Barnevernet (Norwegian Child Welfare Services) Issues

I don't have personal experience with Barnevernet but I can share with you my colleague's experience.  My colleague has a very difficult child and when the child was in the daycare center, the teacher warned her that she will tell her parents if she does not behave.  for some weird reason, the child decided to lie to the teacher that she is scared because her parents will beat her.  there is no way her parents will beat her because they spoilt her to death.

Immediately the teacher notified Barnevernet without first consulting the parents.  my colleague and her husband have to endure 3 terrrible months of interviews and visits and finding witnesses to prove that they do not beat the kids.

The norwegians have a very narrow minded view of what is abuse.  Just a simple light slap on the hand is considered an abuse.  the kind you do when a kid is touching something dangerous like fire??

thank you for sharing fornight..

different cultures, i guess.. i read somewhere that a parent throwing a hat to her kid who was being disrespectful to the parent, was reported as an abuse..

yes,  its normal that kids can lie out of fear.. and u are correct,  the teacher should've talked to the parents first and not jump into conclusion about what the kid said..

was the child taken away right there and then? was the kid taken away from the parents at any point after it was reported to barnevernet?

You're in the true "kingdom of kids" , there , don't forget it !

It's because they sat laws and rules on this topic that children condition and consederation (and health !) got improved in those countries - And they are actually the countries ( scandinavian one) considered as the top protection system all over the world - a kind of model - isn't it ?

Never forget too, what they did during decades with handicaped people, or mad people.
Eugenistic policy , attempts to weak personality and so on ... maybe it's a real weight on their shoulders.

Anyway , I suppose they are ways of empeachment consedering abuses by administrative services, ways of acting. I mean in front of civil courts and judges who can defend both parents and children rights.
Of  course, it's allways a bad situation, but it's the way democratic countries are used to manage theses kind of social problems : ask for judges to sentence on a particular behaviour/situation in order to protect both sides.

Might  be unfair sometimes but you can introduce appeals..

But even if legacy and rules are pushed too far.... after some times it quiets down and turns to more regular practices and lead everybody on new ways of acting. If not ... see in some other parts of the world where people (women, kids, other weak minorities) have absolutely no rights AT ALL !
they die , are beaten , starving, no education at all, are sold sometimes as slaves etc ... etc ...

that's why laws are made for : to protect weak minoritites - sometimes in excess during a period but after some jusrisdictional sentences everything is improving on that purpose of protection kids, women, etc...

last thing : there are a lot of solutions, and means in western countries you can use to defend you ( as parents) or kids - I mean association, which are able to help and give advices.
A kid can't find alone, himself any help - he is not in "ability" to do so. - that's why we need a neutral authority to act , to survey and stop before too sad (or more) situation. Of course they are supposed to be "balanced" actions, and "framed rules" very ferm.

Same thing, as for beaten women, or rapped one etc... it was a long journey to get laws and rules to protect them !

Don't you think so ?

i agree, laws are really put in place to protect children and women coz they are more vulnerable to abuse... they are often the ones who cant protect themselves... i understand that... but based on these articles/news, the parents' side are often ignored, if not unheard... one thing i know about fairness (or fair trial) is that there are always both sides to a story..

and i had also been reading from comments that some Norwegians see this as a form of corruption in the government: more children in foster care, more money for barnevernet... i read a comment that bernevernet is one of the government units in Norway that gets the most fund.. this is not my opinion but just someone's opinion that i read... if this is indeed true, i dont think any government fund is worth ruining a family and emotionally traumatizing a kid over reasons that u cant even consider as an "abuse"... abuse by definition is a repeated act of violence, so i cant understand why an "accidental tooth-loss" be considered an abuse.. unless if its 2-3x an "accidental tooth-loss", then yea its an abuse since it happened more than once...

i also read an article about an evaluation resulting to a child ending up in foster care over reasons such as "not enough emotional contact between mother and child"... i am an affectionate mother, and my daughter is a really sweet kid... we hug each other every morning when we wake up, and kiss goodnight before bed... but that's us... i understand not every parent-child relationship is the same.. so i dont think its right to evaluate their over-all relationship based on how much emotional contact they "show" during those visits by the evaluator..

and another notable response from people is that barnevernet have no real understanding on what's the child's best interest... if kids really wanna runaway from parents, then that says something against the parents.. abuse may really be happening for kids to reject their family just like that, and be willing to be isolated... but what if the kids dont wanna be taken away from their families??? do they consider this very important factor in their decision to put kids in foster homes? do they consider the kids' want to be growing around his/her family??

i understand that kids needed to be protected, thats why laws are in place.. but are there enough laws in Norway to protect the family as a whole? are there laws that protect parents? are there laws about a kids right to love and care of his/her family?? are there laws about a kid's right to be heard in all these? it is them who will be put in random people's care, do barnevernet listen to what the kid ACTUALLY wants? these are all the questions that are running to my head...
 

