Surinder Singh on Schengen

you cannot use the surinder singh route to enter malta - only the uk
as you and your wife are entering outside the eu to malta she will need the correct visa to enter malta
this is the long term visa - (the reason for this your rights to live and work in europe are only extended if you travel from one european country to another )

the austrian emabassy are right in this case 

so you will need to apply for the correct visa to enter malta  for residency this would be the long term visa - the category d visa

Yes, Surinder Singh is for the UK and this was my original intention.

I'm assuming though, that I'd be eligible to apply for residency straight away and I'll be applying using the self-sufficiency method. Once I'm a Maltese resident, wouldn't my wife then be entitled to apply for it too as the spouse of an EU resident (not just citizen) and if so, could this be done regardless of what visa she actually entered on?

Geebee1978 wrote:

Yes, Surinder Singh is for the UK and this was my original intention.

I'm assuming though, that I'd be eligible to apply for residency straight away and I'll be applying using the self-sufficiency method. Once I'm a Maltese resident, wouldn't my wife then be entitled to apply for it too as the spouse of an EU resident (not just citizen) and if so, could this be done regardless of what visa she actually entered on?

you are entitled to apply for self-sufficiency thats correct and your wife will be entitled to join you as a family member but she still needs the correct visa to enter Malta


if you were coming from another eu country then there would be no issue but because your not coming from the eu your wife will require the correct to enter malta

as you will see a C category visa is only valid for one country and usually one trip or multiple trips to a maximum of 90 days in a 6 month period
this is why a category c visa for czech will not entitle travel to malta

“C” category stands for a Short-term visa which allows its holder to reside in a Schengen Country for a certain period of time depending on the visa validity. This particular category, according to the holder's purpose of the travel can be obtained in a form of:

    Single-entry visa allows its holder to enter a Schengen country only once for the certain period of time. Once you leave the certain Schengen country you entered the visa validity expires even if the time period allowed to stay in the country is not over yet.
    Double-entry visa applies for the same policy as above mentioned however you are allowed to enter the Schengen country twice meaning that for the certain period of time permitted by your visa you can enter the Schengen country, leave and enter again without any problems. Once you are out of the country for the second time the visa expires.
    Multiple-entry visa allows its holder to go in and out of the Schengen country as pleased. However this visa allows its holder to stay in a Schengen Zone for maximum 90 days within half the year, starting from the day one crosses the border between a Schengen member country and the non-Schengen member country.

Thanks for your time and the quick reply. Appreciated.

This may be a little easier than the Austrians are making it sound.

Basically, she can apply for residency on the back of my residency - that I understand. I also appreciate that she'd need a visa to enter Malta and in fact, many airlines won't even put her on the flight without one.

However, what reason could that not be done on Schengen (C) short? Comes as a tourist, I apply for residency while I'm there, she applies on the back of mine?

I obviously want to do this by the book but I'm failing to see the Austrian's logic of what difference it makes if she's on Schengen C or D. Once she's legally in and satisfied border officials, why can't we then go and apply for residency?

i get what your saying i really do , however i am not going to tell you that its possible to do it that way because should you face any problems - it comes back on me .

you have been provided with information on here and from the Austrian embassy -who in your country deal with applications to Malta .

what you choose to do with this information is entirely up to you


anyway all the best

I've been told by most embassies that the freedom on the Schengen visa isn't a problem. If I add more than one country to the application (they ask for first point of entry and destination as well as an itinerary if you have a few countries planned), they will simply issue the visa as a multiple entry.

"i get what your saying i really do , however i am not going to tell you that its possible to do it that way because should you face any problems - it comes back on me ."

Haha, nothing comes back on anybody but myself. Ultimately, this is a decision me and the wife must take. Just trying to get a feel of others' experience.

Maybe I'll just play the game with the Austrians....after all, I'm doing nothing illegal.

Thanks for your time.

