

Business will be difficult for you here. Of course it will. It always is, but especially as you will be operating in a whole new realm of business theory. So you'll learn. It may fail, hopefully not. But you have to try.

In terms of doing things 'by the books'....that means nothing in Morocco. This website is full of people saying it is impossible to work or to hire people that do not have the paperwork. I am not giving advice in any way, but the reality is that many foreigners work anyway and leave the country every 3 months to renew their visa. This is known by the authorities, and is generally fine. People do it for years.

So good luck in your adventures. And let's please all remember, migrants have been part of the global community forever. Lets get off our elite 'expat' pedestal and appreciate what our new homes have to offer.

Thank you for your message.  I'm very much enjoying the experience so far. In three or four years time who knows how I will feel. I've done the expat thing in Singapore for five years and that was also hard. I don't think anyone expects it to be easy. It is a lifestyle change that hopefully I will love.  Time will tell.  Thanks for your input.  Cheers.

SvenStockholm wrote:

DougElliott wrote:

Its not all doom and gloom as many successful Riad owners will testify.

As for the comments from the OP. "Racist"? No realist. You need to wise up.

Talking of racism...Tell that to the Sub-Saharan Africans who regularly get beaten up and treated disgracefully in Morocco simply for being black. Absolutely disgusting what I saw first hand.

I think this is not an appropriate place to talk about politics and politicians. ... There is a person who has shared about some business she is going to front ...and I am only reading things that I simply don't love. I am here for 6 years...I am foreigner...I am expat. And I have suffered the worst and enjoyed the best. I found good people and not so good.
I suppose she is not doing this if she hadn't have a lawyer. This is the first, who can guide her.

I am not going to talk about if u racist or not cos I cant judge no one but what you are doing is attacking continuously this country and its people. I am not sure about the purpose...whiich makes me think a lot since it seems you have never been here.

We have different cultures , that's right....that people could cheat ...that's right....that is what has been happening in Europe with the price of everything...."speculation" and u can see the results.

There are many people from abroad working here....it is not easy ..sure...but not impossible.

Just choose a good lawyer...and ask also in case of divorce if they can sell and if it is going to affect you ...firstly cos could be possible that it belongs to one....and the other could have part and requires it......and second both are partners both can sell.

Once you have it ....incha allah, just simply get in contact with tourism companies.....in this sense I can help you cos I know some of them.... maybe you could deal with them for package of whatever....for the future...


So, stay positive....which is the best way to start....listen the advices ....and just pay attention to all around this business u are going to start.


good luck and god bless your new project.

Thank you. A good reply.

Lol. You guys are Europeans/Australians, non-Muslims, have nothing at all in common with the country, apart from at most, if anything - French? I've been to the country more than the thread-starter. My roots are both North Africa/Sub-Sahara, unlike you guys from other continents. I speak the language, and some of the things I've heard aimed towards expats such as yourselves, I would rather not repeat on a public forum. Many of them take you for mugs. They just won't dare say it to your face, as you have something to offer the country, coming with a lot of money, unlike those poor black-Africans who don't, hence why they are happy to show their true colors towards them. If you came and made it clear you're penniless, and have nothing, you will have a very different experience. Try asking for financial help, and see how far you get, and how "nice" they continue to be. There is some truth in what someone above said - "it's even more acceptable to lie to infidels like us and cheat them". Not only there, but in other countries as well in the region. I've advised many people on other forums, such as my own country's one, but my comments were deleted. In fact, well over 100 of my posts have been removed from both this forum, and others. I've noticed that people who advise others to go ahead, and to ignore "negative" people, are totally clueless about the culture, have more money than sense, and don't realize how their experience in the country is connected to the deepness of their pockets. I know for sure they won't come back and admit I was right. But that doesn't bother me, as I know I'm right, judging from the continous threads that pop-up all over the internet - marriage scam, business scam, and other financial losses. There is even documentaries about it if people cared to inform themselves. Don't let reality get in the way of your dreams.

Dear All,

A kind reminder that the initiator's post is to gather people's experiences they have had in Marrakech.

Some of the messages are going off topic. There seem to be personal attack or judgemental comments.

Let's all respect each other here and contribute positively on this discussion.

Thanks & Regards

Mishna

I am muslim ....by the way

I am muslim by the way....I visited the country 17 years ago....alone with my car...from tanger to dakhla.  when my kids grew up and married or lived their own I came here...first 7 years ago....I visited an old friend and his family in boujdour....I spent for a month there.....and later I finally came to start again in the country I know well and its people ...and my religion....


so.... then??? what did you say????? please....you judge very quickly....what do you know about us????? that we are Europeans???? Australians???.....and???? please....

You look Moroccon, and probably are mistaken for one. So you blend in easily, unlike others who stick out like a sore-thumb.

I am almost 6ft tall, with very pale skin and red hair. I should stick out like a sore thumb. But I like to think I stand out. I have been told I look like the queen! haha