Life Changing - Opportunity

Hi Caue Palacio,

Welcome to Expat.com and thank you for this nice introduction.

If you have some questions to ask, please feel free to ask them on the forum, it may help you to receive more specific information.

Congratulations and enjoy your Honeymoon in Athens 

Priscilla

Welcome on board to this site and congrats for your upcoming wedding.

If you have plans to stay longer then the honeymoon I advise you to gather as much as you can information about housing, jobs, social life, culture, history. law, how to learn the language, bureaucracy, visa of other kind of legally staying, translated important documents. Anything what is important for you to make the final decision.

Have a nice honeymoon and happy searching!

i propose thessaloniki the best place to live in greece.
(Moderated)

Paulo,

You have not said, so I presume you cannot speak greek! Aside of this rather important obstacle, Greece has not recovered yet from its financial crisis. Both of you will find that getting a job here is next to impossible... that is to say unless you are well enough connected. If you are not, I would seriously consider a plan B. Plan A requires being hugely aggressive to find work. Perhaps begin with local Brazilian or Portuguese companies and if you can contact them before leaving you might get a sense of what u could expect. Give yourself a time limit based perhaps on what you can afford to do without income and if you succeed great! If not, at least you will have something to fall back on. Be warned, this is a small and now poor country with limited resources. Many multinationals have left and still are! Never the less, Its a great place to live.... if you don't have to work! For those that have not fallen too hard, life here is great; for the others, not so much! Good luck!

Hi and congratulations for your wedding and your decision to change your lives! everything that was said above is true but many people are saying that the worst of the crisis is over and unemployment is starting very slowly to get better. This is true, but finding work is still very hard. You seem to be well-qualified thought...
Apart from that the hardest parts will be the language and the visa/stay permit. You will need a lawyer- paperwork is very difficult even for locals!
I think the best you can do is get as much information as you can about jobs and visas on the web before you arrive. The rest will come after, on the ground.
Good luck!

Thessaloniki is the best place to live. Not crowded like Athens and much more relaxed, and not as dirty or crime-y. Yet, it still has big city feel because it's Greece's 2nd largest city, with over a million inhabitants. The city is also young and very politically active with a massive student population. Thess is also home to Greece's largest university (and largest in the Balkan area) - Aristotle University. Finally -- and not that Athens has many violent demonstrations -- but Thess does not have violent demonstrations that require tear gas and mounted police. And, being the young city that it is, isn't as stuffy as Athens; instead, it is far more progressive. In general, Thessaloniki residents do not tolerate Neo Nazi groups (Golden Dawn, etc.), which can unfortunately be found to be active and open in Athens.

Going to Rome for a holiday is literally 20 euros via Ryan Air to the west, and Istanbul an overnight train ride of 9-10 hours to the east. Athens is a 40 minute flight away, or a scenic 5-hour train ride (if you look closely, you'll find pill boxes from WWII along the route!). Thessaloniki also has pretty decent public transportation, but, like the rest of the country, you have to watch out for municipal strikes.

Best of all, Halkidiki, boasting some of Greece's finest beaches, is only 1.5 hours away, or as close to an hour away, depending where you live in the city. If you move to Thess, I strongly advise you to live in the center, where all the action, restaurants, bars, cafes, etc. are. The further away you go, you will encounter nicer, richer neighborhoods, but they are rather dead (not lively) and it takes 20 minutes or so to get into the city. Parking is also difficult. If you live in the city, much of what you want to see/do is within walking distance. It's a great, lively city, just the right size, not too big, not too small, and there is always some sort of festival going on, something interesting to see!

The cons are that Thessaloniki for some reason does not know what international food is. The few restaurants they have are atrocious; they only seem to do Greek food well. Everything else you must cook at home, if you can find authentic enough ingredients in grocery stores. It's a challenge sometimes.

There is a great organic farmer's market past Kefisia which is worth checking out every Wednesday. They sell everything from fresh local honey to eggs, cheese, olives, and produce. Everything is wonderful, tasty, in season, locally grown, and the people are friendly.

A last word. Greece has one extremely dirty habit -- everyone, and I do mean 99.9% of the population - chain smokes. They don't smoke just one or two cigarettes a day. They smoke from morning until night, seemingly non-stop. 80% of hospital admittances in Greece is smoking-related, and most people die of cancer in Greece, which isn't surprising. If you aren't used to this, you better get used to it. In the first couple of months, I got very sick from the cloud of smoke emanating from the population. They simply don't know what life is without cigarettes; it's a part of the culture as much as fish and olives are. Telling Greeks to give up smoking is practically heretical and they will just laugh at you like you're a moron. And, despite the law, they all smoke indoors, and even are rude enough to smoke on closed-window trains. It's really very disgusting and truth be told, quite ignorant. I don't know if they think they look cool or something, but they don't. The irony is that they swear up and down that Italy is worse. I've lived in both countries. Italy is definitely not worse. Italians know moderation.

