Purchasing real estate in Ukraine

Hi Syrus,

may I ask if you are planning to buy real estate in Ukraine? "A small 70 meters apartment" you mentioned is not small for Ukraine. Typical flats built in the Soviet times (1 room apartments) are 32-35 sq. meters, according to the standarts of that time a typical soviet citizen had to live on 7.5 sq. m of so called "actual living space", now these standarts are changed to 10 if I am not mistaken. 70 sq. m you can find in primary real estate, but the building of it was frozen in many areas - thanks to the crisis. And still, even in these new buildings the "budget" flat is 50-55 sq. m

hi Hanna

thank you for the insight. I was not aware of such allowance for human living spaces in the soviet times (7 1/2 meters oh my God). Assuming a flat of normal size 35-40 meters, what would be price for such a place in or near the center in the cities i listed.

my main concerns are price, and laws that govern ownership. I am an American citizen, can I buy real estate in Ukraine with some confidence that I actually own it? is there laws protecting property ownership by foreigners in Ukraine? are such laws governed or protected or fall under the jurisdiction of international or European union laws in anyway shape or form?!!!

this is the basic question? does anyone of you have experience with buying, holding, and even renting out real estate in Ukraine?!!!

thank you for your time

Well, I can make some research for Kiev real estate, but you should keep in mind that Kiev differs from the rest of Ukraine, and quite a lot, especially as for renting prices. Let me know if you are interested

hi Hanna

i am interested in purchasing and not rent. but again for the cities i listed, and off course I am aware that Kiev real estate is very different than other cities in Ukraine.

Also, do you have any information regarding the "laws and regulations" governing real estate transactions in Ukraine?

thanks again for your time
Syrus

ok, as for laws. You have right to purchase real estate on the territory of Ukraine. You need to have (apart from money, of course) your passport and you need to go to any tax inspectorate and to get an identification number, it takes a week to get it. There you need just to fill a form and to give them your passport, nothing complicated.
The puchasing is regulated by the Law of Ukraine "About Property", the complete version you can find on the state website of Ukrainian Parliament (Rada). Haven't visited it for a while myself, but it seems they have an English version. The procedure of purchasing is controlled by the Civil Code of Ukraine.
Foreign citizens have the same rights and responsibilities regarding their property in the territory of Ukraine as citizens of Ukraine do.
As for possible breaking of the Laws. You need to find a good and reliable real estate agency. This is the only way to avoid cheating and further problems - and they really can appear.
What  you will have to pay (apart from the money for the real estate):
- Collection to the Pension Fund
- Certificate of no tax pledge on all buyers
- Registration of the purchasing-selling contract in the register
- Notary services
- Agency services
- Registration of a contract in the BTI (state service)

Well, something like this, but it is not the full version, of course

hi Hanna

thank you for the useful information. I must say there is a lot there to contemplate an digest. you seem to know a lot about this process, then maybe you know a European or International law firm that handles simple real estate transactions in Ukraine. i have found few names, but like yo know what you think?

Also, do you have any information regarding prices for a 35-40 sqm flats in the different cities I listed in my original email?


again
thanks for all the valuable information

Syrus

hi Syrus, your question on prices is too vague.  it's the same as if you said "describe to me a typical Ukrainian woman from 20 to 35".  You said you wanted the centre - what kind of a centre? For example, there is the centre like main street in  Odessa, and there is an actual central area, which is spread far. It's far from glamorous, why would you want to live in the dumps, built in 19 century, with the toilets outside, with a communal kitchen for seven - eight families, what for? Because it's the "centre"? There are prestigious apartments in the actual centre (let's call it like this), but you can't afford them, they go for about half million dollars (House of Scientists, with the sea view on Gogolya is an example).  On the other hand, Fountain area is a very prestigious area, as well as French boulevard, and it's not in the centre. Do you want a knew building, a Stalinka, a Khrushchovka? How many rooms are you looking for (in Ukraine, they sell apartments per rooms rather than meters, and rooms are not bedrooms, but actual rooms, three rooms apartment has three room, one kitchen and one bathroom). With or without the balcony? On what floor? (Do not buy anything on the first floor, the toilet will be constantly flooded). Then you pay per square meter (of all the area, toilet and bathroom and kitchen included). Again, where? In Poskot, they sell it for 600 US per square meter, but why would anyone want to live in a high building in the middle of nowhere, surrounded by nothing but other high buildings, with a plenty of sad drug addicts gadding about? You mentioned meters - I saw a place, which was one big empty space, a lot of meters, but nothing inside, and you had to build partitions to create kitchen, living room, bathroom and so on on your own, and then legalise it and  get a new tehpasport (technical passport) for the apartment. Perhaps you need rooms, after all, and not square meters. Are you seeking a real estate where they can speak English fluently? If so, you will be limited for one or two, if any. They can't care less what happens after you buy, and their only goal is to sell the place to you and get their commission. They are not responsible for anything afterwards, too.
  In short, you are talking like an amateur. The centre is not always the best place to live (well, not all of the centre, or else the prices are too high), and you yourself do not know what you want.
If I were you, I would have settled with the city first. Drop
Kharkov and Donetsk from your list at once, huge industrial dumps. Kiev is a more advanced, teeming with life place, but, then they have Chernobyl. Odessa is a seaside resort, many people buy properties there and then rent them out for profit. Choose one, then go there and explore, at least to see the area where you would like to buy. If I were you, I would have hired myself an interpreter, at least someone to look after your interests, since you do not speak the language. Ah, you can't buy a property without a notary, so, you hire a notary, and for your money, he/she checks the deal for any frauds
and discrepancies.

