I am starting to wonder why anyone moves to Brazil !!!!

Ok now, just think about all the places you visited in Brazil and think about the people you met there. How were you received by them and how did they treat you? There's where you'll find the answer to your question!!!

In a survey of expats and tourists they were asked what they liked most about Brazil and almost without exception all of them gave the same answer - THE BRAZILIAN PEOPLE. Know what? It's true! Anywhere you go in the huge country you're going to be received with open arms, treated like you've just come home to your own family after a long absence. The Brazilian people are much warmer and friendlier than any I've ever encountered. Sure, you'll find some that are superficial and out to take advantage of you, but they're the exception and not the rule. You'll find people like that in any country.

Does Brazil have problems? Wow, you bet it does! But just look how the Brazilian people deal with them... the problems that are just never going to go away, killer problems that would grind most of us expats down. They somehow find a way to deal with them, skirt around them, ignore them and they COPE. Not only that, but they seem to be truly happy and united despite those problems. For Brazilians, that's just life and life goes on!

When we expats are fortunate enough to understand the Brazilian attitude toward life, then it rubs off on us too, things we would have hated and gone to the wall to fight against back home don't seem to matter so much here. We don't let things bother us so much anymore, just like our Brazilian friends and neighbors have learned to do. We RELAX. That's when we start to really fall in love with Brazil. That's when we start to look beyond all the bad things and that's when we start to see the REAL BRAZIL, that makes us stay.

Plant a bomb under me, put a Glock 9mm to my head, drag me off in chains, but you're not going to get me to leave Brazil... no matter how much I may complain about this country, there's no way you're gonna get me to leave it! Brazilians have learned that same feeling long ago, it just takes a while for US to learn it too. Then we see things like:

Incredible variety of nature - plants, animals and geographical formations
Cultural diversity of the people in every area of this huge country (they're all so different)
Amazing regional cuisine, dishes typical of each area that you won't soon forget
History - over 500 years of history right there in front of you wherever you go
Really low rate of racism and intolerance of any kind when compared to other countries
Over 8000 miles of beaches, some the most beautiful you'll ever want to see
Oh yes, and let's not forget the Brazilian women... among the most beautiful in the world, if not the most!
The list goes on
and on
and on
and on

Do we expats complain about Brazil? Sure we do, but for the most part we wouldn't trade it for anywhere else on earth.

Then why do we complain? Well, didn't we always complain about the things that were wrong "back home"? Of course we did, because we wanted to see it being even better than it was. We complain about the many problems of Brazil mostly out of our own frustration, we see Brazil through the eyes of people from "developed countries". We see that Brazil could be so-o-o-o-o-o much more that in already is. We complain about the things that could launch this country into the developed world like a rocket, where it truly should be already!

I complained about Canada all the time, still do... that doesn't mean I don't love my homeland with all my heart. Even Canada will never be PERFECT.

I complain about Brazil all the time, but I don't forget for one second all the wonderful things that make me love it probably even more than I ever loved Canada. Ask any expat here and I can assure you they've got a list of gripes a mile long, but I bet my bottom dollar they all feel exactly the same. Ask 'em if they'd leave and you'll get a resounding, "Hell no!" right away.

I think expats who complain about whatever country they are living in, and have been for a  long time, are just venting their frustrations and anger at things in general. By doing this it also gives anyone contemplating a move time to take off the rose tinted glasses and think again.

I agree with you.The Brazilian people are the nicest in the world! Even my home town of Austin Texas.Which is my favorite place to live in America.The music capital of the world.It also has bad traffic,hot weather etc... So, no place is perfect.I think this is why I want to live three months in Brazil then 3 months in Texas and back and forth for a while.The hard part will be for my pets. Thanks for your info and help  again!!!!!! 

That's a good question.
I believe majority of foreigners leaving in Brazil are not actually real expats (people on "expat contra" for 2-4 years working for an international company, excellent salary, financial package to pay accomodation, transport, health insurance and children school). If you look at immigration stats, there are not much "work" visa delivred each year.
Foreigners are generally in Brazil because their other half in Brazilian. Sometimes they meet a Brazilian in their native country then after a few years decide to move to Brazil. Other were tourists who meet someone in Brazil and got married. These people (majority of people answering on this forum) had to learn the hard way the howto of living in Brazil. How to deal with bureaucraty. How to find a job. Etc. So they are very critical indeed but they love the Brazilians and Brazil.
So to answer your question, why in Brazil? For me, 50% by love. 50% by thinking that Brazil was booming and that would be very easy to get a job (so actually 50% very naive).

Thanks. I really like Fortaleza area and Cumbuco. It seems like property prices are rising there. I want a beach house in a safe area for me and my dogs. I we be back there soon to look for a place. I just don't want to pay gringo prices. Lol

The better you speak Portuguese, the less likely you're going to get charged "gringo prices" wherever you go. Also you need to learn the fine art (Brazilian tradition) of haggling prices too. They always quote a higer price, you've got to bargain them down as far as you can go. Also if you pay in cash you should always demand at least 10% discount (dez por cento de desconto), that's the MINIMUM you should get when paying for anything in cash.

