Your experience of culture shock in Norway

Hi,
My name is Mei and I'm from Japan. My boyfriend is Norwegian and we are planning to get married next year The first time I visited Norway and which is also my first to Scandinavia. It was beautiful and very different from my country of course. The place I stayed is not a city but not so far from Stavanger by a ferry. I love Norway but it's just really hard to make new friends. And the most frustrating is that they do understand English but they don't speak. My boyfriends friends (a couple) came over to our place for a visit. They only greeted me and that was it! It was a really awkward moment because I had to sit dumb the whole time like I didn't even exist. They didn't talk nor ask any questions like 'What's Japan like or blah bla.. It's not very normal for me even though we were strangers. They just talked only to my boyfriend in their own language. And not a word to me. I felt so left out and very awkward. I know we have different culture but this...it never happened to me. For me, it was kinda inappropriate for leaving one person out because that person which is me can't understand/speak Norwegian. It would be really nice if they could at least try a conversation with me but they didn't. It was a bad air for me. That was one of my worst awkward moment.
Sorry for the long post. But I finally had it out of me haha.

Hi meimeii7 !

Nice post , indeed.
For sure, people could be surprised too, by japanese culture, don't you think so ?
I met several citizens coming from your country in europe ( because of martial art practise) , and I was confronted to their "asian reserve" and for example their politness - legendary one ! - waiting for the expression of other people , very quiet and attentive people. Never agressive but comprehensive mind. Always interested by specific cultural practises. Always curious ... and silent observation of their environment. I liked it ... but for sure , for european people it sounds "strange" practice because we are usued to talk a lot - non-stop ! - sometimes you just can't say a word and "enter a talk", you need to cut ( fermly sometimes ! ) the person you are listening to, just to give an opinion. Fast talks is usual, I mean.
The worst in this kind of speed way to talk are the Italian culture ! for sure... but it's a nice singing, and lively way to talk ! need some practise before success in adapting yourself to their culture.

And to come back to your "spleen" ...for sure norway may appear as a "non-expressing" way of ... talking. But ...it's their way of living - nevertheless they are quite active people. They take their time , think, and have a few words - Thinking and dreaming, way of existing , their way of life - look at their movies ( famous one I mean) and the role delivered to long silents between two sentences. It may give some "blue feelings" to an Italian, for sure ! especially if he is from south Italia as Napolitan for ex. ! - I saw a norvegian serial on T.v recently with an actor who was a turkish guy and it was funny to compare his way of acting with the normenner around. What a difference, it made !  They seemed to always "dis-oriented" and pushed / puzzled by his way of very fast talkings and movings, and always in rush as if there was some emergency. This is funny to compare cultures and cultural habbits - sometimes you can't adapt yourself to this way of living - on both sides ! because scandinavian don't like to be "pushed" all day long : they are preserving their "serenity" - sometimes people end by loving this way of quiet life.

Meimeii7

This is how it goes in Norway, you have to get used to it,

so build your own small social network and you will be fine, but do not expect much outside that circle : )

Best regards

Meimeii7 ...

May I add something ? as a foreigner you'll always stay as ...a foreigner ! - wherever you go on earth you won't be able to become a "native" , never ( second generation, maybe, well probably ! depends on which country and integration system it has) - you can accept it ( and manage it on the best way for you and your friends around) or deny this reality, this fact.

Your motherland is the only place you'll feel comfortable because you never thought (and think eveyday) about language barrier and specific cultural habbits because you were born and bathed in this environment. In my opinion you can't reasonably expect  to change anything basically with this reality.
(Plz excuse my bad english. I apologise and I am ashame !)

BUT ! there's a "duty" ,( not only... "something you "could try", but a real must"... they were used to say in my familian cercle where it was "normal" to speak in several languages and consequently to adopt the "manners" of each cultural environment when talking in french, or german, or english or etc...) -

Yes, there's a duty... I was told very early when  I was a kid :
YOU are in charge of talking , asking , listening and learning the language and cultural environment you are living in. The natives are NOT.
The best you can expect is a friendly consideration to your difficulties to "integrate" THEIR culture.
And help from those people. Don't hesitate to ask...
If you stay in a shy way of acting you' ll really have problems and feel bad. Better make mistakes and be ridiculous sometimes. It's a good way,- maybe the only one -  to learn quickly ! you'll forget all your mistakes but you'll be in progress faster, for sure. And as you know it : making people laugh is the best way to break barriers ! - Everywhere ... clowns have no motherland except the whole humanity !
in a word : make them react whatever the subject is, and however you"ll do it. Just push people ... well a little bit , in scandinavia, I mean. not too hard or too far away. Just try...and see, try and see, again.

