New member traveling to Panama in June 2013

Hi The iz monsta,

Welcome to Expat.com!

Thank you for this introduction.

Best of luck,
Christine

Why Panama?  Tell us what makes you want to come here?  How do you want to live?  You said the beach and close to PC.  That would be Coronado to me, which has a lot of expats but is rather pricey. 

Are you aware that the national average income of locals is less than $600 a month in most of Panama.  In fact the number is closer to $500 and malnutrition is growing.

So if you wanted to move here and practice your profession you are looking at expats as your income base, largest expat bases are in Boquete, Las Tablas, PC.  Other areas are expanding their expat base.  There are a lot of work requirement visas you will need to get before you can open any business.  I have several contacts in PC who I trust to help you through that process but it won't be easy.

Opening a business here in Panama also requires that you hire locals. And Panamanians do not like competition.  They will cut you off at the knees if they think you are competing with them. 

The country is beautiful.  The people can be friendly.  But you need to know the environment of the place you want to go to better.

The cost of living in PC is also way higher than in the rest of Panama.  In Boquete we were able to live for less than $700 a month, but we lived like locals and that isn't for everyone.

You need to live here for 6 months to see if you like it here.  Do no invest, move bank accounts, move furniture, etc. until you have lived here 6 months to see if you can really live in Panama.

It is good that you are starting out so young to look for a place to retire too.  Panama will change a lot by the time you are really ready.  I would also suggest you take those years and explore other locations in Latin America.  I would recommend exploring Uruguay, Argentina and Chile. All with very large expat communities. 

Do you speak Spanish?  Do not even consider moving to any Latin American country without knowing Spanish.  All business documents will be written in English and Spanish and the only legit version will be the one in Spanish so you need to know what it says.

Just some thoughts. I'm sure others will share too when you tell us why Panama?

Thanks for the reply.  My patients are coming for their second time next week.  However, they are 65 and don't need to work anymore.  I think they are leaning towards Coronada but were talking about Boqueta.  It doesn't look like practicing chiropractic would be a viable option down there from everything I've been reading.  I will no doubt have to wait till I'm at least 60 to actually retire down there.  That gives me 15 more years to figure it out.  My wife also wants to check out Ecuador and belize.  What do you think about those areas.  I was thinking that if I could figure out where I really want to be I could buy a lot where I want and plan it out over 10 to 15 years.  Maybe build a house so when I reitre I have a lot and a house paid in full.  Then I would only have to worry about cost of living without housing.  I'm getting together for a lunch with my patients when they get back next month.  They said they would know a lot more after their second trip.  Peace

Mike

Mike,

I wouldn't suggest Belize because it has gone the way of Costa Rica - it's been overrun with expats which means the cost of living has increased greatly.  We loved Costa Rica to be sure and Grecia was one of our favorite cities in that country.

We have friends in Ecuador and they love it, but some people are still saying that Colombia needs to be explored as an option. 

We also have friends who bought a condo in the Coronado area.  The place is nice but I think the costs in Coronado are too high and you will need a car in that area in order to shop and do anything else.

I still recommend living some place for 6 months in order to see if you will like it before investing anything.  You don't want to get stuck with a piece of property that you then can't unload (check out viviun.com and even boqueteguide.com).  There are so many empty homes here in Panama that well meaning expats built but then didn't want to live in or even lots of land that is for sale, again from expats who won't be building. 

I know a guy who only purchases land through the Panamanian government.  He will not use a realtor because of how often expats have been cheated by locals and even other expats.  If you want contact information let me know.

I applaud you for thinking ahead. Both of you. Best advice, pack a suitcase and travel as long and as far as you can.  The year before my husband retired we traveled for 4 months through 5 countries; Panama, Nicaragua, Uruguay, Argentina and Chile.  We have since been to Costa Rica and Mexico.  We are getting ready to explore Europe.  We are the new breed of expat - the 6 monthers.  We don't plan to live in any one country longer than 6 months.  Why get tied down to one country?  There are too many places to live and be a part of. 