Brazilians cultivate friendships with vendors of any kind, you should do likewise. If you get a fair price for anything you should always go back and deal with the same shopkeeper, vendor, etc., it shows you appreciated being treated fairly and you build a friendship that will keep things that way.

I can't speak Portuguese for nuts.  But with my (wonderful) Brazilian friends, I got to learn interesting tips on the fine art of haggling.  For example this is the only country I've been to that when you are at a local bar, and you ordered more than 5 bottles of beer, you can ask for one free and they give it to you!!

Now that's what I call service!

Really? Send me this bar's address. Never happen to me.
Is this the kind of trendy bar where you pay R$20 for a small bottle ...so then I could understand why they could give freebies. In my local restaurants (not bar), after dozens of big bottle...we still pay full price.

Now I know why I don't drink!!!  Come to think of it, you know I've never gotten a discount on a pack of smokes either! 

It's down at the end of Copacabana at Arpoador.  Right beside Mercure Arpoador Hotel.

Next to that is TT Burger, which has FANTASTIC burger and unbelievable milkshakes.

I heard that most of the bars have closed on Atlantica ave in Rio .I haven't been to Rio since Jan 2012.Is this true? Te amor Arpoador !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

rc206 wrote:

I heard that most of the bars have closed on Atlantica ave in Rio .I haven't been to Rio since Jan 2012.Is this true? Te amor Arpoador !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A few were closed during the WC, most notable was Balcony Bar due to it being right opposite the Fan Fest (we all know why).

But all have re-opened after WC.

I think that the problem you notice with finding work here in Brazil is more about protectionism and the high unemployment rate among Brazilians than it is about racism. The laws here require that employers must prove that they've been unable to fill any job vacancy with a Brazilian qualified to do the job before they can hire a foreign national to fill it. I see absolutely nothing wrong with that and it's been that way since long before I came here almost 13 years ago. I think it's certainly less drastic a measure than simply slamming the doors shut on immigration as is being proposed in the USA.

As far as racism goes, really here it's more xenophobia than racism; and it's largely directed towards other Latin Americans, strangely enough. The racism that does exist is mostly Brazilians discriminating against other Brazilians. I have lots of African friends and Asians too, they've never felt they were victims of racism here.

All Latin American countries are extremely male dominated, machoism is a real problem. That's a cultural thing that's developed over hundreds of years of history especially here in Brazil. Women from other countries surely find that difficult to adjust to. In the workplace it takes the form of the "glass ceiling", women are paid less than their male counterparts for exactly the same work, they don't have the same salary potential and don't get promoted nearly as often or to higher executive positions.

Again, you can't be comparing Brazil with the USA or Canada that have fair wage laws, equality isn't guaranteed in the workplace here in Brazil like it is there. That said, these are just some of the factors that anyone who takes expatriating seriously should have researched and considered well before coming here. If one doesn't do their homework and comes here with unrealistic expectations they're setting themselves up for disappointment for sure.

Yeah, rc, gringos tend to have too much time on their hands and plenty to gripe about. This is not unique to this fine site. It happens in most "expat" groups (check the ones on Facebook for some really depressing chatter).  I think folks never really get over the whole transition thing -- and those that do stop coming to boards like this to chat with others.

Once folks learn the language and start to integrate they fade out of the self-described "expat" circles.

There is plenty to celebrate here in Brazil and many of us gringos focus on the positive. You have to let the other comments roll off your back.

Good luck.  jim

For whatever it's worth, here is my opinion about Brazil in general and Goiânia, where I live, in particular. I am 82 years old, was born in Brazil, moved to Pennsylvania in 1963, retired in 2002, came to Goiânia where my son lives to enjoy the rest of my life in a nice climate in a country that used to be mine, speaking a language that is still my first one. It took me 12 years to realize it was a mistake, that I was no longer Brazilian, that my way of thinking was no longer Brazilian, and that I do not belong here any more. Let me try to summarize what made me reach this sad conclusion: first of all, most people here don't have the same concept of responsibility as the average American; secondly, truth for most people is something very elastic, obvious lying is discreetly ignored to avoid embarrassment. These characteristics were most evident following my wife's recent surgery and subsequent treatment for infection, which in the States would have been a clear case of malpractice but here, well, who wants to cause constrangimento...Mind you, I am talking about Goiânia. Things may be somewhat different down south, but I am too old to go and find out. I will go back to my second country as soon as I can. By the way, should you perchance decide to come to Goiânia, keep in mind that we will be selling our house soon.

