Debrecen good place to live?

There have been a few discussions about Debrecen here, you can search for them. Overall opinion leaned toward Debrecen as not a great place for expats.

If you are interested in a city on the Great Hungarian Plain, also look at Szeged. It is a lovely city. And a lot of culture and international festivals happen in Szeged throughout the year to keep life interesting.

I read threw the discussions did not really see something one thing or another. So i thought i would ask.

Why do you say Debrecen is not a good place for expats? What your reasons for saying this? Why do you suggest Szeged?

I agree with Kissallee Been to Szeged and it's a nice place, you can check also Székesfehérvár
Where I visited few times because I went to Immigration. Shopping mall some restaurants will not be a problem there.

At the moment I'm living in Dunaujvaros which is not bad as well for a place to live if you are looking for a quiet place but of course the most important is the safety which is so far I never seen any crime here police everyday moving around. About groceries and shops like huge Tesco,  numbers of Interspar, Aldi, Lidl, muller, clothes shops like H&M, sports shops etc. in short almost everything is here. There are numbers of parks, gyms and different kind of restaurants, cafe and pubs here as well.

The most important also is the distance to Budapest City which is around 70 kilometers, I usually drive 45 mins but if you take bus or train I heard would take 1 hour or bit more depends on the traffic. Rental here is quiet reasonable than Budapest. So for me, living here is not a problem at all, you can choose house or condominium.

Hope these given you some ideas...

FeliciaOni wrote:

Why do you say Debrecen is not a good place for expats? What your reasons for saying this?

Of the few expats that actually lived in Debrecen the feedback was not that positive. There is not really much going on there for expats, so unless you are student at the University most do not move there. One request for information here at expat-blog about Debrecen has gone unanswered for a few months now, so there are not many expats there and Debrecen specific help is lacking. So for an expat, especially for a new one, it may not be that great a place to go first off.

FeliciaOni wrote:

Why do you suggest Szeged?

Hard to describe. If you have been to Szeged you would understand. It is a really lovely city. An open and welcoming city (given all its festivals it kind of has to be). And as I said, it simply has more life to it than Debrecen.

But only suggested Szeged if you want to live on the Great Plain. If you are not interested in being around other expats there are other places in Hungary I might suggest as well (most being not as hot as on the Great Plain). If you want to try a sub-alpine climate, for example, Szentgotthárd in far western Hungary is remote, quiet, rural and quite nice (and right near the Austrian and Slovenian boarders which has more benefits than being near the Romania border).

Szeged is a horrible place full of communists, they still have communist major don't go there if you don't want to lose your sanity

keine

Really? I see you live in Szeged, is it really that bad? Ok how do you feel about Debrecen?

klsallee

No going somewhere too remote and rural would not be a good thing. We do need some urban! he hee.

FeliciaOni wrote:

No going somewhere too remote and rural would not be a good thing. We do need some urban! he hee.

Rural Hungary is like Rural East Coast US. Not really that far from larger towns or cities. Graz is about 90 drive from Szentgotthárd.

But if you want a much larger town, then consider looking into rental prices in Sopron on the Hungarian/Austrian border. About an hour from Vienna. Or Szombathely (2.5 -3 hours from Vienna by train).

P.S. Local elections are next month. And political differences run hot here and political commentary/rhetoric is heating up (not unlike red/blue differences in the States). As an American expat without any Hungarian relations or economic ties (you get income from the US not Hungary) you probably would not be affected much by local politics. A lot of American expats seem to like living in all sorts of countries, under all sorts of regimes and political systems. But of course, that is also why it is better to first rent in a city without any real commitment to remain, just to make sure you actually like that place.

Well I lived there for 10 years  I'm Hungarian and its a nice city, just everyone is communists there , with their mindset so it can be a tiny bit annoying, also bureocracy will be even more worse there due to communist mindset. You can't believe it I was a witness in court about one guy committing breach of peace , his radio was too noisy in his car Friday night and they made a full scale court case about it., and stuff like this...