I'd love more information about where your parents are thinking of going.  I hope they are dealing with an honest person in Panama.  They are sometimes hard to find.

Best,

Florence

Hi Mike,
You're in a similar situation as mine as far as looking for something now and not actually living there or using it for many years.  My partner and I are heading down to Panama in February to look at Panama City, Coronado or Gorgona.  Our thought process is to buy something soon and rent it out.  Then when we retire in 8-10 years from now, move there and do the snowbird thing. It seems a lot of advice is to not buy something until you have lived there for 6 months or so....however that scenario wouldn't work for me as I Want to use some of my 401K funds for the purchase.  My thought process is I buy now and rent it out.  When I retire in 8 years or so, move there and live there for 6 months.  If I love it, then great, if not, sell.  I would have had 8 years invested in it so the property should increase over time and it will just be an investment.  We are looking in some of the areas I mentioned because we want to live among other expats.  Will send a note when we get back as to our findings.

I'm thinking Panama city would be expensive to retire to.

I'm planning a trip to David . 

Let me know how you make out. Good Luck

Thanks, my wife and I were supposed to come down for our 20 th anniversary in June.  She was starting to get a little stressed that I was going to have her hoofing it all over panama so we decided to take my friend up on a free trip to Dominican Republic.  We are looking at coming next February.  I still have the same interest in panama but I probably have 15 years before I would stop working here.  I think our first trip will probably be split between Panama City for first 3 days and then stay within hour or two drive.  Maybe coranado

Coronado and Gorgona are on our radar...So far it seems Coronado might be untouchable in regards to my price range, but the area has some positive attributes ie: beaches close by and about an hour drive to Panama City.  Gorgona ( I heard ) is not as popular yet, but have heard it might be up and coming as it is 15 minutes to Coronado and an hour from PC.  And the prices are not as high as Coronado (yet). One major factor in my choice is rentability (I know not a real word) since I will have it rented the entire time i'm waiting to retire (5 years or so).  So far it seems the money and rental success rate are in the City.  I will do a lot of homework while there and let you know when I get back.
Jon

The great thing about Coronado is that there are plenty of towns around it, some are a lot more reasonable as far as rent/purchase of a home is concerned. You can also check out Chame and Punta Chame, both very close to Coronado, definitely close enough to use the Coronado restaurants, supermarkets, and other businesses. A friend of mine was selling her house in Chame for I think $165,000. Chame is maybe 15 minutes from Coronado, probably not even that far.

Guys, the real savings that occurs in relocating to Panama is the adjustment you are forced to make in your lifestyle, not just the cost of your house or condo.  Unknowingly perhaps you realize a car is just a mode of transportation.  You buy a popular Kia, not a BMW (and likewise avoid being an attractive target to thugs).  You eat out at a road-side cafe instead of Olive Garden. You buy comfortable clothes, not designer fashions. Your criminal nephew calls someone else when he needs money for a lawyer.  Your church builds the new wing without your pledge.  Life just gets (or should get) simpler and therein lies the savings, IMO.  But, on real estate even if the cost is the same (I think it's cheaper in P.C. compared to practically any other major U.S. city), your property taxes and condo fees are far less.  So, don't hold Panama to an unfair standard and think you can live like a king for $400 a month.  Examine the crap you waste your money on now in the States and I think you'll see far greater savings in these other areas, including healthcare.

One thing I would try to avoid is buying land and then building unless you're going to be in Panama the whole time. You're gonna want to be close to the property so you can visit the place almost everyday. You'll need to inspect the building process to make sure the builder is following the plans and doesn't make changes to them like window placement and sizes, electric plugin placements and amounts per room, making rooms smaller. All kinds of things happen at the homesite like workers walking away with the building materials then you being charged extra when it needs to be replaced and being told it took more than what was calculated in the plans. I'm thinking about buying land in Panama but before I build I'll make sure that I'm renting somewhere close to it that I can visit everyday. lol-They'll think I'm an employee by the time it's finished.

