Canadian to marry my VN gf in vietnam but no canadian coming ?

Call Hertz Rent-a-Canadian.  They have good rates.

Which part of the wedding ceremony would you want them to witness?

The legal part, in the Justice Ministry, is as exciting as renewing your driving licence.

Perhaps you could invite the Canadian Consul, or some of his Canadian staff, they are always good for free food and booze.

I could come along and pretend to be a Canadian, aye? I am good at accents and my sister is a fully paid up passport carrying Canadian, so much so that she's gay too. Although I am assured that it is acceptable but not mandatory in Canada.

Will I be able to drink Triple Crown rye whiskey and dry ginger?

Anyway, as the insect just said, going through the marriage ceremony at the Ministry of Justice is about as interesting as watching washing drying. You have to sign some forms after a few irrelevant questions  (example, "how old are you" even though you have given your age on countless documents - and the guy is holding your passport, which has your DOB in it). And thats it.

Your best bet is to tell your fiancee that you should go to Canada to get married - and take her to somewhere like Petawawa in January, the snow is so romantic!

You need to find out the real reasons behind the resistance.
Without details from you, I am speculating about possible reasons:
1.    Fear of you pretending to marry her: It has been reported in the press about cases that the guy is already married, but lying to the girl that he is not. He went to the girl hometown to have a wedding ceremony. The girl found out about the other wife later on. To make her feel safe about this, you may want to show her more about you, even consider bringing her to Canada beforehand so she has a chance to get to know about your family (parents, friends,..)
2.    Fear of losing face with relatives: here the problem is not her own anxiety, but her familys. She (or her family) wants to have a big ceremony and to show you (and your family) to everyone. In Vietnam, not having your family at the ceremony means that your family does not accept the marriage and you go ahead to do it by your own. In this scenario, the standard Vietnamese solution has been renting a family as mentioned by others before. No kidding. There are many agencies providing actors for this purpose. If her family accepts innovative solution, how about a Skype with your family and friends in Canada during the Vietnamese ceremony giving a toast to the family of the bride?

One more point. I am sure you know about it, but just want to make sure.

To motivate your friend, don't make him think as it is "work" to attend your wedding. Make it part of a excursion package combining with, say, tours to Halong bay, Hong kong or Phuket. I have seen it work great for friends who were initially reluctant to take their time off to travel to far-off countries to attend weddings  .

BIGAMY IS BIG with some Canadian Vietnamese. So is lying.

If your proposed Missus is wary, she should be. (You can always get a form from Births/Marriages - for Ontario in Thunderbay)

Some single Vietnamese-Canadians buy a suit then come over here and claim they are an engineer or a doctor. They get hitched here in VietNam and taken back to Canada where they realise they have been tricked.

One guy who did this sold fruit and vegetable on Spadina Avenue in Toronto. The VN woman was a really outstanding beauty. When she realised what had happened she found a lawyer, got divorced and married another guy who WAS rich.

Vietnamese, and ASEAN country people, only have to swear an affidavit whereas all others have to come up with all the documentation from their governments to get married.

Yet other Viet Kieu have TWO families, one here in VN and the other in their adopted country.

Anatta wrote:

If her family accepts innovative solution, how about a Skype ...

Then the NSA and GCHQ will join you.

EODmatt

"Your best bet is to tell your fiancee that you should go to Canada to get married - and take her to somewhere like Petawawa in January, the snow is so romantic!"

Better yet, parachute into Petawawa in January, the weather is sooo inviting, and the Drop Zone so soft and cuddly!

Jaitch wrote:

Anatta wrote:

If her family accepts innovative solution, how about a Skype ...

Then the NSA and GCHQ will join you.

The more the merrier. OP's concern is no Canadian joining him, now he'll have the CSEC (Communications Security Establishment Canada) participating  .

lirelou wrote:

EODmatt

"Your best bet is to tell your fiancee that you should go to Canada to get married - and take her to somewhere like Petawawa in January, the snow is so romantic!"

Better yet, parachute into Petawawa in January, the weather is sooo inviting, and the Drop Zone so soft and cuddly!

I'd take her to Yukon to watch the Northern Lights (Aurora Borealis).

Hi, Thanks for your reply. To clarify i'm a caucasian canadian and she talk english and french. I was one of her pen pal at first for 3 months.

