Dutch native speaking looking for a job

Welcome to the forum Danny.

You may better edit your post since your service teaching classes is illegal.

I don't believe that you have a work permit to do so hence you intend to earn money and if get caught you will have serious problems.

You should not display personal contact details on the forum it can harm you more than doing good.

Cheers

Hello Miss/MR (your name?)

I can see you assume i do illigal things without even knowing the rules.
1) I am Married and have a marriage KITAS. This allows me to work/start own business, without any limitation of making money.

2) I also see other people on this forum doing the same.

If you not believe it, i could even send the proof and also the proof if the law, which states I am allowed to work to provide my family, with all the details.

Regards

Danny

Danny, I think what you're discussing is specifically called a KITAP which some folks generically call “a marriage KITAS” as it is the Indonesian spouse who sponsors the foreign spouse.  The foreign spouse of a mixed marriage couple in Indonesia is eligible for a KITAP after two years of marriage (and presumed residency in Indonesia).

Once on a KITAP I have heard various interpretations of the law (which is not very specific) concerning what sort of work the KITAP holder can legally do without a work permit (IMTA). 

At the immigration sources that I have historically relied on (because they run various immigration offices) the eligible work is restricted to the foreign spouse (KITAP holder) working with his or her Indonesian spouse in the conduct of the Indonesian spouse's business.  It does not allow, so I am told, for that KITAP holder to work on their own (freelance), nor to work for another employer.

If indeed you have this “proof" that what I write in the above paragraph is wrong, and that in fact, a KITAP holder has the right to “work/start own business, without any limitation of making money” then by all means, please provide that proof. 

I can assure you that if you have such proof, it will be greatly welcomed.

DannyJakarta wrote:

Hello Miss/MR (your name?)

I can see you assume i do illigal things without even knowing the rules.
1) I am Married and have a marriage KITAS. This allows me to work/start own business, without any limitation of making money.

"This is absolutely wrong !!

You may be allowed to support your family assuming your spouse has some small own business.

With a spouse sponsored KITAS you are not allowed to work except you have a work permit which you only can get if sponsored by a company. There is no such regulation which allows you making money without limitation.

Are you paying the DPKK or would you pay tax on your income ?"

2) I also see other people on this forum doing the same.

"That's true, there a a lot of foreigners doing so but most are not aware of the Manpower law or just don't mind taking risks."

If you not believe it, i could even send the proof and also the proof if the law, which states I am allowed to work to provide my family, with all the details.

"Please provide us with the law where it ist stated that you can work and earn money without limitation on a spouse sponsored KITAS"


Regards

Danny

DannyJakarta wrote:

Hello Miss/MR (your name?)

I can see you assume i do illigal things without even knowing the rules.
1) I am Married and have a marriage KITAS. This allows me to work/start own business, without any limitation of making money.

2) I also see other people on this forum doing the same.

If you not believe it, i could even send the proof and also the proof if the law, which states I am allowed to work to provide my family, with all the details.

Regards

Danny

Actually, you aren't allowed to work with a wife sponsored KITAS.
A KITAP will allow a small business, but the KITAS will not, at least not without a work permit.
If you've been married for greater than two years, you can convert to KITAP, and run your school legally.
Good luck.

No it is not called KITAP, it is called Kitas Nikah. A Marriage Kitas.
The rules are clear. In the law it is written.

You said before you will send/provide the proof.

Would be great if you may can do so.

Read here Danny:

http://www.indosight.com/blog/kitas-spo … an-spouse/

Note well:

“Unfortunately, you will not be able to work with this visa.”

Your so called KITAS Nikah (nowhere can I find it being called that) is simply a wife sponsored KITAS visa…not even at KITAP level. 

If you think you can work on that visa you are sadly mistaken, and you also will not be able to provide any law or regulation which states otherwise because, quite simply, no such law or regulation exists. 

So, back to Tom's original post (happyhour), your proposed teaching operation is indeed illegal.

Fred, even if one will get a spouse sponsored KITAP you can not just run a school.

There are more legal steps to be taken, various departments involved to get licenses etc.

If it would be so easy once obtaining a spouse sponsored KITAP all would do so no matter if running a school or doing some other sort of business.

Even with a KITAP you can not earn directly money without work permit basically.

If it would be all so easy all KITAP holder (spouse sponsored) would be able to generate huge money without paying DPKK and taxes.

That's why Depnaker / Immigration have different point of views thus there is no law covering it up.

Danny, why you not just check directly with Depnaker, tell about your visa status and your plan to give classes and earn a lot of money without work permit

Pasal 61
Pemegang Izin Tinggal terbatas sebagaimana dimaksud dalam Pasal 52 huruf e dan huruf f dan pemegang Izin Tinggal Tetap sebagaimana dimaksud dalam Pasal 54 ayat (1) huruf b dan huruf d dapat melakukan pekerjaan dan/atau usaha untuk memenuhi kebutuhan hidup dan/atau keluarganya.

