Ecuador is on the brink of decriminalizing the use of all drugs

Gardener,
Could you PM me in more detail about those bromide pills? My brother was in Desert Storm as a fighter pilot and has been afflicted with a series of elusive medical problems. He was the epitome of perfect health - sans drugs, alcohol, cigs; is  vegan, physically fit and faithfully exercises. He is now in his early 60s and experiencing health problems he never experienced before Desert Storm or the aftermath. He's no longer in the AF. Sorry. I can't determine how to PM an individual.
Thx, Regards,
PS

peripatetic_souI wrote:

I can't determine how to PM an individual.

To send a PM message...

Click on the name above the intended recipient's Expat.com icon, and then click on Send a Message.

cccmedia in Quito

jessekimmerling wrote:

Resolution 001-CONSEP-CO-2013 issued by the Ministry of Public Health and the Executive Secretariat of CONSEP now stipulates that the possession of quantities up to an established limit should not be assumed to be a crime, with the upper limit being considered the borderline between drug use and trafficking. "For the first time in this country, this resolution sets the thresholds that determine the quantity of various drugs in grams that anyone is allowed to possess or carry without arbitrarily being considered a criminal." [See the table prepared using figures from the study by Jorge Paladines, “The health response to the illicit use of drugs in Ecuador.” This study is part of the research by CEDD, “In Search of Rights: Drug Users and State Responses in Latin America.”]

Thresholds for the possession of illicit drugs in Ecuador

Marijuana: 10 grams

Cocaine Base Paste: 2 grams

Cocaine Hydrochloride: 1 gram

Heroín: 0.1 gram

MDA: 0.15 grams

MDMA: 0.015 grams

Amphetamines: 0.040 grams

source: http://undrugcontrol.info/es/informacio … 04-ecuador

Also from the same source: The growing of plants with psychoactive properties that are part of the control system is prohibited only if it is done for commercial purposes. As a result of this provision, cultivation for personal use has been decriminalised.

So one can grow Marijuana and cocaine for personal use.  That is surprising.

mugtech wrote:

jessekimmerling wrote:

Resolution 001-CONSEP-CO-2013 issued by the Ministry of Public Health and the Executive Secretariat of CONSEP now stipulates that the possession of quantities up to an established limit should not be assumed to be a crime, with the upper limit being considered the borderline between drug use and trafficking. "For the first time in this country, this resolution sets the thresholds that determine the quantity of various drugs in grams that anyone is allowed to possess or carry without arbitrarily being considered a criminal." [See the table prepared using figures from the study by Jorge Paladines, “The health response to the illicit use of drugs in Ecuador.” This study is part of the research by CEDD, “In Search of Rights: Drug Users and State Responses in Latin America.”]

Thresholds for the possession of illicit drugs in Ecuador

Marijuana: 10 grams

Cocaine Base Paste: 2 grams

Cocaine Hydrochloride: 1 gram

Heroín: 0.1 gram

MDA: 0.15 grams

MDMA: 0.015 grams

Amphetamines: 0.040 grams

source: http://undrugcontrol.info/es/informacio … 04-ecuador

Also from the same source: The growing of plants with psychoactive properties that are part of the control system is prohibited only if it is done for commercial purposes. As a result of this provision, cultivation for personal use has been decriminalised.

So one can grow Marijuana and cocaine for personal use.  That is surprising.

It's surprising, confusing, and there are contradictions within the law, as usual. There was also a side note about many judges ignoring the relaxed drug laws and continuing to convict people for possession of small amounts of drugs. This is all part of the existing laws, voted on in 2013 and ratified in 2014. These are not the new changes to the laws debated earlier this year but not yet ratified.

Straight from the National Institute of Health. Starting from number 6 down is where the information is fascinating. Maybe not that surprising for some, but the fact the government is now publishing it is an outstanding step in the right direction (in my opinion).

http://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/trea … /#link/_15

j600rr wrote:

Straight from the National Institute of Health. Starting from number 6 down is where the information is fascinating....
the fact the government is now publishing it is an outstanding step in the right direction.

http://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/trea … /#link/_15

Based on this government document, casual use of marijuana is benign compared to cigarette smoking.