We know each other very well so far and nothing to hide (I hope lol but I'm 99% sure now). She talk with me on cam even when I'm at my job(on my break), so she know where i work. Her concern is what her family will think, her neighbor if I'm alone at our marriage. I  asked about having a big LCD with skype for my family at our weeding ceremony but she wants one real person at least and not a rent one But when she told me not come if i'm alone i was surprised. I don't think I could be the first canadian to go to vietnam alone for his marriage. And she is affraid too for the sponsorship demand if I'm alone at our marriage in case it could take more time to be together.

And for a tourist Visa for canada, i've read it's very difficult to obtain for her. Almost impossible in fact. It's interesting but if it's refused, does it affect the sponsorship demand?

Thanks.

tixou wrote:

I don't think I could be the first canadian to go to vietnam alone for his marriage.

I'm sure you're right about that, and that is the crux of he matter.  It's quite easy for one person to lie about being married (not saying you are), but not so easy to get other people to join in on the deception.  It sounds like that's her thinking at least, and can you blame her?

Frankly, this is just the first example of the cultural challenges you're going to encounter in your relationship.  If I were you, I'd slow it down and figure out a way to be together for an extended period of time BEFORE getting married.  Three weeks isn't enough.  The reality is you living in Vietnam for a while would likely be more feasible than bringing her to Canada, so you should try to do that.   The odds of you marrying her, and soon after bringing her to your country, and living happily ever after are very low.  A lot of people think "we can do it because love conquers all!" are deluding themselves.  After the 4-6 month honeymoon period, multiple difficult realities will set in, and it's highly unlikely you will have the skills as a couple to deal with them.

With $10,000 in the bank, you can easily live in Vietnam for 6 months.   (And if you don't have $10,000 to spare, you really shouldn't be thinking about marrying a woman from the other side of the world, because you're also going to have financial challenges in addition to cultural ones, and believe me, this woman probably thinks you're rich.  If, once she gets to Canada, she finds out you're just an average working-class guy and sees her everyday standard of living has declined (because it's freezing there, she can't get her favorite food, everything is ridiculously expensive, she has no friends or family, etc.), slowly but surely you're going to have one pissed-off bride on your hands.)

Oh, and by the way, hopefully you've already asked her if it's okay if you and her live together as husband and wife in Vietnam.  If she really loves you, she would say "of course!" and probably prefer it.  If she hesitates, then you ought to be very wary of the situation.

Good luck, son.  You're going to need it. 

The idea of the OP moving to Vietnam temporarily is not a bad idea. However, I would not bet on she readily agreeing on co-habiting right away.
It depends on a lot of her environment. Vietnam is still a conservative society. Cohabiting is rare. With a foreigner even rarer.

From what you have given us, she probably has some education (capable of speaking two foreign languages) so she may be a bit liberated in her thinking. However, she seems to care a lot what her family and her neighbors are thinking. If she lives in her hometown, chances are great that she still lives with her parents. It is nearly impossible for the family to have a foreign future son-in-law living with them.
Even she lives in another town, I would not be surprised that she declines.

However, I am surprised by her rigid attitude of either my way or the highway in insisting that you bringing along one person (not matter whom). Frankly, it should raise a red flag about her flexibility in working with you to find a solution. That attitude is unusual, even taking into account her suspicion about your motive.

Anatta wrote:

The idea of the OP moving to Vietnam temporarily is not a bad idea. However, I would not bet on she readily agreeing on co-habiting right away.
It depends on a lot of her environment. Vietnam is still a conservative society. Cohabiting is rare. With a foreigner even rarer.

Although I don't think it's uncommon for engaged couple to cohabitate in Vietnam, usually depending on the parents, I wasn't suggesting they do so.  I just said "be together", which could mean he lives in an apartment in the same town that she does  (hence, needing $10,000). 

However, I am surprised by her rigid attitude of either my way or the highway in insisting that you bringing along one person (not matter whom). Frankly, it should raise a red flag about her flexibility in working with you to find a solution. That attitude is unusual, even taking into account her suspicion about your motive.

I don't really agree.   I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt and I respect that she has boundaries.  The fact that she's willing to say, "this situation doesn't meet my standards, so let's forget it" is a much better sign than if she were saying "let's do this at all costs."