Just visited Szeged last weekend, and I loved it.  I've been in Budapest 3 years now, and I'm fed up with the traffic, construction, dust and noise (and I've always lived in the outer districts, never downtown).  Szeged was an amazingly surprising vacation.
The downtown area is well-kept and charmingly European.  I definitely didn't feel like I was in Hungary, it was far too nice.  So much smaller than Budapest, much less traffic, beautiful gardens and walking areas.  The architecture is gorgeous and it's not so narrow high and crowded that you can't enjoy it (the way I feel Budapest is)
Everything was so cheap, we ate out every meal, had coffee and drinks and treats at the bar, and my husband and I NEVER do that.  I didn't worry once about our budget.
It's a university town with many international students, so they must be used to foreigners.

octobop

I am glad you enjoyed Szeged. It sounds like you had a good vacation. I keep hearing so many nice things about Szeged that i really am looking into it as a choice to move too. I honestly have not seen a lot of rentals there! But i am looking at it greatly, it is the southern great plains.

Hello!
so how far is Székesfehérvár from Szeged? and is it comparable to Szeged?
I'd like to know more about the area, if there's anything you can add, would be greatly appreciated.
Oh, just to say yes I do speak magyar, but need some practice as not all words come so easily as they used to
Thanx
Gyuri

sailinalone wrote:

so how far is Székesfehérvár from Szeged?

About 200 km. If driving, drive to Budapest and take M5 south (2-3 hour trip). Else you can take a bus or train (3-4 hours).

Every city has its charms. Székesfehérvár has a lot of history, most notable being that many Hungarian kings were crowned and were buried there.

Today it is an industrial city. And there are a lot of concrete block building there from the Communist period industrial buildup. This architectural "blemish" (my opinion), decreases my personal appeal for this particular city.

I am not sure I can qualify as an expat as I am from budapest, but lived in Vienna and Berlin from ages 16 to 36, and re-immigrated in 2012. After a short interlude at our family home in Budapest (when I started being active on this forum), I accepted a job in - out of all places - Debrecen (a research position at the university, my first proper job in Hungary).  The gig lasted 8 months. My pont: I was happy to return to Budapest.

As someone who likes to see himself as a world citizen, and coming from Berlin, I found Debrecen mindset too provincial, even at university (with exeptions of course). This was the first time for me that I encountered many students who did not like the idea of spending a semester abroad (erasmus program) "too difficult" "what for, I like it here"... (The university officiall does support the program, and univ. bureaucracy seems at least better than in Budapest)
There are nice things, too:
people seem more genuine, they often actually mean what they promise, more so than in Budapest.
My greatest problem was the "inpenetrable social networks" - even after many months I spent weekends there alone as the 5 "friends" in my mobile were not available.
  I believe, a major reason is, that at my age, and social status, there is nearly no immigration into Debrecen. As a starting issue, I needed a flatmate, but had to end up with a 20 year old fresman whom I could only interview on skype... for lack of choice.(Tragically, his home city Aleppo now lies in ruins)

I was told ("X moved from D to Szeged and said...")  there is rather significant cultural difference btwn Debrecen and Szeged, the latter one being much more open, enjoyable. Debrecen is a calvinist place (look at the Great Church), nicknamed "calvinist Rome" as at some point in history catholics were prohibited to settle there.  Religeous borders can often be associated with cultural borders, perhaps also in this case.

As a junior researcher at uni, I also found steep hierachies disturbing, but I was comparing to Berlin not to Budapest. At my present workplace at ELTE univ. Budapest, this is still much better.

There are around 3000 foreign students in D, as the University has done an excellent job in improving AND marketing its medical degree course in English (and some other degrees) in certain countries. Many arab, and african students are there, but also Israeli, Islandic, Korean students also form noted communities.
On the downside: generally speaking, the students who choose Debrecen tend to differ from those chosing, say, Berlin. Well, uhm, I was not satisfied with the level of intellectual air... with notable exceptions of course. These students of the Y generation are communicating on various FB-groups, not on forums like this.