So how did marijuana become illegal in the first place?

That early 20th century history is documented at the Drug Warrant website.

It is a tale with two key players -- Harry Anslinger, the USA's first drug czar at the Bureau of Narcotics, who wanted to criminalize marijuana as a way to consolidate more power under his control ... and the Mexico-hating publisher William Randolph Hearst who never let the truth get in the way of his pet causes.

The details are at www.drugwarrant.com/articles/why-is-marijuana-illegal/
or google drugwarrant.com why is marijuana illegal

cccmedia in Quito

cccmedia wrote:

j600rr wrote:

Straight from the National Institute of Health. Starting from number 6 down is where the information is fascinating....
the fact the government is now publishing it is an outstanding step in the right direction.

http://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/trea … /#link/_15

Based on this government document, casual use of marijuana is benign compared to cigarette smoking.

So how did marijuana become illegal in the first place?

That early 20th century history is documented at the Drug Warrant website.

It is a tale with two key players -- Harry Anslinger, the USA's first drug czar at the Bureau of Narcotics, who wanted to criminalize marijuana as a way to consolidate more power under his control ... and the Mexico-hating publisher William Randolph Hearst who never let the truth get in the way of his pet causes.

The details are at www.drugwarrant.com/articles/why-is-marijuana-illegal/
or google drugwarrant.com why is marijuana illegal

cccmedia in Quito

Thanks for the link to that website ccc. Great find.

j600rr: Thanks for the link to the gov's website on marijuana usage in treating cancer. Much info of use.

I couldn't help but laughing at this segment, however:

Stimulating appetite

    Many animal studies have shown that delta-9-THC and other cannabinoids stimulate appetite and can increase food intake.

I hope they didn't spend a lot of money on those studies.

BobH wrote:

j600rr: Thanks for the link to the gov's website on marijuana usage in treating cancer. Much info of use.

I couldn't help but laughing at this segment, however:

Stimulating appetite

    Many animal studies have shown that delta-9-THC and other cannabinoids stimulate appetite and can increase food intake.

I hope they didn't spend a lot of money on those studies.

Anytime Bob. Hope all is going well for you.

BobH wrote:

j600rr: Thanks for the link to the gov's website on marijuana usage in treating cancer. Much info of use.

I couldn't help but laughing at this segment, however:

Stimulating appetite

    Many animal studies have shown that delta-9-THC and other cannabinoids stimulate appetite and can increase food intake.

I hope they didn't spend a lot of money on those studies.

This is especially important for HIV patients, many of which literally waste away.

MIXED MESSAGES ??

I came across this today,

The National Council of Narcotic and Psychotropic Substances, Consep will assess adjustment of drug use table
Publicado el 08 Sep 2015Por : Mercedes Cabrera

The Government will strengthen its policy of “zero tolerance” to drugs and requires the Assembly to quickly approve a new institutional framework that is linked directly to the Presidency and thus be able to toughen penalties against micro drug trafficking.

For that the Assembly must approve the Drug Prevention Act, which replaces the existing Law of Narcotics and Psychotropic Substances, and that is pending for second debate since April of this year when the first was held.

This bill makes the current National Council of Narcotic and Psychotropic Substances (CONSEP) in a technical secretariat that is no longer attached to the Attorney General, but directly to the Presidency of the Republic. It also creates an Interinstitutional Committee chaired by the president.

In the Organic Integral Criminal Code (COIP for its Spanish acronym), the punishment for illegal traffic is four scales: the minimum is of two to six months, the median is one to three years, the high is five to seven years and the large-scale is ten to thirteen years. In the Consep table, for example heroin minimum scale ranges from zero to 1 gram, median from 1 to 5 grams, the high from 5 to 20 and the largest 20 up.

Source: http://www.eluniverso.com/noticias/2015 … ndo-debate


They shout "Zero Tolerance", yet make more drugs legal ?? Interesting.

This is equally of interest,

Sale of drugs to young people concerns the Government
Publicado el 08 Sep 2015Por : Mercedes Cabrera
El Comercio

According to official data, between January and June this year in the country 48.5 tons of drugs of all kinds have been seized. Of that total, 7.9 were intended for minor sale. Two days ago, the government announced “zero tolerance” for possession of heroin and demanded tougher sentences for micro dealers.

