business in bali

#3 25 January 2013 13:34:24

Wendi & Drew
Wendi & Drew
Adelaide

Re: business in bali

To run a business legally in bali as an expat you must set up a legal company.

Bali Business Registration for Legal Bali Business & Secure Bali Investment Pt or PMA company..

There are several good companies in Bali here are a couple you could contact

immigrationindonesia.com

austrindo.com

baliconsultant.com

Good Luck

#4 28 January 2013 02:22:24

Ubudian
Ubudian
Ubud, Bali

Re: business in bali

I totally agree with Wendi & Drew.  You will need the services of a good attorney, a notaris is not enough for the licensing and reporting requirements to establish a business in Bali as a foreigner.  Also you will need the proper visa (Kitas) and a working permit which costs US $200 a month. 

If you haven’t already spent a lot of time here in Bali, you should as there are lots of potential pitfalls involved in establishing a business here.  Expats ebb and flow like the tide in Bali, and the vast majority of newly established business fail within their first five years.

#5 06 February 2013 16:02:29

guymanners

Re: business in bali

Indoboundchick wrote:

hi to all
question... do i need to register my business name in bali if i do how do i?

BJ

Hi...
It depends what you want to do. If you want to work, i.e. to earn any money, thyen legalls you need to register a Business. You cannot do this alone, as a forgeigner - except with some forms of PMA (Forgeign Investment Company).
Anyway it's very tricky - and the way to do it, the amount you pay, how long it takes etc are all dependant on which Agent you use. Oh yes - sorry - use an agent. Its the only reasonable way; although they take a fee, it will save you money in the long run - and a lot of time, ; also reducing the possibility of making a mistake . Dont underestimate the cultural differences between here and wherever you are from - its like a different planet - so get a Guide! (i.e Agent).
You ca also ask several, and see what they offer. Dont tell them you are doing this, they may get stroppy.
A tip - go with th flow. Dont think you have "rights"; and tie everything up legally (if you have partners etc) to the MAX - any foreginer here having a legal battle only has about 10% chance of winning - even with contracts etc - so make sure you are as safe as possible!

Reckon on the whole

#6 13 February 2013 02:46:11

vina.varadilla

Re: business in bali

you may just come to dinas perizinan. nowadays their way of work is a lot more improved. you can google map it.

Dinas Perijinan Pemerintah Kota Denpasar
JL. Untung Surapati, No. 4, Denpasar, Bali, 80233, Indonesia
+62 361 221865 ‎ · denpasarkota.go.id

#7 13 February 2013 06:36:40

Ubudian
Ubudian
Ubud, Bali

Re: business in bali

Vina, are you seriously suggesting that a new inbound foreigner just show up on their own at the department of business licenses in Denpasar? 

Not a good idea IMHO.  A foreigner needs good professional local help when wading through the waters of Indonesia’s bureaucracy. 

One such company which has been around for many years and with a long track record of success and happy expats is PT Bali Ide.

#8 13 February 2013 07:00:57

vina.varadilla

Re: business in bali

sorry, have you ever actually tried it for the past 7 months?
have you actually been to dinas perizinan just to look around for the past 7 months? if not, safe your comment to someone else
I took care of a 5 stars hotel license without using any agents and it turned out to be a lot easier and cheaper.
nowadays the government wants to minimize company to use agents and come directly to them. all fees and requirement are openly display there.

#9 13 February 2013 07:36:16

Ubudian
Ubudian
Ubud, Bali

Re: business in bali

"I took care of a 5 stars hotel license without using any agents and it turned out to be a lot easier and cheaper."

Of course!  But you're an Indonesian so I expect nothing less.  My Balinese wife does the same for our business.  We don't use an agent for that sort of thing either.  However, for a foreigner, forget about it.  Use an agent/attorney and avoid the potential pitfalls and please note, the original poster "indoboundboundchick" is from Australia.

Vina, those potential pitfalls for foreigners are FAR, FAR greater for foreigners than for local Indonesians.  Surely you know that.

Last edited by Ubudian (13 February 2013 07:45:04)

#10 13 February 2013 08:18:08

vina.varadilla

Re: business in bali

Duh! I dont see why you should sell up an agency company in a forum when she even doesnt ask for one.
If she wants to start business automatically she should have a local partner as Indo law doesnt allow foreigner to own business. She and/or or both the local partner to go to dinas perizinan instead of agent. period.

#11 13 February 2013 09:21:04

Ubudian
Ubudian
Ubud, Bali

Re: business in bali

Of course she'll have an Indonesian partner, but where do you think the capital investment is most likely to come from...the Indonesian partner?  LOL! Fat chance I'm afraid.   

Look Vina, I'm trying to be practical and realistic without being rude. The fact and realities are that any foreigner investing in a business in Indonesia (or any foreign country) had better get professional and objective advice before entering Kantor Dinas Perijinan, signing any contracts, or handing over any money.  As an old founder of my country once said, "penny wise, pound foolish" and I think he (Ben Franklin) also said, "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure."