My wife is Brasilian. We've  been married 18 years. Living and working the the USA. During that time my wife became very successful as a manager in a large retail store chain. I already had a very good job. We would vacation in Brasil every year, I took advantage of our trips to learn as much as possible on my own. Last year my wife became alarmed about her fathers failing health and we retired to Brasil. We have savings and a pension. We live in a suburb of Goiania and we used earnings from our fatter years to "feather our nest."

i had realized years ago that a comfortable retirement in the USA might not be possible for me and I was already looking at my options outside my country.

If I have any complaints, It's the difficulty I've experienced in establishing friendships with other expats. It's not me, I reach out-It seems long term exposure to Brasilian way of life leads to a "distrust" reflex. I even joined a popular expat group, Only to find out that they discourage getting together except in public places. I'm not bitching, these are facts.

My advice is always the same: Visit Brasil. Research online, Have a source of independent income, Have very low expectations. It is difficult for the average Brasilian to make it here. There will be zero sympathy for "rich arrogant gringo's"(BTW I actively oppose this term).

I find that having an independent income allows me to put up with the BS that is euphemistically called Jetinhio Brasilero. This is a "lipstick on a pig" term that encompasses a lot of bad, annoying behavior.

That said, my personal move here has been quite successful. Remember:

NO ONE PLANS TO FAIL-THEY JUST FAIL TO PLAN

I think that Allentonian and exnyer, probably more than many of us, are in a much better position to accurately depict the situation in Brazil since they've seen both sides of the coin for many years. I'm also a "lifer" here in Brazil, having now been here for nearly 13 years and have a Brazilian wife and son.

I was born and raised in Canada and when I first arrived in Brazil viewed everything from my rather pampered North American existance, from my Canadian perspective of life even though I had really done my research the adaptation was a daunting task.

I think far too many of us expats come to Brazil with extremely unrealistic and rather selfish expectations. Many are unable or unwilling to except the reality that Brazil is not the USA or Canada, or the UK or EU........... it is BRAZIL. They expect that they're going to be able to avail themselves of all the same luxuries, amenities, services and infrastructure that exist in their homelands. That's pure crap, it's never going to happen in Brazil. The moment that we stop EXPECTING Brazil and Brazilians to change to suit us and realize that the only thing that we can change is ourselves, the way we interact with our surroundings and those around us really is a great turning point in our relocation process, it's really a liberation of sorts. I often wonder about the selfishness and arrogance of anyone who comes here and essentially says, "this place is screwed, it has to change! Back home we had this, or that... back home things worked this way or that way, and damn it that's the way it should work here too." Sorry guys but if that's the attitude you have Brazil is simply not a fit for you.

Allentonian and exnyer clearly understood that when they came here, they also did their homework before coming here, as did I. They didn't come here with false or unrealistic expectations and didn't arrive here as square pegs in a round hole. I love exnyer's quote, "Nobody plans to fail - they just fail to plan." It's so true, and it's such a basic concept that I can't for the life of me understand why more expats (all over the world) simply don't get it long before they expatriate - it's essential.

I think back to my British grandfather and remember as I was growing up always hearing the "well back home it was like this, blah, blah, blah" or "back home we had this, blah, blah, blah" to the point it made me sick. He just couldn't wrap his head around the fact that he wasn't back home. I guess that's one of the things that helped me so much in my transition, that understanding I had gained by listening to all his whining that when I came here I was no longer back home and never would be again; the knowledge that nothing would be the same and quite likely I wouldn't have any ability to change it. I had gained that priceless knowledge that if I wanted everything to be exactly the same as it was at home then I should just stay home, so I came here with a clean slate and an open mind knowing that I would have to accept everything exactly the way it was.

Do I complain about Brazil.... Hell yes, but not for that reason. I complain about Brazil because I want it to become a better place for my Brazilian son to grow up in. I don't complain about Brazil because I'm unhappy with it. I think that is quite an important distinction to make.

Thankyou Allentonian and exyner for your very valuable insights, I'm sure that you've both contributed much more here with your comments than you'll probably realize.

Thanks Lanne.

I've been around the world so much that these days when people ask "Where do you stay?", I have to honestly say where ever I am at currently.

But I believe a lot of quips that people have (not just in Brazil), it's more a form of venting and stress relief.  I too had some initial problems when I first arrived in Rio.  But maybe cause of my living-out-of-a-suit-case lifestyle, I adapt better to changes.

I go into a bar and start chatting with anyone that I think may know some english.  It don't matter much if it's guys, girls or everything in-between.  After a month of doing that, I got to know many good local friends as well.

Of course the fact that Brazil is extremely bureaucratic, can be annoying at times.  But hey!  We take the good with the bad.

Brazil is still a wonderfull place, and it's getting better all the time.

I've lived in Brasil now for just over a year.

The problem with all the reports is that the happy people are to busy to write bloggs etc. It's only the small minority that have nothing better to do than mone and grone.

The weather is fantastic, the food second to none, the people always have a smile on their face and you never drink or eat alone.