In my suburb, I was dropped in when I was a kid nobody seem to act as I was acting myself and it took years of hard learning to adapt myself to ... (long list !) italians ( but themselves from several regions of Italy totally different !) , spanish people, "pieds noirs" = "black-feets" ( french people coming back from algeria after the independance) arabs ( from several ancient french colonies recently liberated) , portugese ,yougoslavians, poles, russians, turcks, africans, middeleast people ( several countries, lebaneses  egyptians, etc) ....etc and all this "Noah Arch" of people bathing in the same narrow area, a big colored, loudly and lively crowd  (inhabitant density was high)... do you imagine it ? I was living in "Babylone" everyday in those streets !
But they used to gather by nationality and I was alone , as a french native I mean !
I was the only one. So, I had to adpat myself - no other choice ! - to these very new environment. To go to their homes and live the way they were living, Even if, I stayed very often totally stocken, puzzled, by their behaviours. I did it and it was a very worthy experience that lead me to some kind of nice opened way to live. Same experience had my son. And he's proud of it : don't talk to him about living in a "select district" with just one "community" ; he loves diversity of behaviours and is making adaptation to each one he is in presence of. As some kind of "cameleon", you see ? He knows the code of eeach one.

Hard job for me,  for sure ... you can trust me ! (getting out german + anglo-saxon settled in france with "good manners" in a world which seemed to me totally incomprehensive world : I loose my references and guide marks). All of them were very simple people , migrants coming out of what we call in france "the Bled" that means "countryside" of their own countries. Most of the parents didn't speak french their life long, and some didn't even know how to write. But their children had to learn french manners and habbits if they wished to integrate french scale - and they did it - lucky guys and ....lucky days ! - ( since 3 decades the integration ladder is broken I guess, unfortunately).

Well; yes you need to suggest talks, diners, outgoings, again and again - Don't give up : it will happen you just need to be stubborn - and act in order to provoc your own integration in accordance with the country you choose to live in. And it's a kind of game in fact, I guess... a chess game ..;  you push a piece , see what's happening and go on with other pieces; and correct yourself at every step, on this long "party of your life" ! - It might be a funny, pleasant and long term "comedia dell arte" !  everyday you play a scene, a chapter and it will run, for sure in a nice journey. even if sometimes clouds are crossing your path. Don't give up and enjoy life wherever you are even with "so-so weather" !

Take it as a nice challenge That's all !      Good luck.

hi meimei. i am so sorry to hear about your  experience... i am from the Philippines and i too had experienced some social gatherings where i sit bored as hell.. haha..  but yea,  i just kept sitting still as my way of not ruining the fun they are having.. coz the moment they saw me looking bored,  then they have to change topics and start speaking English so i can join in.. altho this only happened after a couple of visits there and usually with a social gathering with older people... the first time i was there in Norway,  i was actually talking non-stop at parties,  people asking me about my country, and my culture, my trip, how i find norway,  etc.. so yea, these next visits,  they can only ask so much that dull moments around me are inevitable.. altho i would say i only experience sitting quiet around older group or when they are engaged in conversations about people/topics i dont know.. my husband's best friends, are around the same age as me and are tech savvy coz they like playing computer games, so they can and are comfortable in speaking in english.. and we usually have topics we can talk about (like clash of clans,  lol.!)... younger people in the family also dont have problems engaging a conversation with me in english... and i wasnt the first foreigner in the family (they already welcomed a spanish, a chinese and a russian in their lives) so maybe they alrdy know the drill..  maybe i had it better,  and was lucky... so i never actually felt left out around them.. altho i noticed that some people my age (im in my early 30s) in a different circle and also older people, can understand english,  but are often shy to speaking english or they refused to talk in english or they just dont know how to,  and are more comfortable in speaking their native language.. my husband's acquaintances we bump into at stores also dont engage in conversations with me, so i just stand there quiet while they chit-chat away... i still find it rude sometimes how some people refuse to talk to me.. they probably have their own reasons, maybe some are just really xenophobes, but i just think of it as that they are scared to be misunderstood when they try to speak english if they know they are bad at it...