I should to mention that my profile pic is also from Debrecen: I am standing at the main entrance of the Aula in the doctoral gown of the University:)
It was a nice ceremony - rituals are important there. (In Humboldt University Berlin where I actually got my degree there was not even any ceremony...)

Fireroller- Thanks for the info.

I as you can see in my profile pic i am way past collage days! My father and i are moving to Hungary next year and i will be 35 in January and he 58 in June so collage days are way behind us. But i do enjoy your info. There is some large collages here in FL where i live and unfortunately most things you say about collage kids is true here also. Which really is a shame cause i blamed much of it on bad USA culture but alas i am wrong!

Most collage people seem to keep to themselves greatly here in USA mainly due to they feel superior to others. That said if they were nice and open minded i do not really have many friends that young anyway. Nothing wrong with it just one is a different person when in mid 30s as i am.

But what you say about the Calvinist things is to be noted. I wonder if they limit what you can wear in public and things like that? I have lived in cities here in USA that are that bad so i hope Debrecen is not. It seems like Szeged is a close drive though so that is good, as Hungary is not a huge country. Like i will honestly say i could not even find any normal places to rent in Szeged. Everything i saw was holiday or vacation rentals where as i did see normal long term flats for rent in Debrecen. Which is one thing that is influencing me. 

I am curious more about the city, area as far as like how are the people? Is there much services or retail or whatnot? Is there tons of like blithe and ghetto which here seems to not be.

Oh thanks for clearing up about you photo! I thought it was a pic of a guy in a pagan high priest robe and you were like in a coven or something!

FeliciaOni wrote:

Like i will honestly say i could not even find any normal places to rent in Szeged.

You may need to use Hungarian key words in a search engine. I suggest to copy and paste the below Hungarian (so you get the special characters, ó and á, not on your American keyboard):

Szeged kiadó lakás

(translation kiadó = rental, lakás = apartment)

For example, this page popped right up (with many other sites) when I used the above search terms:

http://ingatlan.com/szeged/kiado+lakas

Then switch to the English version of the page.

Perhaps you could also consider a place near Budapest, like the town of Gödöllő? (Szentendre is nice but a bit touristic, hence expensive, perhaps with notable exceptions - probably Dezső can tell you more about it). There are also lots of nice villages around Budapest which may combine the best of both worlds (at least one car would be comfortable to have there).

I guess you have researched living costs, my educated guess is, 1500-2000 USD per months would well suffice for two persons to have a "western european" living standard in Budapest, while some 1100-1500 USD would be a first number for Debrecen. I mean a lifestyle with a nice, rented flat (in an apartment building), keeping a car and going out sometimes.


What may be of concern is healthcare costs. Navigating state healthcare well takes years of practice, so using some private doctors is easiest, sometimes even healthiest option. I perfer to have a decend amount at hand for emergencies like tooth ache.  I'd go so far as to say: if you'd have to rely on state healthcare for financial reasons, its perhaps better you go to a richer country where you can actually earn some money. State healthcare quality is not catastrophic, but also often not up to "western standards"... well, Its a complex, well discussed topic.

>I as you can see in my profile pic i am way past collage days! My father and i are moving to Hungary next year and i >will be 35 in January and he 58 in June so collage days are way behind us.
Well I was pro'ly 37 two years ago when I started working there.. I do enjoy the company of young people... but  more so of intelligent, well travelled people and that I found not easy to find. Also, mixed-age social gatherings are not really that usual(again comparing to berlin), and social networks, especially from locals(who moved there as freshmen and stayed) seemed hard to enter. Even if I chatted with one guy at work regularly, going for a beer at weeknd seemed imposible. Oh, and of course, most people in their 30s are partnered and many have kids. I mean the tendency is a norm more in line with study-get-married-get kids-around30  which is also against my more liberal norms. But these are just tendencies, its not like a village.

