An Influx to EC From a So. American Country Where It's All Gone Wrong

Funny how it goes, back home you guys want the doors slammed shut and the walls built up. You move away to another country and want the same thing done there too. Go figure.

And you draw that conclusion from where?  Don't read that anywhere or even see it implied vis a vi Ecuador.

You are joking, aren't you. The news reports are full of the bitching and complaining about Obama's plan to legalize all the illegals that are currently in the USA (mostly Mexicans). Everybody and his dog screaming for tighter controls. Your homeland hasn't exactly earned itself the reputation as being the most foreigner friendly in the world.

Imagine if the Ecuadorans were as xenophobic as the average American, where would you guys all be living right now?

mugtech wrote:

Even at their current rate of extraction they will have plenty of oil for many years
Perhaps they see the handwriting on the wall concerning other forms of energy.
Perhaps they decided the demand will drop 20 years from now, might as well sell what they can.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sns-wp-bl … story.html

James wrote:

You are joking, aren't you. The news reports are full of the bitching and complaining about Obama's plan to legalize all the illegals that are currently in the USA (mostly Mexicans). Everybody and his dog screaming for tighter controls. Your homeland hasn't exactly earned itself the reputation as being the most foreigner friendly in the world.

Imagine if the Ecuadorans were as xenophobic as the average American, where would you guys all be living right now?

For a second, I thought I was seeing the reincarnation of wjwoodard from Brazil. I realize now it is wjwoodard.

James wrote:

pensionado wrote:

- we are all looking forward to cheaper places to retire.f

Bang on target pensionado! Since all indicators are that those who are going to make the leap from Venezuela are of exactly the same ilk as the Americans who have been flocking to Ecuador for years now. So why shouldn't they come and be welcome? Maybe Correa SHOULD shut the doors, for everybody, including those from the USA. Whould that be satisfactory???

Or they could go to Brazil

Nards Barley wrote:

For a second, I thought I was seeing the reincarnation of wjwoodard from Brazil. I realize now it is wjwoodard.

Careful Nards, they might make you go take a time out in the corner for a day or two again. Remember what happened last time when you challenged the system? Or rather certain individuals.

j600rr wrote:

Nards Barley wrote:

For a second, I thought I was seeing the reincarnation of wjwoodard from Brazil. I realize now it is wjwoodard.

Careful Nards, they might make you go take a time out in the corner for a day or two again. Remember what happened last time when you challenged the system? Or rather certain individuals.

Wjwoodard´s powers are limited. He can´t ban the Ecuador money train(me) for more than a few hours.

pensionado wrote:

ok, mugtech
cheap shot about the boring part, trust you have never visited...or watched hockey or ever played our national sport, lacrosse. Maybe a dose of bannock and beans would set ya straight.
peace out

I have seen in person the Phila Flyers, Hershey Bears, and next week the Allentown Phantoms.  Also caught the Reading Royals 5 years ago.  Hockey players are the toughest athletes I know, but the game is just soccer on ice, actually better than soccer, but not all that exciting.  I have seen lacrosse on the college level, first introduced to me when Jim Brown played for Syracuse.  Both Jim Brown and I prefer USA football to lacrosse.  I have retired from playing sports, more interested in music, like the Arrogant Worms playing with a symphony orchestra in Edmonton. I can do without Celine Dion, prefer Dion and the Belmonts.

James wrote:

You are joking, aren't you. The news reports are full of the bitching and complaining about Obama's plan to legalize all the illegals that are currently in the USA (mostly Mexicans). Everybody and his dog screaming for tighter controls.

So you get all your info from Faux News
No one is saying Ecuador should change their immigration policies
They are just saying they should enforce them, or poor refugees are going to lower the wages for the people already legally in Ecuador.
Does Brazil, who specializes in hiding war criminals, want the refugees from Ven.?

James wrote:

pensionado wrote:

- we are all looking forward to cheaper places to retire.f

Bang on target pensionado! Since all indicators are that those who are going to make the leap from Venezuela are of exactly the same ilk as the Americans who have been flocking to Ecuador for years now.

