Is posssible to buy 25 Ha Land in Karangasem or Kintamani area?

Komank, I was up in the Kintamani area all day today and did a little checking as I had other reasons to be there.

Three issues at play, the first one being the high difficulty factor in finding that much land currently held by a single owner under one Hak Milik.  In Karangasem that will even be more difficult. 

What that means is somewhat obvious and tricky, that being to be able to buy large chunks of adjoining land without “person B” (or “C” or “D” etc.) finding out from “person A” (or another source) that a big company is trying to buy up a huge parcel of land…and let's face it, 25 hectares in Bali is indeed a huge chunk of land.

The other issue is price.  Depending on where in the Kintamani (or Karangasem) area one is looking at, land prices are currently ranging (and this is Balinese to Balinese) from 70 million to over 125 million minimum per are and in many cases, considerably more.  Of course one could expect a reasonable discount when buying a large chunk, but that assumes again that one could find a single owner of that much land in either area.

The third issue is current zoning in effect, and as you might imagine, a great deal of the land in the Kintamani area is zoned agricultural/farming.  It would be no small hurdle to get such land re-zoned for commercial development these days.  And personally, between you and me…I would hate to see that happen. 

In general, and I know this from personal experience, whenever a foreign business entity is looking to develop a large track of land here in Bali, the general rule of thumb is for that company's representative to fly over to Bali and meet with the Bupati of the appropriate regency where the foreign business entity wants to set up shop.  Getting something done on the scale you are talking about will be impossible without the involvement and support of the Regency Bupati.

Hi, Pak Ubudian,
thanks so much for your whole point of view. I really appreciate it. It made me known regarding real situation based on your personal experience trough Kintamani area.

As i explained before, I haven't experience for doing property business for both area, so I felt bit doubt. although my client ware already discusses about possibilities for set up a new PMA or joint venture with PT in Bali for those aim. They had prepared budget for investment fund include land acquisition, setting up a PMA or venture, and everything in relevance case by case. the main concern they took are about possibilities for purchasing land. include legal and permit. that's why i need advice from whom had experienced regarding that case like you.

I will re discussing with my client for other possibilities.

great contribution Pak Ubudian,

terima kasih.

Om Swastiastu Komank.

To be honest, if you were other than Balinese I probably would have never answered your question.

I am in constant inner turmoil over the need and the right for the Balinese to improve their economic situation here in Bali, but at the same time I have great angst when I see tracts of Balinese land being “sold off” to outsiders…either to other Indonesians, or foreigners.

As you, a Balinese, are well aware, land is a precious part of Bali Hindu Agama and Balinese culture.  If the selling trend continues, the Balinese will eventually abdicate their culture and way of life.  It seems to me that a puputan would be better.

I know many Balinese who seriously regret their earlier decision to sell ancestral lands, and as some have said, “I would have been better off to sell my right hand.”

The temptation to sell gets worse each and every year as land prices continue to escalate to sums that couldn't have been imagined as little as ten years ago.

Only time, and he Gods, will reveal the consequences.

really really possible,especially with that budget,many property agent will help you to find the land,but the key is,your client only buy that land if all permit for resort is clear,the details you can notary to do that

“really really possible,especially with that budget…”

I am breathless with the number of non Balinese would be real estate agents who endlessly espouse that which is nearly impossible here in Bali.

Danny, if you honestly think a budget of 40 million an are in most all parts of either the Kintamani or Karangasem area of Bali is plausible, then you are truly 100% out of touch with reality here in Bali.

maybe because you're foreigner you get expensive price,its not hard to find land with that price in that area,if you said its impossible,I'll be glad to show you.

Ubudian wrote:

To be honest, if you were other than Balinese I probably would have never answered your question.

Ubudian wrote:

I am breathless with the number of non Balinese would be real estate agents who endlessly espouse that which is nearly impossible here in Bali.

Your racism disgusts me more and more as well as your posts.
Get a real life.

whaaaaaat???? racism?????
that's my advice, everybody know if foreigner will get more expensive,
sorry then if you think indonesian people are racism.
many people will know i'm telling the true, with that budget, yes he can do it!!!
I'm really really sorry to hear that,if u think that i'm racism ,
really not good discuss

Danny, I'm talking about Balinese to Balinese price and the person who asked the question initiating this string, who is Balinese, is well aware of what I write.  IDR 40 juta per are for land suitable for resort development in either of those two areas is simply not realistic.   

When talking land prices in Bali one will quickly learn there are most often three price structures in play…Balinese to Balinese, Balinese to other than Balinese Indonesian and Balinese to foreigner.  And that is precisely why I don't do the land shopping in my family business…my wife, her sister and brothers handle that.

Danny, as for Manuel, he was addressing me as a racist, which is rather funny if you think about it.  Anyway, just ignore him and he'll eventually go away.

Really really thanks for your explanation, please explain to him, we just give positive input, sharing experience,
making new friend.........
My english isn't good, i'm afraid if i write many sentences people will misunderstanding again,
Thanks,

Hi, Pak Ubudian, Danny, Manuel.

thanks a lot for all your contribution regarding my topic above. It's so usefully for whole pictures trough both area for property investment. I will keep in mind.

My partner would considering for exchange their investment plan just after i told them for situation actually in Bali to be acquiring an existing company who owned a running property business and have a reliable cash flow and already operated. They wanna establish their portfolio without entering stock market at IDX Jakarta.They wanna make a real investment not just for hot money to the companies.

