I feel so sad and confused Please help

Every one has given her advice she knows what to do if she wants.   So let's get another topic.   This is a dead horse now.      Move on

this Subject is very complex even between local, are you already in Egypt or not , you have to remember good times.
Atef

I read the whole thread and i wondered how it comes that on such a complex topic,
nobody is able to write a full post on this simple matter : "Proceedings - Marriage in Egypt"

(I know my country laws on that subject but it's of no use here ...)

I mean isn't there some guy who could explain clearly the general frame of it ?
Somebody who could be comptetent enough to write a structured post to give the general frame of it.

Competencies I am talking about is "juridisditional one" from a local lawyer, egyptian or from outside egypt, but curently involved in such matrimonial affairs.

Is it so difficult to find a good advicer - OUT OF PASSION ! -
            as I read some sad posts ! relevant to some racist sad background even we all know real cultural
            practice in some countries around the world, for sure ! - but no reason to get exciting, for sure.
- a cold-minded guy who, could write something on that topic -
everyone knows in some countries it's often a mess at the end.

On such problems.could be usefull ... and on some others to avoid people to get trapped.

Anyway, I've just bee puzzled / stoken that this woman could ignore and never heard anything before about those kind of practice -

Where did she lived before ? ...on the moon ? in the world of "bizounours" ? ( = expression to say childy world , puerile one, as in cartoons for very young kids). Or a world of Irenists , people who are always looking world as a "wonderfull world" as sydney Bechet sung it , so ...nicely with his trumpet !!! Master piece....

Foster Ehle J Ch

I think there are a lot of people who don't know the proceedings involved in getting married in Egypt. I myself had never heard of Orfi marriage until AFTER I had married my husband. You fall in love with a man enough to agree to marry him and so you trust that man to do the right thing. Anyone who says you should not trust a man in this matter is obviously not the person in love with the said man. When you fall in love with someone you trust them and it's only after when things fall apart that you realise you have made a mistake. So it's not fair to ask if this lady came from another planet and thst she should have known about these things. You only have to look at all the posts on this forum to see many people do not know the procedure for getting married in Egypt. As I said before I did not know the procedure and found it all so confusing at the time but I met a man who was genuine and good so my marriage turned out fine. This lady did nothing wrong apart from fall in love and she needs help and advice, I do agree with your comments regarding someone in a suitable position, Lawyer for example,  taking the time to give advice as that would be a big help.

Thanks for reply Mydream ...

I did it - I mean reading a lot of forums on expat-blog in egypt ( el cairo only - they are numerous !)

I am actually waving on several destinations in mid-east after 2 months as a nexbee on Norway forum. Just by curiosity - trying to feel a few points about "how is the mood, overthere ?" - I can tell you quite different compared to nordic forums. Even if sometimes you can hear same kind of stories debated all day long by some expats. But it's a minority, I guess.

To come back to your post - first I am glad for you your couple is running allright. In my mind no problem about the fact you can find perfectly nice people in Egypt as in any other country worldwide. ( I just know this culture by my mother who spent 12 years there until the independance war in 1956.just before I was born) - But, i know, because I am not a naïve person, there are ...let's say...."big cultural trends" in those countries of mid-east and north-africa or africa ... AS THERE ARE TOO in other countries as ours, western countries.
They call it "cultural shock" - I mean I thought everybody knows that if you go in this country or that one , things will run differently. In mid-east , especially topics such as relation between a man and a woman. and ... laws aren't based fondamentaly on the same kind of cultural and historical background. Construction of their "laws and rules" are totally different. I thought "how could somebody be so "out of theirmind", a kind of "inconscience" and do things before thinking. just taking advice BEFORE acting in such a serious matter as marriage ? - how could it happen ?
You marry a man - that means a serious process wherever you live on earth ! - JUST because you're in love ? SO SIMPLE ???? - Jeeeeez , that 's why I never married myself probably ! - sounds like the fascinating tale of "Aladin with his magical lamp" , or "1001 nights tales" "sherazade" etc...- Nice stories but .. a little bit short, I guess.

second and last / short point of view : for sure I can make this sad constatation as a fact : most of people just ignore their life long the "invisible" legal frame they are living in. For sure ... but this is gap of knowledge which can lead to very bad situation... that 's why better get info on it . Just normal and usual precautionous info you're supposed to get before acting whatever you expect to do in your life - Could you imagine talking a car without insurance and driving licence ? - same way of acting in my mind..
But again marriage is something serious - That's why I couldn't catch it - And by the way : on forums you have dozens of forums explaining little by little the frame of proceeding with marriage. It was interesting for me read them : I am a jurist in my country and I spent time in townhalls and even us embassy and had tio leran this matter of civil rules. But I never bent on arabic / muslim habbits even if I heard about it because of my education in suburbs where they were numerous arabs.

Well last thing : as an english woman and so english educated I suppose you are aware of importance of writings and especially of legal writings - I am sure of that ! I worked enough with english and anglo-saxons, to know haw they are used to practise usually...

So, I stay on my strange feelings ... even if I can understand your explanation. What I disagree with was the kind of "hysteria" that grew up post after post on this thread.
Sorry if i was a little bit abrupt , with rough manners - but I saw too many "bad cases" like this one in my life and then they got real problem and needed to escape and ask for a shelter because of a childy mind that I can't understand from a mature person. Maybe I ma a little bit severe... I agree.
That's all !