one notable experience for me in Norway that was a bit of a culture shock is when i had the door slammed in my face in a public place...    haha..  in our filipino culture, strangers or not, we held doors open for ladies,  pregnant women or old people.. we give them seats in public transport.. so yea,  i wasnt used to that and had to learn the painful way,  literally.!  lol.. Norwegian guys may not be the most gentleman people i know,  but at least they help out with chores like doing the dishes, cleaning the house or laundry, because they are very independent people... from my country, men feel emasculated if they have to do "women chores" aka household chores.. so this is something i really appreciate my husband for (coz who likes to do house chores, right??).. lol..

btw,  i dont think i am alone in that face-slamming-door incident.. i had also read it in a blog, Dating a Norwegian - A frog in the fjord blog... that blog actually opened my eyes to a lot of unusual (for me) Norwegian cultures, and made me feel that i am not alone in those feelings, lol.!

just to add, maybe u can ask ur boyfriend to translate the conversation for u especially on topics he know u can join in?

my husband had actually experienced that when he visited me in the Philippines (back then he was still my boyfriend), around my friends, especially when we make fun of each other, making jokes or just random chit-chat.. i didnt actually find the need to translate to him coz (1) filipino humor/jokes usually arent that funny when translated, (2) he usually won't get it,  or (3) hard to translate.. i didnt know that he actually felt left-out then, and i felt bad about it.. so he asked me that in situations like that, if i can translate conversations, regardless if he wont get it or find it funny,  just so he wouldnt feel left out..

so maybe u should bring this up to him,  and maybe ask him to translate for u so u can keep up to the conversation and engage on it if u can..

In my country, it is considered rude if you have someone in your group that does not speak your local language and the rest of the people start talking in local language.  We just don't do that in Singapore.  If everyone of us know english, to make the person who don't understand our local language at ease, we will all speak english so that the person will not feel left out.

In Norway, this is not the case.  the locals does not seem to care.  They know that you don't speak their language but they still continue to converse in Norsk in your face........as if they enjoy seeing you getting bored with all the chatting around you.  This is the big culture shock for me.

Fornight -

you're perfectly right about the first point of your post.
just normal and simple rules of socializing "correctly" - I mean in a polite way.
usual "correction" , respect of people around.
Not allways easy to translate everything, nevertheless.
often it breaks lively rythm of talks...
but for sure it should not lead to "exclusion"... I mean volontary one.
that's the real point in fact : it's done with "bad intentions" to set a foreigner apart.
if not, see under...

second point : I don't think they don't care in fact.
Don't forget too as a foreigner you need to  learn their language.
Faster you'll do it , better it will be for you and your normenner friends.
This is also the "reverse side" of elementary politness... which is on your back ! Not on their !
And I 'll add , as you know it learning a language needs long "listenings" first, to catch correct accent, words and expressions, before beginning , expecting to take part in talks yourself.

Tell me ; how can you expect to participate chats, and integrate seriously a country if / when you 're asking  people around you to speak in English because you don't speak their motherlanguage ? always , i mean.
For them too, english is a foreign language ; don't you think so ?
Why should they talk a foreign language because of a single person , a foreigner, is here ?

I know , of course there's a long period during which, as a  foreigner, you are puzzled, lost, and feel "alone" in a jungle. Isn't that the price to be paid to settle somewhere ? I mean everybody who intend to live abroad must catch  there will have a period of "non- communication" at all , almost. Or, at least bad, simple one.
The challenge is to overcross these roadblocks and in a way to integrate the country. Full point.

