Body of murdered Robert Kelvin Ellis found in Bali rice field

Check your link Tom...it doesn't take me to the story. 

Ironic...re-runs of "A Murder She Wrote" are now popular here...but of course not quite as popular as Mahabarata!

BTW, my devotee wife of that Indian saga that has captured the Balinese by storm was among invited guests to the Indian Consulate to meet some of the actors a week ago. 

But back to murders here on Bali...should there be any surprise that with the ever increasing numbers of westerners calling Bali "home" that the number of crimes involving westerners (including murder) rises?

As a quick follow up…here's another link to this news story:

http://www.smh.com.au/world/robert-kelv … 19k5q.html

A great quote within it:

"Who knows what happens. If you piss the wrong person off in Bali, or if you do the wrong thing, weird things happen. This is a very weird island, things happen for very stupid reasons or no reason at all," the friend said."

YUP!  That is indeed the way it is with life in the jungle!

Sorry Roy, something went wrong when copy/paste.

Here the link

http://www.news.com.au/world/asia/body- … 7097757135

You can see them on a photo together as well

Ubudian wrote:

As a quick follow up…here's another link to this news story:

http://www.smh.com.au/world/robert-kelv … 19k5q.html

A great quote within it:

"Who knows what happens. If you piss the wrong person off in Bali, or if you do the wrong thing, weird things happen. This is a very weird island, things happen for very stupid reasons or no reason at all," the friend said."

YUP!  That is indeed the way it is with life in the jungle!

I think it's not only Bali, it can happening everywhere in Indonesia, nevertheless the quote is indeed a good one and not out of the blue

Agree Tom, it can happen anywhere in Indonesia, but of course this happened in Bali which is precisely why the Australian press is running strong with it...they acting as the vocal arm of DFAT intending to convince their populous of the dangers of Bali.

As for that American woman who was killed by her daughter and her daughter's American boy friend, I haven't heard much about it lately.  There was a move afoot to have the US authorities come and take the two back to the states for prosecution (Bali doesn't need a live TV OJ type of trial) but the crime occurred here, and the opposing view is not to abdicate on the right (and responsibility) to prosecute.  It's a tough call and I can see plenty of merit in both arguments.

Ubudian wrote:

Agree Tom, it can happen anywhere in Indonesia, but of course this happened in Bali which is precisely why the Australian press is running strong with it...they acting as the vocal arm of DFAT intending to convince their populous of the dangers of Bali.

As for that American woman who was killed by her daughter and her daughter's American boy friend, I haven't heard much about it lately.  There was a move afoot to have the US authorities come and take the two back to the states for prosecution (Bali doesn't need a live TV OJ type of trial) but the crime occurred here, and the opposing view is not to abdicate on the right (and responsibility) to prosecute.  It's a tough call and I can see plenty of merit in both arguments.

Roy that's true, last thing I heard was that a lawyer from US came over to team up with the local part but no further news since.

Don't think they will let them prosecute in the US, crime happened here so they have to deal with it in Indonesia.

I agree, I also think the trial of the two love birds will be here in Bali.  It will be a news spectacle for sure, and the Balinese will love it!  But, that might be just what we need to compete with the hugely popular Mahabharata series!   

Instead of "Let's Throw Mama from the Train" it will be "Let's Pack Mama in a Suitcase." 

(moderated: no abusive comment here please)

What a shame.  That entire and mostly useful thread about Indonesians considering college in OZ has been taken down, but alas, you're still here!   

I could put back my pearls of wisdom if you like.

By the way, you don't want to stuff me in a suitcase too, do you?

Nope...that would be one heck of a waste of a perfectly good suitcase!

happyhour wrote:

Sorry Roy, something went wrong when copy/paste.

Here the link

http://www.news.com.au/world/asia/body- … 7097757135

You can see them on a photo together as well

Do me a favour, and don't mention this story to my wife.
I don't want her getting any ideas.

Ubudian wrote:

But back to murders here on Bali...should there be any surprise that with the ever increasing numbers of westerners calling Bali "home" that the number of crimes involving westerners (including murder) rises?

