Racism

Hi, this is Spoons' girlfriend.

I experienced racism when I moved to the Midlands in the UK. Having lived in the very open-minded and multicultural city of Hamburg, Germany, this came as a shock to me.
Racism is on the rise all over the world, as we all know. The reasons for this are known as well. A forum thread like this is good to make people more aware of the phenomenon.
I was saddened to raed about the lady who experienced racism in Germany, but not surprised when I read it was in Bavaria... Up North we have  a strong anti-nationalist movement and seem to appreciate "variety" more.
I find that in the town I live in the Midlands, education is poor and many people are very narrow-minded. They don't realise that many of their comments are offensive to others, and if they are told so they don't care as they consider themselves superior to people who are not English/British.
Like I said, it is a rather small town...

Hi guys, imagine your country has chinese, indians, malays, australians, british, americans, hongkies, japanese, koreans, singaporeans, indonesians, burmese, thais and on and on... Isn't my country has one of the most nationalities? It's just crazy......... haha

petercasier wrote:

Of all the places I have been to, probably Dubai was the most tolerant place. Probably because the Emiratis only make 10% of the population. The other 90% comes from all over the world. There is no racism, because there is not one single predominant race, colour or religion.
I have never been to any other place where you see such a diversity of people, religions, culture, fashion, habits. It was a real nice experience... Us, Westerners could learn something from that!

And of course -despite common misunderstandings in the West- I also found the arabic traditions to be VERY tolerant towards foreigners... Even in a modern megapolis like in Dubai, but anywhere in the Middle East.

p.

thank you:)

Hi Sourire,

I am in agreement to disagreement with you on racism in Canada or rather in this world. Of course it is there where it is not? It's not in the books or politician's verbal communication but it's in the air, you can smell it sometime some places, at the same time it's not all time and all the places?
On the positive thinking at least it is not visible.
All the people are so nice (or at least they look nice), everyone talks to everyone, no matter whether you are a corvette owner colored or a homeless white, you get served equally at most of the places.
People wish each other, smile at each other, greet each other, help (only if asked) each other and things goes on. Doesn't matter whether you are in an elevator or in a ferry a conversation will be initiated and at the end of the conversation you feel that you are as much involved as anyone else.
Moreover it depends what you consider is racism? Like staring or getting alert or change in node then well it is quite noticeable. Generally I evaluate both factors before concluding anything. I was lucky enough to discuss this in a mixed open forum and could understand others (I mean not colored) feelings. Generally this happens because there is a cultural differences and wider is the difference the more will be apparent.
It depends how one accepts these universal truths, I am colored and in real life colors are eye-catching. Let's enjoy what we have and try to make it an improved world, it's always good when there is a chance for improvement and improvement takes us closure to perfections.
Forgot to mention that I live in BC. Vancouver was voted best place to live on earth, however I feel Vancouver is as beautiful as so many other places in this world, sorry vancouites these are my individual feeling, no offense what so ever.
Chao,
Have Fun

I won't go into everybody's experiment's, of course people may feel exclusion or racism differently. I'll just speak about India.

It is very unconfortable. For the new educated generation in modern cities or some particular cities that have seen more than only the english influence it is not a problem. However racism is very settled.
Education is not very lightened, most indians are sticking to traditional culture, and live in their shell, even so called bollywood culture is badly seen by some educated people.

But the bigest problem is the cast system still going on (while officially cancelled). There is racism between each others, casts and social status, racism between regions (each have their own languages, dialect and sometines alphabet) and towards non indians, it is worse. Foreigners are considered like untouchable (the lowest class) that have money, difficult then to avoid swindle or despise even from autority.
People stare at you... and when you are a girl it is worse not to say "dangerous". Few acts but sometimes a very disgusting mood, daily. Happily (or sadly) easy to get used to it, but I feel I became less tolerant since I live in India.

The good thing? Everybody is like that, so taking that into account, you just forget it and it is possible to meet very nice people and the foreigners you can meet are very open, whatever their nationality (multicultural parties is a must).
Culture gap is huge too, difficult to mix both logic and working and living become a headache, but that's what we like in India.

Yep best to come prepared, then you can enjoy

C.U.

I am quite happy living in England. It has migrant communities from all around the world and I think the British have pretty much adjusted to this reality. There are some groups/parties that are not quite happy about this and you hear racism or discrimination stories every now and again, but in general I would say it is not a widely spread behaviour.

It is amazing to turn around and see people of so many different cultures, wearing their traditional clothes, speaking in other languages, all of them sitting next to each other in the bus!