Yes there are problems like anywhere. In the UK people moned about the weather, the price of food, how dangeraous the streets are,the public health service ETC ETC ETC. Sounds the same ha.

Brasil is a land where anybody can live life. Yes you need to speak some portuges, but they all love a gringo. Life is to short to always be wondering " what if?"

As you say find a good location and you'll never look back.

Good Luck from very happy Redpanther

If you are naturally laid back and got enough revenue to live in a nice environment, it makes easier to see everything positively. All day to day issues are just funny adventure and opportunity to meet people. Great fun overall!  It was my case too.
However it is getting much more difficult to stay laid back when you start to feel pressure from your professional life (especially when creating your business). Then, losing half a day to bring your child to a medical clinic because the doctor is late (even in private clinic) is exhausting. Losing days in escritorios and trying understand incongruous administration rules is not fun anymore (and I have got 3 children). Being very cautious about your personal/familly security, etc... All that starts to change your point of view and this is for real reasons; it is not a "feeling". 
I was well prepared:speaking portuguese, culturally interested by Brazil, leaving with my Brazilian wife for 10 years before moving to Brazil and traveling to Brazil 2-3 time a year. But nothing prepare to a real move.
However I am critic about current situation in Brazil but quite optimistic about the future of Brazil. My point of view is actually much more balanced that all Brazilians I know (and my wife firstly) who just think that Brazil is doomed. How many Brazilians just hope that their children with move for a better life abroad! I believe that the worst critic you can make about your own country.

Lanne wrote:

@wjwoodward
>In the workplace it takes the form of the "glass ceiling", women are paid less than their male counterparts for exactly the >same work, they don't have the same salary potential and don't get promoted nearly as often or to higher executive >positions.

I surmise that you may be overestimating the "equality" of the Canadian and American systems.

I'm hardly overestimating anything. In fact I was heavily involved in the Trade Union movement when I lived in Canada. Any employer who tries to pay a female employee less than a male employee doing the same job would find himself/herself in front of a Labor Relations Board tribunal so fast his/her hair would curl; I've seen it happen, trust me.

Another problem with Brazil in terms of employment is that there are no firm rules or laws governing the type of questions that can be asked (and for the most part REQUIRE answering) in pre-employment interviews. Questions that would land an employer in front of the Human Rights Board in any Canadian province are commonplace here in Brazil, and if you don't reply you can kiss the job goodbye. Women are routinely asked about their marital status, if they have children, if not do they plan on having them. Any such questions that could result in discrimination against the interviewee are strictly against the law anywhere in Canada and the USA. Here in Brazil they aren't and this is part of the "glass ceiling" and other discriminatory practices against women in the Brazilian workplace.

As far as wage parity goes, even by the Brazilian government's own figures women are paid, on average, ONE THIRD less than their male counterparts doing exactly the same job. That is against the labor laws everywhere in Canada and the USA too!!!

Good question.
This depends entirely on your motivation. The climate, investments, .......whatever!
First of all, you would need to have a grip on the lingo, do you?
If not, you would put yourself into a difficult situation if your intent is to move here or purchase rentall property.

If the photo is of you having a drink with a tavern background, it may be you enjoy a party, OK, it all depends on where the party is happening. Like any country there are safe playgrounds and there are areas not quite so pleasant, especially so for a non speaking (Portugues) tourist status.

To end this rant, what are you looking for, if you purchase rentall property, all well and good. You can spend vacations, it will pay for itself and you can spend time acclimating to the culture. You would require a reputable real estate agent  (imobilaria) contracted to cover you property, rentall income and maintenance, security to include who rent is under the conditions of leaving the property in the same condition.
My advise, don't just show up here in the beleif you can simply go ahead and buy a home and settle in comftorably,problem free. You need time, to investigate areas, price factors, etc. This is a huge country, sea front, mountains, on up to Amazon territory.
Dip your toes in the water before you go for a swim.
There have been very informative posts, the remainder of the equation is what you is motive, if you could be more specific in your reasoning I'll bet you will receive more precise feedback.
I have lived here over 20 years, I won't be returning to the States, I'm at home here.
Good luck.

Christopher Jones wrote:

My advise, don't just show up here in the belief you can simply go ahead and buy a home and settle in comfortably,problem free. You need time, to investigate areas, price factors, etc.

Wow, you have no idea how true this is. If anyone that's been through the permanency process thinks that it's fraught with insane bureaucracy, try purchasing a home or property in Brazil. Not only is it complex, but there are numerous taxes, income tax implications and a plethora of serious risks of losing your investment completely, or purchasing real estate that you can't even occupy.