Congrats and hope you find your adventure in Greece!!

- Leena

In reaction to some posts on this thread and others with a common theme, I would like to say that this is not a place to advertise your own town and castigate others, but to assist someone seeking information in this case on where to best find work. Salonica might be great for its residents but that does not mean it provides the best chances for a foreigner to be successful. What is worse is to make ignorant comments based on anecdotal information. I have yet to see horse mounted police or violent demonstrations in the time I have lived in downtown Athens which is since Dec 2012. Neither is it true that Neo-nazis roam the streets as if they are tolerated as stated. it really does not do much good to sling mud at other places to project your pride for your own. From what I can gather from those conversations however is that Salonica seems to be several decades behind Athens in two ways: There are plenty of international food restaurants.....and smoking has decidedly lessened here from what it used to be and this is not anecdotal but actual personal experience of these two issues.

I've lived in Greece, so I'm not slinging mud, it's my other home, and I love it very much. I'm sorry you misinterpreted my zeal for my city (Thess) as something other than love. Greeks do smoke constantly and that's a fact that they themselves acknowledge. Golden Dawn has a seat in parliament, having gotten 7% (SEVEN PERCENT!!!!!) of a major vote. I never said that they are out partying in the streets, but they are active and they are proud and open.

As for Athens and demonstrations, there have been quite a few. I was there on fellowship and lived near the parliament building. Most days it was fine and peaceful, but there were days where people casually walked through tear gas to cross the street, and we coughed and laughed next to one another.

The smoking statistics I gave are true, they are from governmental records. How do I know this? Because my fellow scholar with me was studying health records of Greeks from the cities compared to outlying cities, villages and islands.

So, as much as you'd like to think this is purely anecdotal, it's also empirical. I'm sorry you don't like the facts, but not everything about Greece is as golden as you'd like to think. Like other countries, it has its share of problems.

Leena

Dear Leana,
I did not mean this as a personal attack. You and at least one other person from Salonika are all over the place with how great it is there and how bad Athens is. You may have spent some time here and you might have some numbers in your head to support your comments but that does not interpret into reality. I am not disparaging your city, but I think to say what you said about life in Athens is not true and you should stick to actual observations rather than slinging numbers my way. Seven percent might be a shocking number but that means that 93% are NOT GD. Its not great but that does not make them respectable or give them the right to march around the city as you mentioned, nor is that number for Athens only but for the country as a whole, right? In Athens at least, they are not "proud and open"! That may your experience in Salonika but I cannot speak to that! Demonstrations here at least, there have been a few, but you called them violent and that is what I reacted to. Those bad ones are long gone so forget about the past. I have SEEN them and they mess the traffic up for a couple of hours and then its over!
These people who seek to immigrate need to hear about current conditions, not history. Being here on a fellowship does not confer you with resident experience it seems and yet you make certain comments as if they are reality. I am OBSERVING life here day to day and decided to respond to comments I see as disparaging and recurring on this blog. You might not like to accept it, but that's how what you wrote comes across. By the way, your 'other" home? How many do you have and how are you an expat?

Nixterman,hi,you do sound rather rude when you reply to someone sometimes. and you get on your high horse,Ichitnis is after-all entitled to her opinion and its no good dissecting everything someone says..Athens has its problems like any major city,where there are humans there will be trouble,it all depends how the local government deal with those troubles,local government in Athens often fail miserably,it can be a dirty dangerous place,and the drug addict problem is not being addressed, merely shoved under the carpet by rounding them up illegally and dumping them miles away in no-mans land,which is inhuman.Monasteraki square has been allowed to get totally run-down despite the fact that it was redesigned with tax payers money in 2008.Im sure that Thessalonika must have its fair share of problems like anywhere else.I personally wouldnt want to live in the center of Athens or any other city,firstly for my health,the northern suburbs of Athens has too many cancers compared to  to other suburbs because the prevailing winds take the killer pollution there.The Greek government must address social welfare problems in Athens and inject financial resources.Greeks are massive smokers but thats up to them,however smoking in restaurants and cafes is against the law and the ....I dont give a damn about you attitude.....is so typical of Greek people.They dont give a damn about their children who are not strapped into a seat,in fact babies are sitting loose on someones lap in the front.Telling the truth as it is about anywhere or anything is being honest,because our life is great in a city doesnt mean the city is great or the management of the city is great.And how many homes Ichitnis has is her business,you were rather rude.