When I was living in Belgium I was twice attacked (together with my friends) by afrobelgian gangs in the metro. May be it is important to mentioned that in both cases we were speaking English (not French). Anyway I think these can be classified as racial attack. My life was also harassed (in my absence) in the city by afrobelgians. (I know from friend that there are belgabelgium neonazi gangs in the countryside especially in the Flemish part but I didn't have problems with them at least not in Brussels). This is and one of the main reasons we left Belgium and we'll never go back (and in general we'll never go back in this part of the world).

Here in Japan there could be many prejudices toward foreigners and the color of the skin but I never have been attacked neither my life was harassed.

[/quote

Adverts tend to only use "white, blue-eyed" Mexicans. If you want to insult someone, call them "indian". If you want to get service, don't be Mexican.

Has this tainted my experience of Mexico? Yes, of course. I love Mexico, I love the people, they are so friendly. But is that friendliness because I am a foreigner? Of course I am in a no win situation. I can't hide the fact I'm foreign - the blond hair, blue eyes, really bad-at-Spanish gives it away. I can't move around the country without experiencing this "positive" discrimination. Does it make me angry? You bet! Mexico and Mexicans have so much to offer the world. Their country is beautiful, their history pre-dates Europe's, their optimism outshines the tired, jaded cynicism of the first world. I just wish they could see it, rather than turning on themselves.

But, I suppose, that is the way of racism. It makes you angry that people can't see the beauty in differences. In this case, though, it is made worse because it is racism directed towards themselves - it makes no sense. But does racism ever?"

Code:

Hello!  My name is Maria, I'm Mexican living in Australia. About your comments, you are absolutely right, we always welcome foreigns from everywhere in our country because we always think everything from overseas is better than nationals. Im so overwhelmed for your comments about Mexican people. Here in Australia almost nobody knows anything about us, they think we are just the stereotype of having Siestas, drinking tequila, wearing sombreros and eating tacos. Of course that annoys me. My husband who is Australian doesn't believe me that he won't be discriminated in Mexico (He lived in Japan for 8 years)  He thinks Japanese are the best people in the world, even he struggle to find friends in there and being discriminated sometimes, he told me about people pointing him with the finger and calling him Gaijin (Foreign).

I love my country and I wish we would show more sympathy for ourselves, like you said We are a country with a long history and culture and there's nothing to be ashamed about it.

Regards.

I am in the Middle East. I am Asian, a trailing spouse, in a mixed relationship, a woman - enough said. Never in my life, I've been made aware of the colour of my skin as I have here. I can spout vile things to say about it, but I choose not to as there are times I've encountered good deeds from good people and it's not fair to trash the country where these few good people belongs.
The only consolation is, I'm leaving this place, but for the bad apples, this is their life. It could be worst, Saudi for example...?

It's not exactly racism but when I lived in Mexico the taxi drivers were really rude to me because they thought I was American.  As soon as I told them I was English, they changed their tune immediately!

racism sucks

May I kindly advise you to read Outliers by Malcolm Gladwell. I am a native of Benin West Africa and I lived in San Francisco for a while in the 10 during 10 years and I was in Geneva for 3 years. My company sent me in Singapore for 6 months and unless you are a black yo could never understand the racism from a black perspective same applies to maybe a white person in Japan ou a Chinese in Germany. Only a naive person will pretend there is no racism. Many ways of communicating, acting are biaised but every day you alwys have the opportunity to meet people who try hard not to listen to classic racism.

Most of Colombia doesn't get many tourists and even less expats, so racism against foreigners hasn't had a chance to develop. However, my very different look (tall, blond, white) does get me a lot of stares, which can be a tad disconcerting.
I never felt discriminated against in Mexico, Mauritius or Argentina, where I also lived, but in the Canary Islands (Spain), where foreigners, mostly from Europe, are in huge numbers I was called "gilipoya" one time too many! The word means both "foreigner" and "as**ole".