Sawman:  Excellent advice. I think you summed it all up in just a few paragraphs.

My wife and I are seriously considering moving out of the US. Don't like whats going on here. Panama sounds very doable. I will take your advice to heart.

Have fun,
Rocco

Yes no doubt.  I have a good friend named Bob, I call him bob the builder.  He s building my next house here and then he says he can come down and help me build something in Panama.  I'm starting to think that I'm going to have to get some land away from the popular expat areas so I can get a good deal. I dont think i would need to build a house with more than 2k sq ft.  I very excited that my wife is actually considering this in the future.  For now i'm try to convince her in four more years to move about 20 miles out from where we are now so I can get about 3 acres and build my last house untill I move to Panama in about 15 years.  Peace

When you say Coronado is pricey, can I ask a rough number? $1000, $2500, $4000?  Looking for at least a 3 bedroom place with AC and wanted to know rough prices to rent something.  Note sure if it fits are budget or not?  Also would like it to be in a gated or "safe" community.
Any help would be great...thanks

Kperson,

When I was in Coronado last summer I saw about 6 condos that were all under $200k from 1 to 3 bedrooms and all had their own A/C in each room. HOA fees were around $200 a month. SQFT was from 750 to 1000. By Colorado standards these prices were over priced but to my NY City pals they thought this was a steal. I guess it is what you are use to and what you have to compare to. For a Colorado guy I thought this area was over priced.

Cheers,
Wolf

Crynwolf wrote:

Kperson,

When I was in Coronado last summer I saw about 6 condos that were all under $200k from 1 to 3 bedrooms and all had their own A/C in each room. HOA fees were around $200 a month. SQFT was from 750 to 1000. By Colorado standards these prices were over priced but to my NY City pals they thought this was a steal. I guess it is what you are use to and what you have to compare to. For a Colorado guy I thought this area was over priced.

Cheers,
Wolf

Try and find, say, a Gulf Coast of Florida ocean-front (or near ocean-front) condo for under $450,000 and still not be around a bunch of monthly renters.  Can't do it. Top end finish-out, say 2400 sq. ft., start at $800,000 in Touquoise; most over $1.0M.  Miami is higher.  So, yes, Panama is cheap comparing beachfront to beachfront.

Pick another country......Ecuador, Columbia, Argentina or Cuba are all better than Panama. I've been here 7 years, built my own house, grow organic products and I'm sick and tired of doing things the Panamanian way. They NEVER keep appointments and will NEVER call you to say they can't make it. They NEVER return your fon calls or NEVER are on time. They give you all kinds of BS as to why they didn't do it your way. Forget a bank account here. The banks are worse than in the USSA. They don't want your account bcoz of the IRS requiring them to turn over all your information and transaction info as well. They lie to you about your getting an account but after they screw you around for 2-3 months they finally say that they deny your account. They don't need to give you a reason. Immigration is another nightmare and any lawyer is a liar!!!! They really don't know what they are doing except to keep asking for more money. If you want a real lawyer, you'll need to pay thru the nose for them.

The government here has sold out to the USSA so it's just a matter of time till the SHTF here as well. If you drive around you will see all the check points and the police dress in SWAT uniforms and carry automatic weapons, like in the USSA.

I could go on n on but it just gets me upset. Good luck to you but seriously...pick another country.

Jim

Great to see you are interested in Panama. We have been in Panama for seven years and hail from Canada. We love it here and have been in development as well as owning our own resort. I agree that Coronado is a good match for you. We are also interested in using our resort for natural healing, nutrition, fitness etc. We feel that Panama is a great fit for this kind of industry and believe that the area would greatly benefit from the services of a chiropractor.

Good luck in your decision to move to Panama and look us up when you are in the area. Our resort is called Punta Chame Club and Resort.

Is your resort good for kids too?