Interesting case nonetheless. I agree with you on this point completely Roy, but it's not just Westerners by any means. When large numbers of people immigrate to any nation from another country there is bound to be some increase in violent crimes, predominantly among members of that group against others within the same group. This is probably due to the fact that the vast number of murders are not committed by strangers, but rather people known to the victim or who is somehow related.

Here in Brazil for we see it all the time, some Brazilian touring or expatriating to the EU or North America, Australia gets murdered. It's splashed all over the news, everybody starts whining and crying about it and in most of these cases the murderer is, in fact, another Brazilian. I'm sure that the same holds true between Americans or Canadians or Australians abroad too. Stranger murders really are rare compared to those of known victims. So, it's certainly no reflection on Indonesia or Bali by any means.

Cheers,
James

mas fred wrote:

happyhour wrote:

Sorry Roy, something went wrong when copy/paste.

Here the link

http://www.news.com.au/world/asia/body- … 7097757135

You can see them on a photo together as well

Do me a favour, and don't mention this story to my wife.
I don't want her getting any ideas.

  you should have told me earlier

What will be most interesting to follow in the "murder for hire" case will be how her defense attorney approaches the "legitimacy" of having her husband killed.  In US criminal law, this would be called motive and mitigating factors.

Her conviction is a certainly as she has confessed, but her sentence could range from as few as five years in Kerobokan to as harsh as the death penalty. 

If her husband was abusive, openly unfaithful, and she had legitimate reason to fear for the safety of their two sons, she will not be severely punished.  If she was a Rhangda incarnate, she will get a long prison term, or even the death penalty. 

As for those two who carried out the deed, they are in deep and will be lucky to get life in prison.  Murder with money being the sole motivation is viewed as particularly heinous in these parts. 

Trials in Indonesia are particularly interesting in my opinion.  One of the customs that I particularly like here is having the person presenting testimony facing the judges directly, eye to eye, and seated openly in a single chair.  This has got to be far more intimidating, and perhaps likely to produce discovery of the truth than say in the US where the witness sits to the left of the presiding judge and is somewhat sheltered by the witness booth. 

Anyone with interest in this case will surely find it fascinating to read the accounts of the trial, and its outcome in both local and Australian press.  For certain, there will be little consistency and agreement between those two venues.

[Moderated]

sourmangoa wrote:

[Moderated]

What are you smoking during the day ?

Sourmangoa, I believe your statements do not accurately portray the state of affairs in Indonesia.

It is true that there is a certain - self-serving for the most part - type of xenophobia prevailing within Indonesia at the official level. Many Indonesians, however, stare and interconnect with non-Indonesian white foreigner visitors with a mixture of admiration, greed and religious or moral superiority. In how far this is a correct attitude is another question.

Once one actually lives in the country normal factors such as personal character and self-interest of either party comes to play as it does in any country.

The increasing crime rates in Bali are due to the lowering of barriers of respect of personal space between people and the fact that "Westerners" including Japanese and maybe Koreans do not take sufficient precautions. Many of these crimes appear to have been committed by non-Balinese perpetrators principally "guest" workers from East Java. Without East Javanese workers in Bali, however, I think the local economy would grind to a halt.

I am not Indonesian, I don't smoke. I take care of myself.

[Moderated]

How hilariously disingenuous for an expat, supposedly from the US, to be bemoaning crime here in Indonesia.  Having lived in several areas of the US, this is by far the safest place I've lived for the past 17 years, and among the only place on earth I'd raise my family.   

And truly, if Indonesia is the “gateway to hell” what the heck are you doing here anyway?  Are you preparing for your final trip…now being at the gateway? 

And this is just more baloney from someone who obviously has zero understanding of the Balinese:

“The increasing crime rates in Bali are due to the lowering of barriers of respect of personal space between people.”

Clearly the author of that gem of ignorance has never been inside a Balinese compound, let alone understand a flip of how the Balinese live.

One more point.  For those who don't know (like newbie spammers), this forum has a large number of Indonesian members. 