I think everyone has the write to like or dont like a person, but what you would do to show this things would make it "racism", in my country ethiopia, a woman, which i explain in my country's forum wrote about ethiopian people being "unclean and stinks" and more, she even made a blog to tell her story, its disturbing and disgracing how people go far to hurt their own kind

CLGinDE wrote:

I don't know if I would call it racism in my case, but being half-asian, I do feel very different in Germany.  In the US, I never really thought of myself as different from anybody else, but I think I am treated differently here.  When asked where I'm from, I'll answer, "I'm American" and either I get a confused look or sometimes people will say, "No, which COUNTRY in the Americas are you from?"  So, even though saying I'm an "Amerikanerin" is supposed to mean I'm from the US, I've started saying I'm a "US-Amerikanerin".  I also don't have any friends here. In the US I was at the center of my social circles and still have a lot of friends I keep in touch with, even after 4 years away.  Germans don't talk to me.  I always thought it was just because they felt that maybe I was uncomfortable speaking German to them (my husband says that I speak German fluently and with better grammar than most Germans - I just have a thick American accent), but after spending a day with a fellow (white) American, who spoke very very little German and after 9 months has a wide social network, I've changed my mind.  She introduced me to a German couple she was friends with and we started up a conversation on where foreigners could learn German (the couple had a Romanian friend moving to the area), the American excused herself and had to step away for a moment, I went on explaining the different options to the couple, and they stopped me mid-sentence and told me they didn't want to continue conversing, then they walked away.  On another occasion, I was walking through my neighborhood and was stopped by a woman who asked very rudely if I belonged here or not (it's a white middle to upper-middle class area).

Racism is present in Germany however.  There is of course, the neo-Nazis, but it also comes from regular Germans.  I've spoken to several people from Africa who have experienced it and I had a Japanese friend (she went back) who was chased and had apples thrown at her by a group of German teenagers (she couldn't understand what they were yelling at her).  I also met a Chinese guy in my German class who had lit firecrackers thrown at him.  Maybe it's just that I've only lived in what was East Germany, but the conversation with the couple took place in Bavaria, so I don't know.

I can totally relate to what you are saying. Before I moved to England last September, I had lived in the south of Germany for three years. It was the worst and best time in that country. I liked my course at university but I couldn't stand the city I was living. As you said, people never talked to me and if they did, they were rude. Plus, they always spoke in their dialect that - even after three years - I could not understand. One morning, when I was on my way to university by bike, a man on a bike started yelling at me. It was so loud that people on the other side of the road started looking. I have no idea what I might possibly have done wrong.

Before that, I had lived in a different part of Germany. I actually hold a German passport but never felt at home in that country. It was just weird. Even in school people made it very clear to me that I was different and wasn't supposed to be like that. In high school, they even gave me strange looks because I could speak English and French while most of my classmates were struggling to construct an sentence in English that was grammatically correct. Ever since I was ten years old, I wanted to leave. When I was 13, I wanted to move to Australia. I really like Australia and it is far away, too. Unfortunately, I could not quite convince my parents to move to Australia. So I travelled a lot on my own to be away from German as much as I could.

Here in England, I have never been happier. I can finally be myself without having people calling me all kinds of things and not wanting to talk to me for no reason at all. One of the first things that I noticed here was that, suddenly, I was not "weird" anymore. I finally live in a country I actually love and one that I am proud of. Living here in the UK is just wonderful. It may not always be easy. But life never is.

Racism is so common,both in one's homeland and abroad. i think the best way to deal with it is find someone,more like a mentor(if you are a mixed -race person) to encourage and affirm you. this helps you when you go to places where someone always has a problem with your skin color you could also,honestly,pray for genuine friends wherever you go so that wherever you have have people mistreating you outside,you can have someone to share  your frustrations with.

(moderated: you are off topic)

we dont feel racism men love my country kenya

i went to the usa and racism was very present and alive but when i came to kenya i felt that i did no longer have to bear the burden of racism.

It's alive and well here in the USA.

wow, quite the different views on Racism here. Well I've been born and raised in Bahrain, moved to Canada when I was young and back here to Bahrain a year ago (recession :-)

Although growing up here, you don't see it as much due to innocence, it is definately here and visible! Alot to expats as expats are defined so differently here. There are Eurpoeans, Americans, South Americans, Indians, Asians etc and everyone has their own community so to speak & only mingle with ppl of their own colour. Thats not to say that.

I have not faced as much partiality in Canada as I have faced here. However, there still are alot of friendly expats and good people in this country that make you feel welcome.

Good to meet and interact with everyone on here!

who started this racism?

i don't think all babies born in this world can differentiate colour and caste unless influenced by their surrounding. Colour is just a colour, it does not mean anything.

Humans, animals, flowers means a lot.

I don't know if it is racism or already part of the cultural repertoire, but I really don't like being called "white" (or "la blanche") wherever I go.  That being said, I am of hispanic origin, although often confused for all sorts of nationalities. I have experienced all sorts of negative comments and views depending on where someone thinks I am from.  I can say, though, that in Cameroon people have the feeling of being a bit tougher so it is easier to feel like the target of racism.