You think people fleeing Venezuela will qualify for perm res visas?
Why would you think that?  Where did you get those stats?
Don't you realize that Venezuelans are also Americans?
They are South Americans, but Americans none the less.
How many USA citizens are living in Ecuador illegally, that is, did not get a proper visa?
Exactly the same ilk?  What does that mean?

James wrote:

pensionado wrote:

- we are all looking forward to cheaper places to retire.f

Bang on target pensionado! Since all indicators are that those who are going to make the leap from Venezuela are of exactly the same ilk as the Americans who have been flocking to Ecuador for years now. So why shouldn't they come and be welcome? Maybe Correa SHOULD shut the doors, for everybody, including those from the USA. Whould that be satisfactory???

No one suggested this but you.  There was concern that a lot of people are trying to get in but may not qualify.  No one said anything about changing the visa requirements except you.  The concern is that because of the terrible situation in Ven. many unqualified may be fleeing the country and entering others illegally.  If you are ok with that, then you are breaking expat forum rules, for one cannot advocate the breaking of any laws in this forum.

mugtech wrote:

James wrote:

You are joking, aren't you. The news reports are full of the bitching and complaining about Obama's plan to legalize all the illegals that are currently in the USA (mostly Mexicans). Everybody and his dog screaming for tighter controls.

So you get all your info from Faux News
No one is saying Ecuador should change their immigration policies
They are just saying they should enforce them, or poor refugees are going to lower the wages for the people already legally in Ecuador.
Does Brazil, who specializes in hiding war criminals, want the refugees from Ven.?

Actually, if you listen to Ecuadorians they do complain about foreigners, especially Colombians and Peruvians whom some blame for the crime.  True or not...it's there.  Have not heard Americans here complain or make snide remarks...

mugtech wrote:

A $13  150 minute bus ride gets me to NYC and $10 cab gets me on a cruise ship, none of which is available in Ecuador.

Correction:  cruise ships sail frequently to the Galapagos Islands, over 600 miles off mainland EC, i.e. kleintours.com

cccmedia wrote:

mugtech wrote:

A $13  150 minute bus ride gets me to NYC and $10 cab gets me on a cruise ship, none of which is available in Ecuador.

Correction:  cruise ships sail frequently to the Galapagos Islands, over 600 miles off mainland EC, i.e. kleintours.com

Those cruises are priced out of sight, have to fly there.  I don't consider the Galapagos Islands part of Ecuador any more than I consider Easter Island to be part of Chile.  Technically Galapagos is part of Ecuador, but I can't get there for $23, don't want to take the same cruise every year for the rest of my life.

j600rr wrote:

mugtech wrote:

And many are predicting the price of oil has not yet hit bottom, and likely to stay low for a while as OPEC tries to price USA shale out of the market.

Here's what I don't understand. Maybe someone can enlighten me. It's not very debatable what mugtech said. In fact U.S. oil rigs have just dropped the most in 2 years, or to be more specific U.S. drillers idled the rigs for now. Some companies will go out of business, probably all will cut back on expenditures, including laying employees off, but it's not like they are going away forever. Even if OPEC is successful and chases away the U.S. shale  market for the time being, won't they just jump right back in once prices start to rise again?  The whole OPEC plan just seems shortsighted and flawed to me. What am I missing? Plus if the U.S. really wanted to play hardball, and throw a huge wrench in OPEC's plans couldn't the U.S.  just loosen the rules and start exporting crude?

Heard a new conspiracy theory today, as the price of oil dropped another few cents.  Seems the USA is backing the Saudi flooding of the market with security guarantees with the required result  the economic pain of the future reconstituted USSR.  Russia is busy provoking everyone, even Sweden, so this is the way the USA strikes back.  What happens in Ecuador and Venezuela is collateral damage to countries not too friendly to the USA in the first place.  Most expect this to continue at least until June.

mugtech wrote:

Heard a new conspiracy theory today, as the price of oil dropped another few cents.  Seems the USA is backing the Saudi flooding of the market with security guarantees with the required result  the economic pain of the future reconstituted USSR.  Russia is busy provoking everyone, even Sweden, so this is the way the USA strikes back.  What happens in Ecuador and Venezuela is collateral damage to countries not too friendly to the USA in the first place.  Most expect this to continue at least until June.