hi Altiva

thank you for writing such descriptive response to my question. I am absolutely an amateur in Ukraine real estate, my experience is limited to USA and Iran. but, i like to add to what i have, and i think Kiev has in its future a robust real estate market.

Thank you for your explanation about "rooms vs square footage" for apartments, now i know that I am looking for 4 or 5 rooms (1 or 2 bedrooms, kitchen, bath, and living room), and 35 to 70 square meters.

i don't know the street names. but I have been to Kiev over 10 times, and i define the center to be 1/2 kilometer radius  area around the independence square. 3rd or 4th floor. building should have working elevator.

i have also been to Odessa a few times, and I like that city as well, however i prefer to live in Kiev as you would expect.

Now, focusing on Kiev, and within 1/2 mile radius of independence square what would a 4 room, and 5 room apartment in average shape go for?

by the way, i dont think 1/2 million dollars for a nice apartment in good location in Kiev is bad price. that is normal in all capital cities. try to buy something in any European capitals. real estate is not cheap unless you buy outside cities where no one lives, and those areas are usually for farms. I love nature, but i rather live among people and not trees, cows, and chickens in farms.

regarding an interpreter, to be honest, i have not decide to make any moves as of yet, however i do have a few friends there, and when i decide to actually pursue a deal i will certainly take your advise and with the help of my friends I will get me an assistant that is also a notary.

oh, also, i taught Kharkiv has the highest number of university students and it is an educational center of Ukraine, i am surprised your opinion of that city is so low !!!

I really appreciate your input, every little bit of information helps.

thanks
Syrus

Hi Syrus.

I am currently looking out for real estate in Kiev. Together with a renown agency we are looking through some options. I hope to close a deal before the end of year. Would be great if we could be of any help to each other.

Regards,

Mowgli

Syrus I guess you should check the cities and see for yourself. btw in the latest study (Focus magazine) in 2010 Kharkov is the best city to live in (given the entrepreneurship climate, students, costs of living, ecology etc).
Donetsk is a very well developed city as well.

vladsv wrote:

Syrus I guess you should check the cities and see for yourself. btw in the latest study (Focus magazine) in 2010 Kharkov is the best city to live in (given the entrepreneurship climate, students, costs of living, ecology etc).
Donetsk is a very well developed city as well.

Interesting info. Could you give me a link for the "latest study (Focus magazine) in 2010"?

I tried to Google it found a few ))
FOCUS The Journal of Lifelong Learning in Psychiatry
focus.psychiatryonline.org/

Thanks

Hi I am a n owner of a real company in Kyiv.  Today I posted information about buying/renting in ukraine.  When the moderators post it it should answer many of your questions.  It is not so complicated it just confusing if you do speak the language or understand the laws.  But it is not much different from other countries.

[Moderated: no free ads pls]

I own property in Ukraine and  plan to buy more. I am a USA citizen, married to a Ukrainian woman. I have a residence permit, so I have had little or no problems with the system. I can also recommend some good people in the real estate industry.

My wife's mother passed away and she needs to file a claim for a share fo the family apartment.

She tried to deal with this while in Ukraine for the funeral but due to time constraints was not able to get very far and now needs to finish the process from the USA.  T
We have already prepared the property claim forms and a "power of attorney" form appointing her friend to act as our agent with all the necessary apostle seals, etc. but have no idea where to go from here.

Can someone please help as to where the forms need to go (her friend is not able to get any information locally as to where to go either.)

Start from visiting any notary office.

She saw 3 different ones and none of them were of any use.

There first complaint, she does not have a Ukraine Taxpayer ID nor a Ukrainian Passport (she immigrated to the US prior to them issuing new (USSR) passports.   She went and applied for a Taxpayer ID but it takes 10 working days (less holidays, weekends, etc.).  They expect her to pick up the ID in person as well as file all paperwork in person.

She only had 2 weeks to deal with things including arranging a funeral. She has appointed a friend to be power of attorney to deal with the Taxpayer ID but according to the notary, that Power of attorney is not valid to file paperwork nor are they willing to accept paperwork the friend even if a new power of attorney is executed.

See the problem.   My question is where are the claim forms filed?  I'm sure the registrar, court, etc.  The Ukraine Embassy has prepared the documents including a power of attorney for the friend but they don't file the documents (Under Ukraines new simplification process)..

Then find a lawyer cause you have already noticed a number of peculiarities (absence of a tax id, notaries' rejections etc). No one will give you a good advice without looking in the papers and studing your particular case.