In the IV National Study on drug consumption among the general population (a document of 79 pages), it is said that heroin is more accessible than cocaine base, which is the most common in the country. That was said by the 15.9% of the 5.6 million survey respondents nationwide.

Hence the IV Study shows that 79.6% of people surveyed in 53 cities see as “high risk” the frequent use of heroin. According to that document, people see higher risk in the use of marijuana, ecstasy, cocaine base.

Therefore, the authorities noted that one of the priorities is to counter microtrafficking and promoted, for example, campaigns and I live my preventive school, you decide. The Interior Ministry said that this has been one of the programs “that has given better results” in the fight against minor drug sales.

At the start of this school year in the Sierra and Amazon, the police monitored the exterior of the schools, the idea is to prevent that criminal networks approach the kids to sell alkaloids. Hence, initially security cameras were placed in schools that have more than 1000 students.

Source: http://www.elcomercio.com/actualidad/ba … uador.html

If there is so much concern is over "Micro Trafficking", would it not be counterproductive to legalize small quantities of more drugs !?

It's sounds like they are backtracking on their decision to legalize possession (not sale, which has always been illegal) of very small amounts of heroin. Not sure how this might affect other drugs, but it seams perfectly reasonable to continue to be tough on heroin while relaxing policies on less destructive drugs.

JK,

I agree, it almost seems like they are making changes without thinking it through. Only to come back and modify the original with exception?

Not to mention the costs to the people from all the various groups, conducting research, interviews etc. Only to re visit the issue and repeat step 1 all over again.

Seems wasteful, but most governments have been proven to be very good at that.

GMC(SW) wrote:

...Seems wasteful, but most governments have been proven to be very good at that.

That's all governments everywhere. It's the nature of the beast... Especially 3rd world governments. Lots of trial and error... more error... a little more error. Then they get it right... and just then, the government changes and they start all over.

Thank you for posting the link to this interesting, informative, and thoughtful article.

Kind regards,

Scary clip, but not surprising to anyone who is following the subject.  The really, really scary thing is big pharma is targeting young kids, and no one is saying a thing. By the way, who is one of the biggest special interest groups that spends the most money trying to keep marijauna illegal? Yep, big pharma, and also the alcohol industry.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJW1A-tja7U

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3M1QPoeNMU

A really well done documentary. It's pretty long. Almost 3 hours. Isn't pro or anti drug. Really goes into the history of different drugs, and why they were made illegal in the first place. Very objective documentary in my opinion.

Ecuador is free of illicit drug cultivation, according to the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime.

The agency credits the EC Interior Ministry and the army for eradicating 752,000 coca plants and 6.7 million poppy plants in the past ten years.

The U.N. statement was reported by China's official Xinhua news agency and picked up this weekend by Cuenca Highlife's website.

cccmedia in Quito

cccmedia wrote:

Ecuador is free of illicit drug cultivation, according to the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime.

The agency credits the EC Interior Ministry and the army for eradicating 752,000 coca plants and 6.7 million poppy plants in the past ten years.

The U.N. statement was reported by China's official Xinhua news agency and picked up this weekend by Cuenca Highlife's website.

cccmedia in Quito

How many pot plants?

cccmedia wrote:

Ecuador is free of illicit drug cultivation, according to the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime.

The agency credits the EC Interior Ministry and the army for eradicating 752,000 coca plants and 6.7 million poppy plants in the past ten years.

The U.N. statement was reported by China's official Xinhua news agency and picked up this weekend by Cuenca Highlife's website.

cccmedia in Quito

The above sounds great, but kind of brings up that saying, "the law of unintended consequences."