That theory has been going around for awhile.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opin … story.html

Actually you can go back to when Russia first got involved in the Ukranian situation, and conspiracy theorists were proclaiming that the U.S. was going to create low oil prices to punish them.

Am not really into the whole conspiracy theory. Think is more about the fact that Saudi Arabia wants to keep it's market share. Once you lose that, it is pretty hard to get back. Of course if countries like Russia, and Iran are hurt in the process, then that would just be an extra benefit. There is always a certain amount of politics, and wheeling and dealing going on.

Perplexing to me how a reduction in crude is causing such a drop in stock prices. I would think any impact on oil stocks would be offset by increases in other stocks, such as retail.

Nards Barley wrote:

Perplexing to me how a reduction in crude is causing such a drop in stock prices. I would think any impact on oil stocks would be offset by increases in other stocks, such as retail.

Just a guess (one look at my investment history should convince anyone that I'm no expert): The market doesn't like turmoil and uncertainty. The ruble is dropping seriously, Venezuela is believed to be near default -- this means lots of turmoil ahead.

Again: just my guess.

Nards Barley wrote:

Perplexing to me how a reduction in crude is causing such a drop in stock prices. I would think any impact on oil stocks would be offset by increases in other stocks, such as retail.

Seems investors think the lower oil prices will have a ripple effect on employment and capital spending in the energy areas, with most retail stocks maxed out this time of year.  Some local retail stocks have increased slightly here, but not enough to offset the oil plunge.  Kinda like the welfare capitalism idea that many oil employees and investors will have less to spend on everything else, so all investments suffer.

Nards Barley wrote:

Perplexing to me how a reduction in crude is causing such a drop in stock prices. I would think any impact on oil stocks would be offset by increases in other stocks, such as retail.

You also have a lot of profit taking this time of year which is putting downward pressure on the markets. Plus many portfolio managers were bullish oil rebounding after initial drop, and when it didn't they found themselves a bit overleveraged in energy sector. Imagine they are probably shuffling portfolios around quite a bit now, which presumably would have a negative impact.

Let's also not forget the markets have been at record highs. Might just be time for a cooling off period, and a bit of a retracement.

j600rr wrote:

Nards Barley wrote:

Perplexing to me how a reduction in crude is causing such a drop in stock prices. I would think any impact on oil stocks would be offset by increases in other stocks, such as retail.

You also have a lot of profit taking this time of year which is putting downward pressure on the markets. Plus many portfolio managers were bullish oil rebounding after initial drop, and when it didn't they found themselves a bit overleveraged in energy sector. Imagine they are probably shuffling portfolios around quite a bit now, which presumably would have a negative impact.

Let's also not forget the markets have been at record highs. Might just be time for a cooling off period, and a bit of a retracement.

History tells us there will be a 20% decline some time soon, but I keep reading outrageous reasons for some of the declines.  MSN claims Tesla is down for the year, down 40% from its September high because the declining price of gas is turning people away from electric cars.  Anyone who would fork out $100,000 for an electric car cares not about the price of gas!!!

mugtech wrote:

.
History tells us there will be a 20% decline some time soon, but I keep reading outrageous reasons for some of the declines.  MSN claims Tesla is down for the year, down 40% from its September high because the declining price of gas is turning people away from electric cars.  Anyone who would fork out $100,000 for an electric car cares not about the price of gas!!!

Probably many reason Tesla is dropping. Might have just been a very overvalued stock that people are starting to dump. I trade the commodities/futures markets much more than stocks. Point being, I am much more knowledgeable in those markets than the stock market, but simple history, and economics tells us that eventually when you have record high stock prices, and companies are at record highs there will eventually be a cool down.