Marriage is even more serious than moving to another country. And if people spend many many hours researching, planning and preparing for their move abroad, I don't see why they don't do the same, and even more, when getting married in a foreign country. There really is no excuse at all for being ignorant about the marriage procedures/marriage laws in a country you wish to get married in, to the point that you sign a life-changing contract based on what someone else is telling you about it. There is no excuse for signing something that you don't fully understand. Being in 'love' might be a reasonable excuse for a teen, not a mature adult who should know better. As the saying goes, if you fail to prepare, prepare to fail. This is precisely what happened here. She didn't do her homework, let her heart lead her, and thus ended up in this problem.

janka_75 wrote:

Yes, but a thanks and a nod to "it's all sorted" would be fine too. Again pointing to my opinion above. Free flowing communication, is what expats learn a lot from. Totally off topic here, but not entirely irrelevant.

That's alright !! our replies will help others (who google for answers) in the future

XB23
You have obviously never been in love.. when you fall in love with someone to the point of wanting to get married you trust that person ...if you don't trust them then hopefully you would never have agreed to marry them. No amount of research can guarantee a marriage will work out so that is no help at all to this lady who finds herself in this situation.

It is possible for this lady to sort out her situation and it's not as if she is in a situation in which there is no way out. It does not matter where you marry there is always a solution should a problem occur.

You meet someone, fall in love enough to want to spend the rest of your life with someone the last thing you think about is "what do I do if I want a divorce in the future" if that's what you think you should not be getting married in the first place so your "advice" XB23 is totally useless.

You should be sticking to the point of this topic and be helping the lady not telling her what, in your opinion, she should have done.

Utter drivel. It's about researching and knowing what you are bloody getting yourself into, rather than whether the marriage will work out or not. That's a different matter all together, which I'm not even talking about. The problem here is she didn't even know what she was signing. Marriage is a life-time commitment, and if you don't understand what you're putting your signature on, and have to resort to someone else telling you what it is about, because you're so in 'love' with them that you trust & do whatever they say, then the consequences can potentially be severe, and you have yourself to blame. She admitted she did this out of character, so no, being in "love" is no excuse for any adult to sign something they don't fully comprehend, especially something as serious as a marriage contract.

Firstly XB23 there is no cause for bad language I do not appreciate being sworn at. Also I would like to point out that from what I can gather from your previous posts on other threads you yourself have been in a very similar situation to this lady.

It seems to me you are bitter about what happened to yourself and so take it out on other people. Like I said previously the whole point of this thread was to help this lady not to tell her she behaved irresponsibly.
I do not wish you to respond to my posts again as I do not appreciate being sworn at!!!!

Mydream : I don't see why you said XB23  sworn at you. Really !
I had a look on his / her profile and read his/her previous posts... that sounds perfectly "smart and clever" answers. Good advices, as far as I read them.

But maybe he/she made you face some of very common and banal ways of acting in life which are the basement of so many troubles that often occured to ... so many people. Religious commitment as a strong background, I mean.
You included. No offence intended ! - stay cool... we're just discussing on "Love affairs".
and well... marriage, too.

May I quote / hold one of my favourite poet ( René Char) ? ...if you allow me to do so :

About love ... what is love ?                 (I'd try a translation between french and english)
         " No capitulation, neither servitude      (or, slavery)      " Ni capitulation, ni servitude
          guerilla without reproach"                                          guérilla sans reproche"

And maybe just have a try to read Virginia Satir ("pope" of NLP) talking about what is a couple, what should be a couple to-day. It may help. All should be based on a contractual way of living ALL life-long with re-negociations if necessary;  and, discussed deeply between two mature persons.
And THIS is the true basement of a normal and mature "love affair" - my opinion.

Marriage is an "institution" - a social one, I mean with particuliar purposes we should think about "stable relation" what does it serve ? who ? which conditions ? - Lot of divorces for sure. so better think before submit to such social rules...

But yes the topic was on "how can we help ?" - there were answers for this above - mine will be "get off this mess and hide yourself for a while if you don't want to be under pressure". Then if she intend again to marry ... beware first, and study consequences and frame of this particular social contract with all extends. Then you'll get a chance to find a partner with whom you'll be able to BUILD a nice life. IF he is able and "in mood" to agree a franck , equal discussion all life long on a contractual base. This not at all in contradiction - the opposite in fact in my mind : the base of freedom and peacefull relation - with love affairs. This doesn't mean of course you won't get troubles / puzzles sometimes.

Human relation mystery. see above R.Char ....

Think about this "tag" extract from Paul Valery ( french poet beginning XX°c.)
                "une idée juste m'a égarée.                  " a fair idea fooled me
                 une vérité m'a perdue"                          a truth lost me"

For XB23 : consedering your profile ... may I send an extract of René Char again -
I hope you'll appreciate this "tag" , both in french (I supposed you are able to understand)
and my "try in translation" in english :

"la vérité est personnelle - prenez garde.      -   "Truth is personal matter - beware.
Tous ne sont pas dignes de la confidence"    -    Everyone isn't worthy for this confidence"   

Hope it gonna help... who knows ?

Hi Foster Ehle JCH,

You do not understand English very well so I understand how you can say you cannot find a swear word in XB23 reply to me but I can assure you there was. As for quoting poetry  to me what is that supposed to prove?

I am merely pointing out that if you are supposed to be in love with someone enough to dedicate your life to them suspicion does not enter into the relationship.....not if it's a normal relationship anyhow.
I have only good experiences of marriage to an Egyptian man as do a number of my friends and we were all in the same position when we married of not COMPLETELY understanding the whole legal side of things. All my friends are also still happily married except for one.So in my experience these marriages on the whole are successful.
Also I would like to point out that the lady who initially started this thread knew exactly what she was signing the thing she wanted clarifying was the visa situation and some advice regarding a divorce......enough said!

its so sad bless

If you didnot chng ur name and ur passpart.u still egyptian dnt be sad come back  home