Buying property in Brazil

WJ..
Amen, it is vital this guy has a handle on the legal in's and out's.
Buying-yes *a very convoluted area. Leasing and sub-leasing, complicated as well.
If this gent is serious I would recomend he spend 6 months (tourist status) and does his homework.
He can , as you are aware, make a decent life here.. If he seeks having a good time, partying, etc and decides to hang around renting, he can head off to Paraguay and renew his tourist visa.( If this process is still in effect)
In any event he needs to do the math and will most certainly need contacts.
I'm not a social animal, I sought a quiet existance and have it. Though there are many an ex pats who have the deal down pat as to getting acclimated to a hearty nightlife safely..
In order to be specific in assisting this man it would be important to understand his intent. Retriement, work, play, whatever..
    CJ

Every new situation gives us the opportunity to change our old ways or just repeating ourselves constantly.
The problem it's not the county you reside or whatever.
Brazil has a lot of problems and of course they are very easy to pinpoint.
Assuming you understand that a big city such as Rio and São Paulo would have economical disparities and that your living on a sub equatorial, Capricorn tropic country, there's really no need to complain.
Don't create false myths about where you go.
Try to see whats good. What this new environment has to offer.
At the end of the day, is up to you to have a good time or don't.

rc

Hey, I lived in Brasil for 4 years before I bought my first apartment. It wasn't in the place where I originally landed but 5,000km away.
I'd use the same rule as I would in the US, don't buy anything till you've lived there (rented) for a year.
You may think you know some place in a week but it's impossible.

I returned last year after being gone for 5 years and Brasil has changed a lot. Lot less crime in the north but I hear there is more in the south due to drug traffic.

Recife is much safer now and cleaner too.
Have not ventured to the south since 2006 so I really don't know how it is there.

If you want to buy real estate (condo or house) I'd buy where things are still reasonable. STAY OUT of places like RIO or Recife cuz you're going to buy 'at the top'. 
There are many locations outside the big cities where real estate prices have not risen since I left in 2008. Key is to stay away from the big cities. I'd say 30 minutes outside of big cities you will find some really good deals.

Having said that, I think you're NUTS to buy something here to rent out for profit,  NUTS.
The real estate in the states is still on the bottom in most places while real estate prices in Brasil have never been higher. No smart investor buys at peak market, you buy where things are CHEAP NOW.

Even tho I am living in Brasil now, I am thinking to buy a couple small condos in the Tampa Bay area, where I am from. Can find nice condos on Craigslist from $21,000 to $30,000.  Rent for something like $650 a month, condo fee $250. That's $400 profit if nothing goes wrong. A whole lot less invested and mostly NO risk with the Brasilian financial or personal systems. It's a no brainer.
YOU CAN'T DO THAT IN BRASIL !  And at least you can deal with title companies and banks you can trust to do the right thing !

GUY

FloridaGuyinBR wrote:

rc

Hey, I lived in Brasil for 4 years before I bought my first apartment. It wasn't in the place where I originally landed but 5,000km away.
I'd use the same rule as I would in the US, don't buy anything till you've lived there (rented) for a year.
You may think you know some place in a week but it's impossible.

I returned last year after being gone for 5 years and Brasil has changed a lot. Lot less crime in the north but I hear there is more in the south due to drug traffic.

Recife is much safer now and cleaner too.
Have not ventured to the south since 2006 so I really don't know how it is there.

If you want to buy real estate (condo or house) I'd buy where things are still reasonable. STAY OUT of places like RIO or Recife cuz you're going to buy 'at the top'. 
There are many locations outside the big cities where real estate prices have not risen since I left in 2008. Key is to stay away from the big cities. I'd say 30 minutes outside of big cities you will find some really good deals.

Having said that, I think you're NUTS to buy something here to rent out for profit,  NUTS.
The real estate in the states is still on the bottom in most places while real estate prices in Brasil have never been higher. No smart investor buys at peak market, you buy where things are CHEAP NOW.

Even tho I am living in Brasil now, I am thinking to buy a couple small condos in the Tampa Bay area, where I am from. Can find nice condos on Craigslist from $21,000 to $30,000.  Rent for something like $650 a month, condo fee $250. That's $400 profit if nothing goes wrong. A whole lot less invested and mostly NO risk with the Brasilian financial or personal systems. It's a no brainer.
YOU CAN'T DO THAT IN BRASIL !  And at least you can deal with title companies and banks you can trust to do the right thing !

GUY

Hi FloridaGuyinBR!  What do you think about buying an apartment in Campinas? We are one hour away from SP, and prices here are still very high even though things are beginning to slow down/stabilize. In your opinion, should we wait to see if prices fall? We can afford to wait maybe a year or two...but do you think things will be any different in a year or two?

Also, we are looking to buy in Cambui which is an expensive part of town - I don't know if this makes a difference because even if real estate prices do eventually fall, maybe Cambui won't be as affected? My husband has lived here for quite a few years and we'd both prefer to stay in this neighborhood. We'll probably borrow a little from the bank (20 - 25%) and pay the rest in cash.

Thanks,
Victoria

Victoria

Sorry but I can't comment on real estate in SP. Supply and demand there would seem to be stable I would think. No such thing as 'a little outside of town' there. I like Sao Paulo a lot.