Stocks go up, and they go down. Hopefully people have some good ones that will be long term winners, and not the opposite, but there is no guarantee you'll be a winner. Plenty of people have lost, and lost big time in the stock market. That's just the nature of the beast. Always have winners, and losers.

Nards Barley wrote:

j600rr wrote:

Nards Barley wrote:

For a second, I thought I was seeing the reincarnation of wjwoodard from Brazil. I realize now it is wjwoodard.

Careful Nards, they might make you go take a time out in the corner for a day or two again. Remember what happened last time when you challenged the system? Or rather certain individuals.

Wjwoodard´s powers are limited. He can´t ban the Ecuador money train(me) for more than a few hours.

Time out..time out

suefrankdahl wrote:

Nards Barley wrote:

Wjwoodard´s powers are limited. He can´t ban the Ecuador money train(me) for more than a few hours.

Time out..time out

Not off topic, thread is about people that Ecuador might not want entering the country.

mugtech wrote:

Not off topic, thread is about people that Ecuador might not want entering the country.

Well, since Ecuador is already an Associate Member of the MERCOSUR Agreement and has been trying to obtain full membership for some time now, should that happen this whole conversation becomes a moot point. The MERCOSUR Agreement has more mobility provisions than does the NAFTA Agreement between the USA, Canada and Mexico. It will essentially throw the doors wide open for immigration from any MERCOSUR country. Ecuadoran and expats can whine, cry and complain all they want about it and it will do absolutely no good.

Maybe you people should get out of your little bubble and read the MERCOSUR Agreement sometime and then you'd begin to understand what I have been saying all along. And your theories about bandits flooding into EC if immigration rules are relaxed doesn't hold much water either. Brazil as part of MERCOSUR (MERCOSUL here) has been receiving immigrants from all other member nations since the very beginning. I'd hardly describe 99% of them as bandits by any means. For the most part they're skilled workers and retired people with reasonable income or income potential.

Cheers,
James

Yes Harriet, there really is a world outside of Ecuador!

Oh, and just so you guys won't have to burn out your Google Chrome or Mozilla Firefox search engines looking for it.....

TEXTO ÍNTEGRO DEL ACUERDO DE RESIDENCIA MERCOSUR

For those of you who have moved to EC and still don't feel it necessary to speak the language then Google Translator will help understand the provisions.

James wrote:

TEXTO ÍNTEGRO DEL ACUERDO DE RESIDENCIA MERCOSUR

Is that a totally different Ecuador forum? Holy smokes I didn't even know that was here. Looks wildly useful, but I was unable to get expatblog to translate it into English - when I clicked to the English language option hoping for a page translation, I ended up back here in the English Ecuador forum.

Is there some trick I need to know about reading that forum in translation? Is it possible without tediously copy/pasting and running it through some third party translation site?

Thanks for the link.

Hi g1,

You may be able to change the configurations of your browser to translate pages, if not then you have to open the link and then copy the entire text from the posting, then paste it into Google Translator.

Yes it is an entirely different forum (outside this tiny bubble), it's the Spanish language version of the Ecuador Forum. Every one of our forums has 5 separate language-specific versions (English, Spanish, French, Italian and Portuguese) which you can access by clicking the flag icon in the green banner at the top of the page, then selecting the desired language from the drop-down window.

Cheers,
James

James wrote:

expats can whine, cry and complain all they want about it and it will do absolutely no good....

Maybe you people should get out of your little bubble...and then you'd begin to understand what I have been saying all along.

And a Merry Christmas to you too, James.

Ecuador Expats

cccmedia wrote:

James wrote:

expats can whine, cry and complain all they want about it and it will do absolutely no good....

Maybe you people should get out of your little bubble...and then you'd begin to understand what I have been saying all along.

And a Merry Christmas to you too, James.

Ecuador Expats

And a happy and prosperous new year, James
From the greatest nation ever, USA

Merry Christmas to all of you there in the "bubble". Santa has a very big surprise for all of you in the form of the MERCOSUR Agreement........hahahaha.

