New laws in egypt for workpermit and urfi?

Folowing my ration and experience in this country, i can say this things are impossible in both cases at the moment. Never heard of it, anyway. Orfi marriages are done so in case of a child things will be judged according with the islamic law. This matter is strongly connected to religion, so impossible to change it.

hi layla,

1)About work permits , nothing has been changed ,no news for this for foreigners or expats. i have many expat friends and many colleagues here are expat and their work permissions are still valid and nothing has been changed about this matter.

2) About Urfi marriage , it is something really debatable it is legal in case u will live in the same flat but for saving rights u should make it fully legal by documenting it at the Notary.

As they said "NO news is good news" so, we don't have any new news for these issues .
I wish I could Help:)

sorry, you are misinformed, check this out:

Egypt's labour minister to stop issuing work permits to foreigners
New Labour Minister El-Borai announced he will stop issuing work permits to foreigners amidst resentment of employers who take advantage of cheap foreign labour

The whole article is here: http://english.ahram.org.eg/~/NewsConte … ermit.aspx

if you google you will find more information.

and I also heard that in Sharm and Hurghada they go to companies and check the permits of foreigners. If there is no work permit (I think in many cases) the company gets a fine.

Geely, U r right. but non of my friends consider this issue or even know about it .it is really serious topic. so far nothing has been revealed?

maybe when you have a work permit it is okay, but getting a new one seems to be more difficult.

Hello,

To get a work permit in tourism field is one of the hardest thing to do now, and max 6 months of a tourist visa and you will have to leave the country and come back if you want. And the tourist visa, 1 month at the airport 15.00 USD, and then month by month, you would be lucky if you get 2 months visa and the three months visa is exceptional. Here are the conditions,one only is enough.

1 opening a local bank account with a minimum of $50,000, 
2 a work permit
3 buying property (an apartment) in Egypt.

Regards,
Mina

Hello,

What about new comers who'd like to work in Call Centers in French? Because the article of Al Ahram is saying that some profiles can be hired...

I don't know about worker laws, but urfi marriage is a bad idea believe me. It has barely a religious, social, or legal basis at all and barely holds up in courts. If you want to marry someone, do it legally. Just my opinion. Good luck.

According to that article, it sounds that they are referring to people that are being paid 'less' than Egyptians.  If thats the case, it sounds like they are referring to a particular group of perhaps more blue collar workers? 

Most of the jobs I'm familiar with offered to foreigners are paid higher than Egyptians.  I wonder what group of people they are referring to.....

Also, with the whole 'Orfi' marriage, I know someone that had a child with a man under that 'marriage' and didn't understand it wasn't legit.  He then married a 'second' wife, and gave her child to the new wife!  Obviously, this dude has absolutely no heart, but either way, it sounds like she has no rights! Scary!

About orfi:  just yesterday come from Lozogli. When we signed orfi 2 weeks ago, lawer told us that by this paper we can live together and even have babies. But when we called to one hotel (we wanted to spend holidays in Hurgada together in one room, they told us that orfi is not acceptable for this)
If there's marriage between egyptian and foreigner, you must do everything officially by gowerment. BTW I am cristian and my husband is muslim, yesterday we went to lozogli and did everything oficially. So about religion there is no problem at all.

Sure please, I will be glad to help both of you. Now I can, as an expert, tell you everything about this process of marriage. Write me private message with her phone number.

I concur with ukr.dev85 given our identical situation (Egyptian Muslim husband with Ukrainian Christian wife).

Urfi has always been a quasi-legal thing that comes in all shades of gray not just black or white.

Urfi as ukr.dev85 is not recognized by the government so you cannot stay in a hotel with a Urfi contract, and Urfi contract falls into one of these categories (the list does not include everything)



1- Urfi that is admitted by both parties : Guarantees legitimacy of children, but no inheritance is guaranteed

2- Urfi denied by one party : Long judiciary process to prove or deny based on evidence (forensics, witnesses ...etc.)