http://www.countthecosts.org/sites/defa … iefing.pdf

Look to pharmaceutical company's for the huge increase of heroin use in the US.  Normal average people living in large and small city's in US are Addicted legally when given prescription drugs like Oxi.  They get addicted to their expensive prescription & later find they can no longer afford the prescriptions.  The end result is to go to the use of heroin that is sheep and now easily found any ware in the US.  There was a time when heroin was a drug found and used almost exclusively by the bottom of the bottom of drug addicts in large city's.  Sadly that is no longer the truth.
" Normal Americans" of ALL ages in all areas of the US are now addicted to heroin.  What sense is it to go after pot heads and ignore the pharmaceutical company's that even con the Dr.s in to thinking the legal pharmaceutical drugs were not harmful/addictive to the patients.  It is a disgrace and a problem of huge proportion & one that is not being looked at by any of the powers that may.  As far as I am concerned the pharmaceutical and alcohol industry's are the biggest polluters & destroyers of humanity/ society.  They are well funded and thus far untouchable.  As long as the Us & Europe continue drug consumption/demands, the world will produce, it is that simple.  Going after the little guy/addict or pot heads is non productive when pharmaceuticals are legally addicting our people and continue to do it without consequences.  In my opinion of course.

MGLuke wrote:

Look to pharmaceutical company's for the huge increase of heroin use in the US.  Normal average people living in large and small city's in US are Addicted legally when given prescription drugs like Oxi.  They get addicted to their expensive prescription & later find they can no longer afford the prescriptions.  The end result is to go to the use of heroin that is sheep and now easily found any ware in the US.  There was a time when heroin was a drug found and used almost exclusively by the bottom of the bottom of drug addicts in large city's.  Sadly that is no longer the truth.
" Normal Americans" of ALL ages in all areas of the US are now addicted to heroin.  What sense is it to go after pot heads and ignore the pharmaceutical company's that even con the Dr.s in to thinking the legal pharmaceutical drugs were not harmful/addictive to the patients.  It is a disgrace and a problem of huge proportion & one that is not being looked at by any of the powers that may.  As far as I am concerned the pharmaceutical and alcohol industry's are the biggest polluters & destroyers of humanity/ society.  They are well funded and thus far untouchable.

Oxi got Rush Limbaugh,  so you know it even happens to the "moral majority "

I do not consider Rush Linbough "normal" any thing.  I am talking about people like you and me.  Average citizens with actual pain that go to their Dr for help and later find their self's addicted to their medication.  Those are the New heroin addicts.  That is well documented and agreed by many Dr's.  Quite sad and not funny @ all.

MGLuke wrote:

I do not consider Rush Linbough "normal" any thing.  I am talking about people like you and me.  Average citizens with actual pain that go to their Dr for help and later find their self's addicted to their medication.  Those are the New heroin addicts.  That is well documented and agreed by many Dr's.  Quite sad and not funny @ all.

I am agreeing with you, if a right wing blowhard like Rush could get addicted, then anyone could.  He was prescribed them by a reputable doctor for pain

.You are right that is a definite way to look at it.  It is just hard for me to see him as "normal" LOL.
I am not sure there has been much talk here in EC of this new heroin epidemic in US.  Finally the medical community is actively talking about it in the US.  Dr's are getting really strict on prescribing pain meds but still many are not.  But for all the ones that got addicted is not much help.  I literally hate pharmaceutical company's.  They of course are needed but their power and miss use of information & cost has gotten way out of hands.  Give you an example.  Recently a friend of mine's blood pressure got to 207/150.  He was on 3 different BP meds from the US.  He went to a Dr. here in Cuenca that took him off all meds and put him on just one pill once per day.  He said that all 3 of the pills he was taking were essentially the same & that he was intoxicated with so much meds.  The meds he tried here, he bought were 5 pills for .80.  You don't want to ask what the price for the med is US was. The 3 RX are over $300 per month.  Now he is taking this new BP pill  1-daily and the BP is consistently @150/90 not bad for a guy that is 66 yrs old and just 5 days a go was at over 200 BP.  The drug company's are making serious $ on meds in the US.  By the way the DR here gave him his personal cell phone to call any time day /night week end if BP got high again.  Try getting a Dr. cell phone # in the US.  Now almost all Dr.s calls are answered by a answering service that identifies the Dr. name with an automatic message that says  "If this is an emergency, Please Hang Up and Call 911".  Then you wait for ever on the phone to get the receptionist that almost never lets you talk to the DR.  You just relay messages back and forth.  PS. I made my living for many yrs in the medical research end of medicine & know the need for research, the cost & the value of DR's and meds, but things are way way out of hands.  Serious money is being made.