Guess you're all going to see exactly who's been naughty and nice. Enjoy what's coming down the road for you in 2015. I know I sure will.

Feliz Natal e Prospero Ano Novo / Feliz Navidad y Feliz Año Nuevo

James wrote:

Santa has a very big surprise for all of you in the form of the MERCOSUR Agreement........
hahahaha.

Guess you're all going to see exactly who's been naughty and nice. Enjoy what's coming down the road for you in 2015. I know I sure will.

Before making this brash pseudo-prediction, you commented on the VEN-to-BRA immigrants in this way:

"I'd hardly describe 99 percent of them as bandits by any means.  For the most part they're skilled workers and retired people with reasonable income or income potential."

That's too benign a description for you to warn convincingly now of some specter of trouble "coming down the road" to EC.

Unless you have something more, nobody on this blog will take seriously your vague scenario.

Ecuador Expats commenting from "the bubble"

James wrote:

Feliz Natal e Prospero Ano Novo / Feliz Navidad y Feliz Año Nuevo

Perhaps no one informed you, but this is an English only forum.
Try to follow the rules in the future

cccmedia wrote:

Unless you have something more, nobody on this blog will take seriously your vague scenario.

Ecuador Expats commenting from "the bubble"

The only thing that EC expats on this forum take seriously, or in fact even care about is themselves. They're so shortsighted and narrow minded, by and large, that they have come to think that THEY are the real owners of Ecuador and the Ecuadoran people have somehow, mysteriously ended up on THEIR land. So why would I expect any of you in that bubble to take me seriously.

I'm not making any doom and gloom predictions about the future, if you are capable of reading the MERCOSUR Agreement provisions on residency. I'm talking about a present day reality which you people seem to be conveniently ignoring because it doesn't quite mesh with your sense of ownership of the country. MERCOSUR gives citizens of all member nations much more mobility between countries than does the NAFTA Agreement between the USA, Canada and Mexico. As an Associate Member nation Ecuador has already extended all of those rights to those from the other member nations (REALITY). South America is THEIR continent and with the exception of Brazil ALL of those coming from those nations speak Spanish, unlike most of the expats who've essentially invaded Ecuador and seem to treat it as their own private little oyster (another REALITY).

Your initial posting reads like a sob session about all those nasty Venezuelans who are coming into Ecuador and not wanted there (by you perhaps) and that they should be stopped, as if you have anything at all to say in the matter in the first place. You don't! (yet another REALITY). It's amazing how for the most part the members here from North America are quite content to see relaxed immigration for themselves, but somehow feel that those same standards should not apply to everybody else. News Flash!!! South Americans probably have more right, both under existing treaties and morally to be in Ecuador than you guys do. If you don't like that little fact then too bad. It's amazing how a group of cry babies that amount to less than 1 percent of the overall population can even think they should have a say in what goes on there in the first place. I suppose you'll soon be demanding that the other 99.1 percent of the country abandon the Spanish language and begin speaking English just to make you guys happy too.

I'm so glad that the North Americans that immigrate to Brazil don't have the same attitude as you guys seem to share in common, because if they did the Brazilian people would run them out of the country in hoards. Don't know what accounts for the difference, perhaps it has something to do with the difference in the size of the countries; and Ecuador not being a big player on the global economic scene like Brazil is. Anyway, even though I don't understand why the difference in attitude I'm truly grateful that it exists. You guys can keep Ecuador, gladly. Just so long as you intend to stay there and not export your attitude south.

Feliz Navidad

James wrote:

as if you have anything at all to say in the matter in the first place. You don't!

Feliz Navidad

So you speak for all of Brazil when you say that immigrants who are legally permanent residents should have no say in the affairs of the country? Thank God not all North Americans think the way you do.

Felix Unger

Unless you're naturalized citizens of Ecuador, you sure don't have anything to say about the internal politics of the country (and thus anywhere else in South America). Check the Nationality Law my friend. Oh, I forgot, it's written in Spanish........ oh well, there's always Google.

