Why do some motor drivers don't look, before they go forward, Ahead?

I do believe wrote:

Gritman - I said it earlier; your skill riding a bike is inferior to the average Vietnamese but is of no consequence anyway. I also have been riding motorcycles since I was a teenager but in my case I'm only 68. It took me about a year or so to figure out "how it works" here. I used to think exactly as you do but now I understand why they do what they do. Of course we will have a percentage of idiots as we do in the West and here we have hazards (like pushcarts and old women) that we don't have. Put your ego on hold and realize that most teenage girls know how to drive in Saigon better than you; open your mind to learning. A child can operate a crane with 10 minutes of instruction but does that child know how to read a load chart or have the ability to figure out the weight of a load? It takes learning over and above the mechanics of operation. I suspect you are a better motorcyclist than when you were 16. Figuring out how to safely drive in Saigon will make you one of the best in the world - if you want to be.........

Wow...just read back through the thread there....not sure what Old IDB has been smoking....but if driving like you have a death wish is a sign of a talented driver then I've been going about it all wrong these past 4 years....you take any one of these "Expert" Vietnamese drivers, put them on a road in any civilised country and see how long it is before they are beaten to death with their own rubber sandals by a mob of angry drivers.

colinoscapee wrote:

My main point is my life is in danger with the driving here. I just came back from riding to the beach here in Vung Tau and a taxi came down a main street on the wrong side of the road and pushed everyone off to the pavement. That is the sort of thing that shouldnt be happening, but as usual not a copper in sight, so the taxis just do what they want.

You've answered you own argument there 'colinoscapee' and I agree, it's totally unsafe whichever form of transport you use. Whether your in control or not. There's a video on youtube showing a Vietnamese bus crash on a bridge, shocking stuff and if you've ever been on a bus journey here you know how edge of the seat frightening it can be. Taxi drivers seem to be the worst, followed closely be the minibus drivers. They all want that fare and will kill anybody who gets in their way to get it.

The other point that bothers me is even when the locals know they are doing something wrong, they still expect you to avoid them. Try this next time someone is driving up the wrong way,dont move out of their way and see what they do. I bet they keep driving straight at you and then give you that stupid look of"what have I done" or you get the standard "gì". It really is time to start to fix the problems instead of peopl saying learn how to drive like the locals, that is not solving anything, thats just compounding the problem.

I wonder how drivers here got their drivers license? Nearly 90% of drivers break the road rules when they go out (going the wrong way, cut corners, drive head on your side when you're trying to turn, speeding on sidewalks during rush hour, coming out on the street without looking left first....) Just bad habits I guess from seeing how others drive. There is no "yield" skill or take it easy attitude, just me, me, always me first. Would be nice if they banned honking your horn here, such annoyance.

I find it stunning that not one single expat on this forum understands the traffic flow and raison d'être in Vietnam. Everyone wants to compare driving here to driving "there" and I'm sorry guys but they do it just as well here. Outside of the usual percentage of nut jobs, driver's here are competent in this environment. I can shout as loud as I want that you aren't in Kansas anymore and nobody will hear me. Instead of complaining about any single habit you have seen, why don't you ask why? Many Vietnamese read this site and can explain. Just because somebody does it different than you doesn't make it wrong.

I do believe wrote:

I find it stunning that not one single expat on this forum understands the traffic flow and raison d'être in Vietnam. Everyone wants to compare driving here to driving "there" and I'm sorry guys but they do it just as well here. Outside of the usual percentage of nut jobs, driver's here are competent in this environment. I can shout as loud as I want that you aren't in Kansas anymore and nobody will hear me. Instead of complaining about any single habit you have seen, why don't you ask why? Many Vietnamese read this site and can explain. Just because somebody does it different than you doesn't make it wrong.

Can you hear yourself talking?

I'm starting to wonder if this is all a ploy of a master internet troll.

The way people drive here is simply indefensible. Sure, there are rules, but nobody bothers to follow them. But do you realize that road rules are created to maximize the safety of both drivers and pedestrians? What everyone here is trying to say (and you're too daft to understand, apparently) is that here in Vietnam virtually nobody follows the rules, which leads to the roads being dangerous, and an alarmingly high number of accidents and fatalities.

Pretty much what " I DO BELIEVE IS SAYING "

Learn to cope with our surrounding, this is our new way of life. Let's adopt with it, Learn their way.


