Risks of working without a visa

I read about it and also found some more reports on the international news.

He was working for a computer firm but on a visit visa perhaps business visa which is against the law since one will need a KITAS and work permit to legally work.

He quit (whatever the reason was) and got busted when serving people at the bar/restaurant so he clearly misused his visa also overstayed which is a serious crime.

Now reading in the newspaper how much money is needed to get him out of prison will backfire, there will be no way that the authorities will take a bribe since KPK will watch very close.

Foreigners should be aware of it that getting caught misusing the visa or working without the right permit can be fined up to Rp 500.000.000 and 5 years prison.

http://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/news/g … 1512492._/

Some more about it to read....

I'm less than happy at tge total crap the newspaper printed.
It makes it sound as if he isn't a criminal.

I wonder what these people would say if it was a Pakistani illegal working in Wales.
I'll bet they wouldn't be fundraising.

mas fred wrote:

I'm less than happy at tge total crap the newspaper printed.
It makes it sound as if he isn't a criminal.

Totally agree, he violated the existing regulations and it will not get better for him when reading all the articles in the newspapers.

mas fred wrote:

I wonder what these people would say if it was a Pakistani illegal working in Wales.
I'll bet they wouldn't be fundraising.

Too true Fred. They would want the Pakistani out real quick..

I too have no sympathy for this guy. He flouted the visa regulations and obviously had no knowledge of what the consequences might be. He now knows.Steep learning curve.

Here more background about the story, he had a 60 days visa.....he worked, overstayed and worked.


BBC News:

Mathew Davies, from Blackwood, Caerphilly county, went to the country on a visa to work for a computer firm.

But when the job ended he started working as a waiter instead of returning home to Wales, it is claimed.

His family have appealed for help to free him, and claim he has has little food and no clean water in jail.

They said he is being held without charge at the notorious Cipinang Penitentiary Institution in Jakarta.

The Indonesian foreign ministry said Mr Davies arrived in Indonesia on a visitor's visa, which allows people to stay in the country for 60 days.

The visa was attached to a sponsor - the technology firm that Mr Davies worked for - and once he stopped working for the company he should have returned home.

But the ministry says he was caught working as a waiter in a restaurant.

'Claim money'
Karishma Vaswani, the BBC's Indonesia correspondent who spoke to the foreign ministry, said: "In other normal visa overstay cases, the overstayer can just pay a fine and then leave the country.

"But in Mr Davies's case, he actually violated immigration rules and therefore according to Indonesian law has committed a crime.

"The next steps in this case, according to the ministry, are that the details of the case will be sent to the attorney general's office which will decide whether or not to press charges."

Mr Davies's family have been told by friends in Indonesia they may need as much as £10,000 to help release him.

His mother, Yvonne, alleged: "They've just locked him up, they're holding him there and just trying to claim money off him all the time.

"I just want him home, I just need to see him."

Rule number one for foreigners in trouble with the law here in Indonesia…keep your mouth shut and don't give any interviews for the press. 

The infamous Shapelle Corby case here in Bali proved that better than any other recent case I can recall.  If she had kept her mouth shut, and the press in OZ didn't run tons of stories about her as some poor hapless victim, she would have been out of Kerobokan Prison years before being released on parole earlier this year.  And that is not speculation, that is factual truth. 

Nothing infuriates the local police and prosecutors more than the kind of BS one can read in the stories linked to in this string.  It only causes them to “dig in their heals” deeper and the meter counting the IDR to go on steroids.  Dumb, dumb, and dumber.

“Ignorance of the law” is not a valid defense in any country that abides by the rule of law.  That is partially the reason why several of the regular expatriate posters on this forum harp on the importance of not even thinking about working illegally here in Indonesia. 

I don't feel one bit sorry for this bloke, and for sure I will continue to report illegal foreign workers whenever I become aware of them.

Ubudian wrote:

Rule number one for foreigners in trouble with the law here in Indonesia…keep your mouth shut and don't give any interviews for the press. 

The infamous Shapelle Corby case here in Bali proved that better than any other recent case I can recall.  If she had kept her mouth shut, and the press in OZ didn't run tons of stories about her as some poor hapless victim, she would have been out of Kerobokan Prison years before being released on parole earlier this year.  And that is not speculation, that is factual truth. 

Nothing infuriates the local police and prosecutors more than the kind of BS one can read in the stories linked to in this string.  It only causes them to “dig in their heals” deeper and the meter counting the IDR to go on steroids.  Dumb, dumb, and dumber.