To the OP, here's the general rule of women in Vietnam:  The ones you want to marry are the ones who don't want to leave, and the ones who are desperate to get out should be avoided.

That statement will inflame a number of people I'm sure (to which they're free to argue to their heart's content) but if you follow that rule, you'll be in a much better position.  It sounds like your girl passes the test, so be thankful.

Well,
What standard? She is asking him to do things he is not capable doing, despite of his utmost efforts.

That makes me worry about what other "standards" she has. A new car, a big paying job, big house, yearly visiting Vietnam. If he is not able of meeting them too, is it also meeting it or hitting the highway?

He is shown that he is trying. She is putting forth an superficial demand: anyone will do, as long as it is not fake. For what? It is that easy to break off a wedding, I wonder how easy it is to break when the couple meets challenges of their real difference and the tough demand of the marriage life.

It's disturbing that you jump to suggesting this woman is a gold-digger when nothing the OP has said suggested she is.  That's a strawman argument of the worst kind.

Since you asked here's her standard, as far as I can tell based on the OP:  "If you want me to marry you and give up my entire life in Vietnam to come live with you in your country, I require that you bring at least one of your family members to our wedding.  That will make me and my family feel better about me leaving.  Otherwise, I am not comfortable with the situation and feel the risks are too great."

Whether you agree with that or not, isn't really up to you, because it's her life.  And whether she has or will ask for a car, a big house, or any other material item is not relevent here, because there's no evidence to support that she has or will.

DanFromSF wrote:

It's disturbing that you jump to suggesting this woman is a gold-digger when nothing the OP has said suggested she is.  That's a strawman argument of the worst kind.

I don't know where you get the idea I am suggesting that she is a gold-digger. If you are more comfortable with a non-monetary standard, about this: "I want three kids: at least a boy. If you are not willing to meet them, then..." or "I want you to come home at 4PM everyday, even if your boss demands otherwise, because all of my neighbors' husbands do so,... if you are not doing it, then". Better?

Since you asked here's her standard, as far as I can tell based on the OP:  "If you want me to marry you and give up my entire life in Vietnam to come live with you in your country, I require that you bring at least one of your family members to our wedding.  That will make me and my family feel better about me leaving.  Otherwise, I am not comfortable with the situation and feel the risks are too great."

Whether you agree with that or not, isn't really up to you, because it's her life.  And whether she has or will ask for a car, a big house, or any other material item is not relevent here, because there's no evidence to support that she has or will.

You are free to interpret it that way. If it is really her concern, I would respect that, but the OP is saying that the concern is about what her family and her neighbors think. Not what she is concerned. Besides, I don't see she is willing to work with him to find ways to address that risk, if it is she who is concerned: How about talking to his parents on Skype? Getting to know about his parents? How about getting her family to know more about him? What does bringing a friend really help (she is not asking only for a family member, just any Canadian he knows)? What has SHE done, apart from just demanding?
The ultimate test is whether the demand is reasonable. I don't have problem with the demand, but if he is not capable then does she really love him that much to reconsider? If she does not trust him that much to enter into a marriage, then she is not ready. Marriage is after all a leap of faith.

PS: For your info, my whole family of 7 persons traveled from Europe to Asia when we got married. My wife NEVER demanded it, she would understand it if my family did not show up. My parents just thought it would be appropriate and polite to her family to do so.

All the posters have at least one good point but how are we going to make progress if we argue with each other about what Tixou means? I suggest having the girlfriend join the forum and discuss the problem since its coming from her.

That said, I have not myself ever heard a girl demand family presence at a wedding, for whatever reason. If its truly a requirement and family cannot come, there isnt going to be a wedding and its time to move on. *IF* she believes in her heart that the reason you called it off is because your family wont come because they cannot keep up the guise of Tixou's real present marriage in Canada, thats her problem. Hopefully she doesnt think that but who cares?