I'm rather surprised you would argue against what is clearly good common sense. 

And btw, just for the record, the laws of Indonesia allow for a foreigner to own up to 95% in a PMA company. With only 5% for the Indonesian to possibly lose, well, do you see my point?

Last edited by Ubudian (13 February 2013 09:23:59)

#15 21 February 2013 14:39:55

vina.varadilla

Re: business in bali

all these talks about agent bla bla who take advantage by putting fees makes me sick. agent and Ubudian implicitely called official who asked for bribe is all the same, different name but same species

To the OP indobounchick, dont be scared of Ubudian paraoid story, If you feel insecure I can help you PRO BONO. I can come there with you and you can always come to me for questions and assistance :)

#16 22 February 2013 11:06:22

Ubudian
Ubudian
Ubud, Bali

Re: business in bali

Vina, with all due respect, you’re Indonesian and thus have little need to be “paranoid.”

For westerners, I’m not advocating paranoia, rather just common sense and
CYA.  In my fifteen years of 24/7 full time living on Bali I’ve seen far too many westerners get burned because they didn’t bother with the proper legal documents and instead, they acted only in good faith and trust.  Common sense clearly dictates that isn’t enough. 

Frankly, I don’t know any westerner here in Bali with a long running and successful business who hasn’t engaged the professional services of an attorney.

Expats here in Bali seem to ebb and flow like the tide…they ebb in with pie eyes and fists full of money, and they flow out with crying eyes and fists full of sand.   And that is an undeniable reality.  When you've been living on Bali long enough, you'll surely come to understand this as well.  Bali vs. Jakarta...two totally different worlds.

Last edited by Ubudian (22 February 2013 12:00:50)

#17 15 March 2013 05:51:15

guymanners

Re: business in bali

vina.varadilla wrote:

all these talks about agent bla bla who take advantage by putting fees makes me sick. agent and Ubudian implicitely called official who asked for bribe is all the same, different name but same species

To the OP indobounchick, dont be scared of Ubudian paraoid story, If you feel insecure I can help you PRO BONO. I can come there with you and you can always come to me for questions and assistance :)

Hi Vina
I'm an expat, who invested with a friend here. The story is long, and nasty, but after 1 year, I still have no contract because the Indonesians who I did business with have my money - so simply refuse. I am a victim of my own optimism - I thought that I didnt need an agent, or lawyer. Now I have no rights, and am being pushed around.
This story surprises NO-ONE here in Sanur, as foreigners are constantly taken for a ride  - in fact, most people here (both expats and local businessmen) think I am lucky that I still have a job!
Another example - my friend invested here - his partner arranged a dodgy KITAS for him, and when the business ran well, he called the police and my friend got deported for having a fake KITAS.
In the UK these people would be arrested for what they have done. In the US someone would shoot them. Here they are seen as being good businessmen - everyone knows what they have done, they have gained respect for it.
So speaks one of the expats that you say, dont need agents, or lawyers, to be protected. My advice for any foreigner investing here would be - dont. Just go somewhere else.

By the way, if you want to help me - pro bono - I would be really grateful!

#18 15 March 2013 06:25:37

vina.varadilla

Re: business in bali

guymanners wrote:

Hi Vina
I'm an expat, who invested with a friend here. The story is long, and nasty, but after 1 year, I still have no contract because the Indonesians who I did business with have my money - so simply refuse. I am a victim of my own optimism - I thought that I didnt need an agent, or lawyer. Now I have no rights, and am being pushed around.
This story surprises NO-ONE here in Sanur, as foreigners are constantly taken for a ride  - in fact, most people here (both expats and local businessmen) think I am lucky that I still have a job!
Another example - my friend invested here - his partner arranged a dodgy KITAS for him, and when the business ran well, he called the police and my friend got deported for having a fake KITAS.
In the UK these people would be arrested for what they have done. In the US someone would shoot them. Here they are seen as being good businessmen - everyone knows what they have done, they have gained respect for it.
So speaks one of the expats that you say, dont need agents, or lawyers, to be protected. My advice for any foreigner investing here would be - dont. Just go somewhere else.

By the way, if you want to help me - pro bono - I would be really grateful!

hi guymanners,

scam is not only happened between expat and local, even local to local. I know a local from outside bali got scammed by local balinese in property buying, business venture and so on. And its not only happened in bali, it happened outside bali as well. I know few 4 to 5 stars hotels like mine paid triple and even 4 times more when they re dealing with their trusted agent.

when you want to get partnership with local you had to have legal agreement before you give any money to your partner. Even we had to have prenup before we get married, we called it cover ass procedure. But some people who aren't an admin nature doesnt really pay attention regarding this matter. Always ask second and third and even fourth opinion, the more you know the more cautious you are and little chance they'll scam you. You can send me further info about your situation. I know some lawyers that could consult it with.

cheers!