That's why we will prepare all necessary case by case till passed due diligence.

best regards

cheers!

Komank is not fool and likely has already read my response to your post here:

https://www.expat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=273486

Ubudian, Clearly Manu84 has a dislike for you and your posts. Is it the hat do you think?

The hat isn't a hat, rather it's a udung which is more head wrapping (a long special cloth) than a hat, and it's an essential element of adat dress for the Balinese.

I converted to Bali Agama Hindu almost 16 years ago, and wearing Balinese adat attire is far more usual and comfortable for me.  At home on any given day I am dressed in a kambing (aka sarong) and not shorts.

I hope my life choices, and what I wear have nothing to do with how the content of my posts are taken, but for sure I understand exactly what you infer.   

Cheers Luke, Roy

[Moderated: Please use your private msg]

I have been offered 87 are in karangasem if anyone's interested.

Manu84 you appear to like throwing insults readily, your flag indicates that you come from Italy. Before you label someone as a racist, please remember how your home country (Italy) treats those less fortunate, eg asylum seekers from Africa unfortunate enough to land on Italian shores, the Romany etc. One gets the impression from your Avatar that you are an internationalist but your view is very very shallow. I agree without reservation with all Ubudian's comments on this subject since I also hate to see a huge chunk of land in Kintamani fall into foreign hands only to be turned into a ghastly, tasteless disneyland type park.

The word about town is that he's no longer here due to some “visa irregularities” although I have no confirmation about that.  You'll note his website is also inactive.

God, how I love Bali!  ;<)

And another one bites the dust.....  

Can do without people like that.

It's called kharma, and it's nothing to fool with!   

if you are serious i can find the people to help you< where are you now?
Thanks
ZAGS

zulags wrote:

if you are serious i can find the people to help you< where are you now?
Thanks
ZAGS

So you are living in Yemen. What sort of help are you offering ???

I am an American but my husband is Balinese. I have seen terrible things happening to Bali in the past 2 years. Bali is becoming completely overdeveloped. People come to Bali TO SEE THE LAND. Bali is beautiful BECAUSE OF THE LAND. If resorts and restaurants are built on almost all of the land, then what will tourists come to Bali for? People are so greedy that it makes me sick. Charging $500 a night for a room at a resort, but then only paying the employees $100 a month. All I have to say is that these greedy "investors" will have to face karma someday. The Balinese people will retaliate and resent the tourists and then all of those friendly Balinese smiles will be gone. In my husband's village, they have made a new rule not to sell land to foreign investors or local investors who want to use the land for a resort. And good luck with running a hotel in a small village. There is already a resort in my husband's village and they once promoted the wrong employee and all the people of the village went directly to the hotel to confront the manager. When the manager wouldn't reverse the promotion, the people of the village started a huge fire next to the hotel in order to make trouble. Many Balinese people have nothing to lose, therefore, if you make them angry they will react quickly and together as a community. My advice to you is this: find another island to put your disgusting resort on. Bali is too crowded.

Two thumbs up from me, and a hip, hip hooray too!   

You and your Balinese husband will be pleased to know that a number of recent NGO's and Yayasans have emerged in recent years with the objective of protecting the land of Bali from exactly what you are talking about.

One such organization is Sawah Bali:  www.sawahbali.org  You might want to have a look at their web site.

I can tell you with absolute certainty that mood among the Balinese outside of the already ruined southern zone is very much pro preservation.  Several Regencies have put a block on issuing any further building licenses for commercial resorts, land has been put aside and zoned only for agriculture,  huge tracks Tabanan are now under UNESCO heritage site protection...etc. etc. 

After 16 years of sadly watching Bali getting paved over and sawah after sawah disappearing, I am very upbeat about the current change of attitude here.

Cheers!

That's great to hear! My husband has a couple pieces of land and we wont sell them. We don't care about money. We care about the beauty of Bali and preserving that. If the price of land wasn't so high, my husband and I would buy more land and create a community farm and garden for his village. The Balinese culture is so sacred and it must be preserved.

In a word....Yup!   

Can you contact me privately at [email protected]

Doberman wrote:

Can you contact me privately at [email protected]

I would strongly suggest posters do not.
If it isn't published in open forum or in the ads section, it may well be less than honest.

Doberman wrote:

Can you contact me privately at [email protected]

You can message me to:
[email protected]

Doberman, if you want to have a private discussion on this forum with a poster, then use the Private Message function and offer your e-mail address there. 

Since your post immediately followed mine, were you asking me to contact you?  If so, please write to me first via Private Message and we can go from there.

As one of those pesky tourists who did nothing beneficial for the place, I would strongly agree that the people of Bali do everything they can to stop the march of progress as much as possible.  Tourists might like all the conveniences of home, but I found the southern end of Bali very bland.  It was like a million other overpopulated tourist spots.  Farther north was much better.  If that all becomes highways and Starbucks, what's the point of ever going to Bali?

HaileyinHongKong wrote:

As one of those pesky tourists who did nothing beneficial for the place, I would strongly agree that the people of Bali do everything they can to stop the march of progress as much as possible.  Tourists might like all the conveniences of home, but I found the southern end of Bali very bland.  It was like a million other overpopulated tourist spots.  Farther north was much better.  If that all becomes highways and Starbucks, what's the point of ever going to Bali?

Hailey, you have a very good point here 

Have no worries Hailey, things are changing.

For the better or worse?