Pheebz !

i understood right of the beginning you're a boiling character - You are sliding , balancing between two parts of the discussion : on one part your personal situation, which I can trust you is wonderful familial environment and second part, pathologigic familial situations where kids should really be protected because of bad treatments, sometimes light one and I told you there are institutions to appreciate that point and even get new appeal in front of courts, or regulators to stop administratrive abuse in case of.

One point : you said "abuse is a repeating event" - false ! legaly it is not ... cf rape or even scam. No use to repeat it - once is enough - and for kid abuse, I mean light one , the true pb is to determine when the boarder is crosed over. I had a kid and educated him in "nice conditions" but ... I saw many cultural environment where beating a kid is the use everyday. ( latine cultures south-europe or arabic one ). And it's true in northern countries they have a very hard similar historical background of that kind. I saw movies from sweden ans norway too , or danemark where it was described terrible situations for kids, but also for teen-agers in some specialised institutions but same was  in "family circle" previously - probably due to strict religious background. I guess. Really severe protestant education.
The reason of their nice "trip on wise education without ANY kicks, knocks, abuses and so on " and "improving methods of education and ways of living in a family" I don't know a word but I 'd like to get info on this topic, by psycho experts nativs from those countries.

To come back to the topic :
But, we all know these kind of experiences will be dramatical one, on both sides ( parents and kids).
Whatever it will turn to. That 's a fact - as for divorce , or any other procedure in front of a court. *
i had myself to face some and I know what I 'm talking about ! and I was lucky compared to many people just because of my educational program : I could understand the whole mess ! - many people don't catch a word about legal procedures, and court proceedings, and decisions.

BUT ! ... what do you propose , then ?!
Let's us know how you'll assure safety and wellness of kids , in bad environment ?
Parents are supposed to love their kid and be aware of good education methods - sometimes they are not ! what do you propose ? "drop it" for those poor kids ?  isn't normal the state cares and surveys in some circonstances , only, what 's happening in a few families when there are doubt about the way kids are living ? what do you do with all kids, or weak persons who are dying every year because of bad treatments ? do you have any solution ? except to release on God willness ?

i stand corrected thank you for that foster... i should rephrase what i said.. ABUSE is an act of violence ESPECIALLY (but not necessarily have to be) done repeatedly... yes, u are right, some kind of abuse is still abuse even if its done once..

i dont know any approach to this, to be honest..  i mean, i am new to Norway and still learning my ways around their culture.. altho in my opinion, any government still doesnt have the right to take away someone's child over a misunderstanding or unproven accusations... if you had read those articles/news, how the expats' children are just taken away, and even refusing to return or at least make terms/agreements even after expats' government already intervened.. giving these parents hell-of-a-life for a one mistake, when notorious criminals are living wonderful lives on their hotel-like prisons.... i am talking about these parents that (claims) they arent abusing their children (like the accidental tooth-loss russian parent)... but yea, i dunno much about this issue thats why i wanted to hear it from people (or at least someone they know) who have first-hand experience with barnevernet...

the reason i started this thread is to really know how true these articles/news are... and know some first-hand experiences, like fornight shared about someone she knows.. which is a good example how people can over-react over a simple lie which kids sometimes do out of fear... i just wanna know how true they are... i already asked my husband, and he told me that sometimes these news articles are exaggerated.. but knowing him, he just dont want me to worry coz im a natural-born worrier, i worry a lot.. and he just dont want to scare me more than how scared i am now about moving to a foreign country.. so i want an impartial opinion about this from people who are in Norway and are aware of the news... which btw, thank you for sharing your opinion