3- Urfi that is not so serious : contract written by hand - sometimes without witnesses - to avoid being charged for adultery.


Unfortunately, for an Egyptian man to marry a foreign woman that belongs to ex-USSR (as well almost a dozen other nations), unless she already has a non-touristic visa valid for six months at least (like student residence, work permit, family-sponsored visa ...etc.), you have to get her one first.

Route #1 (shorter, but more difficult):

1- Apply for embassy approval, notarize approval at Ministry of Foreign Affairs notary office.
2- Get married Urfi (must be at a lawyer's office, stamped by the lawyer).
3- You need to take originals + 2 copies of each of the following to Immigration in Tahrir:

         a- Notarized embassy approval
         b- Urfi contract
         c- Passport of foreign spouse.
         d- National ID Card of Egyptian spouse.
         e- Entry visa and entry stamp of foreign spouse.
         f- Personal photo for both spouses.

Normally, after one week of application you'd have to go together to be screened by an immigration investigative officer (nothing difficult just to spot people who get married for a visa in return of money), and after that your documents are sent to National Security for a background check, 10 more days later you get your visa.

After that, you need to take all these documents (excluding Urfi) and go to the ministry of justice, to get legally married. You need a health certificate from a public hospital, five personal photos each, and a Family Insurance Fund stamp for 50 pounds from any post office.

Hi


I just wanna know are they gonna stop urfi in Egypt and they are saying there are fines and prison also now if not registered  is that true

Lulu1234 wrote:

Hi


I just wanna know are they gonna stop urfi in Egypt and they are saying there are fines and prison also now if not registered  is that true

No it's just rumours

Lulu1234 wrote:

Hi


I just wanna know are they gonna stop urfi in Egypt and they are saying there are fines and prison also now if not registered  is that true

Not true, but nevertheless Urfi is a quasi-legal marriage with all shades of grey and should be avoided at all costs unless really needed (as in the case of marrying a foreign national from a country which is in the list of countries that require a non-touristic residence visa as a prerequisite to marriage, which can only be obtained in such case using Urfi).

Well I hope they do stop it

Yes its better to cancel it soon

Lulu1234 wrote:

Well I hope they do stop it

Totally agree. However as I told you in some cases it's a must.


Also in some situations where people cannot get married legally, such as the case of an Egyptian marrying a foreign national whose embassy does not want to grant approval to marry to the foreign national for so many reasons :

1- Canadian embassy does not grant the approval as they do not have a process in place to check records back in Canada for the Canadian national's current marital state.

2- Some Gulf countries never grant the approval if a female Gulf country national wishes to marry an Egyptian male.

3- Some nationals must have a residence visa prior to marriage, with the only way to get this visa through Urfi first.

4- Sometimes obtaining the embassy approval is not possible due to the laws of the foreign country conflicting with the local laws here, for example if an Egyptian man is already married and wishes to get married again (Polygamy is legal in Egypt for Muslims for up to 4 wives) and the foreign partner's embassy requires proof of being single for the Egyptian partner .... In such case they can get married Urfi and go to court to legalize it since it's a de facto marriage now.


But, if legal marriage is possible but both partners choose Urfi, it's their problem actually ......

Lulu1234 wrote:

Well I hope they do stop it

Totally agreeeeee.

Why u girls need something such degrading as Orfi? If u thing your habibi is right one and u want live with him so marry him. If u want stay in this country invest here or buy something to have residency. And if u work here, there isn't problem with visa. Every  country have right to control who work in and also right to ask pay tax. Honestly foreign who always ask about that is european, american, russian etc. and theim own country is normal to have permit for foreigners with reason and pay tax if u work. So why people which like this country and decide to stay or even dislike but have job here (both) try to cheating this country or broke the law? It isn't same what we don't like by all our countries from immigrants or tourist which live there as illegal workers? Then why u do it here?