>But what you say about the Calvinist things is to be noted. I wonder if they limit what you can wear in public and >things like that? I have lived in cities here in USA that are that bad so i hope Debrecen is not.
Oh no, even without knowing the US, I think this is not comparable. Even with the recent slight revival of religious issues, I dont think Hungary can qualify as a pious country. The only person in my 8 months in D who ever asked me if I am religious was a nice student-girl I befriended. True, she was a surprised when I told her that I am not regligous at all, but I think this is already an unusual reaction (she is from a smaller village somewhere) and did not affect our friendship.
Also, my boss there was a budapest woman who was jewish (interestingly she is even somewhat religous which I rarely meet in Hungary even tho my father is of jewish descendance, too), and she is still a teacher there. On the other hand, she also complained to me about the tight social networks (in professional context), on the other hand, what can she expect if she only stays in D a few days per week in D and also, she is a bit crazy...

>It seems like Szeged >is a close drive though so that is good, as Hungary is not a huge country.
>Well that is a difference, many Europeans think in different terms from you when it comes to distance. For us >Szeged and Debrecen are not too close as road networks and especially train networks are centered around >Budapest. So travelling from D to Sz, you might get to Bp. first. Even in the worst case, its less than half a day.

Look at train schedules (from A to B at a given date)
http://www.elvira.hu/english/index.php

>Like i will honestly say i could not even >find any normal places to rent in Szeged. Everything i saw was holiday or >vacation rentals where as i did see normal >long term flats for rent in Debrecen. Which is one thing that is >influencing me. 

I think this is not real info, as klsallee already wrote. Of course you can rent places in Szeged, it is also a university town with slightly less students. But it is a more developed region of the country and this is something you see immediately if you go there. That makes Debrecen a cheaper place (except accomodation very close to the main Uni campus) with a good reason.

>I am curious more about the city, area as far as like how are the people? Is there much services or retail or >whatnot? Is there tons of like blithe and ghetto which here seems to not be.
"tons" "muich" "ghettos" - these are relative terms, for someone coming from Switzerland or Tirol, some parts of Debrecen may look shocking, but probably for someone who lived in a multi-milion US city it would feel very safe (as they will have grown up with the general rules not to get into trouble).
I never visited "bad" parts of D but they exist, it is a poor region after all. I think "bad" means in Hungary you should not walk there after darkness, perhaps also at daytime as a lone women is less advisable, but you cannot compare it to "ghettos" on the American continent (or Romania). This is at least my general impression, It must be said that the economic situation is not too good in general, and that hits the poorest and least educated.

Debrecen itself has not much in terms of natural beauties, only a small forest, but not even a proper lake. Szeged, on the other hand has the river Tisza and I think some hills as well. It is the second "coolest" place in Hungary, well ahead of Debrecen in reputation(I have met Budapest people who moved there and liked it, whereas in D I only spoke to an elderly man from Budapest whose comments seemed to go into the same general direction as mine, as far as I remember.

Much of this is very subjective, so you must go somewhere to see how you feel. You dont rent a flat without knowing the town, after all...

Fireroller

Thanks for the info. Yes we will have 2000 at least, we will know if more by about Jan. That is monthly take home without deductions, and we will have about 10,000 usd in savings so yes we are taking that in consideration for emergency savings. Hell that is for here in USA so we will continue that in Hungary. Healthcare here in USA is very bad believe me that is one thing we are prepared to deal with. So i feel Hungary will be just fine in this regard.

Thanks for the train info. I do not totally understand that. But it seems nice. I have heard that you can buy a nice used car in Hungary for around 1 thousand usd so i think we will be able to buy a car. But yes for longer trips trains or whatever public transport seems to work well.

It is good to hear the Debrecen is not that close minded! I have lived in parts of the USA that were so close minded that when you go out in public shopping and wearing dresses you would get bad treatment. Or if you are an black and white couple you may get poor treatment or no service at restaurants and slashed tires etc. This is in more so called progressive cities also.

Yes we will start in Debrecen to rent. Well i guess we will get a temporary place, find an apartment to rent for the first year. And spend much time finding a nice city to buy a house as soon as we can.