I remember a woman who ask me in a bus ( in sweden) how could she reach a square. I knew where it was  ; close to my workshop place. and I apologised first for my "bad swedish practice" ( because I didn't learn it at all, with books and hearings I mean) but I tried to speak ... swedish I never learned.
What I knew was just what I caught listening to other guys around me during a month only  ( and my little knowledges in Bokmal) - and finally I asked her - in english - to ask the young woman beside her for better explanation than mine ( a north-african , from marocco, she said after) -
The swedish did it and I went on reading my newspaper. Then, she turned back to me, bent to me and slowly said to me with a nice charming voice " why did you say, you don't talk swedish ? your accent is quite good... and you understood my question in swedish and I understood you , too. You know there are a lot of foreigners here who settled a long time ago and never learned the language ! So... just go  on you're on the right road." -
I was really surprised because in my mind, I was not able to speak and it was the first time somebody "trapped" me and "forced" me to have a try - and I didn't plan to live in sweden and consequently I thought I won't "learn" really swedish - But the fact was that I spent a lot of times among swedish who didn't pay attention to me during one month but I listened to all their talks. It was a hard period , feeling alone among "foreigners" ( those swedish people ! for me ...) but this bath even I didn't realise it served me to understand sometimes correctly little talks at least. I never took part to their discussions, but just standing and listening , slowly without any book (which is my usual way "to learn") I caught one thing and then another and then finally I was able to catch current talks.
What was funny after is, that those guys thought I didn't catch a word and after they realised ... in fact that I could ! - Funny moment when it happened because they asked : " DO you understand what we are talking about ?" - then they were puzzled and became more carefull in front of me when they talked. especially on "sensible talks'" such as "those fuckin' immigrants, it"s a real mess, they never make any effort, they take profit on our back and blah-blah-blah ..." - Zip out , guys !!! it's finish ... now you 'll hear my version and won't be pleased for sure cause "who are you ? better than me ? are you sure ? and why ? let's have talks now, about it ; but be carefull o.k I'm not a donkey , caught it ? ... etc"
i was experimenting what arab minorities in my country suffered for years when they didn't catch a word and got no respect at all from french citizens - not always, fortunately ! but often. too often ... and I was very angry against people practising this silly "segregation"

It was without any revenge mind but "atmosphere", mood changed a lot , next weeks and it was fine.
Even if in fact there were a lot of talks I couldn't still follow correctly, of course . You can't expect to be fluent in a few weeks, for sure. I'm not good enough to do such cultural achievement, prouesse.

Finally I thank this woman ( the swedish one in the bus) and the marocan one had a talk with me in french , very nice one - It make me feel less, less alone suddenly in this surrounding, for sure. Big encouragement to improve and go on my hard job of understanding ... swedish.
Even I knew I won't stay in this country for other reasons.

These little stories just to explain : enjoy being abroad, listen, learn and let's have patient tries and tries again til it will come - We all know, and made the experience of this strange period of "silent" as if we were deaf and dumb ( as a donkey, well better say a kid among mature adults, not to hurt anyone !) , lonelyness - but if you can't handle , manage this hard period as " an ignorant foreigner" ... well, better leave the country and come back home ! - easier life ... on this point of "cultural shock" ....at least !

I've experienced almost exactly the same kind of separation/exclusion as others here.  I was at my girlfriends parents' house for Christmas once, before I could speak much Norwegian at all, and all day they were talking Norwegian and I felt completely left out.  The thing that makes it worse is when they actually try to include you, turning around to face you directly after having a conversation and saying like, "Oh we were just speaking about X, what is that like in England".  Then right after you answer the question they start speaking in Norwegian again as if they are finished with you.  It's like, what, they are trying to include you?  For brief moments then setting you in the corner again? Quite despicable really.

I also experienced the same in Work.  After I had learnt some Norwegian I got a job and almost every day we would eat lunch around a big table.  All conversation was exclusively in Norwegian, even though they knew I couldn't speak much Norwegian.  Again the moments of Oh lets speak English to him for a minute then ignore him again happened frequently then back to Norwegian.  Damn right that feels like being excluded.

That's probably the biggest culture shock for me.  Language barrier is not something that really needs to be considered.

Even now, I am essentially fully fluent in Norwegian, spoken Norwegian for 4 years every day in Work, on the phone etc, I still feel left out because I wont get the pun in a joke, or miss a key word in a sentence that ruins the whole context.  Seems like no matter how good I am I just wont ever quite fit

Totally agree but some people are educated and polite if this happens to me I just leave the place I can find friends who are polite ! And I habe alot of norwegian friends but they are educated , but im shocked her boyfriend is totally ignorant to how she feels and he really isnt being kind to her

You were right Gary except on the fact - after what you said about your exp in norway  in familial circle and at job - but de facto, language barrier is the basic pb : people just don't know how to manage it - sometimes as you mentioned it they are "trying" a ...bad try ! in fact. But how could they do it ? - at the end of your post your perfectly right in coming to the fact you 'll always be a foreigner except in your own country.