As to the "demands/goldigging" argument, I can say for myself, my own experience, that MANY times a woman has stated Pre-Conditions A, B, and C for something, anything. You think all there is only A B and C and when you meet the pre-conditions and think the work is done, here comes Conditions D E and F. If the woman told you about DEF, you may never have first agreed to ABC. DAN-SF, I believe thats what Anatta was talking about. MY experience is that the average Asian doesnt tell you everything, they sell you ideas in steps. "There is just one more thing.....there is just one more thing" and it basically never ends. Thats not golddigging but the concept is similar and its a form of deceit to a westerner's ears. Before I agree to something i want to hear ALLLLL the conditions first, not this BS idea of "agreement in steps."  Hate that.

(Not to digress, but once I sold a house in USA to Viet immigrants. They stated, just agree to this and this and we have a deal. We made the deal and the ink wasnt even dry and they asked for "just one more thing and we wont ask for anything else." After you agree, its "ok thank you so much. Now, there is just two more little things, can you agree to them?" This ploy didnt end and resulted in serious fights and the worst ill feelings among everyone involved. That was 20 years ago and still I think about it.)

Anatta wrote:

I don't know where you get the idea I am suggesting that she is a gold-digger.

Sorry, I figured you'd remember what you wrote, or at least scroll up.  It was when you said this that gave me that idea:

Anatta wrote:

That makes me worry about what other "standards" she has. A new car, a big paying job, big house, yearly visiting Vietnam.

If you are more comfortable with a non-monetary standard, about this: "I want three kids: at least a boy. If you are not willing to meet them, then..." or "I want you to come home at 4PM everyday, even if your boss demands otherwise, because all of my neighbors' husbands do so,... if you are not doing it, then". Better?

That's pretty far fetched, frankly.  The OP says he trusts her.  Considering he's the one here who has actually met her, let's respect his intelligence and go with that, shall we?

You are free to interpret it that way. If it is really her concern, I would respect that, but the OP is saying that the concern is about what her family and her neighbors think. Not what she is concerned.

And obviously she is concerned about her family's concerns.   Is this a new concept for you when dealing with Vietnamese?

Besides, I don't see she is willing to work with him to find ways to address that risk, if it is she who is concerned: How about talking to his parents on Skype? Getting to know about his parents? How about getting her family to know more about him? What does bringing a friend really help (she is not asking only for a family member, just any Canadian he knows)? What has SHE done, apart from just demanding?

I think you're missing my point that this whole situation is non-ideal to begin-with and if the issue of whether a Canadian shows up at their wedding is a deal-breaker, then if the OP truly loves her, he would be wise to take 6 months of his life to get to know her better before marrying.  Skype isn't a replacement for that and when he (inevitably) pisses her off about something in the future, do you really  want to set him up to deal with her saying "you couldn't even get one of your relatives to show up at our wedding..."?  (hint:  women don't forget)

The ultimate test is whether the demand is reasonable. I don't have problem with the demand, but if he is not capable then does she really love him that much to reconsider? If she does not trust him that much to enter into a marriage, then she is not ready. Marriage is after all a leap of faith.

Reasonable to whom?  It doesn't matter what your or anybody else thinks about her beliefs.  It's not your decision and I'm sure the OP can make up his own mind about whether she's reasonable.

As far as I'm concerned, If she isn't comfortable with giving up her entire life given the situation at hand, not only is that a completely defensible position, but she's not unusual in that respect.  And, by the way, Good For Her. I don't see what's wrong with a woman who stands up for what she believes in, even IF it's "only" her family's feelings that she's worried about.    The OP is free to decide whether that's a positive or negative.

PS: For your info, my whole family of 7 persons traveled from Europe to Asia when we got married. My wife NEVER demanded it, she would understand it if my family did not show up. My parents just thought it would be appropriate and polite to her family to do so.

Sorry, I don't see the relevence.  You, your family, and your wife are not the OP, his family, and his (possible) future wife.  Your (collective) decisions, attitudes and situation have no bearing on his.

cvco wrote:

As to the "demands/goldigging" argument, I can say for myself, my own experience, that MANY times a woman has stated Pre-Conditions A, B, and C for something, anything. You think all there is only A B and C and when you meet the pre-conditions and think the work is done, here comes Conditions D E and F.

Did you ever just think of saying "No"?

cvco,
Thanks for adding to the discussion.
My opinion is more along the line of a marriage being a partnership with giving and taking and accepting each others' constraints and working together to meet problems.
If now things are still rosy, and she already insisting on things being not negotiable despite his best efforts, just wait until things get really tough.