Last edited by vina.varadilla (15 March 2013 06:32:54)

#19 15 March 2013 09:04:30

Ubudian
Ubudian
Ubud, Bali

Re: business in bali

Vina, if you acknowledge the very real possibility that exists here in Bali with getting scammed or ripped off, why did you write, “don’t be scared of Ubudian paranoid story?”

What Guy is trying to tell you is that he wished he had my advice before he entered into a business relationship with a local here in Bali.

As he writes,

“I thought that I didn’t need an agent, or lawyer. Now I have no rights, and am being pushed around.”

Mengerti?

#20 15 March 2013 10:07:24

guymanners

Re: business in bali

"You can send me further info about your situation. I know some lawyers that could consult it with.

cheers!"

Vina

thanks for that nice offer - its good to know that people are trying to help other people here on the forum, by offering advice and names of places where they can get help, as both you and Obudian have done . Of course it is always better to get the advice before you get scammed, which is why Obudian wrote his helpful words, I am sure.....
I am still trying to get a friendly outcome to my situation, and I have the impression that a lawyer cannot do much, because I dont have a contract; if you could ask if I have any hope even without a contract, I would be very grateful.
Best wishes to you all
Guy

#21 17 March 2013 21:58:56

LinaTheHague
LinaTheHague
Den Haag

Re: business in bali

@vina : Hi say, punya FB ga? aku mau tanya banyak nehh

ada rencana mau business di bali,tapi denger2 klo bukan org bali ga bisa beli tanah di bali yah? gmn klo bikin bisnis spt bed & breakfast di bali? atau Resto gitu? prosedur na spt apa yah?

bsa email saya ga say ke nnsimbolon at gmail dot com

makasih banyak yah
Lina

#23 22 June 2013 04:35:49

rizky

Re: business in bali

Business buying and selling land in Bali is currently rife in Bali or investment property residence like hotel and villa

#27 06 September 2013 19:08:54

Lanapistol
Lanapistol
Perth

Re: business in bali

I'm looking at starting a new business in Bali, will also require rental property for 4 adults I'm interested in the process, who do you register the name with what kind of visas are required? I am really just I interested in what others have done and what is the best way about startup.
Any advice would be most welcome.
I intended to research several sites are there laws about how long you can stay what are the basic start up process similar to Aus I already have a ANB here and business name? How do I start for other there.? What about transporting costs.. Containers for goods?
Thanks in advance.
Lana

#29 07 September 2013 00:41:37

Ubudian
Ubudian
Ubud, Bali

Re: business in bali

Hi Lana,

Number one:  read this string:  http://www.expat-blog.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=292919

Number two:  Thoroughly check out this web site:  http://cyberbali.com/

Number three:  Write a realistic business plan.

Number four:  Consult with an attorney here.  Many Australians prefer to use Peter Johnson as he’s an Ozzie himself (and very good btw)  His firm:  http://www.austrindo.com/

Keep in mind that the very LAST place you should be consulting for information regarding a new business on Bali is forums. 

You might also want to keep these sobering statistics to mind:  One in ten new businesses on Bali turn ANY profit in their first five years of operation.  Seven in ten new businesses on Bali fail within their first five years of operation.

Good luck.

#30 23 March 2014 09:25:44

Ivonne Purba
Ivonne Purba
Jakarta

Re: business in bali

Hello guymanner!what kind that you have, if you have no contract?you can tell to this forum, may the forum can help. another way by email to me as a legal consultant: emeoni[at]yahoo.com

#35 07 April 2014 05:39:12

Ubudian
Ubudian
Ubud, Bali

Re: business in bali

Assuming that we're still talking about Bali on this thread, I must say that in my years living here I've heard very few tales of expats cheating locals and getting away with it.  Jungle justice is still very much in place here, and for those few cases that might reach the court system, the bule hasn't a chance of winning.

For certain, if an expat does put it over a local, they had best leave the island in a hurry, and never come back.   ;)

#38 07 April 2014 05:55:05

MikeWallace77

Re: business in bali

I mean I've been doing business with Bali since 1989 and heard so many sad stories from suppliers about foreigners ripping them off. They just try to take advantage of the very trusting Balinese people. Fortunately, more and more Balinese are taking less risks when it comes to receiving payments and giving their goods to buyers. But I still hear stories about it continuing.

#39 07 April 2014 08:20:19

Ubudian
Ubudian
Ubud, Bali

Re: business in bali

You clearly don't know the Balinese at all if you're under the illusion that they let foreigners rip them off.  That is one of heck of an urban legend! :lol:  Why not just add gullible and stupid right after trusting? 

On the other hand the Balinese love telling stories geared at earning them sympathy. ;)

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