Point in fact…whenever the BS slings and arrows, and derogatory comments about Indonesians are posted here…you never hear them firing back.  You'll never hear them telling the bule expat…”go to hell.”  In short, their restraint is remarkable and for certain, most admirable.  Too bad that so many foreign expats lack a tenth of the character of most Indonesians.  And thank God that most Indonesians don't judge us all for the ugliness one can all too often find here among some expats.

Hello everyone,

I would like to inform you that some inappropriate posts have been removed from this thread.

Thank you.

Alas my posts again. 

Allow me to expand on precisely why this prior quote is so utterly wrong when it comes to Bali…that quote being:

“The increasing crime rates in Bali are due to the lowering of barriers of respect of personal space between people.”

Anyone with a modicum of knowledge of Balinese culture understands that “personal space” is a non sequitur and a concept which is not at all embraced or valued by the Balinese.

All over Bali, indeed, even in the grotesquely westernized areas of southern Bali, the Balinese predominantly live in family compounds where it is typical to find three or four generations all sharing the same living space.  These compounds are normally connected, linked together and in sum, constitute the village, (kampung) and from which the workings of adat emerge.  For the Balinese, it is the embrace of family, and extended family (the village) which is the nucleus of their lives. 

There is little or no “personal space” in these compounds, and aside from married couples (sons of the patriarch of the family), even sleeping rooms are shared along with the kitchen, mandi (bathrooms), bales, etc.

This choice of close communal living is not a result of economics, or any other misunderstanding by western ideologies, rather it is an essential aspect of Balinese culture which has been a key aspect of Balinese culture way before the first westerner ever sat foot on Bali over four hundred years ago.  Western influence has virtually nothing to do with how the Balinese continue to live.  And, it never will. 

Crime in Bali, and its perceived increase has absolutely nothing to do with “lowering the barriers of respect of personal respect between people.”  That idea is simply ridiculous. 

Furthermore, it is also completely inaccurate to proffer the misconception that crime is on an increase in Bali.  It isn't.  All one needs to do is to study crime statistics for Bali in relation to population, and in so doing, come to the accurate conclusion that crime is very much in the same relative proportion to population here as it has for many decades.   

Sorry to say, but little else bothers me more than when those who would mislead others in their views of Bali (distorted and terribly inaccurate) unabashedly spew their ignorance within a false cloak of truth. 

Sure, I embrace the right of free speech as much as anyone, but I despise purposeful false comments that are tendered without any documentation, supportive data or personal experience.

I have been to Bali last year and lived for few days thanks to my Indonesian friend who financed my tour. I was alone and visited places far away from the Kuta on a motor bike. Bali is no doubt the paradise. Its people are among the most friendliest on earth.

A wise move...to get out of Kuta. 

The majority of tourists that come to Bali, especially the younger ones, spend all their time in Kuta and unless they come back for another visit and go elsewhere, they live with the misconception that they've been to Bali.  They haven't been to Bali...they've only been to Kuta.

(sarc. on) of course one should take on board as iron-clad truth every utterance by a self-proclaimed Bali expert living an "Eat, Pray, Love" existence in the other major tourist spot in Bali - the realm of the multicultural, the abode of the politically correct concerned "world citizens" who just love Bali's oh so superior culture.

The fact that there is a whole tourist business that is built up on destructive local practices - the ceremonies that so enthrall the self-same jaded visitors from advanced Western societies.

And what are some of these destructive local practices? It is the debt that generations of Balinese clans incur when financing various religious festivals and especially burial ceremonies. In many cases, this is what causes the enforced sale of ancestral lands to developers that can on-sell this property for the use of these self-same jaded types that then want to close down the entrance gates to their personal slice of heaven.

Meanwhile those alienated former land owners, landless and/or riven with debt, live in practical bondage to the all encompassing tourist industry suffering endless patronization by those that profess to understand and value their culture. You know the type... (sarc. off)

Lacking direct skills, except at the most basic level, they generally but with exceptions, are not the ones directly employed by the tourism and mass construction industry. The main role being taken by manual laborers from East Java province.