There is horrible ghettos in every country but we do not have the habit of residing in them. Debrecen seems to have some nice normal areas. And yes we will expand and look around the other cities also, but we are just going to start with Debrecen. As you have to start somewhere to live.

FeliciaOni wrote:

I have heard that you can buy a nice used car in Hungary for around 1 thousand usd .

Um. Well. No.

Used cars are typically overpriced in Hungary. You *can* buy a used car for 1,000 USD, but it is unlikely it will be a "nice" one.

One thing you need to know: Rumor, gossip and hearsay are common in Hungary. Believe nothing of what you hear, and only half of what you see.

klsallee wrote:

Used cars are typically overpriced in Hungary. You *can* buy a used car for 1,000 USD, but it is unlikely it will be a "nice" one..

Too right.  I reckon 20% over priced at least compared to other countries nearby.  Dealer prices unsurprisingly are very high.  I think most of the cars mileage here are clocked (faked to a lower mileage). An average car (say Opel Vectra) about 10-12 years old will cost around EUR 2000-3000 depending on the model. Remember also that older cars in Europe do not tend to come with "luxury" items as standard like all around electric windows and airconditioning and they are nearly all manual (not automatic gearboxes). One needs the manual class on the driving license to drive a manual car in Europe.

fluffy2560 wrote:

Remember also that older cars in Europe do not tend to come with "luxury" items as standard

Heck. Forget about luxury items. Consider even basic safety: I bought a new car in Hungary some years ago that did not have side air bags. Even though side air bags were *required* in the exact same model at the same time in the UK. And from driving in Hungary, versus driving (rarely but a few times) in the UK side air bags are much more important given the number of crazy divers here in Hungary.

I will take note of all of that. Yes i did see many manual cars which not cool but i guess one would have to learn.

klsallee wrote:

....And from driving in Hungary, versus driving (rarely but a few times) in the UK side air bags are much more important given the number of crazy divers here in Hungary.

Yes, that's right although cars have normalised features within the EU for basic safety, paid for extras like side air bags would be extra I'd have thought.    The road death statistics are much higher in HU than in the UK.  To quote the FCO (UK Foreign Ministry) - "In 2012 there were 605 road deaths in Hungary (source: DfT). This equates to 6.1 road deaths per 100,000 of population compared to the UK average of 2.8 road deaths per 100,000 of population in 2012".  So basically, even if a stretch to say it, your risk is doubled (but still quite low).  Difference cannot be down to drink driving (as no drinking and driving whatsoever in HU).

USA ranks 11.6 according to Wikipedia so it's safer in HU compared to US of A (Wikipedia Road Statistics Death Rate).  Best place: San Marino (everyone walks?). Worst: Eritrea (looks like an automotive massacre).

How much do trains cost per person? I looked at the link Fireroller sent and i was not totally understanding that aspect. It listed some by the year pass but i did not know if that is the discount or the price?

Roughly how much is trains going from city to city in Hungary? Like are the cities connected by rail?

FeliciaOni wrote:

Roughly how much is trains going from city to city in Hungary? Like are the cities connected by rail?

Go here and you can test out various routes.  Normally you pay for the ticket and a reservation for a seat. Rail lines go all over including long distances to other countries but they are not high speed.  In fact, the speeds can be absolutely dire.

Try this:

Elvira

Thanks fluffy!

Yes buying a house is something i plan on doing as soon as possible. So i may delay getting a car if i can get a house right away. My plan is to see if the 15 thousand cash i will have will buy a small free standing house. 

FeliciaOni wrote:

My plan is to see if the 15 thousand cash i will have will buy a small free standing house. 

I think that's a bit on the low side if you need to live in it immediately.  You might find something which could be fixed up.  In any case, best to rent first to see if you like the lie of the land. You should be able to get a pretty reasonable unfurnished apartment for $400 a month. That's plus bills. 