Geebee1978 wrote:

I've been told by most embassies that the freedom on the Schengen visa isn't a problem. If I add more than one country to the application (they ask for first point of entry and destination as well as an itinerary if you have a few countries planned), they will simply issue the visa as a multiple entry.

thats possibly true but the visa is still only valid for 90 days in 6 month period so its really just for travelling

i will say this that it seems to be in malta what works for one doesnt neccsarily work for another  you have to just take a leap of faith and hope for the best

i would recommended the long term visa as it is likely to take more than 90 days to get a residence permit - however in terms of once your in malta she is entitled to the same rights as you so  as i say do with the information what you will

and please come back and tell us your experiences etc - its always interesting to find out what happens

From experience (malta experience) choose an embassy you're comfortable with ... Not the Austrians; they're a waste of time and racist it seems. Because I hinted about the work situation they said she needed a type d then. Load of rubbish so I went with the spanish instead. Say you're going on holiday. Tick the relevant box .... Tourist. Go. Enter that country. Fly to malta. Live there. If you want a job sorting (assuming you have a celta or tefl cert), pm me your email address and send me your cv. I'll put you in touch with someone I know is recruiting. Sorted.

If anyone asks, you're checking out different places whilst on holiday with a view of possibly staying if you like it. Tbh I doubt anyone will even ask or care ;-)

Once you're on the island and apply for residency it doesn't matter if your Schengen has expired or not. My residency application has just been approved after applying 18 days ago although still waiting on the all important mrs' though.

Ps there are loads of teaching opportunities at the moment. Literally thousands from around Europe arrive every week purely to learn (in language schools), practise and use their English on an island in the sun :-)

Hi,

in the end when you are here in Malta you register for e-residency yourself and you apply for residency for your non-EU wife ( she cannot apply herself). She will always depend on your status.

I cannot see any difference in what visa she gets to come to Malta with you. She will be travelling with you. But where is the problem with which visa she gets ? I would go with the Austrians or do you inend to fight on your rights?

Cheers
Ricky

Ricky.....

It's a good point you make and something I'm leaning towards.

Play the Austrian's game and give them what they want. They want health insurance and hotel bookings for length of Schengen visa. Now, I was under the impression that she'd have to leave if residency wasn't sorted before it expired but from Matthew's experience, it would seem that isn't the case.

However, it does seem that it really doesn't matter which country you get the Schengen from as there's little control between member states.

Give them what they want !

You will need health insurance anyway for residency and one you register and apply for residency you just have to stay put in Malta. But it doesn't usually take that long and they give you a form that you have applied. So even if the visa expires it is still ok .

Cheers
Ricky

just to say they are now asking for comprehensive medical insurance for residency when applying as self sufficient

The problem with the type d visa is that it ignores the fact that you're the spouse of an eu citizen and therefore you have to provide a lot more information, proof of accommodations, proof of work etc... I wouldn't go down that route personally.

Yes, the self-sufficiency route does require health care. I've been told by people on the island that as a UK citizen, I'd be able to obtain the Reciprocal Health Agreement (RHA) between Malta and the UK as would my wife and kids.

Matthew, yes the D visa is a longer visa for those who are studying or specific work purposes. I think the Austrians just want to put people off.

Geebee1978 wrote:

Yes, the self-sufficiency route does require health care. I've been told by people on the island that as a UK citizen, I'd be able to obtain the Reciprocal Health Agreement (RHA) between Malta and the UK as would my wife and kids.

Matthew, yes the D visa is a longer visa for those who are studying of specific work purposes. I think the Austrians just want to put people off.

Agreed.

I'd try to secure work if you can before you come. In terms of health cover, yes you're covered no problem but I'd get the European healthcare card ordered now if I were you just so you have it. What I did was simply got a letter from my employer confirming employment, went to the hospital with my pregnant wife with our passports and marriage cert and hey presto she was registered as well. You must have started work though. Just to clarify, we did have comprehensive insurance to cover a 2 week gap at the beginning although no one ever asked for a copy of the policy.

And just to reiterate, don't worry about the Schengen expiring during the application process. 1. It probably won't take that long 2. If it does take longer, the rules are as long as you've applied and it's pending it doesn't matter.

I recommend joining this facebook page.... Eu freedom of movement destination malta. See you there. Loads of real world help and advice.