Professionally reducing Expats' meds intake is a great service.

Please provide contact information about that doctor in Cuenca who did this.

cccmedia in Quito

mugtech wrote:

Oxi got Rush Limbaugh,  so you know it even happens to the "moral majority "

That one made me laugh Mugs

Had the lucky fortune to be growing up during the time the "moral majority" was becoming a major influence on policy, and everyday life.

Kind of prefer to call them the self righteous hypocrites, and not the moral majority. Thank goodness the dark ages of that quackery is coming to an end. Sorry to offend some, but yes I consider people who make decisions, and policies on absolutely no facts, or realities quack jobs.

I can speak to this issue,

The prescription drug problem in the U.S. is at epidemic levels, as many doctors are content to "Treat the symptom, and not the cure". The current medical insurance situation is not helping either. Several providers have recently said they cannot sustain their losses and will be pulling out.... This does not bode well for "Obama Care", which is no shock.

As far as heroin use goes it has risen all over planet, even Iran has a major problem with it. The simple fact is, too much money is being made in the industry to change it.

As for me, I had a service related accident while on active duty. Even though I had four herniated disks cervical spondelosis, degenerative disks etc. the Military was adamant that I was not a candidate for surgery. It was simple, it all came down to money. As I could no longer perform in the field, and no longer maintain my clearance, due to the plethora of medications I had but one option. To retire,

The V.A. was a circus, and I feel for all who rely on them. After two trips I swore I would never go again. I didn't care about the free this or that, I did not want money, I wanted, as close to normal life as possible. It took ten years to find a doctor who not only agreed, I needed surgery but was shocked that I had not had it done years before, when there was less damage.

Prior to surgery I was on 14 medications, some narcotics. Many of the rest were to correct the affects of the ones that do harm, it was insane.. One of the worst was the Methadone. I had been on it for over 10 years and the doctor had no issue with my being on it for the duration of my life... I was not so excited as I did not want to be a slave to the medication.

After surgery I was able to quit everything on my own, except that damn Methadone. I spent months reducing the level but after a point the withdrawls were to much to take. If you have never had drug withdrawls, you are lucky. I can tell you it is pure hell. The doctors told me there was nothing else they could do....  My body was, and would remain toxic with it.

The only option was a medical detox, which insurance of course will not cover. It was only $12,000.00, and could kill you. Ecuador does not have or use Methadone. After research with several doctors, they were confident they could help me, I was not so sure after my experiences. I can say, to my surprise after four months I was no longer on Methadone. Yes, it was a trade for another, but less toxic and less addictive. I currently use a very low dosage, and have had "No" withdrawl symptoms. 

Medication prices can be cheaper here, depending on what you need. The problem is availability. Most medications here are imported from outside, and due to the import changes, this is becoming a serious problem. Many doctors cannot even prescribe narcotics, and the ones who can are very regulated. We have been lucky as the owner of the pharmacy we use, has good connections and gets things in volume. He gets, and stocks things that Fybeca does not or cannot get.     

Luckily, for my case things are, different here. It is truly 6 of one and half a dozen of the other, no matter where you go. The doctors I saw are; Dr. Xavier Ramos Flores and Dr. Esteban Reyes Rodriguez, they are both at the Hospital Metropolitano.

Opiate addiction has the worst withdrawal and is the hardest to beat, so no one should expect the situation is going to improve any time soon.  The money involved with moving heroin plus the fact that it is cheaper than the pills and a source of legal pain killers also means the profit motive is still strong.

mugtech wrote:

Opiate addiction has the worst withdrawal and is the hardest to beat, so no one should expect the situation is going to improve any time soon.  The money involved with moving heroin plus the fact that it is cheaper than the pills and a source of legal pain killers also means the profit motive is still strong.

Very true. Fortunately (or unfortunately) depending on your views, and bear in mind certainly more studies need to be done, but drugs like ayahuasca, dmt, and iboga have shown great promis/results as a means to treat several addictions, including opiod, and alcohol addictions. They have also shown great promise/results for people with PTSD.

In point of fact, the whole issue of psychedelics is being looked at much closer, and government is actually giving permission for several researchers to continue with studies on different psychedelics in regards to their benefits in treating certain illnesses, and addictions.