If you do buy, remember you need to pay a lawyer to draw up the contract and register the house in your name. You also need to pay the taxes (twice a year they send out the purchase/stamp duty tax demands - work on the basis of 10% of purchase costs due in fees, taxes etc). 

You should never hand over cash to anyone (whatsoever) on the promise you will be the owner.  Your cash will be gone in a flash and the perp nowhere to be found.  Best to pay through your lawyer so there's a bank record and professional indemnity. Always use a bank transfer. There are charlatans everywhere.

The land registry entries are definitive but it takes 2-3 weeks to get the property registered in your name. In the interim, you should not make any changes to the property in case it goes wrong.  As a non-EU citizen, your purchase could be rejected sometime after your purchase.  Having the keys is not sufficient to know if you are the owner.

FeliciaOni wrote:

Like are the cities connected by rail?

Certainly not all of them. And train is often not the best option (old and clunky equipment on many lines).

Except of major transportation corridors (where modern trains do dominate and are quite nice) I recommend considering the bus. Most bus lines have modern upgraded vehicle and I often prefer taking the bus myself. And buses go everywhere in Hungary, and are often cheaper than the train.

Bus schedules in Hungary:

http://ujmenetrend.cdata.hu/uj_menetrend/en/index.php

FeliciaOni wrote:

My plan is to see if the 15 thousand cash i will have will buy a small free standing house. 

As fluffy2560 said you get a fixer-upper at that price, which requires both additional capital and patience. And few deals like that will be available near large cities. At that rate you will be mostly looking into rural areas.

And if you want to know what you have to do to renovate an old Hungarian house, look at my blog where I have chronicled just part of this endeavor:

http://stcoemgen.com/category/renovating/

My Hungarian friend goes back and forth between Vancouver and Debrecen. She says that it is very good. and the people are nice!

I second that. Debrecen went through a HUGE, I mean an unexpectedly huge change over the past few years. I graduated from their local university and now after I have moved back to some other part of Hungary I'm seriously thinking of moving there in the future. I don't know if you ended up moving to Debrecen or not since it's an awfully long thread to read it all, however, I scanned through quickly and I think there are a few things you need to consider if you're still debating, whether you should move to Debrecen: in the time you first asked this question the city was very different, right now huge companies are investing in the city (BMW is also building a factory), the city is competing in the European Capital of Culture Programme, night life and restaurant scene is flourishing, contemporary art museum has revived, airport has a significant traffic and fairly good service now and it's only getting better so all those aspects - cultural, economical etc. - that commenters have previously mentioned were missing, seem to have caught up and life is becoming more and more convenient and enjoyable there. I mean, what other university in Hungary, let alone any small town in Europe has more than 10,000 foreign students? Just take a look at the university's website, it's a truly great one and offers various services and programs not only for students.  In all honesty I love to see how the city develops each time I visit but at the same time I regret that I haven't stayed.

This thread is 4 years old!

We know that

yesol86 wrote:

I mean, what other university in Hungary, let alone any small town in Europe has more than 10,000 foreign students? Just take a look at the university's website,

I did. It said 5,077 international students were enrolled in 2017, not 10,000:

https://unideb.hu/en/university-debrece … nd-figures

Oh, I thought it was more than 10, 000, that's what I've heard. Doesn't change my opinion at all.. so your point is? In case I might have missed something.

yesol86 wrote:

so your point is?

My point is: if you failed to get that simple, confirmable fact correct, and you simply repeat "what you heard" you are spreading false information. And, ergo, if you failed there, what other of your so called claims have you failed to get correct because you "just heard them"? Maybe all of them?

Your posts reads like a promotion. But if you can not get an easily confirmable fact correct, why would anyone believe anything else you wrote?

Hate to say it, but the world is awash with comments by people who do not bother to confirm even basic facts before publishing. Worse is, you do not even seem to "get it" by asking what my point it...... My point also thus can be expanded to: making comments that are not true is not just annoying, but irresponsible.

Apart from the argument above, maybe the thread needs an update on how Debrecen has changed.