Mosu, sometimes Urfi is the only way to get a marriage registered if the 'official and legal' option isn't possible. For me, in my particular case, I am a German citizen, but I am a Muslim as well and do accept Polygyny. Therefore I was consenting to marry a man who already has a wife. Now, the problem in making it 'legal' is my goverment, which does NOT allow to get legally married to anyone who already is married, as that is not permitted by the law of my country. But do get legally married, we would need to bring a statement of non-impediment from my country, giving them basically permission that I can marry him. So since they don't allow to marry an already married man, I can not get that piece of paper from them, and without that we can not legally register our marriage with the Ministry of Justice. I can not demand him, just to get it legally registered, to divorce his wife and mother of his children so that we gain 'legal' status. Everything else is already done, there's nothing degrading in a 'common law' marriage without registering it. Quite common accepted if both parties are Egyptians. But if one party is a foreigner, that totally turns the legal tables....

@Azeera : right you are.

and for all ex-Soviet Union (plus some other nations) spouses, they need a 6-month residence to register their marriage with Ministry of Justice, and to get a 6-month visa, you need Urfi ..... So as a matter of fact you have to go through Urfi - Residence - Legal Marriage - Residence again !

Or, some people just do the Urfi marriage, then go to court to register it. Process takes a long time but at the end you get a legal marriage document, bypassing any obstacle (such as certificate of non-impediment, should your embassy decline to give you one for any reason).

Do you have any more detailed info about the process of 'then go to court to register it'??? And why does it take a long time? Would appreciate a response, knowing more people than just me who would like to get theirs also in order without having their government throwing them sticks and stones in the way...

azeera wrote:

Do you have any more detailed info about the process of 'then go to court to register it'??? And why does it take a long time? Would appreciate a response, knowing more people than just me who would like to get theirs also in order without having their government throwing them sticks and stones in the way...

Couple of friends of mine did it. Usually they do it for either your case (some obstacle in the normal process, such as your embassy), some do it because they want their legal marriage to have the original date of the Urfi marriage because they have children (backdated legal marriage) ......

The process is simple. You have a Urfi contract and you need to legalize it .... If both parties (husband and wife) admit the marriage, it makes it much simpler.

You need the following

1- A lawyer, preferably not from Hurghada because most lawyers there are sleazy scammers who try to suck as much money as possible out of expats. The whole thing should cost MAXIMUM 1000 EGP (for the lawyer fees, excluding translator and proxy fees mentioned in step #2 below, which are not much as well).

2- You and your husband need to make a lawsuit proxy for the lawyer at the Ministry of Justice - Notary office.

You need to do this at the notary office where your husband officially resides (i.e., where his National ID Card address is .... If it's for example Nasr City, Cairo, you need to go to Nasr City, Cairo). By notary office I mean "El Shahr El 3aqary - الشهر العقاري"

Furthermore, since you are a foreigner, you need to bring an authorized translator from your native language to Arabic. His National ID Card must have "Translator" in the profession field and he must have an authorization from Ministry of Justice as a translator.


3- The lawyer will go to court to reserve a court hearing for you and your husband for a Legalization of Urfi Marriage
دعوى اشهار زواج عرفي
which is pretty much simple. You will go with your husband and translator, the judge will ask you ..... Did you marry this man? Yes ...... He will ask him the same ...... at the end the court will adjourn concluding that your marriage is legal and binding.

4- Two weeks later your lawyer will bring a certificate from the court of appeals, stating that no one appealed the court order, making it a FINAL court order.

5- Now you are legally married. Congrats !

P.S: You need to take the court order to Ministry of Interior - Civil Status Authority in Abbaseyya, Cairo to get a document of legal marriage, which you will use later on for your residence visa, applying for citizenship, and pretty much anything legal related to your marriage.


Important note : without doing all the above, you have no right whatsoever to your husband's inheritance should he pass away.