Very funny Concertina! I could not tell if you are serious or joking at first! But if I sound rude it must be because you choose to interpret what you read in that fashion. Did it occur to you that it might be ruder of you to enter into a conversation I am having with someone else, to tell me I am rude? Do you think she cannot write her own defense?

As for Athens, I did not say it was the best city in the world! I told her she was painting a grim picture while pumping up her own place, but thank you for all your useful information, especially as you say, you don't live in Athens or even want to live here, to provide any authority to your opinions. Like any city she has nice parts and not so nice parts as perhaps where you chose to settle. The comments you made seemed more general of problems in Greece as a whole so is it Athens or all of Greece you are disparaging? You might re-read the comment and see that you missed the entire point of the conversation.

As for my question on her homes, I can ask any question I please though again, 1 you missed the point and 2 she could tell me to mind my own business but you are not her so please explain your role in this conversation; perhaps jester?

Olá Caue,

Boa tarde!

Just remember that under the current Visa Waiver Program agreement that exists between Brazil and Greece you are permitted to remain in Greece for only 3 months in any 6 month period.

If you wish to stay longer than that you should contact the Consulate-General of Greece in São Paulo to enquire about either the Student Visa or Work Visa requirements that would permit longer stays.

Cônsul Geral da Grécia : Konstantinos Konstantinou, Conselheiro

Vice-cônsul de Assuntos Comerciais : Gina Velentza

Endereço :Av. Paulista, 2073 - Conj. Nacional HORSA II,

23o andar, Cj.2303

01311-940-Sao Paulo-SP

Telefone : (+55)-11- 3251 0675, 3283 1231

Fax : (+55)-11- 32621096

e-mail : grgencon.spa(at)mfa.gr

e-mail de assuntos comerciais : ecocom-spa(at)mfa.gr

Cheers,
William James Woodward, EB Experts Team

Thank you Concertina and Nixterman for your comments!

This is a forum, which means we can voice our opinion. Greece supposedly started the concept of democracy, right? So, we all have to remember that here. Not being sarcastic, being friendly. It's hard to inflect warmth or well wishes into mere words, but my intentions are genuine. That is why I wrote a HUGE post to the original poster. It wasn't just about Thessaloniki being great and Athens being horrible. I never said that. But Greeks themselves have told me that, how shall I put this, "Athens is the armpit of Greece." Athenians have joked about this!! If these are their words, I'm sorry, but I feel that I've been way kinder as an "outsider."

By the way, to be fair, Thessaloniki is full of its share of problems, such as homophobia, but so is all of Greece. Greeks cross themselves all holy-like in front of every church they pass, but don't extend the same love to immigrants (Bulgarians, Albanians, Pakistanis and Bangladeshis up in Thessaloniki), and they definitely don't give a crap about homosexuals. They are nice if you are with them, but generally express disgust and dismay, and also cite religion as the reason why "it's wrong." Reminds me of middle American attitudes, minus the guns. Also, there HAS been violence in Thessaloniki against the LGBT community, which has been universal knowledge and all over the media with the rather barbaric way that gays are rounded up and thrown into prison without trial or representation. Not that they should be on trial (!), but they should at least have public attorneys for this obvious transgression of civil liberty.

Athens HAS had violent demonstrations. If tear gas has has to be used, that means there was some provocation. Athens is also the place where that rapper was killed. Yes, it was isolated, but racism is intact. I know Greeks are loving and mean well, but I don't care what you say -- the common consensus is that immigrants are taking up all the jobs. I find this hilarious because Greece caused its own problems (from people not paying their taxes, to corrupt politicians, to a fractured and inefficient government, to lack of decent exports, to utter lack of innovation, to corrupt banks, and finally because of stronger states in the union cashing in on Greece's downfall) and it was only a matter of time before shit hit their fan. From Thessaloniki down to Athens, racism and xenophobia has been a real issue.

Concertina, you weren't being rude, you were saying your opinion. This isn't a conversation just between Nixterman and I. If that were the case, he should have inboxed me. But, he wrote on a thread, so he needs to realize that there will be replies on the thread to his comment....just like HE replied to MY remark.

I know Nixterman means well, and he did not put a personal attack on me. Nixterman thank you for clearing that up. But you say that people need to hear only of current conditions and not history. This is wrong. History repeats itself, after all, and Greece is still going strong with a multi-year recession that will probably not end for another 10-15 years. So, the whole picture needs to be seen. Past, present, and ideas about future.

By the way, the original poster said he wanted a job, but that wasn't the point of his entire post. He wanted quality of life. I hear Athenians get away to Thessaloniki all the time to get a quick and affordable break, like a mini-vacation. I don't really hear of Thessaloniki residents rushing to Athens to do the same. In my opinion, Athens is too big of a city to have any quaintness of rustic Greek life to it. Thessaloniki still has maintained this charm.

Leena