Is this a new concept for you when dealing with Vietnamese?

As for DanSF and his ultimate wisdom, I have said all I need to say. What else do I know about women and Vietnamese culture: I am just a "common" Vietnamese born and bred, and have been together with my wife for just 20 years  .

Anatta wrote:

As for DanSF and his ultimate wisdom, I have said all I need to say. What else do I know about women and Vietnamese culture: I am just a "common" Vietnamese born and bred, and have been together with my wife for just 20 years  .

Oh, so you're not a Canadian caucasian male who only recently met a Vietnamese woman who he's considering marrying and is in a difficult situation!  Because until now I thought your situation so closely resembled the OP that the choices you and your family made (20+ years ago) apply to him as well.

Thanks for clarifying.



.

DanFromSF wrote:

Anatta wrote:

As for DanSF and his ultimate wisdom, I have said all I need to say. What else do I know about women and Vietnamese culture: I am just a "common" Vietnamese born and bred, and have been together with my wife for just 20 years  .

Oh, so you're not a Canadian caucasian male who only recently met a Vietnamese woman who he's considering marrying and is in a difficult situation!  Because until now I thought your situation so closely resembled the OP that the choices you and your family have made apply to him as well.

Thanks for clarifying.

Kiddo, listen and learn.
I met Thai wife. My family was strongly against it, so was hers. I had to work 5 years to get their blessings,. They eventually volunteered to travel to my wedding even though some of them still had their misgivings, but that may be 100% relevant for the discussion?

What do YOU have in relevant experience? A bit of humility may help.

Anatta wrote:

Kiddo, listen and learn.
I met Thai wife. My family was strongly against it. I had to work 5 years to get their blessings,. They eventually volunteered to travel to my wedding even though some of them still had their misgivings, but that may be 100% relevant for the discussion?

What do YOU have in relevant experience? A bit of humility may help.

Well, gramps, let this whipper-snapper tell you:  I don't believe you can use your life and your decisions as a standard by which others should live their lives and make their decisions.  I also believe in giving people the benefit of the doubt (mainly because going through life suspicious of everybody is depressing),  which I think the OP and his love interest deserve.  What *you* (or I for that matter) think you know about the OP's relationship is probably a LOT different than reality and therefore coming up with fantastical situations where this woman is potentially a conniving shrew based on the thinnest of evidence does nobody any good.

My central point:  If the OP wants to have a chance at a successful marriage with this woman, the reality is he should move to Vietnam for six months (minimum) and take it from there. 

Feel free to disagree, but if your whole argument against that is insinuating that you have the life experiences that I don't, and therefore I'm wrong, well, that's not very compelling, is it?

Again I am asking.
You demanded me to show my credentials, so I did. No one experience is 100% exact, the question is whether is relevant.
What you have in relevant experience in this topic so that we can believe what you have to say since you seemed to teach me how to act in this situation and behave to the Vietnamese in general.

Anatta wrote:

Again I am asking.
You demand me to show my credentials, so I did. No one experience is 100% exact, the question is whether is relevant.
What you have in relevant experience in this topic so that we can believe what you have to say?

LOL. Have you been tested for dementia, pops?   In no way did I demand your credentials.  "Is this a new concept for you in dealing with Vietnamese?" is either a rhetorical question, or simple Yes or No.  It's unfortunate that you misinterpreted that as a demand for credentials, but that's not my fault.

Further, I don't care about your background, I only care what you have to say.   Stick to the topic and tell me why I'm wrong.  Thanks!

I am out here. I am here to offer whatever advices I may think is useful since that is what the OP is asking. I don't have time for smart asses, especially for those who don't have guts to admit what they have said.

Jaitch wrote:

Anatta wrote:

If her family accepts innovative solution, how about a Skype ...

Then the NSA and GCHQ will join you.

I very much doubt that NSA and GCHQ have any interest in someones family hook ups on the internet. But if it really worries people, they could wear a tin foil hat to ease their paranoia and to stop those security organisations from reading their thoughts.

Anatta wrote:

I am out here. I am here to offer whatever advices I may think is useful since that is what the OP is asking. I don't have time for smart asses, especially for those who don't have guts to admit what they have said.