I didn't said it before but I thought about that point : even as a native everybody knows he might be puzzled , when confronted to some people of a very différent social class as he is extracted of ! - Go on countryside and then suddenly in an urbanistic place , upper class environment you feel "alone" too just because of vocabularly, uses and habbits, politness, ways of talking, or just listening, moving , all sample attitudes etc ... which might be totally différent. Some may feel really as if they moved suddenly, in another country. They have no marksleft  with this new context.

Sandra , for sure most of scandinavians are well educated, sometimes a little bit rude. and with specific behaviours - but the example of your friend who has a norvegian boy-friend who does not care of her feelings ... you're right : just drop that kind of "donkey" or at least make him fermly and quickly understand he'll had to improve his social relations and couple living one too.
I thought "living with someone" was based on a kind of contract they shoud discuss on - especially through young generations... how can they expect to build a sane, secure relation of couple ? I can't just imagine this. Well I read looong time ago ....NLP "masters" ( Virginai Satir and Gr. Bateson etc). that 's probably I can(t understand.

Foster-Ehlé J-Ch wrote:

Foster-Ehlé J-Ch wrote:

You were right Gary except on the fact - after what you said about your exp in norway  in familial circle and at job - but de facto, language barrier is the basic pb : people just don't know how to manage it - sometimes as you mentioned it they are "trying" a ...bad try ! in fact. But how could they do it ? - at the end of your post your perfectly right in coming to the fact you 'll always be a foreigner except in your own country. So it's really a barrier comin' from language.

I didn't said it before but I thought about that point : even as a native everybody knows he might be puzzled , when confronted to some people of a very différent social class as he is extracted of ! - Go on countryside and then suddenly in an urbanistic place , upper class environment you feel "alone" too just because of vocabularly, uses and habbits, politness, ways of talking, or just listening, moving , all sample attitudes etc ... which might be totally différent. Some may feel really as if they moved suddenly, in another country. They have no marks left  with this new context. And you can feel alone as if you were a foreigner.

Sandra , for sure most of scandinavians are well educated, sometimes a little bit rude. and with specific behaviours - but the example of your friend who has a norvegian boy-friend who does not care of her feelings ... you're right : just drop that kind of "donkey" or at least make him fermly and quickly understand he'll had to improve his social relations and couple living one too.
I thought "living with someone" was based on a kind of contract they shoud discuss on - especially through young generations... how can they expect to build a sane, secure relation of couple ? I can't just imagine this. Well I read looong time ago ....NLP "masters" ( Virginai Satir and Gr. Bateson etc). that 's probably why  I can't understand.

- Construction of ourself is a long trip ! for sure...

I've been here for 2,5 years. I knew that the language is a major problem for foreigners living in Norway so I decided to take the norwegian courses right away after I moved here.  And luckily, I passed "Bergenstesten" after 1 year in Norway which I was really proud and thought this could help me getting a lot of Norwegian friends in the future.

Now I'm going to a college here in Oslo and studying in a norwegian program.

Now it's my turn to share my experience with you guys. I speak Norwegian on a daily basis but still. Speaking Norwegian is not everything you need to do. There are plenty of things you have to learn here, for instance, culture, history, mentality etc. which are the things that I have not learnt much from the Norwegian courses. Well, not that much that I can easily get their jokes and stuff. For me, language is just a tool for communication but without knowing their culture and stuff, you will still feel left out.

If you walk down the street in town, you will see that many immigrants have their own group.  Eventhough some of them moved here many years ago and speak good Norwegian. Some were even born here. Norwegians do not have problems talking with them and such but I have not seen many Norwegians hanging out with immigrants, inviting them home and eat dinner together.

So what I've been trying to say is that language is not the only reason why you are left out.

Hum ... perfect sumarise of previous talks indeed , Witchudachaisong 1986 !

Especially when you noted that language isn't the only roadblock you'll have to face with !

For sure, you need to learn much on the culture of the country you expect to settle in.
And ...on a wide screen. Large topics, I mean. You mentioned them...