Drive Safely
Is Your Life!!

@suprnova - nonsense

@ssuprnova - attacking the poster does not give your ideas credibility.

Ideas?

I'll break this down for you real quick:

-Traffic rules are created to increase road safety. Not an idea. A fact.
-Virtually nobody in Vietnam follows traffic rules. Again, not an idea, simply stating what the status quo is.
-The number of traffic accidents and deaths in Vietnam is alarming. Idea? Opinion? I'll let you answer this one by yourself.

I have done a lot of driving here and understand how the locals operate on the road, but having some clown come around a blind corner on the wrong side of the road is not justifiable by anyone.There will always be expats who defend the driving here, it seems to make them feel they have become more acustomed to the way things are done here and the rest of us are idiots. To each their own, but I can say with great honesty the locals have no idea how to drive, they cant see whats happening any further then 2 seconds away and that creates major problems.

Disagreeing among ourselves, wont accomplish anything.

Colinoscapee.. Quote".I have done a lot of driving here and understand how the locals operate on the road, but having some clown come around a blind corner on the wrong side of the road is not justifiable by anyone.There will always be expats who defend the driving here, it seems to make them feel they have become more acustomed to the way things are done here and the rest of us are idiots. To each their own, but I can say with great honesty the locals have no idea how to drive, they cant see whats happening any further then 2 seconds away and that creates major problems."

The Only Questions Is !!!

CAN YOU ***OR ANYONE** DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT TO CHANGE THE WAY THIS "CLOWNS ON THE ROAD, THE IDIOTS ON THE ROAD!!

SIMPLE ANSWER "" H*LL NO "":
I"M EXPAT, IM NOT DEFENDING THEIR WAY>>> I JUST WANT TO SURVIVE!! IS THEIR CRAZY WORLD!! WE ARE ALIENS HERE!! LOL

THANKS

Cyberaktif wrote:

colinoscapee wrote:

You better reread what I wrote, I am not condoning the driving. Seeing as you only have 2 posts, I feel you may be new to online forums or just a shit stirrer.

?? You refered to others who praise the driving here.  I was agreeing with you.  Chill.  I'm not into flame wars, they're boring.

Ok, no problem, but your wording wasnt overly good.Yes I did mention about people who defend the driving, but I also said they treat the rest of us as idiots.

Sbonilla75, cant see anywhere I mentioned I could change it. But it doesnt take a lot of brains to see that the driving here is bad,40% of fatalities are people under 19 years old, thats a bad statistic.

I do believe wrote:

Just because somebody does it different than you doesn't make it wrong.

According to Vienm traffic laws it is wrong.

Driver the wrong way down the street is illegal.
Failing to yield is illegal.
Running red lights is illegal.
Failure to use turn signals is illegal.
Texting on your cell phone is illegal.
Talking on your cell phone is illegal.
Speeding is illegal.

The list could go on for quite awhile but I think you get the jist. You are trying to defend their driving when even the Viets complain about it.

When I asked my Vietnamese wife to ask a guy the other day,when he rod into a coffee house with no lights on, why do you ride with no lights on, his answer was it saves me gas, she just shook her head,She asked another guy why don't you guys use your turn signals,answer, why do I have to use those, you only have to use them to pass your test.she turned to me and said,you see with the stupidity of these guys our roads will always be dangerous,
As for IDB the guy is an idiot and is only looking for Brownie points from his young Vietnamese ladies he so admires,  it took him a year to fathom out how it works in Saigon it took me only three weeks

Gritman wrote:

When I asked my Vietnamese wife to ask a guy the other day,when he rod into a coffee house with no lights on, why do you ride with no lights on, his answer was it saves me gas, she just shook her head,She asked another guy why don't you guys use your turn signals,answer, why do I have to use those, you only have to use them to pass your test.she turned to me and said,you see with the stupidity of these guys our roads will always be dangerous,
As for IDB the guy is an idiot and is only looking for Brownie points from his young Vietnamese ladies he so admires,  it took him a year to fathom out how it works in Saigon it took me only three weeks

What about turning the bike off at the lights to save fuel for 15 seconds,god bless them.