Thank you for your honesty and your share.  Many people do not realize the hell opiate withdrawals cause in a persons life or the fact that the withdrawals can actually kill you. Good insight.  I do not expect a solution any time soon.

MGLuke wrote:

Thank you for your honesty and your share.  Many people do not realize the hell opiate withdrawals cause in a persons life or the fact that the withdrawals can actually kill you. Good insight.  I do not expect a solution any time soon.

Not exactly a solution, but a potentially promising alternative for opiod replacing pain medications.

http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shot … -is-tricky

Only my opionion/belief, but think we're at the beginning stages of realizing just how many potential medications are available from nature, and that don't have nearly as many addictive qualities as what is currently being pushed by pharmaceutical companies. Actually, isn't like many people haven't been saying that for years. Is probably more accurate to say we are actually starting to explore this area on a larger scale.

I recently watched a special that was on herbal drugs, and replacing the various manufactured cocktails in use now. They said there are now very few, scientists who are looking for alternatives to this problem.

I don't know what the past numbers have been but fewer, cannot be better. People have used various remedies since the start. So there must be alternatives out there. The question as always comes back to, "Cost". It would require more money to seek out and refine various plants etc.

I think it could be done, but I also think, big pharm. companies want the business as usual. 2016 will be a big year for many issues. Obama care is in it's death throws, which will affect every aspect of the healthcare industry. Things are not going well, and the outlook is bleak at best.

Now more than ever, the saying, "Things are tough all over" rings loud and true...

GMC(SW) wrote:

I recently watched a special that was on herbal drugs, and replacing the various manufactured cocktails in use now. They said there are now very few, scientists who are looking for alternatives to this problem.

I don't know what the past numbers have been but fewer, cannot be better. People have used various remedies since the start. So there must be alternatives out there. The question as always comes back to, "Cost". It would require more money to seek out and refine various plants etc.

I think it could be done, but I also think, big pharm. companies want the business as usual. 2016 will be a big year for many issues. Obama care is in it's death throws, which will affect every aspect of the healthcare industry. Things are not going well, and the outlook is bleak at best.

Now more than ever, the saying, "Things are tough all over" rings loud and true...

Agree with part of your analysis GMC, but think the real problem isn't necessarily that looking at things from a different angle is outrageously expensive, but rather the insane profit margin for big pharma isn't there, and they don't have a monopoly on that market. Let's also point out the fact that some of the alternative/holistic methods being pushed are essentially nothing more than hocus pocus (but doesn't mean there aren't legitimate areas of research.)

In this data driven society if we break down big pharma we will see that they are making record profits, the largest 7 or 8 companies spend 3x as much on marketing as research. Big pharma actually spends much less on research and development then they want the public to believe. Plus a large part of their research comes from tax payer funded government research. So we fund them with our tax dollars, but if we feel it's our right to recomend any price controls we're called socialists. Many are paying little to no corporate taxes, and instead of investing that money on research, they are putting it into marketing, and buying stock(artificially inflating their stock prices.)

Am only saying (opinion/belief) that this idea of heading a different direction isn't economically viable is nothing more than propoganda from big pharma. There is plenty of profit to be made. It's just not outrageous raping the public profit, which is what big pharma wants.

I agree, it is too easy to ignore the easy profits, so why would they spend more on research if they don't want to. That industry really needs more and better controls. The outrageous prices for some medications is ridiculous.

They of course, always have to "Claim" the price is driven by research, but we all know that is not true. When you think  about it, you find there are very few people you may know who are not, on some medication. As people get older they seem to add on the meds. It seems America is willingly being drugged.

I have learned to question everything, a doctor says or does. Not that I don't trust them, but, doctors make mistakes also, and with the shear number of medications out there, there is no way a single doctor can know what they all do or will do in the future.

In the end, I really don't care if they are offended or not, it's my life. I do not subscribe to blind faith of anything. There have been several doctors who were surprised and impressed by my questions and general knowledge of various things medical.

Can anyone give us an update concerning the laws and the reality of the laws concerning various substances and their decriminalization?  Amounts allowed for Marijuana and cocaine would be of greatest interest, hard to imagine any legal path to opiates