Personaly, I used to "train" before any trip even if it was only for a few weeks , somewhere.
Language was basic  knowledge (of course) but cultural environment was - in my mind - the best pass to enter in relation with people abroad. it shows how much you really are uinterested with people you are newly in relation with - I mean not only "picking their money, and comfortable level of life" ! If you see what I mean...
I saw so many people travelling without any knowledges on this point I just couldn't understand the use of their travel / journey.
I remember my son coming back (very proud ) with pictures of sixtine chapel in Roma ... who didn't know a word about Italy, art, history  context of religious early times there, etc... and I said to him : ' better stay at home next time, and just have a  look at good t.v documentaries on same topic, kid !"- My opinion about just "travels" - but it's worste when people are expecting to ... settle and live somewhere.
In my mind you need really to learn wide and deeply their culture. Sometimes better than they know themselves and share it , show them during discussions and ordinary talks. It forces respect, in fact on long term , at least ...!

Last point of your post is related to so-called " nordic - freeze or distant or reserve" of scandinavian spirit. It's a specific act / deed of Nordic character ; they are set on a "clanic mentality history" which lasted until very recent history - you can't expect them to erase what was they way of acting in social life for centuries, just in a few years. Same kind of problem had other countries in europe; Some took hard measures to erase any difference and got some success in melting every cultural backgrounds in a "republican way of living" - but no more.

Even now, in theses countries is rising up a model of "communitarism" which is right on the opposite of a "nationwide citizenship" precisely at the same time we can see "triumph of globalization" worldwide.
Isn't it funny to see that contradiction nowadays all over ?

Foster-Ehlé J-Ch wrote:

Hum ... perfect sumarise of previous talks indeed , Witchudachaisong 1986 !

Especially when you noted that language isn't the only roadblock you'll have to face with !

For sure, you need to learn much on the culture of the country you expect to settle in.
And ...on a wide screen. Large topics, I mean. You mentioned them...

Personaly, I used to "train" before any trip even if it was only for a few weeks , somewhere.
Language was basic  knowledge (of course) but cultural environment was - in my mind - the best pass to enter in relation with people abroad. it shows how much you really are interested with people you are newly in relation with - I mean not only "picking their money, and comfortable level of life" ! If you see what I mean...
I saw so many people travelling without any knowledges on this point I just couldn't understand the use and purpose of their travel / journey. Taking pictures of monuments and landscapes all day long ? just buy post-cards - this narcissic way of acting is close to magical practise of old times related to "eternity wishes" of human beings.
I remember my son coming back (very proud ) with pictures of sixtine chapel in Roma ... who didn't know a word about Italy, art, history  context of religious early times there, etc... and I said to him : ' better stay at home next time, and just have a  look at good t.v documentaries on same topic, kid !"- My opinion about just "travels" - but it's worste when people are expecting to ... settle and live somewhere.
In my mind you need really to learn wide and deeply their culture. If you stay superficial it won't run for sure ! - Sometimes better than they know themselves and share it , show them during discussions and ordinary talks. It forces respect, in fact on long term , at least ...!

Last point of your post is related to so-called " nordic - freeze or distant or reserve" of scandinavian spirit. It's a specific act / deed of Nordic character ; they are set on a "clanic mentality history" which lasted until very recent history - you can't expect them to erase what was they way of acting in social life for centuries, just in a few years. Same kind of problem had other countries in europe; Some took hard measures ( and bloody one !) to erase any difference and got some success in melting every cultural backgrounds in a "republican way of living" - but no more.

Even now, in theses countries is rising up a model of "communitarism" which is right on the opposite of a "nationwide citizenship" precisely at the same time we can see "triumph of globalization" worldwide.
Isn't it funny to see that contradiction nowadays all over ?

For sure, to settle somewher you must show a strong determination and be stubborn, probably have to enforce / push yourself - maybe against your own personality - more than you are used to, ordinary times. then, you will encourage people to open their doors, maybe.

Hi,

I have very little culture shock in Norway.  I coming from Finland, which is also a Nordic coutry.
My huspend is norwish, and there was many huspend relatives near us.
My family have had a good relationship with other Norwish people.
We were living at the Oslo area, and we have all kind of aktivities in Norway.

My childrens have been taking part to many summercamps like sea aktivitis with boats.

Best regards,

Anne