Gritman wrote:

(I do Believe),or should that not be, I KNOW IT ALL,
I find your remarks amusing
You don't Know me,you have never met me,you know nothing about me only my age and that I've been riding for 54 years,you have NO idea of my riding skills or where I obtained them,you assume that I have never ridden in Saigon,yet you have the arrogance and the audacity to criticize me and tell me that I should come to Saigon to be taught the skills of riding in the city by young teenage girls that you so admire.
I lived in Saigon for over a year with my Vietnamese wife of six years and my 19 year old stepdaughter who had lived in the city for over 10 years'
I would ride with my wife, s'daughter and a bunch of her teenage friends,you know the ones you admire so much all over the city on many occasions,
I lived in Saigon for over a year and rode daily before moving to where I live now,
I have no issues to riding in the city I actually find it a doddle,
As for my riding skills my Vietnamese family and friends that includes all the young teenage girls you know the ones, will tell you I do posses the so called skills of a Vietnamese rider.

  .

Now that one was real funny. Saving gas by turning off the lights. 

I fell in the ravine because my brother in law turned off the lights. Than the bike actually ran out of gas and carplunk I went into the ravine pitch black. I actually have a video of it.

Western driving you can't trust your life that drivers will avoid you for your bone headed mistakes so we drive to not put yourself in those dangerous situations.

In Vietnam it is the opposite. You put yourself in those dangerous situations, pick your poison and trust the driver will not hit your vehicle. To drive in Vietnam takes a different mindset.

khanh44 wrote:

Western driving you can't trust your life that drivers will avoid you for your bone headed mistakes so we drive to not put yourself in those dangerous situations.

In Vietnam it is the opposite. You put yourself in those dangerous situations, pick your poison and trust the driver will not hit your vehicle. To drive in Vietnam takes a different mindset.

Agree,it seems when they are doing something dangerous you are expected to avoid them.I had a guy take a swing at me when riding my bicycle, he was riding up the road the wrong way in a small lane and there was no room to get out of his way unless I wanted to be hit from behind by another vehicle. Its do then think, instead of think then do. Such as when they fly out of a hem in front of you and just about hit you, instead of slowing down and looking then proceeding. Why are they all in such a hurry, they are so impatient, yet take them off the road and they are quite patient people, that is except when queing.

Hi All,

Please note that some off topic posts were removed from this thread.

Do not hesitate to continue discussing about the original title of the discussion: Why do some motor drivers don't look, before they go forward, Ahead?

Thank you and have a nice day,

Hasnaa

I haven't mastered the skill to fly out of a hem yet.  I still stop and look all ways. Though when you're riding merrily along the main road you're expected to avoid those flying missles out of the hem by slowing down and preparing to brake if neccessary and not riding too close to the right. They fly out but luckily most will make a 90 degree turn.

I dont think i'll ever be able to fly out if a hem without looking left.   One thing ive learned is to take the initiative.  It goes against my years of driving defensively but i try not to hesitate when i need to make a move.  You have to be slightly aggresive or you'll sit in that roundabout all day

Most motorcycle drivers here have a drivers license (legally or bought) and if everyone have to take a test drive again complying with strict road rules.... i doubt if 90% will pass the test. . The mentality here is "if you can get away with it" do it! drive on the sidewalks, opposite side of the road...Who's gonna stop them? 1 cop to 10 thousand drivers at rush hour? so bad habits rule. Even though all bikes have mirrors , they are not used, because it's not cool (they often laugh when i ride my bicycle with extended lefthand mirror, it keeps them from passing too close). Drivers also like cut in front of you to turn right, they think it save gas? I just pretend to go straight, then at the very last moment turn right, this way you do not get squeezed onto the sidewalk.

Hey everyone, it is what it is.... Where else can we live a life of playing chicken. Everyone wants  to play. It is exciting and not for those without skills for avoiding a collison.

Most important thing is 'negligent and reckless' driving 
They have their own reasons. Sometimes when we think that's true. Yes, they are running to make a life in this city with others. We know well that they are on poverty line. To live in this city they need some reckless actions. With regard to them driving is nothing. How many of us beholding law and order.
In my opinion, if you want to drive safely and slowly, just drive on the extreme right of the road. Then people who hurry to go can take the left portion 
A kind of sharing.... 

charmavietnam wrote:

just drive on the extreme right of the road.

Good luck with that. That's one of the biggest problems is you can't drive to the extreme right due to everyone driving the wrong way down that side and flying out of interesections without looking.

On another note here in Bien Hoa there are putting up traffic cameras all over the city not just interesections either.