“Ignorance of the law” is not a valid defense in any country that abides by the rule of law.  That is partially the reason why several of the regular expatriate posters on this forum harp on the importance of not even thinking about working illegally here in Indonesia. 

I don't feel one bit sorry for this bloke, and for sure I will continue to report illegal foreign workers whenever I become aware of them.

Very well said Roy, as I also said in my first post it will definitely backfire now reading the story in the various newspapers. How stupid to mentioned how much money they need to get him released.....

Don't feel sorry as well....

Total agree

Just hope there are not other people stupid enough to think they can get away with breaking  the immigration regulations.

Sadly, from the number of threads on the blog, there seem to be a lot of hopeful surfers looking to get a job when they get here. Just aim to highlight the downside of that approach.

Good point about keeping your story out of the press, I cannot imagine that inflammatory coverage in the south wales press is going to help his case with the indonesian authorities. Tho I suspect in this case it was his mum unloading a "my poor son" story on the local reporters. It is easy copy for them, but has made his situation worse not better.

I do feel sorry for him, yes he is an idiot, yes he blatantly broke the law and yes he got fair response from the authorities. But 2 years in local prison is a tough learning opportunity. Hopefully he won't get a "victim me" book deal at the end of it...

This guy spoke to me before coming here but I cant find when or where, I will have to keep searching and see what was said.

Just found some more interesting links.

He is (was) member here in EB and obviously also dealing with apartments and doing travel and tour business.

Yeah right....and he can not understand why he is jailed now.  https://www.expat.com/forum/profile.php?id=863589https://www.linkedin.com/pub/mat-davies/7b/b1b/922http://www.myadpost.com/matdavies59/

lukereg wrote:

This guy spoke to me before coming here but I cant find when or where, I will have to keep searching and see what was said.

That would be extremely interesting. It would be good of you to let us know.
As for the cash, it sounds very much as if immigration are following the standard rules.

If memory serves, the fine is Rp200,000/day, with a max of Rp25 million.

If sent a stiff letter to the newspaper.

mas fred wrote:

lukereg wrote:

This guy spoke to me before coming here but I cant find when or where, I will have to keep searching and see what was said.

That would be extremely interesting. It would be good of you to let us know.
As for the cash, it sounds very much as if immigration are following the standard rules.

If memory serves, the fine is Rp200,000/day, with a max of Rp25 million.

If sent a stiff letter to the newspaper.

Do you mean the fine for overstay ?

It is Rp 300.000/day for less than 60 days as from last June

happyhour wrote:

mas fred wrote:

lukereg wrote:

This guy spoke to me before coming here but I cant find when or where, I will have to keep searching and see what was said.

That would be extremely interesting. It would be good of you to let us know.
As for the cash, it sounds very much as if immigration are following the standard rules.

If memory serves, the fine is Rp200,000/day, with a max of Rp25 million.

If sent a stiff letter to the newspaper.

Do you mean the fine for overstay ?

It is Rp 300.000/day for less than 60 days as from last June

Thanks for the correction. I'm out of date on that one.

How does anyone in any country move to the other side of the world without realizing how important visas are?

Sort of like the same people who carry drugs into countries which openly declare the penalty for bringing drugs into their country being death thinking 'it will never happen to me'.

You know, the stupid ones

HaileyinHongKong wrote:

How does anyone in any country move to the other side of the world without realizing how important visas are?

The only planning I did for my move was the visa.
I did serious crazy, but not stupid.

IMHO a good many westerners fall into the trap of thinking they have some sort of entitlement, and that this entitlement applies to them regardless of where in the world they decide to travel, or set up home.

I've witnessed this swagger and arrogance countless times over the years, and if anything, it is getting worse, not better.

Far too many expats fail to understand that unless, and until they acquire citizenship, they are still essentially guests in this country.  They do not have any right to be employed, they do not have any right to land ownership, and they do not have any right to ignore the laws, regulations and customs that apply to local citizens.

Unfortunately for many expats, these lessons in humility end up coming only after very painful and costly lessons. 

Here in Bali we euphemistically refer to these lessons as “karma.”   

Ubudian wrote:

IMHO a good many westerners fall into the trap of thinking they have some sort of entitlement, and that this entitlement applies to them regardless of where in the world they decide to travel, or set up home.

I've witnessed this swagger and arrogance countless times over the years, and if anything, it is getting worse, not better.

Far too many expats fail to understand that unless, and until they acquire citizenship, they are still essentially guests in this country.  They do not have any right to be employed, they do not have any right to land ownership, and they do not have any right to ignore the laws, regulations and customs that apply to local citizens.