Great.  Even though you said "I have said all I need to say" three posts ago, hopefully this time you mean it.  If not, I hope you stick to the topic at hand, instead of trying to make this about you and your life.

Vietnamese woman here, but I must work now. I will tell OP something at lunch break 

Nice day everyone!

ngattt wrote:

Vietnamese woman here, but I must work now. I will tell OP something at lunch break 

Hurry up.  And I hope you bring enough ca phe sua da for everyone.

Anatta wrote:

The idea of the OP moving to Vietnam temporarily is not a bad idea. However, I would not bet on she readily agreeing on co-habiting right away.
It depends on a lot of her environment. Vietnam is still a conservative society. Cohabiting is rare. With a foreigner even rarer.

From what you have given us, she probably has some education (capable of speaking two foreign languages) so she may be a bit liberated in her thinking. However, she seems to care a lot what her family and her neighbors are thinking. If she lives in her hometown, chances are great that she still lives with her parents. It is nearly impossible for the family to have a foreign future son-in-law living with them.
Even she lives in another town, I would not be surprised that she declines.

However, I am surprised by her rigid attitude of either my way or the highway in insisting that you bringing along one person (not matter whom). Frankly, it should raise a red flag about her flexibility in working with you to find a solution. That attitude is unusual, even taking into account her suspicion about your motive.

Not only that, it is actually illegal for a foreigner to co habit with a Vietnamese girl in Vietnam - and the police do check.

DanFromSF wrote:

ngattt wrote:

Vietnamese woman here, but I must work now. I will tell OP something at lunch break 

Hurry up.  And I hope you bring enough ca phe sua da for everyone.

Ca phe da khong duong for me please!

1. OP, here is your problems: " I've told to my girlfriend this summer one of my friend told me some month ago he will come to my marriage in VN and one of my uncle told me probably he will come too"
As Dan said, women never forget what you said.

In Vietnam, we have a proverb: "một lần bất tín, vạn lần bất tin" (Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me). If I were her, I also wonder so much... Athough, in your case, I think you didnt want to fool her, just a unexpected situation, because it's not depend on you.

For Vietnamese women, getting married is very important in her life. Although nowadays, the divorce rate in Vietnam is increasing, but the decision to divorce is extremely difficult for a woman. Therefore, she must think a lot before she gets married, especially married a foreigner. Except, she wants to get married you because of money or other reasons, then she wants to married you as soon as possible. And after that, when she becomes a Canadian citizen, she will do anything she wants...

When she said she needs at least a Canadian to your wedding, but knowing you are not easy to find, that means she needs much time to know about you. To understand a man, its not easy at all. Pls spend much more time for her, make he believe you more.

2. In Vietnam, neighbors impact on others so much. When I wanted to divorce, I think about my family first. I was afraid for my parents... Neighbors are very gossip, someone will talk behind your back, why in an important ceremony, but noone is a relative of the groom? And, if her parents know, they feel hurt. Vietname women are like that, they always think about their parents first.

So, I hope you understand a bit about Vietnamese culture before getting married a Vietnamese woman.

Good luck to you, man!

Good post, Nga.  I think you summarized what this woman might be thinking and I agree with what you said.

EDIT:  What a minute!  Where's my ca phe?

DanFromSF wrote:

Good post, Nga.  I think you summarized what this woman might be thinking and I agree with what you said.

EDIT:  What a minute!  Where's my ca phe?

Come here, Dan, I will invite you some cà phê sữa đá .
And Matt, if you want, I will give you some "cafe nguyên chất" (pure coffee) (its made by my colleague). I'm afraid of coffee in coffeeshop .

Well, after Matt and I have some Bia Sai Gon, we might need some coffee. 

ngattt wrote:

DanFromSF wrote:

Good post, Nga.  I think you summarized what this woman might be thinking and I agree with what you said.

EDIT:  What a minute!  Where's my ca phe?

Come here, Dan, I will invite you some cà phê sữa đá .
And Matt, if you want, I will give you some "cafe nguyên chất" (pure coffee) (its made by my colleague). I'm afraid of coffee in coffeeshop .

Thanks indeed ngattt, and I could actually bring some ca phe for you too because my wifes family are coffee farmers - and it will be pure and straight from our own roaster!