As I'm new on Expat.com I took the time to read all comments.
In my opinion we have to clarify the difference between racism and xenophobia. More and more this feeling grows much more and much faster than racism!
I'm latin, dark hair, relatively small (1,70) and lived this kind of feeling in Germany. I would not call it racism but xenophobia.

Ok, we can't think that racism doesn't exist anymore but nowerdays there is a reversing situation which should worry us as much as racism, this new and very actual fear of foreigners we can feel in almost every country...
Ones again and like in all of my comments it's just an opinion, just another point of view!

@flipper78

He is totally right. I live in Indonesia and there is a lot of racism here. They judge people from their heritage. Even on TV or commercials they say “the whiter the better” by selling whitening creams. In Holand it this commercial would be illegal. They discriminate their own people as well, because a lot of dark skin people live in this country.
It is positive discrimination for white people.
I'm a Dutch native. SO I am born/raised in Holland, but I am from Indian-Suriname descent.
So when people ask me here where do I come from and I say Holland, most of them don't believe me, because they don't have the intelligence to understand Chinese/Indian for example lives in many other countries then their ancestors are originally from. Even an amercian  once didn't believe me(don't know under which rock he lived there), then i bet him i bring my passport the next day and he'd pay me 5 million Rupiah  (500USD), then it shut him up.

@sunnyvee
“racism is everywhere i think, but much more in the developed countries”
I see you know nothing about the world or only watch TV and lock yourself up in your room.
Discrimination is definitely more in under developed countries. This is a known fact.
In most underdeveloped countries, they know that the white man had a bunch of cash and the darker you are the poorer. It goes (Especially in Phills, Thailand, Indonesia) something like this:
if you have dark skin it means you work outside. If you work outside it means you've got a crap job. If you've got a crap job here it means you are very poor indeed, probably living on or below the poverty line. And if you live there then death and degradation are a-scratching at your door….if you're lucky enough to have a door that is. Next time you spend a day at the pool check out your fellow swimmers. Between 10 a.m. and sundown you will have only mad dogs and Englishmen for company. After that the vampires come out followed by the rest of Jakartan society. Why? Simple. Social status.
The key is education Those people are not able to travel the World and Judge people from who they are and their skills instead of the cover.

@ Carlos C.
Perhaps in gernamy that's true, but certainly not in asian countries, they adore white people more then other races.
Even for datematching agencies, the fee to match you with a white person is more expensive then another race.

Well talking about racism - this came to my mind

Why are non whites called colored people
when it should have been the other way round
example-a white man has
1. white, pink or yellow skin,
2. blue, green, grey or shades of eye color.
3. golden, white, all shade of brown colored hairs
THEN Why shouldnt they be called colored? Han!

Spoons wrote:

Hi, this is Spoons' girlfriend.

I experienced racism when I moved to the Midlands in the UK. Having lived in the very open-minded and multicultural city of Hamburg, Germany, this came as a shock to me.
Racism is on the rise all over the world, as we all know. The reasons for this are known as well. A forum thread like this is good to make people more aware of the phenomenon.
I was saddened to raed about the lady who experienced racism in Germany, but not surprised when I read it was in Bavaria... Up North we have  a strong anti-nationalist movement and seem to appreciate "variety" more.
I find that in the town I live in the Midlands, education is poor and many people are very narrow-minded. They don't realise that many of their comments are offensive to others, and if they are told so they don't care as they consider themselves superior to people who are not English/British.
Like I said, it is a rather small town...

Mmmmm. intersting . I'm from the north and have lived in Birmingham for 6 years now .
I work in a hospital with many cultures .
I have found Birmingham one of the most friendliest places I've lived , and many seem to accept other cultures... Of course your going to get racism everywhere but I wouldn't say the midlands is less tolerant .
Education in many inner cities can be below standard and I don't think the Midlands has the lowest intellegence. But when you get higher immigrant population the standard of education will drop, due to the obvious fact that there is a bigger concentration of children having English as a second language

Sometimes it is surprising how a “professional” in a big institution like a US Embassy can commit silly mistakes arising out of racism.

Last week, my Ethiopian friend, owner of a well established company in Addis Ababa, a smart, motivated, hardworking professional who could build a renowned firm from a scratch applied for a visa for a business trip to the States. Only to be turned down by an interviewing lady claiming that "there is no convincing reason for him to come back to Ethiopia".

What did u say? I asked him. He said "She asked for my monthly salary, I replied that I don't have a salary; I own a company; I earn the dividends". And she won't understand such stuff from an Ethiopian. She insisted on some figure as a salary. She repeated the Question. I gave her some figure. Way, lower than my earning. She couldn't believe her ears. She said "Are you sure?" That was way too much for her understanding of an Ethiopian's earning. I said "Yes!" She finally said that she won't believe that I will come back here after the trip.