I am guessing here but I would think land and real estate in the interior hasn't gone crazy like on the coast. I see big pieces of land here in PE in the interior so cheap I want to go check it out. I'm talking about something like 20 hectares !  If I wasn't such a beach guy I would.
Bought a couple cars in the interior of SP back in 2003 - Itapetininga and Bauru and was really impressed with these interior towns. Seemed very clean and a great place for families. People were super friendly.
Having a small farm out there can't be so bad.

I think in general real estate will drop in value over the next 2-5 years.
Petrobras is laying off up here. A lot of oil and gas rigs are being shut down in the US because of natural gas and cheap oil. Growth is slowing down a lot here.

What I see in coastal areas is high prices IN the cities but 30 minutes outside things are 50% less.
One example here in Recife, try to find any condo for R$250,000 of any age. Go half an hour north to Pau Amarelo or Janga just north of Olinda and you can buy a NEW condo for R103,000 and walk to the beach !  Land in this area is pretty cheap too. Why not build something ?

I'm sure this is true of places like Maceio, Fortaleza, Florianopolis, Porto Alegre.
Speaking of Florianopolis, the island has some of the cheapest new aptos in Brasil and I can't figure out why ? Maybe cuz it's a vacation town, beach town, with few jobs except for the universities, I don't know. It's high on MY list of nice places to buy something a live the beach life.

Get out and explore places in Brasil you haven't had the time to.
There's a lot to see.
Guy

There was an enthusiastic austrian writer named Stefan Zweig that got  mind blown by Brazil lack of war tendency  on his trip to Argentina back in the 40`s .
After that wrote a book named  "Brazil , Land of the Future"  ,some say it must be " Brazil , a Land of the Future " a translation error maybe , that should make a big difference in the meaning .

He loved this country so much that after finishing the book moved down here from USA . Then he killed himself  drinking venom right in his Utopian Paradise .
I believe he understood that he really didn`t found the " paradise " and the depression got a hold of him .

After this great description of Brazil , people here started to think of this land as the country of the future and this optimistic way of seeing the future must be the principal reason for the attraction that most foreigners feel for Brazil .

After this comes the beautiful brazilian women . So much beauty that many don`t even give a thought of the violence and every other bad aspects .

As people use to say here " Who drinks the water from Brazil , always comes back for more ."

Brasil sure doesn't want war with anyone nor does anyone want war with Brasil.
Brasilians are too laid back to worry about fighting someone else over petty differences.
That attitude reflects itself in how the mix of Brasilians get along with eachother too; blacks with brown eyes to whites with green eyes. The world could learn a lot by studying Brasil.

The women in Brasil dazzle everybody. How could one go back to their country after experiencing this ?

I think Brasil has a great future but it has a lot of problems it has to fix first ; crazy high taxes on imports, healthcare and education. Sounds like the same problems us foreigners have at home too !

FloridaGuyinBR wrote:

Brasil sure doesn't want war with anyone nor does anyone want war with Brasil.
Brasilians are too laid back to worry about fighting someone else over petty differences.
That attitude reflects itself in how the mix of Brasilians get along with eachother too; blacks with brown eyes to whites with green eyes. The world could learn a lot by studying Brasil.

The women in Brasil dazzle everybody. How could one go back to their country after experiencing this ?

I think Brasil has a great future but it has a lot of problems it has to fix first ; crazy high taxes on imports, healthcare and education. Sounds like the same problems us foreigners have at home too !

FloridaGuyinBR wrote:

Brasil sure doesn't want war with anyone nor does anyone want war with Brasil.
Brasilians are too laid back to worry about fighting someone else over petty differences.
That attitude reflects itself in how the mix of Brasilians get along with eachother too; blacks with brown eyes to whites with green eyes. The world could learn a lot by studying Brasil.

The women in Brasil dazzle everybody. How could one go back to their country after experiencing this ?

I think Brasil has a great future but it has a lot of problems it has to fix first ; crazy high taxes on imports, healthcare and education. Sounds like the same problems us foreigners have at home too !

I might regret opening this can of worms...but here I go. Brazilians are some of the warmest and friendliest people that I have ever met. And they DO get along with each other...or so it would seem compared to other countries like the United States, where race relations can be quite volatile. However, that said, I would much rather be a black person living in the United States (where 14% of the population is black) than a black person living in Brazil (where over 50% of the population is black).  At least, in the U.S., there isn't a ceiling looming over my head that puts me in my place....way at the bottom of the heap.

http://www.economist.com/node/21543494

"The hardest task is to change attitudes. Many Brazilians simply assume blacks belong at the bottom of the pile."

"For example, more than half the people in Rio de Janeiro's favelas (slums) are black. The comparable figure in the city's richer districts is just 7%."

http://newsone.com/3025677/afro-brazilian-racism/

"Despite Brazil's reputation as a melting pot of cultures, de facto racial stratification still largely exists. Many people outside the country see the racially mixed population and assume that no racial barriers exist, but if you ask the country's Black residents that's understood not to be the case."