While in Ecuador, if you've been a permanent resident for 5 years you may vote in local (municipal) elections, you cannot vote in federal elections, nor do you have any say in federal matters.

And here in Brazil Decreto/Lei 6815 prohibits anyone who is not a Brazilian citizen from having any involvement in politics whatsoever, can't even join a political party.

Seems you think every place on earth has laws just like the USofA, they don't. Oh and BTW, are LPR immigrants able to vote or have any say in the USA?

(Answer: NO - it is a federal offense for a non-citizen of the USA to vote or even attempt to register to vote in federal elections. It usually will even result in a removal proceeding being initiated.)

This whole thread reminds me of the famous line from the 1958 Best Seller novel by Eugene Burdick and William Lederer "The Ugly American".

In the novel, a Burmese journalist says "For some reason, the [American] people I meet in my country are not the same as the ones I knew in the United States. A mysterious change seems to come over Americans when they go to a foreign land. They isolate themselves socially. They live pretentiously. They are loud and ostentatious."

Sad to say that it still holds true throughout most of the civilized world, and especially in Ecuador.

Good comments, James.
Appears our amigo from Bethlehem is happy to stay put in his cozy manger. And critic from a safe distance...
I generally try to stay away from the expat scene, especially in Cuenca, where the majority of the American expats are looking to replicate what they left behind, very few have bothered to learn Spanish so I am often asked to "host" their ventures into the mercado or side viajes.
Let's hope that the good and kind people of Ecuador will shrug off what has often appeared to me to be a condescending attitude to the locals by all of us expats.

Paz y amor

Hi pensionado,

Surprising to see there's actually somebody there in EC who has the courage to go against the flow, to stand up and speak the truth that they try so much to ignore since it doesn't quite fit into their warped sense of owning the country. Why doesn't it surprise me at all that it's a fellow Canadian who won't be cowed by our southern neighbors?

You're bang on point. I see comments like the one above from mugtech, "And a happy and prosperous new year, James... From the greatest nation ever, USA", who's more interested in moving off to the Philippines than he seems to be interested in Ecuador and I laugh. The greatest nation ever??? Well, if that were so true then why are so many of them getting out and invading places like Ecuador, Vietnam, the Philippines, even Islamic nations where they definitely don't fit into the landscape at all??? In fact, I don't even know if mugtech has ever set foot in South America, but it's easy to armchair quarterback "from a safe distance".

I've lived in South America for thirteen years now, and I've made it a point of learning as much as I could about all of the South American countries, their cultures, their economy and political situations. I have the greatest respect for the Brazilian people who have been gracious hosts to hundreds of thousands of expats, some of whom truly didn't merit the cordial reception. I learned their language long before I set foot on Brazilian soil, out of respect for the people I would be living with. If I had moved to some other country I would have done exactly the same, learned their language instead of adopting the arrogant and egocentric attitude that they should speak to me in English simply because it is the second most widely spoken language. (So why shouldn't they speak to me in Chinese or shouldn't I learn Chinese for that matter since it's No. 1???)

They migrate south to Ecuador, to retire to a country where they will have a much lower cost of living and as such a better lifestyle than they could hope to have back home; then they start bitching and whining about paying higher prices than the locals, won't speak Spanish if their lives depended on it, lord it over the locals at every chance to show that they're so much better, more privileged, etc., and now have the utter gal to think that people from other South American nations (in particular Venezuela) shouldn't be allowed in. The old "I'm OK, but you're not" attitude we see all the time. They no sooner set foot on Ecuadoran soil and they start trying to turn the country into a Xerox copy of the ship they just abandoned. Go figure!!!

Every now and then somebody comes along and speaks the TRUTH, something they dread more than death itself and they all get their Fruit of the Looms in a big knot. So, you my friend are now probably on their hit list too, simply because you have spoken up, and worse still given moral support to me.... wjwoodward who they've declared their dire enemy. 

Cheers,
James