It's worth mentioning that all the above takes almost no time and can be done in the same day, except step #3 which takes 3-6 months because all the courts are backed up with lots of cases (other cases, not just Urfi of course)

Sounds a bit complicated, though...we got our urfi marriage done at a lawyers office here in Hurghada, but his 'residence' address is not in this governorate, but in Qena governorate. So it wouldn't be that easy to go back and forth to all different courts, especially not quickly traveling there and to Cairo all in one day Plus it might be a bit more difficult to find an authorized translator in either places (Cairo or Qena governorate) with us just living here in Hurghada and not knowing such people there...

azeera wrote:

Sounds a bit complicated, though...we got our urfi marriage done at a lawyers office here in Hurghada, but his 'residence' address is not in this governorate, but in Qena governorate. So it wouldn't be that easy to go back and forth to all different courts, especially not quickly traveling there and to Cairo all in one day Plus it might be a bit more difficult to find an authorized translator in either places (Cairo or Qena governorate) with us just living here in Hurghada and not knowing such people there...

Urfi at a lawyers office can only get you 6 month visa. It doesn't guarantee your right to inheritance or right to stay here and if you have children it's a real problem to have them legitimized.

Furthermore, finding a translator in Cairo or Qena is not that complicated especially that we are looking for a German translator.

Finally, if you have a residence in Hurghada and can prove it, he can change his ID Card address to Hurghada .....

Also you can check at the local Notary office in Hurghada if they are willing to make an exception to make the proxy there.

Actually, i got now the second time a 1 yr visa, without any problems. And not even mentioned that I was married here...just filled out the application, paid the fees, and got another 1 yrs stamp in the passport...but that's a different issue.

He has his reasons  though to keep his residence listed in Qena governorate, because first wife and children living there. And they don't allow in Egypt to add a secondary residence on ID cards as to my knowledge...we will be going back to a lawyer and discuss this matter on how to get this done. Thanks for all your help and detailed information.

azeera wrote:

Actually, i got now the second time a 1 yr visa, without any problems. And not even mentioned that I was married here...just filled out the application, paid the fees, and got another 1 yrs stamp in the passport...but that's a different issue.

He has his reasons  though to keep his residence listed in Qena governorate, because first wife and children living there. And they don't allow in Egypt to add a secondary residence on ID cards as to my knowledge...we will be going back to a lawyer and discuss this matter on how to get this done. Thanks for all your help and detailed information.

As for the residence it is not an issue now.

As for the residence in Qena I told you, you might be able to get an exception to notarize the proxy in Hurghada .....

You are most welcomed, but beware of money-sucking lawyers

we actually have a good one, most of the time he didn't want to get even paid....not that we didn't insist on paying him then...so we are sure that he will not try to pull one off on us, because he knows that there's nothing to steal out of naked ppl's pockets

azeera wrote:

we actually have a good one, most of the time he didn't want to get even paid....not that we didn't insist on paying him then...so we are sure that he will not try to pull one off on us, because he knows that there's nothing to steal out of naked ppl's pockets

LOL good point. We have an Egyptian saying like this that - when literally translated - says : what can the wind take away from the floor tiles?

uhm....dust, leaves and plastic bags?

azeera wrote:

uhm....dust, leaves and plastic bags?

Stimmt ! which is practically worth nothing !

depends on the outlook....there's sometimes some very interesting things you could create with leaves and plastic bags...not so sure about the dust, though...sand paintings???

Do you know if Urfi can apply to 2 expats?

I live and work in Cairo and my girlfriend visits regularly on 30 day tourist visas.

Now.... we are expecting a baby.... and we are not married. We would like to have the pregnancy and birth in Egypt: is this going to be possible?

Is it even legal for her to be here while pregnant when we are not married? Do we need to show any marriage certificate to the doctors etc either before or after the birth?

If so can an urfi certificate do this? Would this allow her to get a residents visa?

Thanks in advance!