Unfortunately for many expats, these lessons in humility end up coming only after very painful and costly lessons. 

Here in Bali we euphemistically refer to these lessons as “karma.”   

Karma kickback can pack quite a punch sometimes...

Sadly this entitlement also shows back in the home countries too,

"Sadly this entitlement also shows back in the home countries too..."

Indeed it does Sam...and that is just one amongst a myriad of reasons I would never, ever consider raising my three sons there.

2 risks,

get deported

or

pay up the guy who is deporting you

Kardus. Thats so much help. Pay the guy who is deporting you. Fantastic. How much would you give?

Luke, the world is not Disneyland, specially not here in Indo,  when you work without valid visa what would you expect to get? the custom dude escort you home and make you a cup of tea? the guy will give you two option, deportation or you pay him up. I am not trying to patronize anyone who is working without valid work permit, I am simply letting them know, when worse come to worst those two options will be the only options to choose from.

offcourse choosing the second will get you out of the trouble or losing more cash and still get deported. therefore get a valid working visa,... why would you even consider working without valid work permit? i mean you flew miles and miles from home just to get yourself into the risk of getting deported? and what company doesn't arrange your work permit for you? I mean you must be pretty good at wht you do right? that the co must hire from abroad instead of hiring local professional who will be more seasoned to our own market, if they dont arrange you your paper work, means you are replaceable, you dont worth all the administrative hassle, then why go to all the troubles? in that case wouldn't you be better off doing whatever you are doing in your home country without the risk of humiliation? and why would you work as a waitress in a third world country? be better of staying on the dole at your home country.

I mean I am not being harsh or anything, but seeing all those foreigners at puncak, waiting for i dont know what for the rest of their life while commuting with motorcycle fueled with subsidies gas irritates me

kardus wrote:

2 risks,

get deported

or

pay up the guy who is deporting you

NO.
Immigration has cleaned up.
offering bribes will probably get you into more trouble.

Thats all good and well but why not say that to start with? Rather than use so few words what is being said does not make sense. I agree that no one should here working without visas but then sometimes that can happen due to problems where the visas are being issued and that becomes out of the sponsors and employers hands.

As for foriegners buying cheap fuel, cant see how thats different to middle class Indonesians doing the same and taking advantage of something that was meant for the less well off. But as the fuel issue seems to be over. That is not really important now.

then better advice will be to make sure you have work permit before working

agree on the fuel, the amount of tax that is paid for employees' PPH21 alone is crazzzzzzzy.... I would like to see more of that money on infrastructure rather that fuel being burnt daily. and yes I agree if you make more than 15mio a month and you can afford a car, you shouldn't use subsidized fuel

Kardus, IMHO it is not a good idea to even suggest bribery when it comes to immigration...at least not in Bali anyway which saw more deportations last year than in all previous ten years combined.

And btw, the deportation process involves several more than one official, and also involves both immigration and POLDA. 

Furthermore, the risks of being caught illegally working as a foreigner go far beyond simple deportation, and include up to five years in jail and up to a US $ fine of 50,000.

Ubudian wrote:

Kardus, IMHO it is not a good idea to even suggest bribery when it comes to immigration.

It's a terrible idea, one that's very likely to land you in a lot more trouble than you were in.
Immigration were pretty bad, but that's been dumped into the dustbin of history.

DO NOT ATTEMPT TO BRIBE IMMIGRATION OFFICERS

@Fred   The maximum penalty for working illegally is different to the overstay, and will depend on the judgement , but the maximum is Rp.500,000,000 fine or 5 years imprisonment . So he will need almost £30,000 worst case to get home. Hope he gets some lenient judges.

And to bring this informative old thread up to the present day and the ramifications of working as a post covid 'digital nomad'

Curious as to how the Indonesian immigration authorities look at this. One presumes that the employer and employee (or sub contractor) would not feel the need for a business visa coming in on a visitors visa with extensions. The digital nomad would not be taking a job from a local but is he/she still abusing the 'spirit' of the law?

Best I can tell, the visa being pushed by agents for nomads is a B211

https://kemlu.go.id/bucharest/en/pages/ … orization.

The wording doesn't really fit so take care to check WITH IMMIGRATION (Not an agent that profits from your visa) before you engage in anything.

As for nomads - Watch out for companies selling visas - A number of them lie.

I've just taken a look at a number of sites that sell all sorts of visas that are legally difficult to justify.

@Fred

I'm just wondering Fred how many 'digital nomads' will wing it and try and stay under the radar. Essentially they are 'virtual' entities with no local banking monetary footprint or exchange of services within the Republic.