So you still not posted my topic? I already asked the immigration myself and he said it is true. So nothing illegal. I would apprciate it, if you do your homework, before you make a judgement that it is illigal.

Danny, whilst the advice of other forum members is  built on direct experience and knowledge since they have been living here for many years, this does not mean you need to follow their advice and information. They are simply trying to warn you against the risks of what they consider to be illegal.
Personally I wish you all the best and hope you succeed in your venture. And if you dont get break the law in persuing it more so the better. If you are then let's hope you not only dont get caught and therefore face prison time, hefty fines and deportation and also being split from your family which which would be terrible but to also make life harder for those living here legally doing all they can to work and reside within the law because you never.

Danny, as Luke has written, and alluded to, there is nothing more that a lot of expats, (including many who regularly post here), would like to see than expats in mixed marriages with Indonesians having the total freedom to work, open businesses and otherwise financially provide for their families without the many encumbrances they now face.  We have done our homework…far more than you apparently and for some of us, over many long years.     

The article of the law you quote translates as follows:

Article 61

”Limited stay permit holder referred to in Article 52 letter e and f and Permanent Stay Permit holders as referred to in Article 54 paragraph (1) letter b and d can do the job and / or attempt to meet the needs of life and / or family.”

As we have been discussing repeatedly here on this topic string, the law is vague as it does not specifically state that working (“do the job”) means employment or working without a work permit.  It simply states their eligibility.   

Furthermore it is the Ministry of Manpower Development which is in control of providing the regulations regarding employment or income producing work and there are NO regulations currently issued which would allow for an expat under a spouse sponsored visa to work, or operate a business without a work permit…period…and there is no vagueness about that.  It is the regulations that are important here Danny…as it is up to the various Ministries to interpret the laws passed by the DPR and ratified, and define the specific procedures to be followed.  But hey, don't take our word for it…just ask an Indonesian attorney. 

There is no need to lash out at us, because as I said, we would love it if what you erroneously think is true, were true…but it isn't.

And just so you know, deportations in Indonesia last year (2014) for reasons relating to illegal employment or work activities were at record levels, far exceeding the number of similar deportations in prior years.  And trust me, just because a foreigner has an Indonesian spouse, they are subject to, have been in the past, and will continue to be deported. 

Obviously from where we sit you can do whatever you want, and hopefully it will never be a problem for you, but some of us don't like to see misinformation being provided on this forum which could easily jeopardize someone else who takes that misinformation as gospel.

Good luck and best wishes.

DannyJakarta wrote:

Pasal 61
Pemegang Izin Tinggal terbatas sebagaimana dimaksud dalam Pasal 52 huruf e dan huruf f dan pemegang Izin Tinggal Tetap sebagaimana dimaksud dalam Pasal 54 ayat (1) huruf b dan huruf d dapat melakukan pekerjaan dan/atau usaha untuk memenuhi kebutuhan hidup dan/atau keluarganya.

So you still not posted my topic? I already asked the immigration myself and he said it is true. So nothing illegal. I would apprciate it, if you do your homework, before you make a judgement that it is illigal.

It's obvious that you don't do your homework.

Above is NOT saying that you don't need a work permit also not saying that you "can start/work your own business without any limitation of making money" as you clearly said.

It's not the Immigration but the Manpower you will have to deal with, so you should be very careful advertising your classes and your fee in public.

You will need to have a work permit, period.

Other points already highlighted by Roy and Luke.

Danny, just so you know, there is a perfectly legal (although more expensive) solution to your situation.  That would be for your wife to establish a PT company for your teaching and counseling services, and under that PT, you would be sponsored for both your KITAS and work permit (IMTA).

DannyJakarta wrote:

Pasal 61
Pemegang Izin Tinggal terbatas sebagaimana dimaksud dalam Pasal 52 huruf e dan huruf f dan pemegang Izin Tinggal Tetap sebagaimana dimaksud dalam Pasal 54 ayat (1) huruf b dan huruf d dapat melakukan pekerjaan dan/atau usaha untuk memenuhi kebutuhan hidup dan/atau keluarganya.

So you still not posted my topic? I already asked the immigration myself and he said it is true. So nothing illegal. I would apprciate it, if you do your homework, before you make a judgement that it is illigal.

That applies to KITAP holders, NOT KITAS holders.
If you hold a KITAS, pasal 61 does not apply.

Hi everybody,

This is just to inform you that some inappropriate posts have been removed from this topic.

Thanks

Priscilla