i just heard a story... a 1-year-old baby was taken away from parents... the story goes like this.. the baby fell off the couch the minute the dad looked away... they brought the baby to a doctor coz they got worried... then the doctor called for barnevernet... and they lost the kid, it took years before the baby was returned to them... YEARS??!!!! like seriously???!!! a one-year old baby is taken away from his family for a simple accident that happened, which lets face it, can happen to any parent.!!! this incident, i dont see it as an abuse but just some sort of a little accident... barnevernet saw it as abuse... but what about the kid's right to the benefits of breastfeeding?? not just the breatmilk, which is adviceable up to 2 years, but also the mother-child unbreakable bond resulting from breastfeeding?? taking away a baby from its mother, is abusive in my opinion.. actually, in my country, a child cannot be taken away from the mother unless she isnt fit to care for her kid -- mentally, financially, emotionally and physically... there is a law that protects the importance of "mother-child bond" during the early stages of child's development... so yea, taking away a baby from its family especially the mother over a little accident like that, is just inhumane in my opinion... 

if the baby fell off a 10-step stairs, that is negligence... i dont even see it either as an abuse if its unintentional... because abuse and negligence are different things... altho negligence is still not excusable and is really subject to investigation... but a kid accidentally falling off a couch, in my opinion is not an abuse...

this story may not be complete, since its just told to me as a story of someone else... but if this is true, i feel so bad to the parents and children falling victim to this system

I know someone who works for barnevernet and I have also heard the rules for their system. A child cannot be removed unless they are in immediate danger, and even if they are removed immediately barnevernet must provide proof of this danger to the courts within 48 hours (I think or it could be 24?). If they cannot provide evidence or the court does not agree with the evidence provided, the child must immediately be returned.
My friend has worked for barnevernet for many years and the stress of the job has bought her to breaking point where she had to take a very long period of stress leave and still has only returned to work 50%. She says the position she is put it in to decide wether a child is at real danger or not has seriously affected her health so to me this does not sound like a system who takes kids away so easily or just for the pleasure of it. I do think the media as with everything they report blow things out of proportion. You don't hear them praising bernevernet in the cases where a child who was being abused was removed, they only report the bad stories. Of course there are those few cases where the system fails and maybe a child is removed wrongfully but I think if you are a good parent as you say you are you should have nothing at all to worry about.

I agree with your husband that the media exaggerate stories and due to confidentiality barnevernet are not allowed to even defend themselves so the stories are only one sided and could be completely untrue. I know for a fact barnevernet do all sorts of background checks and investigations before they take a child away. In fact keeping the family together is more of a priority than taking one away, a lot of the time barnevernet work with the families to ensure safe environments for the children and if the parents or carers cannot provide this environment that is when they consider removal. But of course the media will not report this..

thank you for sharing this rosieeeT..  at least we get to somehow hear barnevernet's "side of the story" in all this..

yea,  my husband insisted that the news may have been exaggerating about this issue.. it just came to me as alarming because most of the parents in the news are expats... and being an expat parent, it scares me if these news were indeed true.. moving to a different country with a different culture already scares me as it is, so this all the more adds to that effect..

Ignore what RosieeT says, if anything media has been glossing over the reality of what barnevernet does. Every year thousands of children are taken into care in Norway. Immigrant families and families where one parent is Norwegian and the other is an immigrant are particularly targeted. In the latest international scandal, the 5 children of Bodnariu Marian, a Romanian citizen, and Ruth Johanne Bodnariu, a Norwegian citizen, (including a 3 months old baby) were removed for 'religious indoctrination'. The couple are Christians, members of a Pentecostal church. They were previously warned that they need to teach their children that all religions are equally valid (or invalid), rather than teach their children to follow the parents' Christian faith. When they were considered to fail to comply, all their 5 children were removed (on November 16 and 17, 2015). This is just the latest case to reach the news - there are literally thousands of such cases, of children placed into care for trivial or made-up reasons.

woah.! even with grounds of religion?? first they tell parents how to raise their kids, and now even what to believe in?? if this is indeed true, its getting way out of hand..  i dont see any danger in guiding the kid on a religious belief..

is this news available online,  Plymark? i wish to read more about it

Edit:
I found a facebook page about it: Norway Return the children to Bodnariu Family - Facebook.com

Hi, yes, the facebook page is the best way to keep informed about this. It's both in Romanian and English (with a few bits in Norwegian). There are various articles about it on different blogs, but nothing in the media.

yea, i dont think this is in the local news...  its a really sad story...

barnevernet is doing more damage than good to the kids and the family... 2 of the kids were in a separate home from the 2 other kids... and the 5-month old baby was also taken away??!!  for shame, Norway, for shame.!!!  if they just wanted the kids to "be safe away" from the parents, why would the kids be separated from their brothers and sisters??? that i dont see the logic

is the Norwegian news media one-sided? have they even reported anything against the government or any government unit for that matter?