“Racism in Brazil is very disguised,” says Danielle Fernandes, a Black Brazilian from Sao Goncalo. “I do not feel the racism is on account of color but social condition. For me, everything comes down to whether [a person has] money or not.”

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre … -world-cup

"The government hoped to use the World Cup to showcase the country's cultural diversity and thriving democracy in all its splendour, but all it did was to highlight the deep-rooted prejudices and inequalities in this nation of 200 million."

"The answer is as obvious as it is tragic. Most black people in Brazil are poor. Unlike in South Africa or the United States, there's no black middle class, and perhaps most importantly there isn't a black political class."

I haven't been in Brazil that long, but I've been here long enough to realize that not only does racism exist in Brazil...racism is practically institutionalized in this country.  I've noticed that the majority of people doing the menial jobs in this country are black and darker-skinned Brazilians...from the security guards of my apartment building to my cleaning lady to the waiters and waitresses at the various restaurants I frequent. The reason there isn't rioting and violent race wars in Brazil is because racism here is more disguised. One could argue that it has nothing to do with race...and everything to do with class. Fine. But which race makes up the lower classes? It's mostly blacks and darker-skinned Brazilians. So as far as I'm concerned, race almost equates to class in Brazil. If I had a dollar for every Brazilian I've encountered who complained that their tax dollars are going to support the "poor" or "lazy" people in the north (i.e. Bahia where the predominant race is black)...

As for the problems with taxation, healthcare, and education, I wholly agree with you. The taxation here is simply ridiculous. Also, government corruption, in general. Every single Brazilian I've met complains about their government - it seems that there is rampant corruption at every level of government, and while Brazilians know about it, many of them feel powerless do anything about it.

Well, I have to agree and disagree.
There are major differences in Brasil and the US.

Racism is the way of life in the US, whereas in Brasil (I agree with you) it IS class.
I don't believe most Brasilians have a deep seated HATRED of blacks,  they just think they are in a different class. In the US there is a REAL DEEP SEATED HATRED for all blacks (by ignorant uneducated rednecks).  Of course there are exceptions to everything.

How can a lower class person be putting such a strain on the economy when they can hardly afford to live here ? It's not like they are getting R$2000 a month !

Comments to the contrary are just from a SELFISH attitude that nobody deserves to have anything more than they do.
The US has plenty of SELFISH Republicans who don't even want to be taxed at all but wait till their house gets blown away by a tornado, they'll be the first ones inline for a government handout.
HYPOCRATES all of them.

I think your right Victoria , everything you wrote it's true ,but Brazil is like this and I think it want change in the near future .

It`s like a vicious cycle , poverty here almost always creates more poverty .  If one has an important last name , can have almost everything in life .

Color does matter yes in this society just look at the tv channels how many black people do you see . If a person here has dark skin and comes from a modest family then he has to suffer much more to make his way up .
And here I want to give the example of the ex-president of supreme court Joaquim Barbosa , everyone should read his story to understand more about how Brazil works .

Here a lawyer is called "doctor" ,a policeman to, and the medical doctors almost kings in the private hospitals .
A great place for the proliferation of garage Churches of every kind .

But as I was saying , Brazil is like this and has its own rhythm.
Someday it may change but maybe then even the good parts will vanish , like it happened in the highly developed countries .

claudiu_claudiu wrote:

I think your right Victoria , everything you wrote it's true ,but Brazil is like this and I think it want change in the near future .

It`s like a vicious cycle , poverty here almost always creates more poverty .  If one has an important last name , can have almost everything in life .

Color does matter yes in this society just look at the tv channels how many black people do you see . If a person here has dark skin and comes from a modest family then he has to suffer much more to make his way up .
And here I want to give the example of the ex-president of supreme court Joaquim Barbosa , everyone should read his story to understand more about how Brazil works .

Here a lawyer is called "doctor" ,a policeman to, and the medical doctors almost kings in the private hospitals .
A great place for the proliferation of garage Churches of every kind .

But as I was saying , Brazil is like this and has its own rhythm.
Someday it may change but maybe then even the good parts will vanish , like it happened in the highly developed countries .

I totally agree. Yes, color matters a great deal here in Brazil, and yes, the racism/classism here is a vicious cycle. The prejudices here are deep-rooted. The more I look around and the more I "listen," the more evident it is. Again, in my opinion, the reason Brazil doesn't have open racial conflict is because there is no black middle class here (in the United States, there is a strong black middle class which often finds itself in contention with poorer blacks as well as whites) and because blacks here have no political power, they are at the will of dirt-bag politicians who will gerrymander and use them for their votes and then toss them aside afterwards to pursue their own selfish interests.