If you drive on some of the busier country roads, the bike lane is full of sand and gravel so you end up in the damn car lane.

Driving behaviour is an extension of how they approach every other facet of life.....it's all about me and my needs.....hence the country remains less developed

A lot of the blame for bad driving and road behaviour should be placed on the government and police. They dont seem to give a damn, you never see cops out after about 8pm and when you do its just for tea money. The VN government needs to stop with all the talk and get police on the roads and flood the media with the road laws and a serious crackdown on the driving culture here. I ride my bicycle at night after 9pm I  have sat down by the road and counted on average 10 bikes per minute breaking the road rules that go by me. Thats a ridiculous amount of traffic offences, but alas, the police are back at home or out drinking and couldnt care less.

I have to be honest I think the problem is you are holding on to your western mind set of driving I was on a motorbike one week after arriving in Vietnam and everywhere I ate or drank I sat on the road and examined how they do it. I haven't even come close to crashing after a year. If you are constantly almost crashing then you are driving to quickly to have time to react. I love the Vietnamese people to death but the thing that used to INFURIATE me the most is the way they cut the queue. Its mind blowing and I would get really bent out of shape and refused to believes its culture but after more time elapsed I realized it IS indeed how things work here. First come first serve. Almost like a game, if you can cut someone successfully then good for you, you win. Next time be quicker. Queuing is not their cup of tea.

The secret to line cutting is getting your money first on the counter doesn't matter where your body is.

Yeah at first annoying but you soon learn Vietnam is a culture of constant alertness and quick wits.

Zoli954 wrote:

I have to be honest I think the problem is you are holding on to your western mind set of driving I was on a motorbike one week after arriving in Vietnam and everywhere I ate or drank I sat on the road and examined how they do it. I haven't even come close to crashing after a year. If you are constantly almost crashing then you are driving to quickly to have time to react. I love the Vietnamese people to death but the thing that used to INFURIATE me the most is the way they cut the queue. Its mind blowing and I would get really bent out of shape and refused to believes its culture but after more time elapsed I realized it IS indeed how things work here. First come first serve. Almost like a game, if you can cut someone successfully then good for you, you win. Next time be quicker. Queuing is not their cup of tea.

Zoli has it pretty much right; if we drove by the written rules, traffic would come to a standstill and this goes for every country. The difference in Vietnam is that we have a huge motorcycle environment unlike anyother. There are the written rules and there are the unwritten rules. If an expat wishes to drive safely (as much as possible) he/she has to learn the local rules and forget about his/her home country experience; it "ain't" the same!  I suspect that not one person knows what the safest speed is on any road and regardless of what country you are in. I supect that not one policeman knows as well even though it was well published in Canada in 2000.

My friend and I joke that Vietnam does not have traffic laws, only traffic suggestions

Very true, be quick to have your ready money in hand extended out. Get eye contact and blurt out what you need first. Felt good the first time I gathered the balls to cut someone who was waiting before me. I wanted to jump up in their face all like "BOOYAAAAAA HOW YA LIKE ME NOW?????!!!!!!!" But I am just a hair more mature than that so I didnt

In Western Culture you are responsible for not creating an accident. In Vietnam you are responsible for not getting into an accident.

@Zoli954
NO ONE cuts in my line when I'm waiting - unless they want a loud discussion.

I have two friends in VNPT and they both say there is nothing they can do if another customer cuts in. They both say Foreigners protect their line positions and they agree that it is the only way to handle it.

At a local VietComBank the guy at the cash desk favours attractive women with short skirts. I always complain out loud, waiving my number slip when he tries it. He has learned now, as has his manager.

DRIVING
I follow the VN Highway Code. It says that people from the right only , on roads, have the priority, and this doesn't refer to side-walks or private garages.

VNese drivers think that others should avoid accidents for them - I don't. Try to come off a side-walk in front of me and the chances are good that you will get a minimum of being hit - maybe even falling over.

The inherent weakness in a motorcycle is the lack of a bumper. So I added one, a pointy one. If there are a stream of cars doing a quickie turn across a lane if traffic, I can break it. When a bunch of vehicles ignore a red light, and I have the green, I can break it - and do.

VNese drivers know they are doing wring but they try it on if there are no CGST around.

And taxis, moving from a parked position, better use their mirrors and wait for an opening otherwise they will get scratched if they try to push in front of me. I also use POV cameras to back me up.

They learn, slowly.