These workers, inexperienced with the Western hedonistic lifestyle as one can see in Southern Bali and in pockets of the northern coast around Singaraja, are both attracted and repelled. In the increasingly materialistic society that is modern Indonesia, confronted by a religious disdain for the "other", ample opportunity and often a lack of security and as previously so accurately stated “The increasing crime rates in Bali are due to the lowering of barriers of respect of personal space between people.” this is why crime is increasing.

The two terror attacks, perpetrated but not planned by East & Central Javanese Muslim terrorists were just the opening salvos of this cultural war. The body count is rising while those with opaque motives carry on whistling past the graveyard.

http://m.smh.com.au/national/wife-of-sl … y28zsr6qiq

Time to get back to the topic, in the local news no update on the case to be found but obviously Australian newspapers keep following the story providing more background

That's because there is no more news. Happy the the Jakarta Post hasn't decided to fill its pages with this like they seem to when they can't find any interesting other news.
The Australians like to keep reminding each other how dangerous Bali always is.

Australian journalists and their employers believe that information on probable contract killings of their citizens is in the public interest.

If the respective news agencies had a collective axe to grind then they would compare tourist murder rates between Kuta, Lankawi & Pattaya...

As usual Indo, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about when it comes to Bali.   

Yes, while cremation ceremonies can be expensive, they in no way lock up a Balinese family with debt for generations.  That concept is ridiculous, and following your distorted  logic, the Balinese would all be bankrupt by now, as each generation will conduct a number of cremation ceremonies during the course of their generation. 

Most Balinese villages have cremation the earliest of either five years, or when the temporary cemetery is full.  Families double and triple up to minimize expenses.  Those large creature like sarcophagus you see at Balinese cremations most often will hold the remains of several departed, thus the cost for that sarcophagus is spread out over several related families. 

"Lacking direct skills, except at the most basic level, they generally but with exceptions, are not the ones directly employed by the tourism and mass construction industry."

Have you gone completely daft?  The more you write, the bigger the hole you dig for yourself.  When was the last time you visited a hotel in Bali?  Duh!  Did you think the staff, very often from the GM on down, were from Java?  Can you even tell a Balinese from a Javanese?  Do you have any idea how many five star resorts are in owner partnerships with Balinese, or how many Balinese owned tourism businesses there are in Bali?  Clearly not...regard the question as rhetorical. 

Do you have the slightest clue just how much monetary wealth is held here by the Balinese?  Clearly not...again the question is rhetorical. 

And regarding construction, again a painful moan from me over the abject ignorance you spew on this forum.

Yes, we employ a great many Javanese laborers here in Bali, and they generally are hired to do the basic work…clearing the land, digging and laying foundations, laying in rebar, pouring concrete, building the walls, etc. etc.  The finish work is almost always completed by highly skilled Balinese artisans…and not imported labor.  In other words, what you wrote is the direct opposite of the reality.  You couldn't be more wrong! 

Do tell us gurunot, how many buildings have YOU built on Bali?   Why are so many Javanese workers temporarily employed for construction projects on Bali?  The answer is simple economics…they are willing to work for less pay than most Balinese. 

As for your “cultural war” BS, may I remind you that the two terrorist attacks on Bali occurred in 2002 and 2005…12 and 9 years ago respectively, and nothing since.  And there have been no terrorist incidents in Java either for quite some time.

Why don't you stick to writing about Yogyakarta and leave Bali for those who know it well, and live it daily?  Your BS about Bali is doing this forum a great disservice.   And frankly, I'm getting tired of having to clean up your mess!

This is why I only take a carry-on when I go to Bali.  Good luck cramming my lifeless corpse in there.

lukereg wrote:

Alas my posts again. 

It's the avatar.

Another murder news from hong kong , an Indonesian lady was found dead in hong kong apartment and an English banker was charged with the murderer  !! I wonder if Hailey knows about the news ??

I read about two murdered women....and both from indonesia.

Will look for the link again....

I found the link;
http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/arti … hai-murder
Still the same news no update yet so far!