As long as you have a good income, your child is well and there are no rumours going around about you doing some crazy stuff, you will be fine.

People here can easily report a mother or a father to child services. Usually if it is something very serious the only thing they do is do some visitation and do some interview to make sure that you and your daughter are both well. They usually close the case after a couple of visits..
but if you resist this visitation, you are more likely to end up childless.

A lot of people have tried their best to stop barnevernet unlawful actions..
The truth is, if you don't cooperate you will be punish in the most tormented way.. like you know.. taking your child. They like to be treated like a God. your superior, you have to listen to them and nod your head and take their advices if not, as I told u YOU WILL BE PUNISHED
But sometimes they just really enjoy taking away children.
The easiest children from them to take away are those from countries with physical punishment as part of their culture.
but as long as they have nothing on you they can't take away your child. unless you come from a country where physical punishment is a must.
I think they get commission from every child they have ''saved'' I don't know.. they seem to be more active during November, December and June. Christmas bonus and summer bonus.

The only places you need to worry about in order to not get stabbed in the back are...
Health station, Doctors and school. be as friendly to their doctors, teachers as possible with out seeming like a complete nut job
But as long as your child is not a pathological liar you will be fine.

I am a asian single mother living 3 yrs in Norway. With 3 kids.
.. Barnevernet never believe  on parents reason or side either. Had been stabbed also, as I trust the Barnahage, for them that they will take care of my 2 Yr old daughter. Had a very stressful experience and while I'm fixing things before court meeting for my child costudy of my daughter. Suddenly had a call from barnevernet that I need to go to their office and they want to talk to me. I was nervous and did not even know what is happening. Then they explain. That the Barnahage called them and ask what is on my daughter back. They said they found bruises on my daughter back. So even when I tell them. They still believe on what the barhage have told them. That they saw that mark 2 days before they report it.
I was trying to be calm though it affects me that I'm surely they were just stressing my daughter while my other 2 kids are waiting at home.
I was disappointed with this people I trusted. But as I heard some immigrants views that norweigans trust their own color.
Even though I already told them that it's only a birthmark / mongolian spot. That is very usual for  asiatisk or with brown skin.
But still they took my daughter for 3 days that if I have to visit and need others supervision.
I do feel that barnevernet don't have the knowledge much of other culture.
It's really a waste of time. And after that it's been a bad impact for me when they needed to testify also in court. It was a court meeting for my child costudy between my daughter father and me. It is the craziest thing I experienced here in Norway.

I was planning to make a blog of all the experience I had I feel it's not even safe for my kids to live here
My kids complain that why they have to be interview all the time. There is no even freedom here they said. It's not the life they wanted.
My son even had a complain after he told his teacher that his hungry.
But my son really want to be close friend with him bec he still new in the class just asking for a little time to talk to his teacher. Bec he found his teacher cool as him.
Then the teacher send his concerns to barnevernet.
Another investigation on going.

P. S
Immigrant single mother
And yes still don't have work (what do I expected)
Have more than 1 child.
Yes #1targeted  by child social welfare in Norway.
Even though I raised my other 2 kids well and healthy.

More challenge to come.

do you ever communicate with the barnehagen staff over the welfare of your kid?

I suspect that maybe they don't know you very well, thus decided to lodge a report first.

my girl has those marks that you mentioned.  The marks are on her buttocks...they are fading.  She have them since she was a newborn.  I made sure I raise the questions of those marks to the fastlege and helsestajson all the time.  They always tell me it is normal and the marks will fade.

i find it strange that your barnehagen does not know those marks are normal.  Our bhg is in contact with our helsesøster very often because our girl has speech delay.  There is no way they will think the marks on our girl's buttock is due to abuse.

I am pretty confident if the barnehagen suspects any abuse, they will talk to us first.