Well, the Austrian embassy put doubts in my head but I guess the best thing is to stop fretting and get on with it.

It's all about a sensible balance between knowing my rights and playing the game a little....a bit of compromise between the two.

Thanks to all those who have commented; every comment has been noted and appreciated. I'll post updates when the time arrives.

robpw2 wrote:

if you were coming from another eu country then there would be no issue but because your not coming from the eu your wife will require the correct to enter malta

Hi Rob

Can you please quote the legislation relating to this?

Directive 2004/38/EC
Chapter II — Right of exit and entry
Article 5 — Right of entry
4. Where a Union citizen, or a family member who is not a national of a Member State, does not have the necessary travel documents or, if required, the necessary visas, the Member State concerned shall, before turning them back, give such persons every reasonable opportunity to obtain the necessary documents or have them brought to them within a reasonable period of time or to corroborate or prove by other means that they are covered by the right of free movement and residence.

So basically, if you could get to the land border of the Schengen Zone, then you could *possibly* enter the EU WITHOUT a VISA. Obviously this would require crossing extreme distances and probably dangerous countries!

The reason that a VISA is required, is that the AIRLINES will not allow a non-EU citizen to travel to Europe, as they could be fined heavily and forced to return the passenger at their own expense

Further reading here:

https://eumovement.wordpress.com/2010/0 … to-travel/

The C visa is correct for the spouse of a EU citizen, and irrespective of how many days it "states" on the document, enshrined in LAW is the fact the an EU citizen and his non-EU spouse can stay in any EU country for 90 days:

Full details below:

Who is covered by Directive 2004/38/EC?

Citizens of an EU or EEA member state who visit, live, study or work in a different member state
The EU citizen's direct family members, including their non-EU spouse and the spouse's direct family members (such as children)
Other family members who are “beneficiaries”, including common law partners, same sex partners, and dependent family members, members of the household, and sick family members
Family members (as outlined above), where the EU citizen has worked in another member state and now wishes to return to their “home” country to work [Singh]


What is covered?

No-cost, easy, fast issue of visas
Easy right to stay for up to 90 days if so desired.  EU citizens and their non-EU family can work if desired in this period, or play.
Easy right to stay longer if the EU citizen is working, is a student, or has medical insurance and is self sufficient
Permanent residence after 5 years
Right of facilitated entry if passports have been lost, or if a visa has not been obtained
Applications can only be turned down in three limited circumstances (public health, public policy, national security), or when a marriage is determined to be fraudulent.  Reasons for refusal must be spelled out in detail and there is a right of appeal.
EU citizens and their non-EU family members can not legally be treated differently than citizens of their EU host country
https://eumovement.wordpress.com/directive-200438ec/
Further reading here:

Please be careful rob when giving advice to people on these matters. You gave similar false information to me and if I didn't go ahead with what I knew was right, rather than listening to you, I'd still be stuck in Asia. It's better to not say anything at all unless you have real life experience or specific information to back up what you say. No disrespect meant bit this is peoples lives we are talking about. Cheers

Matthew thank you for your kind words but as I studied EU law as part of my degree the information I have provided is not misleading - there may be other ways to do things but advising someone they need the correct visa to enter Malta if they are entering outside the EU and are not an EU national is correct - what type of visa they need depends on the circumstances and may u also clarify that I am merely giving advice and until now have never clarified that I am an expert or I know more than others - as with all advice on the internet it is merely advice and you have to do your own research and fact finding too - what may work for you may work for others but it would be admiss of me to say it will work for everyone

Glad your sorted

I did find it rather misleading to be honest. I know you're trying to be helpful and thank you for that, however, I'm seeing a repeat of what you said to me previously but in this thread despite me educating you at the time to the contrary and it would have been good to have seen reference to that with this very similar situation. I've witnessed many many cases such as this, over the last 12 months, who have successfully entered the eu via a fairly simplistic route of applying for a type c (from outside the eu) with passports and marriage certificates. Over complicating matters could put people off applying or taking the wrong route. I hope you understand my rant isn't a personal dig - I know you're trying to help.