It's rare to find blacks in middle class or upper class professions...my husband works for a big multinational company and out of 300 or so "mostly Brazilian" employees, only one Brazilian is black (or at least noticeably black...though I'm sure there are plenty of others who have some black blood in them). Are black people in Brazil more stupid? No. Are black people in Brazil more lazy? No. Do black people in Brazil have less opportunities? Definitely. Do black people in Brazil have a place in Brazilian society and are expected to remain there? Definitely. I don't know about you, but this is basically institutionalized or structural racism. I may not call you a racial slur to your face, but then again, I don't need to expend the energy...because society and  the politicians and everything and everyone at large...is making sure that you stay in your place and that you damn well know where your place is.

FloridaGuyinBR wrote:

Well, I have to agree and disagree.
There are major differences in Brasil and the US.

Racism is the way of life in the US, whereas in Brasil (I agree with you) it IS class.
I don't believe most Brasilians have a deep seated HATRED of blacks,  they just think they are in a different class. In the US there is a REAL DEEP SEATED HATRED for all blacks (by ignorant uneducated rednecks).  Of course there are exceptions to everything.

How can a lower class person be putting such a strain on the economy when they can hardly afford to live here ? It's not like they are getting R$2000 a month !

Comments to the contrary are just from a SELFISH attitude that nobody deserves to have anything more than they do.
The US has plenty of SELFISH Republicans who don't even want to be taxed at all but wait till their house gets blown away by a tornado, they'll be the first ones inline for a government handout.
HYPOCRATES all of them.

You said it yourself:  it IS about class. But in Brazil, a country where class is practically synonymous with race...either way you call it, "tomayto or tomahto" or "potayto or potahto," it's the same thing.

In the U.S., there is more hatred and violence and racial slurs being thrown around, because blacks and whites (and Latinos, Asians, Jews, Arabs, etc.)  often find themselves at odds with each other. Blacks in America have a voice. They are represented, even if they're totally underrepresented, not just in sports and entertainment, but at all levels of society. This gives them the right and more importantly, the will to fight back against social injustices...unlike blacks in Brazil, who just seem to accept their place in society because they have no true voice here. Who's going to feel threatened by a group of people that can't fight back??? Also, in the U.S., we have far more poor whites than poor blacks...numbers wise, that is, there are more whites living in poverty than blacks...and I don't know about you, but no one likes "white trash rednecks" or "ghetto blacks" in the U.S...which means, it's definitely more about classism than racism in America. But in Brazil...with a few exceptions, if you're black, you're poor. End of story.

OH, I think you're right about white trash being class but I think ALL blacks are lumped into one category (black) and RACIALLY discriminated against.
So many people are brainwashed by their parents (fathers mostly) and aren't smart enough to know better. It's no different than what we used to say about the Russians when we were kids - 'The Russians are brainwashing their citizens.'  Can apply to N Korea today too, in this case it's true.
Way too much FOX NEWS.

I see it like this ; most blacks are no lazier or dumber than other people, in fact I've worked with a lot of them who have a lot of class, more than many whites. The blacks who have a tight family or religious unit are these kinds of people. I might even say they look down on other blacks too.

So what the US has, and maybe Brasil too ;
The upper class calls blacks useless stupid lazy, but what have the upper classes done to create this situation ?
They cut school food programs, cut medical care for newborns, they could not care if blacks eat on a regular basis. That creates the kind of children who CAN'T learn because they are undernourished, they can't do well in school or get ahead. They call them lazy but don't offer them a decent job or wage.

Then the upper class who controls things blames these people for being stupid and lazy when it was them who created the problem in the first place.
IF the country's culture did that to me, I'd be burning down Washington DC and raising more hell than you could imagine. I'd be pissed off.
So it's no surprise that's how blacks feel.

Now the US has all these what I'd call black murders by the police. What is going on there ?
It seems like the police think they ARE the military (too many ex-military joining the force) and thinking like it's me against them. Obama was exactly right when he said the militarization of our police has to stop.
We are starting to see some cops being charged with murder now and that's a good first step.
What is WRONG with the US ?  This is unacceptable.
Never been this worse in all of my 62 years.
Something has to explode one day.

Like I tell people, 'I'll be sitting on my beach chair by the ocean in Brasil when I notice a big red ball in the sky to the north. That will be the end !

Great comment. I haven't been here too long but I have seen similar things, regarding security workers, maids, servants usually being darker skinned.  I have also heard the same complaints from people in the South paying heavy taxes because of the "lazy" people in the North (referring to Bahia.)
I have yet to visit Rio or Sao Paolo, so I am not sure if the colour divide gets better once you hit the bigger cities.

A friend of mine who has lived in Brazil for four years now quipped how the big uproar in the US over the Mike Brown case or the Trayvon Martin case had little effect on her. She noted that in Rio, police kill thousands of black brazilian young people every year, significantly more than the US does

This article (theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/29/ferguson-missouri-michael-brown-brazil-rio-black-teenager-lucas-lima) is a good read if you have the time.