I tried to imagine myself remaining in the States- wandering from place to place looking for shelter and jobs and bread, being jobless, facing the double dip recession, begging, waiting for asylums. And then, I considered what I have achieved here - my company, my prestige, my workers, my clients, the future growth potential.

And all I could say to the lady is "only in your dreams" "

AliceWB wrote:

I am quite happy living in England. It has migrant communities from all around the world and I think the British have pretty much adjusted to this reality. There are some groups/parties that are not quite happy about this and you hear racism or discrimination stories every now and again, but in general I would say it is not a widely spread behaviour.

It is amazing to turn around and see people of so many different cultures, wearing their traditional clothes, speaking in other languages, all of them sitting next to each other in the bus!

Just read this and I agree with you fully .
England is well adjusted to differant cultures living there!!

I have moved to South Africa, and I never even thought I was going to have any type of "social" problems when I got here and, indeed, I didn't, people are always very friendly with me, they ask questions about how I find it here and if I miss home, usual stuff, but there have NEVER been ANY incidents of hostility or anythiong like that, neither from Africans, nor from whites. Suppose they're too busy sorting out the issues between the race groups inside the country) On the other hand, here, in the country that was once infamous for its "Apartheid", it is BY FAR not as bad in Dominicana, or Angola, or South America, as far as I see from the messages posted here. Truly, it is everywhere, people here were just the ones who invented the word for it!

I agree with that

When you openly call someone "foreigner" it excludes them automaticaly, makeing them feel even more strange.  It's the complete opposite of hospitality.
And yes; peopel from the far east are very good at making foriegners feel uncomfortable, from my experience and many others that seem to describe the same attitude.
Hospitality is making a foreigner feel at home; an art indeed practiced by very few communities far east.

Yes , i do get lots of problems about this whenever i meet some people from different countries, but i think with the time people are gtting mature enough to understand that atlast we all are human being & we all have to live happily on this earth

Very interesting discussion ladies and gentlemen!
I come from London where I think racism does exist but it is better concealed than in many countries.

I wanted to comment on what Wonderlust23 said (I see that she is a fellow Londoner). In my humble opinion it is undeniable that hip hop has a very negative effect on the youth today. Woman are constantly portrayed as objects, money is the new god, the constant use of the 'n' word, lack of solidarity long etc.
Any good artists with political messages or who are into black nationalism are not popular with the masses ie Immortal Technique, Dead Prez (past albums).
If selling drugs and merking people is glamourised then it will undoubtedly continue. Instead of listening to Jay-Z and 50 Cent, the youth of today should be reading Malcolm X's autobiography or 1984.
This is just my opinion but don't think that I live in a posh house in Hampstead

yes i also agree on that..

Living in England`s alright ,multicultural nature of the country would make most people fit in ; there is definitely some racist feelings against foreigners but fireigners bring in vital skills and should hold their own.

If you don't want to be discriminated, the most important thing is not to discriminate!
I simply can't understand why people discriminate. Can't they understand we are all the same, but at the same time different? Not only people from different cultures, but also from their own culture.
I believe that being foreign doesn't defines the person, being different doesn't tells you you are minority, so don't feel like that. Feel proud of being different !

I'm a Filipino working in Vietnam, often mistaken for a local and sometimes that works out fine. I just keep quiet and maybe they think I'm stupid for understanding them ---- then I start speaking English then there starts the talking... They have special treatment for *Whites and generally dislike *Blacks, because I sort of look like them they often don't know what to do with me.

At work, non-native speakers like me often work the same hours as locals do, higher salary but significantly lower than what native speakers get for less hours whether or not they have better qualifications than we do. I was once advised to pretend to be native speaker since I sound near-native. Not happening. I like being Filipino.

P.S. sorry, I wanted to use politically correct terms for Blacks and Whites but it was easier to state it that way.

in some countries racism is illegal such as UK and US but it is still practiced in a subtle way. its more about the people, the culture, tradition and way of life. In some countries there are more ignorant people than others. I recently went to Shanghai in China, and everywhere I went people wanted to take pictures with me, this was highly usual because I am not a celebrity but the issue was that they are not used to seeing black person in real life. Would you call that racism or ignorance?

In Nigeria, most people feel more comfortable dating someone from their own ethnic origin irrespective of the character of that individual, you can call it tribalistic but it all boils down to the same thing "discrimination" its the bane of the society and it cuts across all societies irrespective of the Nation